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Identifying Ammo Box Caches


SCOTUS

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I've come across several ammo box caches recently that have no markings on the outside to indicate they are a geocache. Obviously these caches have been hidden from public view, but it worries me that there are no markings on the outside to indicate that they are a cache.

 

In the almost paranoid security situation we find ourselves in today, I wanted to get people's thoughts on how they identify their ammo box caches as caches. When we had an ammobox cache, we made a large sign with the Geocaching logo and placed it on the outside of the cache. I've seen the "Official Geocache" stickers, and I'm interested in other ways people identify ammo box caches.

 

I don't know if I'm too sensitive to these issues, but I wanted to throw this topic out there and get thoughts from the community.

 

Thanks, SCOTUS

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Its a very good idea to mark ammo boxes and all geocaches. I've found many unmarked ammo boxes and even worse, people often leave the military markings on them. I've found dozens of these caches, often in high traffic areas. What is a non geocacher to think when he uncovers a box that says ".50 cal tracer" or other military markings. Its begging for the bomb squad to be called in.

 

It takes a few minutes to spraypaint over the markings or sand them off and another minute to label the box as a geocache. 3-4 minutes may save you hours in court and hundreds of dollars in fines.

Edited by briansnat
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Yup, get rid of those original markings and at the least label it something like "Official Geocache" with the website on it.

 

A can of flat black paint at Lowes is less than $1 and will do several dozen cans.

 

I also make it a point to peel the labels off decon boxes and since the lid has the hazardous materials warning molded into it that gets conevered with glue/epoxy and camo to make sure nobody picks that up and gets worried.

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We felt strongly enough about marking the outside of our containers that we developed the stencils you see in two of the above pictures. The present ones are made of mylar and last through a lot of markings.

 

Not only do we mark the outside of the container with the cache name, but we also leave contact information including phone number.

 

We do have a few out that don't have these markings, but those were placed before the stencil was developed or we are relying heavily on camo jobs.

 

We feel that marking the outside of the container, having valid contact information, and a stash sheet is important for accidental findings of all sorts.

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Yup, you won't find an ammo can or decon by me that isn't labeled. I normally cover my ammo cans with camo tape, one I didn't but I did mark on all sides, even the bottom geocache and covered the military markings.

 

Someone mentioned peeling the stickers off Decons, I've done that too if I don't cover it with camo tape. I then use a marker pen to write offical geocache over the molded warning on the top.

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I carry a can of spray paint with me when caching to paint over the markings on any ammo cans that still have them, although I may switch to carrying GC.com stickers.

I'm curious if other folks think it kosher to spraypaint someone else's cache even with the military markings.

I don't, it would make me considerably less than happy if someone took it upon themselves to tamper with my container in that manner. Yes sir, I believe that cacher and myself would have a conversation they would enjoy considerably less than they would like, to put it politely. :(

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I have a few cans but haven't been able to place them as caches yet, I just hate to let them go.

When I finally do place them though they'll have a new camo paint job plus an official sticker, bought an assortment awhile back.

My Lock&Lock I used camo tape for now, not sure how long it will survive here, regular duct tape only lasts a few months in the weather.

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I carry a can of spray paint with me when caching to paint over the markings on any ammo cans that still have them, although I may switch to carrying GC.com stickers.

I'm curious if other folks think it kosher to spraypaint someone else's cache even with the military markings.

I don't, it would make me considerably less than happy if someone took it upon themselves to tamper with my container in that manner. Yes sir, I believe that cacher and myself would have a conversation they would enjoy considerably less than they would like, to put it politely. :(

 

I agree except I don't like verbal arguments. I'd just grab a can of day glow orange pant, find one of their caches and return the favor. :D

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I agree except I don't like verbal arguments. I'd just grab a can of day glow orange pant, find one of their caches and return the favor. :(

That's real mature. Frankly I think any cacher putting an ammunition container out in the wild with military markings on it is being irresponsible, especially around an urban environment, and is potentially endangering the game. But I obviously appear to be in the minority with my opinion and if that's the case, especially as a relatively newcomer to the game, I'll abide by the majority.

