Junk In Caches - Vent

[+Kacky]

We leave the entire, brand new, fresh box of crayons. 9 cents at Staples this week, 10 cents at Walmart 2 weeks ago.

You'd be surprised how many people will break up a box of crayons even if it cost 9 cents!

[+Blue Power Ranger]

We leave the entire, brand new, fresh box of crayons. 9 cents at Staples this week, 10 cents at Walmart 2 weeks ago.

You'd be surprised how many people will break up a box of crayons even if it cost 9 cents!

 

The only thing I would be concerned about with crayons - other than if animals can smell them is the heat right now. I would think they would be melting right now.

[+InHope]

My wife and I usually just leave a Homie, and take some worthless piece of swag as well. I did take a plastic gorilla once and left a free am/fm radio w/batteries once...but the radio was free so it's not like it was anything special. I guess I'm not really familiar yet with what's good, because out here it seems like all of the caches we've done just have little figurines...pencils, etc. I've not yet come upon anything really useful, just stuff to remind me of the acual hunt...which for me has been pretty nice.

[+edscott]

I really don't care what's there as long as there is a reasonably good log to sign, but I carry a variety of stuff to trade and trade according to what I find. If a cache is full of trash I replace it with some good stuff. Some people don't do it this way and nothing said here will change that.

[+cachefam59]

We just figured out what CITO means - we were in Maine last week and found two caches with CITO Kits - rubber gloves and plastic bags in a little film canister. We thought they were for poop scooping - I guess in a way they are.

 

I still haven't heard back from Groundspeak - but I will post their response when I do. I just can't imagine giving up on this when it's clear most people feel the same way. If we can just affect a small percentage it would help.

 

Oh - when we were looking at our Maine caches someone wrote in their description that they were challenging people to trade up the swag in the cache - maybe we need to edit our descriptions to include the words "If you only have junk to trade, please TNLN" or whatever. We never hit that cache so weren't able to see if his challenge worked.

 

I cannot imagine someone breaking up a 9 cent box of fresh, clean crayons - that is beyond cheap. I think I will have to hit some caches in NJ to get those calculators!

 

Maybe an ongoing thread with good places to find good stuff cheeeep.....

[+Wild Thing 73]

Hello - We are relatively new to geocaching but have gone gung ho into it and really do enjoy it. I know this has been covered before but I wanted to state how disappointing it is to see the complete and total junk that has been placed in some of these. We geocache with teens and often bring their friends along, and while it's obviously universally agreed to that one needn't put the entire contents of Best Buy into a cache, a small, quality and fun find really enhances it. In my limited experience I have cleaned junk out of some of these and tossed it because I feel it's an insult to the cacher and to the cacher that took the time to place the cache. And - the kids get bummed when the contents of the find are 1/2 a notch above true trash. We bring adult and kid oriented items (well, nothing REALLY adult oriented, LOL).

 

When we hit the trail we take a few items along to trade so what we leave is appropriate for the cache itself. While we have 16 years of McDonald's toys, we spent an hour going through to accumulation to determine what was worth putting in a cache and what was worth finally throwing away. Everything else we place is from the job lot store, or from other stores where we find a great deal and add it to our stash.

 

I just don't understand why so many cachers think it's okay to put junk in there. I know there's no way to monitor it - but perhaps when signing up for a premium membership it should be underscored in the agreement - just so it's emphasized and understood that a little thoughtfulness goes a long way. Of all the things we have learned about this sport, this is the only true disappointment.

 

Thanks for the place to vent - any attempts to make me feel better are appreciated!

Plow thru the junk and sign logbook> SL TN replaced junk

["Paws"itraction]

What do you consider junk. I for one can't afford to keep up with the Jones'. I thank the fun is in the hunt, not cache. A lot of other people must thank the same way, look it all of the mirco caches. A cache is a cache.

 

Lets see. I've found filthy work gloves with holes in the fingers, a dirty diaper cover, losing scratch-off lottery tickets, sunglasses missing a lens or an earpiece, a rusty pocket knife with the blade snapped off, a used baseball cap complete with sweat stains, metrocards with no rides left, unidentifiable bits of plastic, rusty key rings, grocery store receipts, random stones picked up on the way in and an empty mini bottle of vodka. That's the kinds of stuff that belogs in a garbage can.

The weirdest thing I have ever found in one of my caches was a handful of water softener salt pellets, left in a wilderness cache by a (rarely active) local cacher who was apparently a local law enforcement officer. He left a note in the logbook saying that he had found the "pretty gemstones" in an area of the trailhead parking lot used as a dump. Well, those pretty gemstones were really just water softener pellets, dumped by an illegal dumper in the parking lot, along with about a hundred pounds of household waste.

 

As for the general topic of junk in caches: it has been aside a million times before by others, but here it is once again: caches which accumulate junk, are, over 95% of the time, caches which are easily accessible to families with children. Caches which maintain excellent swag quality over the years, are, about 95% of the time, caches which are so extreme (i.e., high Terrain rating, long hike, steep climb, deep cave, etc.) or so difficult (i.e., high Difficulty rating due to being a very difficult puzzle) that familis with children cannot reach them. I have personally found this "rule" to be true about 98% of the time, but I have heard from others of a few exceptions, and most folks whom I know seem agreed that about 95% of the variance accounting for presence of junk swag in caches may be laid at the feet of families with children. This is not to say that all families with children leave junk swag, but enough of them do that it can quickly degrade quality of cache swag in a matter of weeks. And, this current thread is harfly the first thread where this fact has been raised -- I have seen it discussed in several previous threads on the topic.

