Junk In Caches - Vent

July 22, 2006

Hello - We are relatively new to geocaching but have gone gung ho into it and really do enjoy it. I know this has been covered before but I wanted to state how disappointing it is to see the complete and total junk that has been placed in some of these. We geocache with teens and often bring their friends along, and while it's obviously universally agreed to that one needn't put the entire contents of Best Buy into a cache, a small, quality and fun find really enhances it. In my limited experience I have cleaned junk out of some of these and tossed it because I feel it's an insult to the cacher and to the cacher that took the time to place the cache. And - the kids get bummed when the contents of the find are 1/2 a notch above true trash. We bring adult and kid oriented items (well, nothing REALLY adult oriented, LOL).

When we hit the trail we take a few items along to trade so what we leave is appropriate for the cache itself. While we have 16 years of McDonald's toys, we spent an hour going through to accumulation to determine what was worth putting in a cache and what was worth finally throwing away. Everything else we place is from the job lot store, or from other stores where we find a great deal and add it to our stash.

I just don't understand why so many cachers think it's okay to put junk in there. I know there's no way to monitor it - but perhaps when signing up for a premium membership it should be underscored in the agreement - just so it's emphasized and understood that a little thoughtfulness goes a long way. Of all the things we have learned about this sport, this is the only true disappointment.

Thanks for the place to vent - any attempts to make me feel better are appreciated!

Edited July 22, 2006 by cachefam59

July 22, 2006

We just about got through a week without Swag Angst. Almost.

Edited July 22, 2006 by Yamahammer

July 22, 2006

I agree - but I also figure that we can complain all we want or do something about it. I have put together a ton of nice swag that I intend to put in all the caches I can find that have room. If someone puts in junk - well - hopefully another geocacher will do what we do - put in nice stuff.

I also have put together a number of very nice kid caches that I am going to hide and name them appropriately. I figure I will keep having to put stuff in them - but we have a local Marcs store that has awesome kid toys for a couple dollars - transformers, puzzles, cool girlie things - I just went and stocked up on them. yes it cost a bit of money - but my kids are all excited - more about putting stuff in now than taking it out.

If we all get in the mood - just think of the possibilities!

I also bought a bunch of geocoins on ebay - figure putting them in too - activate them - hopefully they wont all get picked up and kept.....

I will remain hopeful!

Crunchberry

July 22, 2006

I left a "Million dollar bill" in the final of a 6 stage multi today. Looks pretty real too ! LOL

38.2k · July 22, 2006

Its been a problem since day 1 I think. Some people seem to think caches are garbage cans. I'm often amazed at the garbage that I've found in caches. If it's garbage trash it, don't cache it. Hey, I like that.

Edited July 22, 2006 by briansnat

18.9k · July 22, 2006

Best we can do is set a good example and leave better than we find. Trade up or even or not at all.

July 22, 2006

If it's garbage trash it, don't cache it.

I like it too and envision a CITO (or similar) contest-winning phrase in your future.

Oh yeah, as usual, you're da man, briansnat!

July 22, 2006

Thanks for the nice responses - but to the eyeroller talking about "Swag Angst" - if it's being mentioned every week (or more), then it's obvious it's one of the biggest bummers about this sport. So maybe it is a call to action. Being a doer rather than just a whiner, I think I will make some suggestions directly to "management" about emphasizing what others have written - Best we can do is set a good example and leave better than we find. Trade up or even or not at all"- "If it's garbage trash it, don't cache it" - "If someone puts in junk - well - hopefully another geocacher will do what we do - put in nice stuff". One of the golden rules of caching. Hmmmmmm......it's true we lead by example but some people just don't give a hoot, huh...?

July 22, 2006

That's it - a catch-phrase - or cache-phrase - contest.

July 23, 2006

I hear ya, it can get annoying.

We plan on doing a maintenance run on a few of our caches tomorrow and I am looking forward to seeing what kind of "stuff" is in there...... hopefully it won't be too bad this time......

July 23, 2006

I am getting worried about the geocoins tho - spending 12 - 15$ per coin and plan on activating them. Do people just take them and not let them travel? Luckily all the coins I saw on ebay were unactivated ones - so figure they were for collecting or activating them and placing them in caches. BUT I have seen some posts in this forum about geocoins just taken??

Any thoughts? I dont mind spending 20$ on an entire cache full of toys - figure the kids will love em - but if I am goign to drop 15$ on a coin and then find out the next person just takes it and keeps it for themselves - that kind of bums me out......

What are your experiences with this? Do most coins travel?

