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Dealing With Problem Placers


SG-MIN
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My question is really how can cachers encourage other cachers to place better caches.

 

Hold on... it's coming to me... I got this new novel concept...

 

TELL THE GUY HE COULD IMPROVE HIS CACHE PLACEMENT!

 

OMG, I'm heading to the patent office. This is revolutionary. I mean, well, we could argue back and forth over whether to ignore them and/or argue over whether or not they're a problem, or we could employ this amazing new approach where you actually communicate with the cache owner and make some helpful suggestions. He doesn't have to listen to you, but if he is open-minded and intelligent, COMMUNICATING WITH HIM might be productive. Maybe you're off track, but any feedback is good feedback. At least that's what I believe, but I'm probably going way out on a limb here suggesting such a radical maneuver. Use with caution!

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Regardless of who you are, we all know there are some dumb caches by anyone's standard [for instance if it is a mundane location, with typical hiding techniques, near other caches, with no points of interest (i.e. a film canister hidden on a dumpter behind a convienant mart in a commercial area of town)]

 

 

There are some people who won't even concede this point.

 

Briansnat is right again! I don't concede this point. Sure I see plenty of cache that where I say "Why would anyone put that cache there?" But I can't read the hider's mind. In a few instances I later found out they had a good reason - at least what they thought was a good reason.

 

you could chalk that up to the good sites being taken, but in all honesty, in my area, there are still great places that are far from the nearest cache. The most saturated area is the most mundane area of the county.

 

This is an extreme case but I'm starting to see too many maps like this:6e1e0b77-444d-44af-940c-c5485cafe08d.jpg

 

And yes, the state doesn't prohibit caches in state parks. And if you know the area, please don't reveal it, I'm not trying to bash the hiders, many of the ones in that town were pretty good, they others, well... But none in the huge green area?

 

Note: 5 and 8 were spectacular hikes, not all of the ones listed were micros, but I think you can see my point.

 

Paul

 

Perhaps the state park has a fee. Sometime people will avoid placing caches where you have to pay a fee. In our local National Forest you have to pay $5 for a pass to let you park on the side of the road. There are plenty of caches on trails that start from the urban/wilderness boundary where you can park outside of the forest boundaries but relatively few when you have park inside the boundaries.

 

Also, you should keep in mind that the older caches that you see today are not representative of all caches that we hid and found in the 'early years'. They are only the older caches that have survived. Therefore, these tend to be full-sized caches hidden in the woods.

 

Also, since these older rural caches still exist, they block their locations.

 

Also "better" caches are more likely to be adopted or even maintained by their original owners. I have noticed that the so-called "lame" caches have a tendancy to get archived quickly compared to better caches. That may be one way to sort out these caches. Look for caches that have been around longer.

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I'm not sure anything needs to be done. I looked at the area and it seems that there are 2 or 3 cachers doing the majority of the placing however there is a bunch of finds on each of their caches.

 

If no one else in the area wants to place caches, let those that are have at it. Apparently many think they are worth finding.

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This is an extreme case but I'm starting to see too many maps like this:6e1e0b77-444d-44af-940c-c5485cafe08d.jpg

 

And yes, the state doesn't prohibit caches in state parks. And if you know the area, please don't reveal it, I'm not trying to bash the hiders, many of the ones in that town were pretty good, they others, well... But none in the huge green area?

 

Note: 5 and 8 were spectacular hikes, not all of the ones listed were micros, but I think you can see my point.

I guess I'm missing your point.

 

Have you considered hiding some caches in that park? Maybe there are still hoops that one must jump through that keep caches from being placed there.

 

This actually reminds me of a conversation I had with a local cacher a while back. He had gotten bitten by a tick and had gotten quite ill as a result. He vowed not to do anything that required a walk in the woods until winter. Clearly, he's not going to place a woodland cache and then have to maintain it during a buggy summer.

 

Either way, caches are where they are because the cache owners placed them there. If you want a different kind of cache then are predominate in your area. Hide what you like and get your buds to do the same. Beyond that, don't hunt for caches that you know you won't enjoy. If particular cachers hide caches that you don't like, ignore their caches. New cachers will find your caches and those hidden by the other fellow. Don't be shocked if some of them like the other guy's better.

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Really I don't think there is a lot you can do other than encourage better hides by placing your caches like you want others to be placed. If the other cachers have fun on your hides, they will try to make theirs just as good.

 

I know you are from the BG area, you probably have an idea who I am talking about. I mean the guy is really nice, and he has a few great caches out there, but lots of others that don't seem to bring a geocacher to anything worthwhile

 

So why don't you confront this really nice guy in an event and tell him you are not impressed with his caches that don't take you to anywhere that impresses you. You may just get "something" done rather than just sit here and gossip about him. You may just find out what his problems are that make him waste your time.

 

 

He (nor I) do events. None in the imediate area.