 

BTW, the factor discussed above is one of many reasons why I decided, when I was six years old, that when I grew up I would never have children, and I have stayed true to that promise throughout my life to date; in any case, I must admit that due to my family heritage, my genes are so bizarre that the government has offered me a small monthly stipend to ensure that I never procreate. This problem with junk swag in caches is also one reason why some countries aggressively promote the concept of limiting the birth rate.

 

May I post a brag about one of our caches along with a THANK YOU to our local DNR? Thanks, I think I will.

One of our caches, Second Nature: MUSHROOMS!, highlighted Vinnie's rule. It used to, anyway. It was very accessible to children and families, because we really wanted to use it to highlight the Nature Center it was hidden behind - a "Virtual-with-an-ammo-can" kind of cache. It's been used as an "intro to caching" cache by several people, found by many people camping at the Campground in Pokagon State Park, and overall has had a lot of success and visits. Unfortunately, the "swag quality" did (and does) tend to degrade over time. We try to keep it stocked with "good stuff", especially stuff that will appeal to kids, but this does lead to "trade-downs". Even though the kids may not realize it - as mentioned above, sometimes kids think they're trading a real prize, not realizing that their cherished Favorite Matchbox Car (or whatever) that's being traded in for a deck of cards, a pack of mini-lightsticks, and a set of "fun straws" isn't really a fair trade and will be seen by the next kid as "oh...great...a cheap, old, banged-up car."

We do, therefore, tend to "police" it rather often, trashing out and putting in new stuff.

We haven't had to do that lately, however. Here's why: the Interpretive staff at Pokagon State Park have gotten a FANTASTIC geocaching program together. One of their interpreters holds regular "intro to geocaching" sessions, where he explains how geocaching came about, gives them coordinates for a "REAL GEOCACHE" (that would be our cache), and how to find caches. Our cache is the first spot on the "tour" they go to. (The rest are temporary spots, stuff along the lines of "card stuck to a tree" sort of thing). Once the ammo can is found, he opens it and explains to them the concept of Travel Bugs (ALWAYS record a pickup, ALWAYS put it in another cache and move it along), traveling geocoins (same thing), and "trade even, trade up, or don't trade." Since they've started this program, we've seen the contents of that cache stay pretty much even (and sometimes the swag improves!)

(It could be that the Interpretive staff is policing the contents of my cache to make sure it's got some cool stuff in it when they do the programs, and that's why it's been so niftified lately. Dunno. But it sure seems like we're not seeing the usual "rock-pinecone-filthygolfball-advertising-oldlottotickets" contents nearly as much anymore.)

 

I really, really the Interpretive staff at Pokagon State Park.

 

Oh...um... this is for venting about bad swag.

Uh...well...yeah, sorry about that. I'll try to do better next time.

Edited July 24, 2006 by "Paws"itraction

[+Sevilon]

You know, I seem to see the opposite thing around here. The family-friendly caches seem to attract people who really want to maintain the integrity of the cache. Not that there are costly items in them, but I see a lot of new toys and things kids really like.

It's the less family friendly ones that seem to be filled with nothing but free magnets from the bank and used beer coasters from restaurants.

 

Although who knows- maybe that IS good swag to some people. Just as those McD toys aren't considered junk to a 5 year old.

Edited July 24, 2006 by Sevilon

[+queen_ladybug]

We've made a couple of swag buying trips lately and I now have a nice backpack full of diverse items. I think I've spent a total of 15 dollars. When this gets low, I've already got a bunch of Oriental Trading stuff ready to order. I cache with kids and have told them that sometimes the "treasure" won't be that great. Its a great lesson in giving when we get to restock a cache with some really neat stuff like we got to do last weekend. They wanted to put more, but the cache wouldn't hold it. Instead of the next group coming and finding the broken stuff and leftover empty ziplocks, they will find some fun (new) toys, a small compass, and even a TB we had on hand that day. I've got a cache to go back to that was in similar shape, but I didn't have my bag with me that day. I plan on being the cache fairy around here and showing my kids that it isn't always about getting. You have to give sometimes.

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

Best we can do is set a good example and leave better than we find. Trade up or even or not at all.

 

Yeah but if everyone did that, soon no one would be able to afford to trade.

[heckle]

I just don't understand why so many cachers think it's okay to put junk in there. I know there's no way to monitor it - but perhaps when signing up for a premium membership it should be underscored in the agreement - just so it's emphasized and understood that a little thoughtfulness goes a long way. Of all the things we have learned about this sport, this is the only true disappointment.

 

Don't let this discourage you. If you seen actual trash or broken items in a cache, simply take them out! We try and clean out caches of trash when we visit them. We also CITO when we cache. We have also started leaving behind what we call "Portable CITO kits". These are simple a film container (with a label) with a plastic bag in it. If you cache in the central/eastern part of CT you may run into them.

 

Alot of people who cache do it as a hobby and do not want to spend alot of money of "quality" swag. The most that we have spent on a single swag item was like 3 bucks. Mostly we pick up some items that are either usefull in some way or unique. We also try to practice "trade up" where you leave something better than you take.

 

Happy trails!

[+Sevilon]

"Took diamond tennis bracelet. Left stack of $100 bills. SL."

[+Sagefox]

Don't let this discourage you. If you see actual trash or broken items in a cache, simply take them out!

 

Yep! Always. Junk does not need to be in caches and its always helpful to remove it. A couple of paper towels or a rag in your pocket are helpful to remove moisture and mold.

 

This mini-maintenance activity, even if only by a low percentage of cachers, will be far more effective in improving cache appearance than any amount of forum pleas or gc.com front page notices can ever accomplish.