Edited by LetterDude
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I carry a can of spray paint with me when caching to paint over the markings on any ammo cans that still have them, although I may switch to carrying GC.com stickers.

I'm curious if other folks think it kosher to spraypaint someone else's cache even with the military markings.

I don't, it would make me considerably less than happy if someone took it upon themselves to tamper with my container in that manner. Yes sir, I believe that cacher and myself would have a conversation they would enjoy considerably less than they would like, to put it politely. :(

 

I agree except I don't like verbal arguments. I'd just grab a can of day glow orange pant, find one of their caches and return the favor. :D

 

Agreed. Altering someone elses cache = very bad. Privately emailing them your concern and asking permission to alter their cache before doing so and then only doing so once permission is granted = the right thing to do.

 

Also, for anyone interest, I've found that Krylon spray paint #8143 Olive Drab is the closest match the Ammo Can's original color.

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We felt strongly enough about marking the outside of our containers that we developed the stencils you see in two of the above pictures. The present ones are made of mylar and last through a lot of markings.

 

Not only do we mark the outside of the container with the cache name, but we also leave contact information including phone number.

 

We do have a few out that don't have these markings, but those were placed before the stencil was developed or we are relying heavily on camo jobs.

 

We feel that marking the outside of the container, having valid contact information, and a stash sheet is important for accidental findings of all sorts.

 

I bought a stencil from you a while ago and I've use it on every cache I have placed or helped to place since! I put my cell phone number on the cache containers but I haven't had a single caller yet. Everyone seems to prefer to send email.

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I prefer to paint a camo pattern on my cans so they are more difficult to find. (Right this minute, I can't remember if the extra large can I used for 'Caesar's Library' still has military-speak, or not.) I considered stenciling them, but ended up not doing it. They are well away from foot traffic and quite unlikely to be found by anyone.

26a30e43-0ca7-44d7-b3b9-9e40fdd5fc58.jpg

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I agree except I don't like verbal arguments. I'd just grab a can of day glow orange pant, find one of their caches and return the favor. <_<

That's real mature. Frankly I think any cacher putting an ammunition container out in the wild with military markings on it is being irresponsible, especially around an urban environment, and is potentially endangering the game. But I obviously appear to be in the minority with my opinion and if that's the case, especially as a relatively newcomer to the game, I'll abide by the majority.

 

The point is that ammo can is the personal property of the hider, painting it without permission is, in my view, no different than painting someone elses mailbox because you don't like the color.

Contacting the cache owner should always be the first step, they may not realize the potential problem and will not only paint that cache but any others they have, now and future. If they don't, you did all you should do, maybe they just like keeping it original.

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I prefer to paint a camo pattern on my cans so they are more difficult to find. (Right this minute, I can't remember if the extra large can I used for 'Caesar's Library' still has military-speak, or not.) I considered stenciling them, but ended up not doing it. They are well away from foot traffic and quite unlikely to be found by anyone.

26a30e43-0ca7-44d7-b3b9-9e40fdd5fc58.jpg

 

Nice pattern, do you use real leaves as the pattern?

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I found an ammo box over the weekend that had no markings. It is hidden from public view, but there is a pretty good chance of someone stumbling across it. I definitely would mark all caches so accident discoveries of the cache don't lead to front page articles in the local newspapers.

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I prefer to paint a camo pattern on my cans so they are more difficult to find. (Right this minute, I can't remember if the extra large can I used for 'Caesar's Library' still has military-speak, or not.) I considered stenciling them, but ended up not doing it. They are well away from foot traffic and quite unlikely to be found by anyone.

26a30e43-0ca7-44d7-b3b9-9e40fdd5fc58.jpg

 

Nice pattern, do you use real leaves as the pattern?

I did. They came from a burning bush hedge around our deck. (Don't mention it to my wife.)

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I agree except I don't like verbal arguments. I'd just grab a can of day glow orange pant, find one of their caches and return the favor. <_<

That's real mature. Frankly I think any cacher putting an ammunition container out in the wild with military markings on it is being irresponsible, especially around an urban environment, and is potentially endangering the game. But I obviously appear to be in the minority with my opinion and if that's the case, especially as a relatively newcomer to the game, I'll abide by the majority.