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Really I don't think there is a lot you can do other than encourage better hides by placing your caches like you want others to be placed. If the other cachers have fun on your hides, they will try to make theirs just as good.

 

I know you are from the BG area, you probably have an idea who I am talking about. I mean the guy is really nice, and he has a few great caches out there, but lots of others that don't seem to bring a geocacher to anything worthwhile

 

So why don't you confront this really nice guy in an event and tell him you are not impressed with his caches that don't take you to anywhere that impresses you. You may just get "something" done rather than just sit here and gossip about him. You may just find out what his problems are that make him waste your time.

 

He (nor I) do events. None in the imediate area.

 

So hold one. Anybody can. He may show up.

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I've been thinking about this a lot since you asked and I've read through this thread a few times.

 

I looked at the maps for the general area you are talking about. My curiosity wasn't just because of your this thread--Bowling Green is near an area on my list of places to go caching one day. One of my uncles was from that area, and I am curious to see some of the places he spoke of when I was younger.

 

I'll tell you what I see as an outsider:

Fairly well spread out caches.

Not many caches there yet, so plenty of room for more. There are only 60 or so caches in the area just around the city, and those are put out by about 12 different cachers.

A reasonable variety of caches, not many virtuals, a few puzzles, a few more multis.

 

I glanced through some of the cache pages near there, and saw compliments about the cache on every page. Admittedly I didn't look at all of them, but I looked at about half of them. In the cases of the handful of cachers who have the most hides, I looked a little more closely. Same thing. Every cache had something that someone complimented. No big looooong lists of people just saying TNLNSL or TFTC (which others in these forums is nice-talk for "gee your cache stunk but it was there so I grabbed a smiley").

 

In other words, if there is a huge problem, it really isn't obvious to the outsider.

You've got a nice small caching community there. It should be fairly close-knit with so few people involved in hiding geocaches.

 

I notice that you have only been caching for about six months, and have only hidden two caches yourself. If the caches that are out there in your area aren't to your liking, you really ought to take the advice given to you by people in this thread, and put some out there that are the kind you want to hunt. If other people like them, they will copy them, and you'll be able to hunt them.

I think if I were you, I would just let this one go. You seem like you really want something to come of this, but it may be one of those things that is better left alone. I have to tell you, it almost looks like the guy stepped on your toes somehow, and you are hoping that someone else will publically embarass him now that you've mentioned this little concern you have--but I'll say this, as small as your local group is, you probably don't really want to go there.

 

I appreciate your well thougth out post.

 

I do not have anything against this cacher (in fact I have visited all of his caches, and a few are quite good.) I am just interested in improving the whole area.

 

As you pointed out, our area is a newly budding cache area with relatively few placers. In my mind, that is why a few people who place a whole lot of ho-hum caches, can really affect the atmosphere of our area.

 

As you pointed out, I am a new cacher, but I have traveled a bit, read up alot, and in general am pretty idealistic. In the short time I have been at it, I can already tell an improvement in my assesment of caches (yes at one time, I thought lamppost skirts were a great idea.)

 

I really would like to see our area be a geocaching hotspot where people want to visit. I really do want the whole area to improve cache wise.

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I guess I'm missing your point.

 

Have you considered hiding some caches in that park? Maybe there are still hoops that one must jump through that keep caches from being placed there.

 

This actually reminds me of a conversation I had with a local cacher a while back. He had gotten bitten by a tick and had gotten quite ill as a result. He vowed not to do anything that required a walk in the woods until winter. Clearly, he's not going to place a woodland cache and then have to maintain it during a buggy summer.

 

Either way, caches are where they are because the cache owners placed them there. If you want a different kind of cache then are predominate in your area. Hide what you like and get your buds to do the same. Beyond that, don't hunt for caches that you know you won't enjoy. If particular cachers hide caches that you don't like, ignore their caches. New cachers will find your caches and those hidden by the other fellow. Don't be shocked if some of them like the other guy's better.

 

IMHO, this post is game, set, and match.

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A local cacher known for his excellent hides has held a series of workshop events:

Basically, he set up tools and workbenches in his garage and yard, provided some basic supplies, and invited everyone over to work on their (fiendishly clever?) cache containers. I think something like that is a great way to promote more interesting hides.

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we had a cacher in our area who put 40 caches in a 5 mile stretch, the most of which are 35mm film canesters laying beside fence posts and other land marks. to say the least we didnt finsh them beacuse we were getting VERY bored. im not too sure anybody talked to him but he did take some out.

Edited by LgRedneck08
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we had a cacher in our area who put 40 caches in a 5 mile stretch, the most of which are 35mm film canesters laying beside fence posts and other land marks. to say the least we didnt finsh them beacuse we were getting VERY bored. im not too sure anybody talked to him but he did take some out.