[+Big Max]

I find the 'kids trading down' stuff interesting because most of the junk I have found is stuff you would find in an adult's pocket, a few pennies, a used discount card, a business card, etc.

[+hummingbirdkiss]

so as a very new person if I find crap in a cache such as the already burned birthday candles ..can I just toss them in my garbage bag and haul it out? or is it best to leave real life junk there and let the owner of the cache deal with it? and I am talking real junk not just stuff imho is junk?

 

I am most excited about just finding the spot I am looking for and do not really care about the find ..but it seems to me if there is garbage in or around the cache it would be a nice service to just take it out with me since I already pick up litter as I go anyway?

[+markp99]

..can I just toss them in my garbage bag and haul it out? or is it best to leave real life junk there and let the owner of the cache deal with it?

I "take out the trash" frequently for obvious junk and broken items. I've seen and trashed lots of little plastic bits of broken toys, wet paper, wet stickers, worthless rocks, dirty golfballs, nasty old ziplock bags, etc.

 

I do leave stuff of "marginal" value (to me) as someone else might call these items "trasure".

[+cachefam59]

When we open a cache and everyone goes "Ewwwwwww" it's a pretty big bummer. I'd rather see nothing than garbage!

I love the State Park caching programs - it would be great to see more of that. I may send a suggestion to our town rec department, they're pretty creative.

[+TotemLake]

Reading the logs you can tell who the good cachers are...

 

... they will advise what they took and what they left or they TNLN. With this, you can discern a group of people that don't mention anything. Get to know them and you will then find out who the down traders are. Peer pressure (call it user education) will do more than any written word anywhere.

 

Well not exactly.

 

I don't think I've posted 20% of my trading on cache web pages. My activity is definitely well in the + column for trades, maintenance of other's caches on the road, maintainence of all the vacation caches in our visitor destination home town. But I don't write all of it up. And there have been plenty of forum posts where people state they don't log their cache activity. This sounds like a witch hunt in the making but I know from your posts that you don't intend one.

Thank you. I never intended to start a witch hunt and I did forget to add about those whom don't always log what they do.

 

To clarify the intent of my previous post... Get to know your fellow cachers and from that discern who needs to have the user education applied. This is a social game as much as anything else and some folks need to be nudged just a little bit to do the right thing. Adding rules to the game or additional notes to the cache page do not adequately solve the problem as well as well as some people might think.

 

Happy caching!

[MWsidewing]

We're new to caching too and were disappointed to find the junk. However, we have continued and either take nothing, but leave something "of value" or trade up. We believe, like others here, that its better to set an example. We also carry several different types of items to leave in a cache, so that we have an appropriate item(s) to trade. We have also removed the true garbage when we found it.

 

We have left a couple of things that might not been recogized for what they are, so we leave a note in the plastic bag with the item. One example was a bag with 3 collectible sports cards that were Cracker Jack prizes. They weren't junk. I also sometimes leave vintage stick pins from my stick pin collection along with a note stating any information I have about the pin.

 

There have been comments about those who cache with their kids and I have no problem with kids caching. Its great that this is a family sport. My kids are in their 20's, but would have loved this! I would like to offer this advice to parents based on my observance: I found many of the kids offerings are not put in plastic bags and what was once good for the cache, has become banged up and unwanted. Also, remember that a "kid friendly" cache does not necessarily mean "kid only". I usually try to have a kid oriented item for these caches, but it might be nice to have one of each type when searching for these.

 

Having been a camper for years, M having been a Boy Scout Leader, and our son an Eagle Scout, I would like to think I have the experience to suggest that you leave nothing in a cache with a scent of any kind. Animals will pick up on it, food, perfume, sweat laden clothing (I was thinking of that used hat in an earlier post ) just about any scent.

 

Thanks for letting me add my advice (hopefully it was good or at least not too bad)

W

MWsidewing

[+Mandollyn]

We've made a couple of swag buying trips lately and I now have a nice backpack full of diverse items. I think I've spent a total of 15 dollars. When this gets low, I've already got a bunch of Oriental Trading stuff ready to order. I cache with kids and have told them that sometimes the "treasure" won't be that great. Its a great lesson in giving when we get to restock a cache with some really neat stuff like we got to do last weekend. They wanted to put more, but the cache wouldn't hold it. Instead of the next group coming and finding the broken stuff and leftover empty ziplocks, they will find some fun (new) toys, a small compass, and even a TB we had on hand that day. I've got a cache to go back to that was in similar shape, but I didn't have my bag with me that day. I plan on being the cache fairy around here and showing my kids that it isn't always about getting. You have to give sometimes.

Page 156 of the New catalog! Plastic Mini Collapsible Pens!

They look like little pills!

$4.95 for 24!!! I love them!

[+Sinfire]

Is it possible that there are too many parents out there that are thinking that the caches are for the kids ? I've read a lot of posts where parents are out there with their kids and they let their kids sway items in the cache. This is a big reason why we are getting junk in the caches.

 

Geo-caching should be an adult sport that is geared for people that are at least in their teens. They know the value of items and are usually more responsible when it comes to trading items in a cache. Also, GPS's are expensive toys that are not designed for kids.

 

Before I get flamed for my thoughts....... I am not saying that the kids should not be out there with their parents, bring them along. Let them get fresh air, let them help look, etc. But when it comes to swapping items, that should be left for the adults.

 

This way we won't end up with a cache full of McDonalds toys, junk, or any of the other stuff that this thread is compaining about. And it should help to solve the issue with someone taking an expensive item and replacing it with a 10 cent item.