 

The point is that ammo can is the personal property of the hider, painting it without permission is, in my view, no different than painting someone elses mailbox because you don't like the color.

Contacting the cache owner should always be the first step, they may not realize the potential problem and will not only paint that cache but any others they have, now and future. If they don't, you did all you should do, maybe they just like keeping it original.

 

I personally wouldn't mind if someone painted one of my caches to cover up the millitary markings on the side (shouldn't be a problem, I already did that myself). I would probably thank them for being thoughtful and thinking about that. I agree that putting an unmarked, millitary looking container in the middle of a public park is irresponsible and totally dumb!!! It gives all geocachers a bad name when things like that happen.

I try to use containers that wouldn't be a problem so I don't even need to worry about this. I know that ammo cans are wonderfull, but I would go with a Lock-n-Lock to prevent my cache getting blown up.

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I personally wouldn't mind if someone painted one of my caches to cover up the millitary markings on the side (shouldn't be a problem, I already did that myself). I would probably thank them for being thoughtful and thinking about that. I agree that putting an unmarked, millitary looking container in the middle of a public park is irresponsible and totally dumb!!! It gives all geocachers a bad name when things like that happen.

I try to use containers that wouldn't be a problem so I don't even need to worry about this. I know that ammo cans are wonderfull, but I would go with a Lock-n-Lock to prevent my cache getting blown up.

Pssst.

 

Lock-n-Locks can get 'blown up' also.

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I miss the days when hiding a cache ment putting it far enough off the trail that only someone with the coordinates and GPS are likely to find it.

 

amen! thats right! to me that is the whole point of geocaching, i am not complaining but i cant beleive people actually enjoy looking for a cache in a wal-mart parking lot or a drug store shrub.

 

off the beaten path is what the word geocaching means to me, so usually those are the only caches i hunt.

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I miss the days when hiding a cache ment putting it far enough off the trail that only someone with the coordinates and GPS are likely to find it.
amen! thats right! to me that is the whole point of geocaching, i am not complaining but i cant beleive people actually enjoy looking for a cache in a wal-mart parking lot or a drug store shrub.

 

off the beaten path is what the word geocaching means to me, so usually those are the only caches i hunt.

When I started caching, I had to walk 10 miles in bare feet in a snowstorm, uphill both ways, to find a cache. Those were the days. Well, not really. :shocked:

 

Seriously, I started caching in mid-2001. About the time I started, I began coming to the forums to learn more about the game. Caches being muggled was a popular topic, even then (although it wasn't called that). In fact, the first several caches that I found (in my local area and others) were very close to a trail, less than an 1/8 mile from parking. It's true that I didn't find a truly urban cache until late in 2001. I assume that many existed, however.

Edited by sbell111
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When I started caching, I had to walk 10 miles in bare feet in a snowstorm, uphill both ways, to find a cache. Those were the days. Well, not really. :shocked:

 

I started caching in Nagasaki in 1945, and I routinely had to clear ashy fallout off of the underbrush to find the cache. And then, when I got home every evening, my father would chop me up and bury me in a shoebox in the backyard.

 

Top that.

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I like the stencil, but wouldn't it make more sense to say "See Geocaching.com for Details" as opposed to "See Inside for Details"?

 

Maybe it's just me being paranoid, since I read one as an outside source of information and the other as "hey, open up this suspicious ammo box to find out what it is!"

 

I'm probably just overthinking it, but I spray paint it and then just buy one of these for a whopping $2 and slap it on the side.

Edited by ThePropers
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I like the stencil, but wouldn't it make more sense to say "See Geocaching.com for Details" as opposed to "See Inside for Details"?

 

Well, that's what it said originally, but three things occurred to me.

 

One was there are other sites out there that list geocaches and somebody might want to refer folks to those or even a personal site.

 

Second, I was playing the odds on few folks observing this would have access to the internet. The stash note is in the cache and that's what I figure it's there for, to explain geocaching.