 

Sounds like a "Power Trail". I'm surprised they got listed. :lol:

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Regardless of who you are, we all know there are some dumb caches by anyone's standard [for instance if it is a mundane location, with typical hiding techniques, near other caches, with no points of interest (i.e. a film canister hidden on a dumpter behind a convienant mart in a commercial area of town)]
There are some people who won't even concede this point.

Briansnat is right again! I don't concede this point. Sure I see plenty of cache that where I say "Why would anyone put that cache there?" But I can't read the hider's mind. In a few instances I later found out they had a good reason - at least what they thought was a good reason.
So as long as someone has a good reason it's OK to hide a cache behind a smelly trash dumpster? Hmmm, what might that good reason be???? :lol:
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I guess I'm missing your point.

 

Have you considered hiding some caches in that park? Maybe there are still hoops that one must jump through that keep caches from being placed there.

 

This actually reminds me of a conversation I had with a local cacher a while back. He had gotten bitten by a tick and had gotten quite ill as a result. He vowed not to do anything that required a walk in the woods until winter. Clearly, he's not going to place a woodland cache and then have to maintain it during a buggy summer.

 

Either way, caches are where they are because the cache owners placed them there. If you want a different kind of cache then are predominate in your area. Hide what you like and get your buds to do the same. Beyond that, don't hunt for caches that you know you won't enjoy. If particular cachers hide caches that you don't like, ignore their caches. New cachers will find your caches and those hidden by the other fellow. Don't be shocked if some of them like the other guy's better.

 

IMHO, this post is game, set, and match.

 

I'll quote both of you and try and address both of you.

 

Sorry that I was misunderstood, but no, it isn't game, set and match. I just hadn't explain myself clearly. I thought my point was obvious and it wasn't.

 

The point that I was trying to make, and should have been more clear about, is that the maps are changing. I've only been doing this about 2 years and the caches all seemed to be in the woods then. Now I'm seeing more areas like the above area.

 

As for placing my own in the woods, I have! I have about 25 hides that I've either placed or helped members of my family place: 15 in the woods, 4 urban, 2 suburban, 1 urban virtual and 3 events.

 

As for not liking those I pointed out, well, I actually like many of them and I did find most of them. (I've recently been smitten with the 'how many can you do in one day' bug and easy dense areas like these attract me now.) I was just very surprised when I saw the big green empty area on the map.

 

Will I hunt the urban micros? Yes on FTFP and high numbers runs, otherwise no. Will I go into the woods, yes, whenever I can. Will I continue to hide? You betcha!

 

Paul

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<snip>

 

caches are where they are because the cache owners placed them there. If you want a different kind of cache then are predominate in your area. Hide what you like and get your buds to do the same. Beyond that, don't hunt for caches that you know you won't enjoy. If particular cachers hide caches that you don't like, ignore their caches. New cachers will find your caches and those hidden by the other fellow. Don't be shocked if some of them like the other guy's better.

 

I didn't mean to imply that sbell's post was putting you in your place. I was specifically referring to this part of the post framed as an answer to the entire thread. Sorry.

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This was posted in another thread, and I think it speaks volumes to our discussion. Dr. Phil would not approve, but I think he has a point.

 

 

 

I mean come on guys. STOP DEFENDING JUNK! The reason we do this is to play with our new toy and to see something we normally would not have seen. Pick a rare tree, an interesting rock, a cool view, something other than a find. Why does this place warrant coming to? Why should i spend my time and effort to come to your cache, what makes it worht the trip? Tell us about it on the site, give us a reason to go.

 

 

 

Don't we all want better caches (regardless of what better means to you)* Don't we all want other geocachers to enjoy themselves and to further the sport/game/hobby.

 

 

Lets be willing to encourage better placement.

 

__________________________________________

 

 

* I get sick and tired of having to qualify this.

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Even if I have the best McDonalds in the world with gourmet food, people still associate McDonalds as cheap, fast food.

 

Even if there are a few great caches in Anytown USA, if one cacher dominates that area with crap caches, then Anytown USA could get the rap as having lame caches.

 

In the end, problem placers hurt the perception of geocaches in general. (this goes back to the whole arguement: maybe people place lamp skirt caches, because that is all they have seen.)

 

Whose perception are they hurting? I have only cached heavily in a few states...NC, FL, SC, TX and VA. I personally don't think any of those places have problem one with a bad reputation. Sure there may be some caches there that YOU may not like but there are certainly many many others to satisfy most cachers. One of the best trips we took was four days in Nashville. We were able to find caches of all types to satisfy us. I went out early in the morning and satisfied my number hunger. Then Ms horsegeeks and I spent the rest of the day and the evening doing ones that we both liked. I hear some forum bellyaching about the lousy caches in Nashville. There were caches for all tastes. The only problem I had was a certain cache in a beautiful park south of Nashville where I broke my ankle not following instructions on the cache page.

 

I just don't see why people gripe about caches they don't like, there are so many more

 

 

If you take the average quality (measured by whatever scale you choose) from 2006 and compare it to the average quality of caches in 2002, what do you think you would see?

