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arpegio

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I am amused that the php-based forums are up, but the .ASP/.NET-based portion of the web site is down. This is why we don't deploy Microsoft-based high-traffic web applications. They just cannot handle the traffic unless you throw tons of money and resources into them. On the other hand, the unix-based php stuff like the forums truck along without a whole lot of problems under heavy load.

 

I hope if the people at Groundspeak opt to improve the web site, the first thing they do is dump the IIS-based .ASP stuff and move to a true mission-critical system that's Unix-based. If only, for the sake of the security of all our information. It says that forums.Groundspeak.com is also running IIS but that sounds weird... are you guys really running PHP under a Windows environment? Do you have any idea how much faster your web site would be if it wasn't running under IIS?

 

Server Error in '/' Application.

Exception of type System.OutOfMemoryException was thrown.

Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

 

Exception Details: System.OutOfMemoryException: Exception of type System.OutOfMemoryException was thrown.

 

Source Error:

 

An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below.

 

Stack Trace:

 

[OutOfMemoryException: Exception of type System.OutOfMemoryException was thrown.]

 

[HttpException (0x80004005): Unable to connect to SQL Server session database.]

System.Web.SessionState.SqlStateConnection..ctor(String sqlconnectionstring) +191

System.Web.SessionState.SqlStateClientManager.GetConnection(Boolean& usePooling) +98

System.Web.SessionState.SqlStateClientManager.GetExclusive(String id) +41

System.Web.SessionState.SqlStateClientManager.System.Web.SessionState.IStateClientManager.BeginGetExclusive(String id, AsyncCallback cb, Object state) +6

System.Web.SessionState.SessionStateModule.GetSessionStateItem() +67

System.Web.SessionState.SessionStateModule.BeginAcquireState(Object source, EventArgs e, AsyncCallback cb, Object extraData) +274

System.Web.AsyncEventExecutionStep.System.Web.HttpApplication+IExecutionStep.Execute() +66

System.Web.HttpApplication.ExecuteStep(IExecutionStep step, Boolean& completedSynchronously) +173

 

Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:1.1.4322.2300; ASP.NET Version:1.1.4322.2300

Edited by arpegio
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They're tools, not religions. Get over it.

 

This may actually be a hardware issue since it was an out of memory exception and we've been having an issue with one of the machines. We'll look into it.

Edited by Jeremy
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They're tools, not religions. Get over it.

 

You're right, they are tools. I just don't use a banana when I need a hammer. It's also disconcerting that when the system crashes, it barfs out a LOT of information on your applications that end users shouldn't see.

 

I have run both IIS and Apache systems side-by-side and the difference in stability and performance is dramatic, especially in database applications. I think what you all have set up here is a brilliant software system. I just think that it's a shame it's so Microsoft-dependent; I think it's going to cost you at least 4-5 times more money to maintain over a comparable Unix system, and it won't be able handle as much traffic.

 

However, you guys are based in Washington, so your choice of development platform is predictable. I really wish .ASP was as stable as other systems. Look at Myspace.com -- their cold fusion-based system just barely can handle the traffic. If the developers had used a more solid platform, they wouldn't have as many troubles. I'm just commenting on it. I am not particularly loyal to unix as much as I can't deny as an admin, life is a lot easier when your platforms are open source and unix-based. It just makes me sad to see a really clever software application running in an environment that isn't as good as the app. Puzzle Pirates is another example... a great online multiplayer game, written in Java, that runs about 50 times slower than if it were written in C. As a developer, I find it depressing when people pick tools that aren't always the best choice for the application. But obviously your opinion may differ. I think that if you all migrate from .ASP to a native unix-based PHP/MySQL or PHP/Oracle system (using Oracle mainly as a core database and not their equally unstable peripheral apps), the network would be more reliable and be able to scale better.

 

So is the forum server running unix or is it running php under IIS? Netcraft says the server is a windows platform. Is your whole shop Microsoft-centric, except for the forum software? I'm just curious.

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Activestate.com makes PHP and Perl for winblows. At least the perl is quite stable (and nearly as fast as perl is on 'other' platforms ;)).

 

I haven't had MS on my desk for years. I run different Linux distros on desktop, different Unixes on servers and Mac OS X on my laptop. The choice was quite clear for someone who's been in software development business for more than 2 decades... Only times I have to use my wife's Win XP is when I want to upload maps to my Garmin or run GSAK.