 

Three, with the contact information on the outside there is no reason to visit a website. Contacting the placers, who are those responsible for putting it there, would be a better choice.

 

That's why it says what it says. Hope this helps.

 

Not to disparage the decals, but we feel the stencils are superior, especially if you're painting the container anyway. The decals I've seen have a sheen to them and only come in green and black. With the stencils you use whatever paint that works for your location. Plus, the mylar stencils will stencil a lot of containers. Each decal is used on only one container.

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Yup, you won't find an ammo can or decon by me that isn't labeled. I normally cover my ammo cans with camo tape, one I didn't but I did mark on all sides, even the bottom geocache and covered the military markings.

 

Someone mentioned peeling the stickers off Decons, I've done that too if I don't cover it with camo tape. I then use a marker pen to write offical geocache over the molded warning on the top.

 

I've had a terrible time removing the stickers from decon containers but I always spray them with flat camo paint which covers the label fine and seems to wear quite well. On the lid I use the wire wheel on my sander to remove the raised lettering and then the camo paint covers the scuff marks.

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I carry a can of spray paint with me when caching to paint over the markings on any ammo cans that still have them, although I may switch to carrying GC.com stickers.

I'm curious if other folks think it kosher to spraypaint someone else's cache even with the military markings.

I don't, it would make me considerably less than happy if someone took it upon themselves to tamper with my container in that manner. Yes sir, I believe that cacher and myself would have a conversation they would enjoy considerably less than they would like, to put it politely. :shocked:

 

I think I would have to agree with you. If it isn't YOUR cache then don't modify it.

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When I started caching, I had to walk 10 miles in bare feet in a snowstorm, uphill both ways, to find a cache. Those were the days. Well, not really. :shocked:

 

I started caching in Nagasaki in 1945, and I routinely had to clear ashy fallout off of the underbrush to find the cache. And then, when I got home every evening, my father would chop me up and bury me in a shoebox in the backyard.

 

Top that.

 

Oh........ you were lucky............ we could only DREAM about having a shoebox to be buried in...........

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I've cached with a guy that would duct tape over any cache that showed the ammo caliber. Then he would include this in the posting. Seems fair to me.

 

What I found interesting is just how many caches we found that way.

 

Since the writing was in yellow and it listed an explosive, no I don't have a problem with the alteration.

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I carry a can of spray paint with me when caching to paint over the markings on any ammo cans that still have them, although I may switch to carrying GC.com stickers.

I'm curious if other folks think it kosher to spraypaint someone else's cache even with the military markings.

I don't, it would make me considerably less than happy if someone took it upon themselves to tamper with my container in that manner. Yes sir, I believe that cacher and myself would have a conversation they would enjoy considerably less than they would like, to put it politely. :shocked:

 

I think I would have to agree with you. If it isn't YOUR cache then don't modify it.

 

I think putting a large container out with military markings is irresponsible. Is that what all of you guys that are complaining about him painting over markings are doing? Are you out there putting military containers out in the woods with ".50 cal rounds" on the side? Well?

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Spray painting or putting tape or a decal or sticker on someone else's cache is not good form at all. If someone did that to one of mine, at the least I would email them to tell them why I am deleting their log, and at the most they would get a heated email from me discussing their probably parentage and upbringing, and then I would delete their log.

 

I have always put "Geocache" on my caches, albeit in small letters, from a home made stencil, and always in a color that is different from the color of the cache. On ammo boxes, I also put, on the bottom, contact info.

 

As far as muggles and 'back in the day'....my first cache I hid, in late 2001, was a quarter of a mile hike through an old abandonded railroad tunnel, then you had to climb half way up the fallen down retaining wall where it was hidden in a crevice. It was an ammo box, painted shades of gray to blend in with the rocks, with "geocache" in small letters on the bottom right hand sides, and with contact info on the bottom. It was muggled within a month.

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Spray painting or putting tape or a decal or sticker on someone else's cache is not good form at all. If someone did that to one of mine, at the least I would email them to tell them why I am deleting their log, and at the most they would get a heated email from me discussing their probably parentage and upbringing, and then I would delete their log.