 

 

In general, the overall cache quality has degraded. That is the perception to which I am refering.

Being around since the beginning of '02 I would have to agree that the cache quality has fallen off bad. I remember back in the day when it was extremely rare to find micro caches, most everyone hid ammo cans or something of comparable size, now it seems like people just dump them for kicks. Now that being said I have a few micros out in the world, and that is because it is an interesting spot and I thought it needed a cache. On the note of interesting spots, I say that is a MAJOR area where cache quality has flew South. Used to I guess you could say back in the good ole days, when you found a cache it was at a nice view of a lake, or in a nice park, or something, there was a reason why a cacher brought you to that spot. Now a days, go look under the third light post from the left in your local TRAM LAW (That is Wal-Mart) for folks not from around these parts) parking lot. I guess maybe that is the reason I don't go caching a lot anymore. I still go don't get me wrong, and I surely pick and choose which cache I am looking for. Most of my caching now I do when I am out of state on business or vacation, I find more enjoyment that way.

Just my .02

Cya on the trails,

Rusty

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I have never met a cache I didn't like! B)

I have.

 

I've looked for this evil JoGPS hide about a dozen times and have not been able to turn it up. I hate that cache.

 

I've enjoyed every cache that I've found, however.

Ooooh, how well I know that feeling! There was one JoGPS hide that we hunted without finding for hours. A year to the day after we first looked we finally found it. A couple of days later, he temporarily disabled it. I almost posted a note teasing him about disabling it because he thought there must be something wrong with it if we could find it! :lol:

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As you pointed out, our area is a newly budding cache area with relatively few placers. In my mind, that is why a few people who place a whole lot of ho-hum caches, can really affect the atmosphere of our area.

 

As you pointed out, I am a new cacher, but I have traveled a bit, read up alot, and in general am pretty idealistic. In the short time I have been at it, I can already tell an improvement in my assesment of caches (yes at one time, I thought lamppost skirts were a great idea.)

 

I really would like to see our area be a geocaching hotspot where people want to visit. I really do want the whole area to improve cache wise.

 

Could I weigh in again? I had the "the tribe has spoken, ignore the caches" post. :lol: Was meant to be more comedic anyways, and more geared to larger metro areas, where it's just too overrun with lameness.

If your caching community is small, by all means talk in person (not via email), and lead by example by placing quality caches. Then again, the "geocaching hotspot that people will want to visit" is usually the one with a micro in every parking lot, more if it's a big parking lot B)

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As you pointed out, I am a new cacher, but I have traveled a bit, read up alot, and in general am pretty idealistic. In the short time I have been at it, I can already tell an improvement in my assesment of caches (yes at one time, I thought lamppost skirts were a great idea.)

 

I really would like to see our area be a geocaching hotspot where people want to visit. I really do want the whole area to improve cache wise.

We're all idealistic when it comes to new endeavors. When I fist started teaching, I thought I would revolutionize science learning. Um, I'm still working on that seven years later.

 

Your tastes may continue to change as you find more caches. Circumstances may dictate some of that for you.

 

I've read in these forums about avid hikers that only hunted those lone caches at the tops of mountains, and then suffered serious accidents or underwent surguries only to discover that they could continue to enjoy caching if they learned to solve puzzles so they could find some of those 1-terrain caches they once disdained.

 

I've talked with cachers who once loved to do only multis--the longer the better--until their children grew old enough to take along on the hunt. They soon learned that trying to do a three hour hike with the average five-year old is not a good idea, no matter how wonderful the ammo box at the end of the hike. They also came to appreciate the short stomp up the woodland trail to the ammo box full of army men--for the sheer joy of the look on the five year-old face.

 

What I am saying is that there are a lot of reasons people like the kinds of caches that they like, and just as many reasons that what they like today will not be what they want to hunt tomorrow.

 

I'm not sure you appreciate what some folks have said in here--because they have said it so politely---so I'll say it a little more plainly:

You have no authority to judge what constitutes a "good hide" for other people to hide or hunt.

 

I don't mean that to be harsh, just realistic. What you think is a good cache might be on my list of horror stories. The caches I love might bore you to tears. Reasonable people disagree on many things, and how, where, and when to hide a cache is certainly one of those things.

Even if the places someone else is putting their caches are mundane, boring, lame etc my advice is still the same:

If the caches that are out there in your area aren't to your liking, you really ought to take the advice given to you by people in this thread, and put some out there that are the kind you want to hunt. If other people like them, they will copy them, and you'll be able to hunt them.

If you put out caches in great places other people will find them.

If they really liked them, they will put out other caches just like them.

And someone else will find those caches. If they like them, they will copy them.

And soon the area will be covered in caches that you think are just swell.

