Is This A Violation?

[+PerryClayton]

If not, it seems to me like it's flirting dangerously close.

 

[+Rick618]

I would say it depends on if the person has permission to place it there. Some state lands that I've been on border private property and the owners have a similar easy to read signage.

Edited July 24, 2006 by Rick618

[+mtn-man]

Is it on this side of the fence? (Looks like a yes.)

Would you happen to know who owns the land behind it?

 

Feel free to email me with more details if you would like. Just click my name. Thanks for the heads up in any case, PC. I was good to meet you a couple of weeks ago.

[+Bear Paughs]

If you never have a reason to cross over into the posted areas, then it's fine, although the cache owner should note in the description to be heedful of the warnings and not to trespass.

[+sbell111]

From you pic, it would appear that the cache can be accessed without passing any 'no trespassing' signs. I guess it's OK.

[+Jhwk]

No. It looks, from your picture and elegant illustrations, like the cache is on the border of a restricted area. As long as I (we) don't cross that line, then it should be OK.

[+PerryClayton]

Is it on this side of the fence? (Looks like a yes.)

Would you happen to know who owns the land behind it?

 

Feel free to email me with more details if you would like. Just click my name. Thanks for the heads up in any case, PC. I was good to meet you a couple of weeks ago.

 

The cache was attached to the fence itself. The cache description does indeed say that there is no need to trespass or violate the posted restrictions. I do not know who owns the land (for all I know the cache placer could be the owner).

 

I just know it made us a bit nervous... but we did log the find . (Without crossing the fence).

 

It was good to meet you too mtn-man.

[+PerryClayton]

elegant illustrations

 

LOL... sorry about that. I was in a hurry, and that was easy.

[+9Key]

Why in heck would someone place a cache there? Seems like that's just asking for trouble.

[+sbell111]

Why in heck would someone place a cache there? Seems like that's just asking for trouble.

Like the man said, it might be the cache owner's land. Either way, we can't really judge the location with only one small view of it.

[+wimseyguy]

Is it on this side of the fence? (Looks like a yes.)

Would you happen to know who owns the land behind it?

 

Feel free to email me with more details if you would like. Just click my name. Thanks for the heads up in any case, PC. I was good to meet you a couple of weeks ago.

 

The cache was attached to the fence itself. The cache description does indeed say that there is no need to trespass or violate the posted restrictions. I do not know who owns the land (for all I know the cache placer could be the owner).

 

I just know it made us a bit nervous... but we did log the find . (Without crossing the fence).

 

It was good to meet you too mtn-man.

If the cache page states clearly that there is no reason to cross into the posted land, then I wouldn't have any problems with it. Yes, GPS readings can vary by up to 30', and not everyone reads the cache page before setting out, but I think the cache owner has done their due dillegence on this one.

[+Wander Lost]

My parents house borders a State Park. (you actually have to drive through the park to get to their house) they often got people ignoring thier fence and small private property signs and riding their bikes or hiking down their driveway until they saw the house and realized they'd made a mistake. They have since put up some more obvious signs indicating that this is now private property, but not quite a rudely as the ones in the picture. My point is I can see it being public access land on one side of the fence like a park and being private property on the other side.

 

Is it a silly place for a cache? To each his own, but I don't think it would go on my list of caches I recommend to visiting cachers.

[+The Leprechauns]

If the property owner is that intent on keeping people off their property, why on earth would they give someone permission to place a cache on their gate? That strikes me as odd, and I'd want to inquire further about that. If the gate is owned by the county, that would be different.

[+sbell111]

If Lep posted to this thread, he'd be quick to point out that the cache owner and the land owner may be the same person.

[+mtn-man]

Yeah, *on* the fence sort of bothers me a bit. The fence is most likely part of the private property. If it was on the ground outside of the fence, then there could be some semantic arguments there. I would feel certain that the person trying to keep people out put the fence up, hence it belongs to them and would be private property. Like sbell111 says though, the cache owner and fence owner might be the same person.

[+The Leprechauns]

Like sbell111 says though, the cache owner and fence owner might be the same person.

Oh, did sbell111 say that? A fair point. I hereby modify my post above to take into account that theoretical possibility. But if so, then in light of the signs, a conscientious cache/property owner ought to mention that fact on the cache page.

Edited July 24, 2006 by The Leprechauns

[+briansnat]

If Lep posted to this thread, he'd be quick to point out that the cache owner and the land owner may be the same person.

 

He makes no mention of it on his cache page. Most land owners would, or at least should.

 

The cache certainly pushed the envelope. I wonder if it might not really be on private property. Fences are often placed slightly inside the property line, not directly on it. I wonder what the property owner would have to say say if he were to pull up and find his gate blocked and a geocacher searching next to his fence.

 

Makes you wonder what the cache owner was thinking. There has to be a better spot for a cache in the area.

Edited July 24, 2006 by briansnat

[+crystalndave]

I was trying to get a cache publihed on property owned by my father who had given permission for me to place it there. He has 20 acres. The cache container was made out of a posted sign itself but not signed (it was supposed to be a comical hide). I was denied due to the land being posted both because of the sign(which I have seen in another forum that someone else has done) and because there are other posted signs 30-40 feet away(if any of you are reviewers and would contact me directly I would love some help, I still would like to find a way to do this but I don't want to be a whiner).