Why would you delete the log? They found the cache. Do you also delete negative logs to all your caches?

 

[/quote}I have always put "Geocache" on my caches, albeit in small letters, from a home made stencil, and always in a color that is different from the color of the cache. On ammo boxes, I also put, on the bottom, contact info.

 

The issue I believe brought up here was not that somone said they painted a can, but that too many cans are being put out there without being modified from the original markings. The issue I believe is, should we condone cachers that buy an ammo can then place it without properly marking it as a geocache, but leave it looking like military ammo, or some other potential explosive. painting an ammo can to cover the military writting is only a start. if you only paint it, it is still just a big metal can stuck in an odd place that could warrant Government intervention (ie. Bomb squad) I think placing a Geocache sticker on an unmodified can would actually be a public service. The person who was painting over the military wording on others cans had his heart in the right place, just did not go far enough. I think I may order some extra stickers to fix those cans.

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I'm still refining my camouflage technique, but what it consists of now is taking some sort of plastic container (I've never used an ammo box) laying down a couple coats of black primer, then spraying it with a couple different coats of green or tan camo color, then spraying it with a clear shellac to seal everything. Once that's dry, I spray it with another coat of shellac and then toss dirt or sand on it, depending on the terrain I'm placing it. The dirt/sand sticks to the shellac and makes it incredibly difficult to see, even if it's just tucked under a bush. Oh, and I have a GC sticker on the exterior of every cache.

 

One of the primary giveaways I've found in hunting caches is spotting something with a straight line in an otherwise natural setting. I enjoy the challenge of hiding a larger size cache and figuring out ways to break up the linear outline of the container. If I can figure out how to do it, one of my next caches will have twigs or leaves shellacked to it.

Edited by thestray
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My cans have physical camo adhered (sp?) to their exteriors, so a decal and/or a stencil wouldn't work. I write "Official Geocache" on the handle and hope for the best. As a bare minimum, I feel ammo can military markings should be covered. That being said, I would find it intolerable if someone else painted one of my cans.

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One of the best and easiest thing that I saw was someone put camo netting over the cache. It was made almost like a bag and the can slid into it, and yes there was a label.

 

The only issue I have seen with the labels is that the moisture weakens the glue and they start to fall off. i think a stencil would be better. do they sell a stencil?

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When I started caching, I had to walk 10 miles in bare feet in a snowstorm, uphill both ways, to find a cache. Those were the days. Well, not really. <_<

 

I started caching in Nagasaki in 1945, and I routinely had to clear ashy fallout off of the underbrush to find the cache. And then, when I got home every evening, my father would chop me up and bury me in a shoebox in the backyard.

 

Top that.

At least you could afford shoes.

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I think putting a large container out with military markings is irresponsible. Is that what all of you guys that are complaining about him painting over markings are doing? Are you out there putting military containers out in the woods with ".50 cal rounds" on the side? Well?

Do me a big favor and reread your post.

 

You don't seriously think that anyone is going to find the box and say to themselves, 'Wow. Somebody left a big box of bullets here.' or find a decon container and say, 'Huh. Somebody is going to get contaminated without this.'

 

While I agree that its best to paint your ammo cans for a few reasons, 'fear' is not in the top two.

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... As far as muggles and 'back in the day'....my first cache I hid, in late 2001, was a quarter of a mile hike through an old abandonded railroad tunnel, then you had to climb half way up the fallen down retaining wall where it was hidden in a crevice. It was an ammo box, painted shades of gray to blend in with the rocks, with "geocache" in small letters on the bottom right hand sides, and with contact info on the bottom. It was muggled within a month.

I wanted badly to find that cache bad, but never got around to it.

 

edited for readability.