 

And then someone else will probably come here to the forums and complain about all the caches like that in your area. :lol:

 

The solution to your concern is completely in your hands and doesn't involve that other cacher at all. Stop posting about the problem here in the forum and go put out some caches in places you think they ought to be. If you know a couple of other people who feel the same way you do, encourage them to do the same. I'm not sure when I'll get down that way to do some caching, but I'll be watching the listings in that area for your new caches to pop up. Hopefully some of your caches will be the ones that I'll do while I'm there.

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I've read in these forums about avid hikers that only hunted those lone caches at the tops of mountains, and then suffered serious accidents or underwent surguries only to discover that they could continue to enjoy caching if they learned to solve puzzles so they could find some of those 1-terrain caches they once disdained.

 

I've talked with cachers who once loved to do only multis--the longer the better--until their children grew old enough to take along on the hunt. They soon learned that trying to do a three hour hike with the average five-year old is not a good idea, no matter how wonderful the ammo box at the end of the hike. They also came to appreciate the short stomp up the woodland trail to the ammo box full of army men--for the sheer joy of the look on the five year-old face.

 

You have no authority to judge what constitutes a "good hide" for other people to hide or hunt.

 

The solution to your concern is completely in your hands and doesn't involve that other cacher at all. Stop posting about the problem here in the forum and go put out some caches in places you think they ought to be. If you know a couple of other people who feel the same way you do, encourage them to do the same. I'm not sure when I'll get down that way to do some caching, but I'll be watching the listings in that area for your new caches to pop up. Hopefully some of your caches will be the ones that I'll do while I'm there.

 

 

Edited for Space

 

 

 

 

First off, I completely agree with the lead by example sentament, and could never imagine doing anything but. Right now I am working on some "Wow Factor" caches that I am excited about.

 

 

As for your comments about changing styles, apparently you have not read this thread thouroughly. Perhaps you are confusing this thread with those other threads about micro spew, and cache ratings, and long hikes with ammo cans.

 

 

I am not bashing micros, or saying you must walk a mile to get a smiley. I am talking about those absolutely horrible caches:

 

Regardless of who you are, we all know there are some dumb caches by anyone's standard [for instance if it is a mundane location, with typical hiding techniques, near other caches, with no points of interest (i.e. a film canister hidden on a dumpter behind a convienant mart in a commercial area of town)]

 

My question is really how can cachers encourage other cachers to place better caches.

 

 

 

That has nothing to do with preferance - it has everything to do with poorly thought-out hides. Not park-n-grab v/s trek, or multi/puzzle verses micro.

 

 

There are plenty of other threads out there to complain in. I disagree with you that we can't judge caches - of course we can. Some are horrible and you and I know it.

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No, I'm not confused. What you think of a "poorly thought out" might be just where I want to go for some reason or another. I do understand what you are saying, and I have seen some hides that left me asking "Now why did they bring me here?"

 

If the area was actually dangerous and I was sure the cache owner didn't know it, I drop them an email just to let them know. If it was just mundane, I shake my head sadly, and reminded myself never to make a hide like that!

 

But never would it occur to me to try to dictate to someone else where they can hide their caches--other than by merely not going to caches in places I don't like.

Edited by Team Neos
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I think we are on the same page. My intentions are honest - I promise. I do not want to dictate what can and cannot be placed - I want to encourage all cachers (including myself) to place better caches. Even great caches can be better.

 

This is not a geocacher bashing session at all - it is a quest for improvement across the board.

 

We all should have to answer the question: "Why would I want people to visit here?" whenever we place a new cache.

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I think we are on the same page. My intentions are honest - I promise. I do not want to dictate what can and cannot be placed - I want to encourage all cachers (including myself) to place better caches. Even great caches can be better.

 

This is not a geocacher bashing session at all - it is a quest for improvement across the board.

 

We all should have to answer the question: "Why would I want people to visit here?" whenever we place a new cache.

 

 

I think this question should be included and answered in the cache submittal form!

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I think we are on the same page. My intentions are honest - I promise. I do not want to dictate what can and cannot be placed - I want to encourage all cachers (including myself) to place better caches. Even great caches can be better.

 

This is not a geocacher bashing session at all - it is a quest for improvement across the board.

 

We all should have to answer the question: "Why would I want people to visit here?" whenever we place a new cache.

 

 

I think this question should be included and answered in the cache submittal form!

 

 

 

I wasn't about to go there, but I share the sentiment. With all the complaining (rightly and wrongly) about the review process, all we need is another subjective question that reveiwers must decide on. I just don't think that would be fair to reviewers, but I do think the question needs a good answer.

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I think we are on the same page. My intentions are honest - I promise. I do not want to dictate what can and cannot be placed - I want to encourage all cachers (including myself) to place better caches. Even great caches can be better.

 

This is not a geocacher bashing session at all - it is a quest for improvement across the board.

 

We all should have to answer the question: "Why would I want people to visit here?" whenever we place a new cache.

I think this question should be included and answered in the cache submittal form!