[+The Leprechauns]

Is it possible that there are too many parents out there that are thinking that the caches are for the kids ? I've read a lot of posts where parents are out there with their kids and they let their kids sway items in the cache. This is a big reason why we are getting junk in the caches.

 

Geo-caching should be an adult sport that is geared for people that are at least in their teens. They know the value of items and are usually more responsible when it comes to trading items in a cache. Also, GPS's are expensive toys that are not designed for kids.

 

Before I get flamed for my thoughts....... I am not saying that the kids should not be out there with their parents, bring them along. Let them get fresh air, let them help look, etc. But when it comes to swapping items, that should be left for the adults.

 

This way we won't end up with a cache full of McDonalds toys, junk, or any of the other stuff that this thread is compaining about. And it should help to solve the issue with someone taking an expensive item and replacing it with a 10 cent item.

My daughter, who has 425 cache finds to your 12, would laugh very hard at your post. Fortunately, she's off at camp, riding horses and sailing on the lake (though not both at the same time). She found our first cache with a GPS, while Dad was trying to figure out how the compass screen worked. She was 8 years old. When she was 9, she got her own GPS. Quite often, she still finds the caches before I do. Once she does, she knows how to trade responsibly. I've raised her to be fearless and independent. She would scoff at your contention that kids are just along to "help."

 

I'm guessing you don't have kids, or haven't been along on a cache hunt with a group of kids. Ever try to rein in three kids under the age of seven who are fighting about who gets the Winnie the Pooh stickers? I have. Responsible parents will correct bad trading decisions. It helps kids learn the relative value of things, and principles like fairness and how giving is better than receiving. I've watched three year olds absorb that lesson with no problem.

 

Geocaching is an ideal sport for kids. If it wasn't for my daughter and my desire to do fun stuff outdoors with her, I'd have never gotten hooked on it. We could all benefit by looking at the world through the eyes of a child when we're out geocaching.

 

I guess my point is, don't generalize. For every kid who throws a fit and insists on taking the yo-yo when mommy doesn't have any trade items, there is a good kid who knows how to trade fairly because his parents taught him that value. I am biased, but I happen to think my daughter has more common sense than a lot of geocachers who are way older than she is.

[+Sevilon]

Is it possible that there are too many parents out there that are thinking that the caches are for the kids ? I've read a lot of posts where parents are out there with their kids and they let their kids sway items in the cache. This is a big reason why we are getting junk in the caches.

 

 

The majority of the caches we have done ARE for the kids (or at least for families), and state so on the webpages.

 

Actually, I think part of the problem is defining junk. There are things I see in caches that I wouldn't want to take, but I see those same things listed in threads like this as recommended items. On the other hand, young kids might love a polished rock or a blank key or whatever things someone else might consider junk.

 

I think it's pretty rotten for people to keep blaming kids or families with kids for what appears to be a petty universal problem across the geocaching community.

[+Zeute]

When caching with my nephew (TheLittleRedheadedCacher, who just turned 3) we have no problem removing old beat up cars and trucks and trading them for something else as that's one of the things he LOVES to find in caches. He's going to play with them in the dirt, throw them in the back of his dump truck and cover them with dirt, wrestle the dog for them and do who knows what else to them. (Thankfully none have gone in the toilet yet!)

 

He usually picks something out worthy of trading too. If he doesn't I just add something else.

 

We don't of course put them back into cycle again but just be aware what you may consider "junk" may look highly ideal to someone else.

 

Please don't judge based on age of cachers, children I'm pretty sure are not alone when caching. As for geocaching being an "adult" sport that would kind of negate the family friendliness of it, would it not? The hunt and the hike are what I enjoy most. While curiousity often has me looking through the swag and trading (although I often trade with the kids in mind) sometimes even when no children are with me it's not what gets me out there. I think the "treasure" is more of an appeal to the children, especially the younger set. I could be wrong, but of course this only an opinion, not a fact.

[wandering360]

I stocked my Travel Bug Hotel with nice things when I first placed it. I found out "REAL" quick to down scale what I restock it with. Someone actually put a limestone rock in the cache one time.

[+TheCarterFamily]

I was reading this and had one thought. "One mans trash is another mans treasure." I've seen $20 spent building a cache that someone said was filled with junk. All I can say is fill it with what you'd like to see in return. Ignore the rest as you can't please everyone! My daughter found a feather in one cache and fell in love with it. Someone obviously just picked it up off the ground... but to her it was treasure and still hangs in her room.

 

Hello - We are relatively new to geocaching but have gone gung ho into it and really do enjoy it. I know this has been covered before but I wanted to state how disappointing it is to see the complete and total junk that has been placed in some of these. We geocache with teens and often bring their friends along, and while it's obviously universally agreed to that one needn't put the entire contents of Best Buy into a cache, a small, quality and fun find really enhances it. In my limited experience I have cleaned junk out of some of these and tossed it because I feel it's an insult to the cacher and to the cacher that took the time to place the cache. And - the kids get bummed when the contents of the find are 1/2 a notch above true trash. We bring adult and kid oriented items (well, nothing REALLY adult oriented, LOL).

 

When we hit the trail we take a few items along to trade so what we leave is appropriate for the cache itself. While we have 16 years of McDonald's toys, we spent an hour going through to accumulation to determine what was worth putting in a cache and what was worth finally throwing away. Everything else we place is from the job lot store, or from other stores where we find a great deal and add it to our stash.

 

I just don't understand why so many cachers think it's okay to put junk in there. I know there's no way to monitor it - but perhaps when signing up for a premium membership it should be underscored in the agreement - just so it's emphasized and understood that a little thoughtfulness goes a long way. Of all the things we have learned about this sport, this is the only true disappointment.