Edited by sbell111
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The issue I believe brought up here was not that somone said they painted a can, but that too many cans are being put out there without being modified from the original markings. The issue I believe is, should we condone cachers that buy an ammo can then place it without properly marking it as a geocache, but leave it looking like military ammo, or some other potential explosive. painting an ammo can to cover the military writting is only a start. if you only paint it, it is still just a big metal can stuck in an odd place that could warrant Government intervention (ie. Bomb squad) I think placing a Geocache sticker on an unmodified can would actually be a public service. The person who was painting over the military wording on others cans had his heart in the right place, just did not go far enough. I think I may order some extra stickers to fix those cans.

Wow. You are taking this stance farther than most would agree with, in my opinion.

  1. No one is going to find an unpainted can and believe that it is still full of ammo.
  2. In most cases, ammo cans are hidden well enough off path that they are unlikely to be muggled.
  3. If they are found by a non-player, it doesn't necessarily mean that the police would be called.
  4. I can't think of a single instance of a cache in the woods being destroyed by the bomb squad, even though I have found MANY ammo cans that were not repainted.
  5. If you stuck a sticker on my carefully camoed ammo can, we would have words and you wouldn't enjoy the conversation.

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One of the primary giveaways I've found in hunting caches is spotting something with a straight line in an otherwise natural setting. I enjoy the challenge of hiding a larger size cache and figuring out ways to break up the linear outline of the container. If I can figure out how to do it, one of my next caches will have twigs or leaves shellacked to it.

Take a look at the camoed can that I included in an earlier post. It's hard to tell from the picture, but what you do is use a three color camo job using materials natural to the setting to establish the pattern. Wehn painting the pattern, try to make your colors wrap around the edges of the can. The combination of the three colors, natural materails used as the stencil, and 'wraping' the color really does a good job of breaking up the lines and making the can a little more difficult to spot.

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I've come across several ammo box caches recently that have no markings on the outside to indicate they are a geocache. Obviously these caches have been hidden from public view, but it worries me that there are no markings on the outside to indicate that they are a cache.

 

In the almost paranoid security situation we find ourselves in today, I wanted to get people's thoughts on how they identify their ammo box caches as caches. When we had an ammobox cache, we made a large sign with the Geocaching logo and placed it on the outside of the cache. I've seen the "Official Geocache" stickers, and I'm interested in other ways people identify ammo box caches.

 

I don't know if I'm too sensitive to these issues, but I wanted to throw this topic out there and get thoughts from the community.

 

Thanks, SCOTUS

 

First, keep in mind that we shouldn't have to do jack to an ammo can. They are ok as they are.

However for all the reasons you mention it's a good idea to paint over the markings and/or identify the ammo can as a cache in some way.

 

The reason I say that we shouldn't need to do jack is simple. We cachers are not the problem, the ammo can isn't the problem, the paint on the ammo can isn't the problem, and geocaching isn't the problem. The problem is something else and it's important to keep that in mind. People often forget the real cause of their fear and start banning things that remind them of their real fear and then ban things that made them jump even though it's harmless.

 

PS.

 

If painting over an ammo can actually worked, you can bet that those bent on harm will learn this and do the same provided they are using ammo cans for their deeds. The real purpose of painting over an ammo can is so that someone who finds it on accident will be less afraid of it and perhaps not report it. As it happens that's exactly why someone trying to cause real harm would do the same. Some things just make people feel better but accomplish nothing real. That's not a wrong thing if you comply to be nice. It's a very wrong thing when it becomes law.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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... The issue I believe is, should we condone cachers that buy an ammo can then place it without properly marking it as a geocache, but leave it looking like military ammo, or some other potential explosive. painting an ammo can to cover the military writting is only a start. if you only paint it, it is still just a big metal can stuck in an odd place that could warrant Government intervention (ie. Bomb squad) I think placing a Geocache sticker on an unmodified can would actually be a public service. The person who was painting over the military wording on others cans had his heart in the right place, just did not go far enough. I think I may order some extra stickers to fix those cans.

 

Yes we should condone cachers placing caches even if they don't know how to paint over the markings. Anyone can call at any time and report anything at all as being somthing to investigate. If you read about all the crap that gets reported and gets a responce you would be less worred about some markings that the goverment can spraypaint over before they released the cans to the public at auction if they were truly worried about it.

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