 

Of course I was at a lovely cache yesterday which stated basically to ignore the posted signs and go on up because there was permission given.

[+Planet]

The signs are enough to make me turn away from looking for it, and at $3.29 a gallon for gas, I'd be disappointed that I was even brought there.

[+briansnat]

I was trying to get a cache publihed on property owned by my father who had given permission for me to place it there. He has 20 acres. The cache container was made out of a posted sign itself but not signed (it was supposed to be a comical hide). I was denied due to the land being posted both because of the sign(which I have seen in another forum that someone else has done) and because there are other posted signs 30-40 feet away(if any of you are reviewers and would contact me directly I would love some help, I still would like to find a way to do this but I don't want to be a whiner).

 

Of course I was at a lovely cache yesterday which stated basically to ignore the posted signs and go on up because there was permission given.

 

That doesn't sound right. Are you sure there aren't other issues that you are not mentioning? There is no guideline that prevents caches on posted land as long as there is permission.

[+NotThePainter]

I see nothing wrong with it. I don't get what all the fuss is about. NOWHERE in the Guidelines do I see anything about placing caches near flying blue and red arrows.

 

:- )

 

Paul

[+The Herd]

I see nothing wrong with it. I don't get what all the fuss is about. NOWHERE in the Guidelines do I see anything about placing caches near flying blue and red arrows.

 

:- )

 

Paul

 

[rbrugman]

Sounds like one of the caches I went to find. The cache was not on private property, but the coordinates were 100 feet off due to very heavy tree cover. After walking around on the wrong sign of the river for almost an hour a couple prison guards came to greet me and my brother and told us that it wasn't a huge deal but that the side of the river we were on was prison property. About 30 feet down river there was a sign so I guess we would have figured it out anyway....

 

The moral of the story is that I stay away from that kind of location even if it means not finding the cache.

 

This one is a little more intriguing since there are a LOT of signs posted in a small area. If the cache is on the border of the area that's one thing, but if it is over the fence, I think it would be great if someone asked the land owner for permission first.

[+PerryClayton]

I see nothing wrong with it. I don't get what all the fuss is about. NOWHERE in the Guidelines do I see anything about placing caches near flying blue and red arrows.

 

:- )

 

Paul

 

There should be though... just wait until someone gets poked in the eye.

[+PerryClayton]

This one is a little more intriguing since there are a LOT of signs posted in a small area.

 

Here's an update. I just revisited the cache page, and there is one picture in its gallery.

 

Here it is.

 

 

It seems to me that these signs were placed at some point after the cache. It almost makes you wonder whether cachers are the REASON for the signs... or at least a contributing factor. Had I looked at that picture before, I would probably have never visited the cache location.

[+Renegade Knight]

Yeah, *on* the fence sort of bothers me a bit. The fence is most likely part of the private property. If it was on the ground outside of the fence, then there could be some semantic arguments there. I would feel certain that the person trying to keep people out put the fence up, hence it belongs to them and would be private property. Like sbell111 says though, the cache owner and fence owner might be the same person.

 

Fences are interesting things. If you build it solo, then you would need to built it 100% within your property which would give me as your neighbor free use of a small strip of your land. However you get to tell me that I can't hang anything on your fence. Some fences straddle the property line. Usually becasue both land owners agreed to the fence and in this case each owner gets to mess with the fence. When nobody knows what the deal is you assume the fence is half one owner and half the other. So on the legal side the cache would be good.

 

If the guy was a dip and built his fence outside his property, well, the cache is good in that case as well.

[+Renegade Knight]

This one is a little more intriguing since there are a LOT of signs posted in a small area.

 

Here's an update. I just revisited the cache page, and there is one picture in its gallery.

 

Here it is.

 

 

It seems to me that these signs were placed at some point after the cache. It almost makes you wonder whether cachers are the REASON for the signs... or at least a contributing factor. Had I looked at that picture before, I would probably have never visited the cache location.

 

anyone can post their property at an time for any reason, becuse of, in spite of, or to annoy cachers in the proximity. A posted property only applies to the propety posted. The property next to it can be free access. You should feel free to fish, camp, picnic, geocache, or whatever is valid right up to that "No Tresspassing" sign. It's the other side of the sign that's the problem.

 

In Idaho more than a few people use No Tresspassing signs on land they don't own to extend their power er... privacy to areas that are not theirs to post. Also it's been pointed out that if you have permission you can ignore the signs.

 

A Case in Point. My family has land that surrounds a hydro facility. The hydro folks have posted the gate that allows access to their facility and our land. We own the gate, the road, and all around thier facility. You can ignore their sign because it's something they posted enitrly to make themselves feel better and not becuase they have the right. Making it even more complex this same road allows access to another persons land who has posted their land, but that road goes on to more of our land. It's a patchwork. If that person gave permission then that permission would extend to the use of the road on our land and vice versa.

[+sbell111]

This one is a little more intriguing since there are a LOT of signs posted in a small area.

Here's an update. I just revisited the cache page, and there is one picture in its gallery.

 

Here it is.

 

<SNIP>

 

It seems to me that these signs were placed at some point after the cache. It almost makes you wonder whether cachers are the REASON for the signs... or at least a contributing factor. Had I looked at that picture before, I would probably have never visited the cache location.

It seems like a great spot for CITO.