 

Thanks for the place to vent - any attempts to make me feel better are appreciated!

[+Mule Ears]

Our game would have been better off if it had been customary to leave items of no commercial value in caches. I'd rather find interesting but valueless stuff than things I can buy. Here's a list of items I consider good swag:

• an old postcard
  
• somebody's vacation pictures
  
• gum-wrapper origami
  
• coat button
  
• pretty rock
  
• found bone
  
• foreign stamp or coin
  
• kid's original crayon drawing
  
• paper airplane
  
• bottle cap from an obsolete soft drink
  
• ...or any odd or interesting object
  

If kids are unhappy with the contents of a cache because none of the stuff is 'good' enough for them, take it as an early warning that something's going awry with their upbringing.

[+Wile E. Dragonfly]

I personally think the best way to fix the trade issue is education.

 

As was mentioned earlier "the Interpretive staff at Pokagon State Park have gotten a FANTASTIC geocaching program together. One of their interpreters holds regular "intro to geocaching" sessions, where he explains how geocaching came about, gives them coordinates for a "REAL GEOCACHE" (that would be our cache), and how to find caches."

 

Our community has a community education program that teaches everything from Spanish to knitting to intro to the computer. Why not geocaching? Newbies who are interested in the sport will have someone with a bit more experience to mentor them, those who have never heard of the sport may become interested and join in and in the process, we can emphasize the importance of good trades. As the saying goes... "Be the change you want to see". If you want to improve the swag content in local caches, teach a class, offer a seminar at the library, go visit with the boyscouts, hold a local meet -n- greet in your area... There's a ton that WE can do other than complaining about how bad it is.

 

I agree, swag content is kinda sad some times, but for every time I take something (other than a TB) I leave things at 10 other caches. And, rather than add to the amount of stuff out in the world, I buy good swag at garage sales and thrift stores, save unwanted gifts and go treasure hunting in my house... I rarely spend more than 25 cents for an item, but my stuff is nice and in good shape...

 

By the way... is there any way the content of the interpretive program could be posted somewhere as a reference for folks who might want to host a seminar? Might be a good starting point for those who are not entirely sure what to include in a talk...

[Abigail]

Our game would have been better off if it had been customary to leave items of no commercial value in caches. I'd rather find interesting but valueless stuff than things I can buy. Here's a list of items I consider good swag:

• an old postcard
  
• somebody's vacation pictures
  
• gum-wrapper origami
  
• coat button
  
• pretty rock
  
• found bone
  
• foreign stamp or coin
  
• kid's original crayon drawing
  
• paper airplane
  
• bottle cap from an obsolete soft drink
  
• ...or any odd or interesting object
  

If kids are unhappy with the contents of a cache because none of the stuff is 'good' enough for them, take it as an early warning that something's going awry with their upbringing.

 

I agree. I want my kids to learn to enjoy the journey and appreciate the moment. I think it is a wonderful oppurtunity to teach kids what is important (and swag ain't it!).

 

When we do trade, they know to trade even or up. We are not allowed to complain about the contents of the cache. We can leave something nice and take a wonderful memory.

[+fizzymagic]

Best we can do is set a good example and leave better than we find. Trade up or even or not at all.

Yeah but if everyone did that, soon no one would be able to afford to trade.

With people like you in the game, Rob, I'm sure that will never be a problem.

[+Cache'n'Carey]

We leave the entire, brand new, fresh box of crayons. 9 cents at Staples this week, 10 cents at Walmart 2 weeks ago.

 

A bit OT, but don't crayons melt in the summer? I had thought about them because we seem to have a lot of families around here, but thought they might be a better winter item in a frequently-visited cache. I was envisioning ruining the entire cache with melted crayons. Thought the same thing when someone mentioned putting scented candles in the cache.

[+Clyde1140]

I am not a big swag fan, but I always have stuff to leave and I usually leave something and sign the log.

[+mikeylou]

A bit OT, but don't crayons melt in the summer? I had thought about them because we seem to have a lot of families around here, but thought they might be a better winter item in a frequently-visited cache. I was envisioning ruining the entire cache with melted crayons. Thought the same thing when someone mentioned putting scented candles in the cache.

 

If the crayons my son leaves from restaurants in the truck are any indication, I'd say yes, you could have a nice pile of melted wax.

 

Of course, I don't think a box in the woods would have quite the greenhouse effect as a closed truck, so they may be just fine. I think it would all depend on how hot the area is, the container, and location of the hide.

 

Put them in a baggie and they shouldn't ooze on anything else.

 

[And if anyone has any suggestions on how to clean melted crayon from the door of a truck, let me know. We had no idea my son put his crayons in the little door finger thing (what the heck is that called??) and it is now a mass of melted crayon.]

[+JustKeely]

I have so much to say on this topic but I am not sure I will get it all out, being that it is the wee hours of the morning and I've not have much sleep. I am sure it has been posted on many threads, the junk people leave in caches, and I appreciate cachefam59 trying to do something about it. I am not sure what is the best way to fix the problem, and I think many of you have good ideas. Lately I am becoming more and more of a swag advocate - if a cache has terrible/no swag, I try to rectify this by leaving lots from my bag, or at least mention in my log that the cache needs more swag (if I haven't brought enough along) as a plea to the owner or next cacher to help me restock it. I KNOW it is not about the swag BUT it sure feels a lot better to open a cache that has some neat things in it, whether you are trading or not, and it is still a let down to open one that is junked out.