I wasn't about to go there, but I share the sentiment. With all the complaining (rightly and wrongly) about the review process, all we need is another subjective question that reveiwers must decide on. I just don't think that would be fair to reviewers, but I do think the question needs a good answer.

Asking the reviewers to judge if this is a good answer in like asking them to judge if a virtual cache had "Wow". Requiring caches to be in "Wow" locations is not a viable idea. If you asked people why they placed a cache is a particular place you might get answers like

  1. Because I couldn't pass up hiding the cache in that loose brick
  2. Because you can look for the cache here while muggles are usually in the front of the strip mall. Since I work here, I can do maintenance easily
  3. Because I wanted to share where I smoked my first cigarette
  4. Before this was a shopping mall parking lot, it was an apartment building, but before that it was an orange grove where they found a body from a infamous murder that happen back in 1912
  5. Because this is the exact geographic center of the state
  6. Because this was use as a location shot in some movie
  7. Because the area could use some CITO

There are probably as many reasons that people could come up with to hide caches in what you call "lame" spot as there are caches in lame spots.

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I think we are on the same page. My intentions are honest - I promise. I do not want to dictate what can and cannot be placed - I want to encourage all cachers (including myself) to place better caches. Even great caches can be better.

 

This is not a geocacher bashing session at all - it is a quest for improvement across the board.

 

We all should have to answer the question: "Why would I want people to visit here?" whenever we place a new cache.

I think this question should be included and answered in the cache submittal form!

I wasn't about to go there, but I share the sentiment. With all the complaining (rightly and wrongly) about the review process, all we need is another subjective question that reveiwers must decide on. I just don't think that would be fair to reviewers, but I do think the question needs a good answer.

Asking the reviewers to judge if this is a good answer in like asking them to judge if a virtual cache had "Wow". Requiring caches to be in "Wow" locations is not a viable idea. If you asked people why they placed a cache is a particular place you might get answers like

  1. Because I couldn't pass up hiding the cache in that loose brick
  2. Because you can look for the cache here while muggles are usually in the front of the strip mall. Since I work here, I can do maintenance easily
  3. Because I wanted to share where I smoked my first cigarette
  4. Before this was a shopping mall parking lot, it was an apartment building, but before that it was an orange grove where they found a body from a infamous murder that happen back in 1912
  5. Because this is the exact geographic center of the state
  6. Because this was use as a location shot in some movie
  7. Because the area could use some CITO

There are probably as many reasons that people could come up with to hide caches in what you call "lame" spot as there are caches in lame spots.

When I put out my caches, I try to give people some sense of the reason I wanted them to go there. We have one that we chose because it's a great place to stretch your legs on a long section of highway, another that is a terrific place to park to pick persimmons. One is near our favorite fishing spot, one is there just because my friend who owns the property said the spot reminded her of the log scene from Dirty Dancing (well, it did until the log started to crumble, anyway).

 

I have gone to caches that I suspected weren't going to be that thrilling just because someone said it there used to be a dance hall there where they first heard the Kinks (parking lot now), or the site of the first school in the area (beauty parlor now), or it some other historic tidbit etc. There's a series near me that points out lots of those kinds of places--you know, the kind of info you get in bad directions "Turn where the Sears used to be..." Many of them are in completely unremarkable locations now, but it's amazing to see how things have grown up through the eyes of a local.

 

I don't think we need to ask reviewers to pass judgement on the "why" of the location, but I appreciate it when people tell me why I am going there.

Edited by Team Neos
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You have no authority to judge what constitutes a "good hide" for other people to hide or hunt.

 

Wow.

 

That's a very interesting statement.

 

I'll take it from the other side: You have no authority to tell me that I can't have an opinion, nor restrict my opportunity to tell someone else that opinion.

 

I do so on my website, and I recommend certain caches to others through my Top 10% Favorites on my profile. My whole rating suggestion is geared toward having similar lists aggregated, but many do not like that for whatever reason.

 

There used to be a website on the net called "CheckTheGrid.com" The idea was that the site showed the results of 10 separate movie reviews and a user poll. The quick look showed whether that particular movie reviewer recommended the movie (green), cautioned that it was average (yellow) or said that the movie stunk (red).

 

I checked the internet archive and found some of their ratings:

f9c857b7-5dbc-4526-ac7f-ff5fa3f86624.jpg

Based on this, I would have said that I would have wanted to see both Spiderman and Black Hawk Down, but I would want to investigate closer Anger Management before I went to go see it. That doesn't mean that I WOULDN'T see it, but I would investigate it closer.

 

According to their signoff page, in 2001 CheckTheGrid.com it was named a "Very Useful Site" by Yahoo! Internet Life Magazine and was featured in Entertainment Weekly with an A-. Finally in 2002 it was named "the best digest of movie reviews on the web" by Newsweek.