 

Anyway, it would take a long time for Groundspeak tech staff to learn new platform, new tools etc. And even if they wanted to switch the platform, the existing code base would have to be ported to new environment. If the people come from MS background, it's hard to get used to different thinking in *ix world.

 

Oh, and I agree! On, say, open source tools on Linux the same hardware could probably take twice the load with no licence fees for OS, DB or tools. I've seen (and done) it so many times...

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It's also disconcerting that when the system crashes, it barfs out a LOT of information on your applications that end users shouldn't see.

 

Amen. The amount of information given in the error messages about database schemas, code structure and other goodies are quite unbelievable.

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Think you can do it better, eh? Then got apply to work there, if they would take you.

http://Groundspeak.com/jobs.aspx

You have a problem with folks making constructive suggestions based on decades of their own experience?

 

As I read it, the posters simply said that based on their experience and direct knowledge, the site would run faster and with less maintenance at a lower cost on other operating systems.

 

Based on my 30+ years of experience with high availability real-time systems on multiple platforms including Windows and Unix-based systems, I agree. Unfortunately, the migration costs and the impact of the potential downtime during the transition probably outweigh the benefits in both the short and medium term.

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They're tools, not religions. Get over it.

 

You're right, they are tools. I just don't use a banana when I need a hammer. It's also disconcerting that when the system crashes, it barfs out a LOT of information on your applications that end users shouldn't see.

 

 

Fallacy 1: You can hide the debug information if you want to during a crash. I choose to leave it there so I can see what may be going on when a bug occurs. I will admit that I need to add some bug reporting code to the site, however, which will remove the actual errors from view.

 

Since the code we write is not open source, however, it would be difficult for someone to actually use the code. That and the move to all stored procedures reduces the security holes like SQL injection attacks that plague any code base.

 

I have run both IIS and Apache systems side-by-side and the difference in stability and performance is dramatic, especially in database applications. I think what you all have set up here is a brilliant software system. I just think that it's a shame it's so Microsoft-dependent; I think it's going to cost you at least 4-5 times more money to maintain over a comparable Unix system, and it won't be able handle as much traffic.

 

Fallacy 2: The upkeep of LAMP vs Microsoft is comparable.

 

However, you guys are based in Washington, so your choice of development platform is predictable.

 

I'm from Virginia. Your quote above is not rational thinking which limits your credibility when you deny that language bases don't equate to religion.

 

I just read it as "dude, you totally are Microsoft's little buddy." I assure you that there is no official or unofficial relationship with Microsoft. To borrow a quote from Apple, "It just works."

 

I really wish .ASP was as stable as other systems. Look at Myspace.com -- their cold fusion-based system just barely can handle the traffic. If the developers had used a more solid platform, they wouldn't have as many troubles. I'm just commenting on it. I am not particularly loyal to unix as much as I can't deny as an admin, life is a lot easier when your platforms are open source and unix-based.

 

It's very stable. This is one of the top 4,000 web sites on the Internet and it handles the traffic pretty well. Any issues with databases or web code has to do with the coder, not the code. Admittedly I'm not a brilliant programmer but fortunately with more premium memberships I have been able to hire smart people who are improving the site for us.

 

You seem to have an emotional feeling towards .asp. I've written PHP, Perl, Cold Fusion, TCL, worked in Unix and MySql, and find them all to have their benefits and drawbacks. Instead of getting emotional about Micro$oft (teh gey) I instead choose to select tools and work with them.

 

It's a common problem with programmers.

 

As a developer, I find it depressing when people pick tools that aren't always the best choice for the application. But obviously your opinion may differ.

 

Obviously <_<

 

I think that if you all migrate from .ASP to a native unix-based PHP/MySQL or PHP/Oracle system (using Oracle mainly as a core database and not their equally unstable peripheral apps), the network would be more reliable and be able to scale better.

 

We're considering making some of the readonly databases mySql for a cost savings, but have had a lot of trouble with mySql in the past with performance. Perhaps in the future.

 

The codebase is getting pretty solid for the web site. The bottleneck has always been the database and mostly due to legacy hobby design more than anything else. It has helped to offload larger tasks to their own replicated database.

 

So is the forum server running unix or is it running php under IIS? Netcraft says the server is a windows platform. Is your whole shop Microsoft-centric, except for the forum software? I'm just curious.

 

No. We use a combination of LAMP and MS for our projects, picking the tools to fit the needs. Due to the cost savings by using Microsoft products we primarily work with the OS, however.

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