I do cache with kids a lot and took a little offense to what Vinny was saying. I think that if the caches that are visited a lot by families with kids are mostly the ones with junk swag, that is a real shame but may have more to do with the accessiblity of these caches and not the kid issue - if we trade, the kids are allowed to chose something out of my bag to trade with, and I don't bring junk swag - I am always on the lookout for something relatively inexpensive to use for swag, don't bring junk - and what the kids are interested in trading FOR is about equivalent to what we leave.

I do think that the high level of junk in caches has taken away the interest my 6 year old has in caching, which has really disappointed me, because although we all sometimes go as a family, usually I am going with the kids when the hubby is at work, and I think it is a great activity for us to do together. It is better than watching TV, it gets us out of the house, we are doing something physical, we find beautiful places we have never seen before, it gives us a chance to explore nature together, it uses up his boundless store of energy in a way that I can really enjoy. While we don't cache just for the swag, it was initially a big draw for my son because it was like finding "treasure" in the woods (or whatever we were), but after a few bad swag finds, he was less and less motivated, and now acts reluctant to go = "what's the point, there is never anything good in there, it's just a bunch of junk, no treasure" and if I try to recruit friends to come along, he tries to talk them out of it : "It's not as fun as it sounds, there's nothing good inside the caches", which I find disappointing b/c 1) I have the FEVER and this is what I want to do and 2) it gives us a mission, a reason, a motivation, for getting outside and going somewhere.

As far as local peer pressure as a solution goes, I don't really know how that would work. How are you going to get to know those people and apply said pressure? The only way I get to meet other cachers is at events (and if they are involved enough to go to events, I would assume they feel the same way I do about junk swag), or through email correspondence, which on my end only happens when we are talking about travel bugs/coiins/something particularly interesting about a cache, and I don't see how it could come up - "hey, I notice you leave pretty crappy swag, you might want to work on that" = I just don't see that happening and the only way I see peer pressure as a solution is by modeling good behavior - making log notes about what you traded for, what you found in the cache that you liked, what you left, etc = I always read the last five logs at least before I go look for a cache and so comments about the cache contents I always take into consideration when packing my bag for an adventure.

That is just my two cents and hopefully now the baby will go back to sleep

[tinsleyhp]

I am a newbie. I've only been playing for a few weeks. My son and I love it. But this is our biggest complaint. we love the search but I as an adult and he as a 15 year old rarely take anything because of the usesless crap left behind. We decided to place our first cache with the idea of solving the problem by making it a semi-themed cache and adding a few trinkets for the junk traders. see Sci-Fi river GCX8NE.

[+cachefam59]

If kids are unhappy with the contents of a cache because none of the stuff is 'good' enough for them, take it as an early warning that something's going awry with their upbringing.

 

Hey you know what? As the person who started this thread I have read a lot of interesting, thoughtful and productive responses, but I REALLY take offense at the quote above. It's a perfect example of someone making presumptions. So, at the risk of sounding volatile, and speaking for many other parents on this thread who will also take offense, I will say HOW DARE YOU, MULE EARS!!! You do not have any place to make presumptions about how anyone is bringing up their kids when you know nothing about them.

 

This issue is more of a reflection on this who disrespect what we are doing by putting trash into caches rather than leaving nothing - as I have said repeatedly, we are not looking for BMWs in the caches, but we are offended when someone's empty candy wrapper is sitting in there. Perhaps you should comment on the upbringing of those people? Perhaps you should read, in detail, the comments of the parents here, before you make a judgemental statement like that one!

 

Ugh - flame me all you want, this one was over the top!

[+boda]

Oh my!

[+NeverSummer]

Back on thread... (but I agree, "How rude!")

 

I had a pretty bad string of caches lately. They should have fallen under the "harder to get to, better swag" plan, but, alas, that was not the case.

 

On that caching day I decided that I will carry a bag of swag I feel like leaving ("decent" stuff), and only trade even or up with what I have with me. This way I know that I won't just leave something to leave something, and not trade just to trade. Most caches I now sign TNLN, as I have McToys and old broken keyrings on the bottom of my want list. Part of the game out here, as far as I can tell.

 

Oh well; I like the hunt more, anyhow.

[+Mule Ears]

If kids are unhappy with the contents of a cache because none of the stuff is 'good' enough for them, take it as an early warning that something's going awry with their upbringing.

 

Hey you know what? As the person who started this thread I have read a lot of interesting, thoughtful and productive responses, but I REALLY take offense at the quote above. It's a perfect example of someone making presumptions. So, at the risk of sounding volatile, and speaking for many other parents on this thread who will also take offense, I will say HOW DARE YOU, MULE EARS!!! You do not have any place to make presumptions about how anyone is bringing up their kids when you know nothing about them.

 

This issue is more of a reflection on this who disrespect what we are doing by putting trash into caches rather than leaving nothing - as I have said repeatedly, we are not looking for BMWs in the caches, but we are offended when someone's empty candy wrapper is sitting in there. Perhaps you should comment on the upbringing of those people? Perhaps you should read, in detail, the comments of the parents here, before you make a judgemental statement like that one!

 

Ugh - flame me all you want, this one was over the top!

 

I have no intention of flaming you, nor did I intend to provoke such a strong response. If the contents of a cache have truly gone bad, it's a bummer for anyone looking to trade. Undeniable and granted. But I think there's way too much emphasis on the value of cache swag. And the kids I've observed caching are generally less offended by some of the low-value items in caches than the adults are. But there are also kids (and adults) who are awfully attuned to the material value of cache contents, and it says nothing good about them. I won't back down from that, whether it offends somebody or not, because it's simply true.