 

All it did was aggregate the scores of 10 different movie reviewers. It showed the reviews, but it didn't try to subdivide the movies into horror or action or sci-fi or chick-flick or animated feature or drama or Ben Affleck movies. It just said if the particular movie reviewer recommended the movie or not and showed the aggregation of those results.

 

===========================

 

But all of this is off-topic for the thread, but that's where this particular quote that I started was heading.

 

I'll still stick with my recommendation:

Lead by example. Place a whole bunch of inspired caches with scenic views, crafty thoughtful hides and interesting little-known historic locations.

 

People will flock to your hides and tell wonderful tales of the experiences in their logs.

 

You'll get more enjoyment out of the game.

 

 

 

But still, people who want nothing more than their current find count (CFC) to be CFC+1 will still go to find the micro behind the dumpster.

 

But you'll sleep better and get better enjoyment for the positive impact that you've had locally.

 

edit to correct movie title

Edited by Markwell
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You have no authority to judge what constitutes a "good hide" for other people to hide or hunt.

 

Wow.

 

That's a very interesting statement.

 

I'll take it from the other side: You have no authority to tell me that I can't have an opinion, nor restrict my opportunity to tell someone else that opinion.

Um, I'm not sure you read it with the inflection I intended, or in the context in which I wrote it:

You have no authority to judge ...for other people

 

As in "Markwell, you should NOT go do cache abcxyz because I think it is lame"

or

"Markwell, you must move your cache 123456 because I don't like the spot you chose for it"

 

As for offering opinions--we do that every time we write a log on a cache page, tell a friend about a cache we did, or put out a hide of our own. Opinions are welcome--demanding that someone else do what we want is not appropriate.

 

I wrote that meaning to point out that there may not "be" a problem at all. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and one person (or even two or twelve) can't chose the face of geocaching for everyone else. The best, and relaly only way, to change the shape of caching in you rown community is by the route you suggest--leading by example. If others don't follow, well, it just means that you're the odd one out after all.

Edited by Team Neos
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Just Curious...what is a "LAME" cache....so I don't do "Lame" caches?

 

In a sentance, a lame cache is one that has no reason to bring a geocacher to that cache.

 

Possible reason to bring a geocachers to a place:

  • Interesting hiding technique
  • great view
  • historic place
  • nice hike
  • good container
  • extra difficult
  • cool part of town
  • anything else is in someway interesting/unique/worthwhile/funny/clever/creative/etc.

Basically is it worth it to make a trip to find that cache?

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Just Curious...what is a "LAME" cache....so I don't do "Lame" caches?

It's any cache that "they" don't like.

This is not true. Many people don't have the ability to do certain caches like hard hikes or difficult puzzles so they don't "like" those. It doesn't make them "lame." I can 't believe we are arguing about what lame is. It's almost like some of you haven't experienced some of the real crap out there that we are talking about. I don't care if there was some historic event under some trash dumpster 200 years ago. NOW it is a smelly disgusting trash dumpster! Ergo it is a poor place for a cache and a complete turnoff for anyone that isn't trying to pad their numbers.

 

I honestly don't know what we can do about the situation other than what Markwell has been suggesting for a long time! So we created a special list of caches that we are proudly recommending to anyone visiting our area: San Diego's Consensus Favorites! :D

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Well I'm am brand new to geocaching with all of 4 finds so maybe I shouldn't even voice any opinionat all, but.....why isn't there a "rate this cache" form that could be used. You don't have to say who you are, the guy hiding the caches would get an opinion readout of his cache that would say 000% of people found this cache poor, fair, good, excelent. You could also have a basic list of why you felt a certain way. Like the things that are discussed so much on the forums. Location, view, easy, hard etc, etc. Poor - location. If everyone is rating it poorly, he gets the message without confrontation. If it balances out between good and bad, then he knows it could be just half the peoples opinion that its bad and choose to keep hiding the same way. Maybe this needs to be listed on the cache page itself so others can see what cachers really think about it. Ok I'm now covering my head with my arms.....bash me back into place :lol::D

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Well I'm am brand new to geocaching with all of 4 finds so maybe I shouldn't even voice any opinionat all, but.....why isn't there a "rate this cache" form that could be used. You don't have to say who you are, the guy hiding the caches would get an opinion readout of his cache that would say 000% of people found this cache poor, fair, good, excelent. You could also have a basic list of why you felt a certain way. Like the things that are discussed so much on the forums. Location, view, easy, hard etc, etc. Poor - location. If everyone is rating it poorly, he gets the message without confrontation. If it balances out between good and bad, then he knows it could be just half the peoples opinion that its bad and choose to keep hiding the same way. Maybe this needs to be listed on the cache page itself so others can see what cachers really think about it. Ok I'm now covering my head with my arms.....bash me back into place :lol::D

As you may see from the rating system thread, it's not that easy.