 

It's quite possible that many of the kids and adults who are overly concerned about swag value and the ones that leave caches worse off by trading down are, in many cases, one and the same! Think about it--someone had to remove the good stuff, otherwise there'd be good stuff plus junk instead of just junk.

 

Sorry if my non-sugar-coated statement offended you, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with being "judgemental." That's what this thread is about--you've judged, correctly, that's it's rotten and unfair for people to remove good swag and leave trash.

 

Final thought. Cache is popped open and two kids look inside. One says, "Aww, there's nuthin' good in here. The other says, "That's OK, I had fun." You finish the story.

[MWsidewing]

I added my thoughts in an earlier post, but I've got to say, there seems to be a lot of talk here about kids, and kids caching. I thought the real problem was people, kids and adults, leaving junk in caches. Junk meaning true garbage, such as candy wrappers, tissues, etc. and also trade items that are broken, battered, or pretty valueless to just about everyone.

 

I think this is a problem for kids and adults when they find a cache full of junk. My husband and I don't always trade when we find a cache because sometimes it is just fun to find it and we don't expect every cache to hold a treasure to "fit" us.

 

I don't know about some of the hostility to kids and parents here, but as I suggested before, when you cache with your kids, try to remember that not everyone who caches a "kid friendly" cache is a kid or any other cache for that matter. Reading some of these posts, you get the feeling that those without kids don't want "kid stuff" left in the caches and parents caching with kids don't think about leaving anything, but toys" Don't flame me, I know that's exaggerating, but it kind of gets my point across.

 

If we can't aggree on what SHOULD go in a cache, how are we going to get people to keep the junk out?

 

W

[+briansnat]

If kids are unhappy with the contents of a cache because none of the stuff is 'good' enough for them, take it as an early warning that something's going awry with their upbringing.

 

Hey you know what? As the person who started this thread I have read a lot of interesting, thoughtful and productive responses, but I REALLY take offense at the quote above. It's a perfect example of someone making presumptions. So, at the risk of sounding volatile, and speaking for many other parents on this thread who will also take offense, I will say HOW DARE YOU, MULE EARS!!! You do not have any place to make presumptions about how anyone is bringing up their kids when you know nothing about them.

 

This issue is more of a reflection on this who disrespect what we are doing by putting trash into caches rather than leaving nothing - as I have said repeatedly, we are not looking for BMWs in the caches, but we are offended when someone's empty candy wrapper is sitting in there. Perhaps you should comment on the upbringing of those people? Perhaps you should read, in detail, the comments of the parents here, before you make a judgemental statement like that one!

 

Ugh - flame me all you want, this one was over the top!

 

I have no intention of flaming you, nor did I intend to provoke such a strong response. If the contents of a cache have truly gone bad, it's a bummer for anyone looking to trade. Undeniable and granted. But I think there's way too much emphasis on the value of cache swag. And the kids I've observed caching are generally less offended by some of the low-value items in caches than the adults are. But there are also kids (and adults) who are awfully attuned to the material value of cache contents, and it says nothing good about them. I won't back down from that, whether it offends somebody or not, because it's simply true.

 

It's quite possible that many of the kids and adults who are overly concerned about swag value and the ones that leave caches worse off by trading down are, in many cases, one and the same! Think about it--someone had to remove the good stuff, otherwise there'd be good stuff plus junk instead of just junk.

 

Sorry if my non-sugar-coated statement offended you, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with being "judgemental." That's what this thread is about--you've judged, correctly, that's it's rotten and unfair for people to remove good swag and leave trash.

 

Final thought. Cache is popped open and two kids look inside. One says, "Aww, there's nuthin' good in here. The other says, "That's OK, I had fun." You finish the story.

 

The disappointed look on my 4 year old nephew's face was quite noticeable when we opened the cache to find rusty key rings, supermarket receipts, used Chapstick and like items. I assure you that he is being well reared, but to a 4 year old out who is on a "treasure hunt", finding a garbage filled container is understandably disappointing.

[+Sagefox]

If we can't agree on what SHOULD go in a cache, how are we going to get people to keep the junk out?

 

Clearly, we are not going to get people to "keep the junk out". That is an impossible task. This experiment is over five years running and has produced enough statistical evidence to prove that no change will be forthcoming.

 

But what we can do, that would be VERY effective, is remove junk from every cache we visit. Launch a major campaign: Remove The Junk As You Go. CITO the inside of each container we open. It takes less than a minute at each cache.

 

The more of us that do that, the cleaner the containers will be. Junk along roadsides attracts more junk. Junk begets junk. People see junk in a cache and they might just add more. They might be thinking, it's such a junky cache why put something good in it.

[Fiona Eliza & Florence]

I love the idea of the cache fairy.

 

I like to live my life my the moto "be proud".

 

Whether you can afford to swap expensive stuff or choose to put in something of no monetary value, have pride in your choice.

 

The caches I have found so far have been full of crap, but hey, thats not the game I am choosing to play so I trash out and put in cheap toys or other bargain items.

 

Maybe in life this is one of the nicer things I do. If it gives some kid, or adult, a smile then thats cool by me.

 

If what goes around does actually eventually come around then I may get my reward, until then my pride is enough.

 

(This makes me sound like a loon, oh well)

[+cachefam59]

Thanks to the posters who are avoiding mudslinging and Dr. Phil-type analyses of ppl they don't know, and are sharing their thoughts and observations in a positive manner. I do believe I have come up with an idea that we will use and perhaps others will adopt, more on that later.

 

Mule, here's a response to your last Dr. Phil-ism: Final thought. Cache is popped open and two kids look inside. One says, "Aww, there's nuthin' good in here. The other says, "That's OK, I had fun." You finish the story.

 

Okay, I'll finish the story. For the kid that says "Aww, there's nuthin' good in here." Well, then they cross their arms, stomp their feet all the way back to the car, sit there with a nasty look on their faces, burst into tears, and the Mommy and Daddy, who are doing a terrible job of child rearing by taking them caching and building them up for $100 bills in the caches, take them to Best Buy and get them wide screen televisions, new Ipod attachments, new digicams and cellphones to make up for the terrible disappointment of caching and finding "nuthin' good" in them. Works?

 

Now that this rant is behind me, I have come up with a small way to try and work this problem of trash (as perceived by BOTH children and adults) in caches: I am going to print up, on plain old paper, biz card size notes (8 to a page) and then cut them into biz card size, saying something to the effect of trying to keep trash out of caches, to practice CITO, and trade even or trade up or LNTN if nothing available. Worded nicely, haven't come up with that yet, need to make sure not to offend or imply that $$$$ items need to be in there. We'll toss them in our geopack and put them into caches as we go. We really don't do as much in volume as others, but perhaps others will adopt this idea and maybe, just maybe, it will have a small impact and will be a grass roots way to maintain the cleanliness, appropriateness and respectfulness of caches. It would also be a good idea, maybe, to include a small note like this when placing caches. Key is in the wording, again, has to be tactful. Will work on that another time.

[+Kacky]

Thanks to the posters who are avoiding mudslinging and Dr. Phil-type analyses of ppl they don't know, and are sharing their thoughts and observations in a positive manner. I do believe I have come up with an idea that we will use and perhaps others will adopt, more on that later.

 

Mule, here's a response to your last Dr. Phil-ism: Final thought. Cache is popped open and two kids look inside. One says, "Aww, there's nuthin' good in here. The other says, "That's OK, I had fun." You finish the story.

 

Okay, I'll finish the story. For the kid that says "Aww, there's nuthin' good in here." Well, then they cross their arms, stomp their feet all the way back to the car, sit there with a nasty look on their faces, burst into tears, and the Mommy and Daddy, who are doing a terrible job of child rearing by taking them caching and building them up for $100 bills in the caches, take them to Best Buy and get them wide screen televisions, new Ipod attachments, new digicams and cellphones to make up for the terrible disappointment of caching and finding "nuthin' good" in them. Works?

 

Now that this rant is behind me, I have come up with a small way to try and work this problem of trash (as perceived by BOTH children and adults) in caches: I am going to print up, on plain old paper, biz card size notes (8 to a page) and then cut them into biz card size, saying something to the effect of trying to keep trash out of caches, to practice CITO, and trade even or trade up or LNTN if nothing available. Worded nicely, haven't come up with that yet, need to make sure not to offend or imply that $$$$ items need to be in there. We'll toss them in our geopack and put them into caches as we go. We really don't do as much in volume as others, but perhaps others will adopt this idea and maybe, just maybe, it will have a small impact and will be a grass roots way to maintain the cleanliness, appropriateness and respectfulness of caches. It would also be a good idea, maybe, to include a small note like this when placing caches. Key is in the wording, again, has to be tactful. Will work on that another time.

 

Please laminate the note or you will be adding to the trash!

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I usually only trade sig items. That way I know at least some thought went into the contents.

[panther-cacher]

I can think of 2 reasons that some caches may contain "junk". 1. one mans trash is another mans treasure. 2. what does trade up mean? Here is my opion from a similar thread:

I think some of the problems with the contents of caches is the understanding of "trade up" . People look at it from different view points. They hear or read about a red paper clip being traded up for more valueable items and ending up with a house. If I trade a penny for a dime, I could have traded up (more for me) instead of traded down (less for the other trader). Maybe some people think that trading up is similar to being up at a casino, you have more when you leave than you did when you got there. My mother always told me to return what you borrowed in the same or better condition, and to leave things the same or nicer than you found them. I know I leave most caches better stocked after I have found them, but I don't trade every time. Maybe this should be made crystal clear so there is no room for confusion.

[+geomann1]

First - when I cache solo I never trade, just sign the book, as there is seldom anything in a cache that I want. However, my kinds love the treasure hunt, and as has been experience of others, in the last several all they found was junk.

 

Second - geocaching has attracted a wide spectrum of people, including some thoughtless low lifes (fortunately still a small %). This extends well beyond swag. I'm talking of vandalism in pursuit of the find. For example, I recently came upon a cache in which someone had disconnected two sprinkler heads. Nevermind trampling the vegetation. Junk is junk and people know it when they place it in a cache.

 

Third - In my opinion, the cache owner has a responsibility to check on and refresh the cache. It would be nice if this was not necessary. I stocked my two "big ones" as my kids say, with some nice stuff and intend to see to it that they stay in a condition. My other 7 are all micros. Although I am relatively new to geocaching and cache placing, I take pride in my caches and will keep an eye on them and maintain them. It would be embarassing to me for people to find them full of junk. I think a big part of the problem is that caches will naturally degrade towards junk boxes if left on their own.

[+racatv]

So should we when we find a really junky cache take the junk out? I always leave nice stuff. I also find that the junk even looks junkier and dirtier when it's been bashed around in the cache. I use a small plastic bag when an item fits in it to keep it cleaner. I'm new to this but I also find it disappointing to not find anything to trade.

[+michigansnorkelers]

The trash problem is really embarrasing when introducing geocaching to a newbie.

 

To solve the problem, I try to look for recently placed caches. Hopefully, they still contain enough of the nice swag that the owner placed originally. I've found some REALLY nice swag this way, and always try to trade even or better.