Edited by FamilyDNA
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Just Curious...what is a "LAME" cache....so I don't do "Lame" caches?
In a sentance, a lame cache is one that has no reason to bring a geocacher to that cache.

 

Possible reason to bring a geocachers to a place:

  • Interesting hiding technique
  • great view
  • historic place
  • nice hike
  • good container
  • extra difficult
  • cool part of town
  • anything else is in someway interesting/unique/worthwhile/funny/clever/creative/etc.

Basically is it worth it to make a trip to find that cache?

What I think you've missed in this list is that for some people, "because I can" is good enough, quickly followed by "because people will find it". Some cachers are OK with the reasoning being that not only is it sufficient to place a cache because it does not violate the guidelines, but also it will fulfill many other cachers needs to make CFC=CFC+1.

 

 

This is a game about location. Take a look at the top of the forum: Groundspeak: The Language of Location. Jeremy also said it here just this week: The activity used to be about the journey to discover new locations.

 

I think THAT'S what I miss most about the "good old days" in caching. I used to think it was REALLY great when someone took me to a forest preserve I had no idea was nearby, or to a cool little nook of wilderness in an area I was visiting. It was like I had a personal little tour guide telling me "There's something neat here that no one else knows about."

 

But what I've seen recently are caches placed because "there wasn't one here yet." The idea of bringing someone to a neat location has been lost.

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Well I'm am brand new to geocaching with all of 4 finds so maybe I shouldn't even voice any opinionat all, but.....why isn't there a "rate this cache" form that could be used. You don't have to say who you are, the guy hiding the caches would get an opinion readout of his cache that would say 000% of people found this cache poor, fair, good, excelent. You could also have a basic list of why you felt a certain way. Like the things that are discussed so much on the forums. Location, view, easy, hard etc, etc. Poor - location. If everyone is rating it poorly, he gets the message without confrontation. If it balances out between good and bad, then he knows it could be just half the peoples opinion that its bad and choose to keep hiding the same way. Maybe this needs to be listed on the cache page itself so others can see what cachers really think about it. Ok I'm now covering my head with my arms.....bash me back into place :lol::D

 

Great idea - of course that is my other soapbox!!!

 

I thought the same thing when I was a new cacher.

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I don't care if there was some historic event under some trash dumpster 200 years ago. NOW it is a smelly disgusting trash dumpster! Ergo it is a poor place for a cache and a complete turnoff for anyone that isn't trying to pad their numbers.

 

Maybe a poor place for a cache - but look who's suggesting it might be a good place for a waymark :D

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I don't care if there was some historic event under some trash dumpster 200 years ago. NOW it is a smelly disgusting trash dumpster! Ergo it is a poor place for a cache and a complete turnoff for anyone that isn't trying to pad their numbers.

 

Maybe a poor place for a cache - but look who's suggesting it might be a good place for a waymark :D

 

The same person that said, "My goodness. The activity used to be about the journey to discover new locations." :lol:

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:D Send that cache hider my way. Slip in 59270 to see what I have to work with. That's right! 24 caches in a 50 mile radius... 9 of them mine. Two are recent caches that I haven't had a chance to find yet because they are in a remote location which my travels this summer haven't taken me to yet. Even in a 100 mile radius, there aren't that many caches and of those, very few that I haven't found. :lol: It would be nice to be able to pick and choose which caches to go to based on the quality of the hide or location but I don't have that luxury. I select the caches by which direction I am heading and am thankful there are any caches along the way. Being able to search for a lame cache is still better then not having anything to search for at all.

By talking to this person or criticizing his caches, you could create a situation where he won't hide anymore at all. Complement him on the good caches and TNLNSL TFTC on the poor ones and be thankful you are able to make a choice on what caches to go to. :lol:

 

And remember -

It is far better to have cached and got lost then to have not cached at all!!! :lol:

Edited by SGT red jeep
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:D Send that cache hider my way. Slip in 59270 to see what I have to work with. That's right! 24 caches in a 50 mile radius... 9 of them mine. Two are recent caches that I haven't had a chance to find yet because they are in a remote location which my travels this summer haven't taken me to yet. Even in a 100 mile radius, there aren't that many caches and of those, very few that I haven't found. :lol: It would be nice to be able to pick and choose which caches to go to based on the quality of the hide or location but I don't have that luxury. I select the caches by which direction I am heading and am thankful there are any caches along the way. Being able to search for a lame cache is still better then not having anything to search for at all.

By talking to this person or criticizing his caches, you could create a situation where he won't hide anymore at all. Complement him on the good caches and TNLNSL TFTC on the poor ones and be thankful you are able to make a choice on what caches to go to. :lol:

 

And remember -

It is far better to have cached and got lost then to have not cached at all!!! :lol:

 

I think the problem is related to cache saturation. The cache separation distance is too close. Once all the prime spots have been taken then people keep placing them in whatever locations they can find that are 528 feet away from the nearest cache.

Edited by TrailGators
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