Crunchberry

July 23, 2006

What do you consider junk. I for one can't afford to keep up with the Jones'. I thank the fun is in the hunt, not cache. A lot of other people must thank the same way, look it all of the mirco caches. A cache is a cache.

July 23, 2006

I don't think it has anything to do with keeping up with the Jonses. It is more that junk is exactly that - junk. Broken crap, rocks, garbage, something totally worthless - read it in a dictionary. small medallions, pins, something useful - I dont consider that junk. If you cant replace something with equal or better value - then dont take it. Simple as that. That was the first rule on the geocaching site - pretty straight forward I thought.

Just my opinion

Crunchberry

July 23, 2006

Heck, believe me, with college looming and a mortgage and cars and a family to feed, I cannot and don't want to keep up with the Joneses! We love the find, but it's a true letdown when you find garbage. It just seems insulting!

I am extremely frugal - BUT - I am creative and keep my eyes open as I visit stores, etc., for great deals. I have gotten brand new boxes of chalk and crayons for 20 cents, sealed packages of sticky notes for 20 cents, made themed, packaged beading kits for kids for pennies, found mini first aid kits for a quarter, brand new packaged bungee cords for 33 cents and more. I have read many posts where people have listed other great inexpensive items. What do I mean by junk - key chains from someone's local bank, a dirty comb, broken toys, and actual trash - wrappers? Can't ppl find a trash can? Some promotional items - say, an eyeglass visor clip - are useful. I would just like to be thoughtful about the person opening the cache the next time.

If we are creative and adventurous enough to cache, it seems we can certainly be creative, energetic, well meaning and adventurous enough to stock up on some fun - inexpensive - stuff. I eliminated lots of McDonald's Happy Meal junk and just tossed the good stuff into the bag. We were definitely discerning with the McDonald's stuff trying to determine what would still appeal to a kid - but it's fun to find stuff for 20 cents or even 10 cents that we know someone can use! I had some antique coins and an antique coin bracelet that I put in our bag too - for the right cache. My teens loved finding new mini Playdoh - and they are teens! Someone bought a bag full of it and split the bags into the caches. We are still new so I am sure there are many more suggestions, but that has been our experience.

Maybe trying to be thoughtful is the key? I see a lot of thoughtful posts here which makes me respect fellow cachers - and I feel bad for us all if there is junk. It's not about materialism - it's about a nice "hello" from another cacher.

July 23, 2006

Here are two sentences from the "Getting Started" section on the site:

Once found, a cache may provide the visitor with a wide variety of rewards. All the visitor is asked to do is if they get something they should try to leave something for the cache.

It seems the interpretation of those sentences is pretty diverse!

July 23, 2006

OOoh - good ideas! I love the playdoh ones - know exactly which ones your talking about too. I love the micro caches too - just finding them is joy enough I am sure.

My daughter loved the small medallion she found in her first cache - didnt take it - just oohed and aahed over it for a bit.

CB

July 23, 2006

Okay - I just emailed Groundspeak to read this current thread, even though I am sure they have read a ton just like this. But I made some suggestions - as a communications professional I can understand and appreciate their challenges with such a wide population enjoying the sport. Let me take a look in our geocaching backpack and see what else I have in there -

A bunch of unpainted "signature" items that we are going to design and sign

Aforementioned "good" McDonald's toys, bungee cords (all new), first aid kits

Power Bars - oh, never mind, those are mine when out on the trail

Color, holiday and season themed necklace beading kits, packaged and labeled

Aforementioned new crayon and chalk boxes

Mini flashlights and carabeners (sp?)

Brand new, unworn earrings and bracelets that were gifts that aren't "me"
New sticky notes, highlighter (in plastic), rain ponchos (all bought cheeeep)

Okay, so that's just us and we're new. And we're probably on the more kid oriented side as they get to keep all of the stuff in our finds.

38.2k · July 23, 2006

What do you consider junk. I for one can't afford to keep up with the Jones'. I thank the fun is in the hunt, not cache. A lot of other people must thank the same way, look it all of the mirco caches. A cache is a cache.

Lets see. I've found filthy work gloves with holes in the fingers, a dirty diaper cover, losing scratch-off lottery tickets, sunglasses missing a lens or an earpiece, a rusty pocket knife with the blade snapped off, a used baseball cap complete with sweat stains, metrocards with no rides left, unidentifiable bits of plastic, rusty key rings, grocery store receipts, random stones picked up on the way in and an empty mini bottle of vodka. That's the kinds of stuff that belogs in a garbage can.

July 23, 2006

2005 calendars (found one today!)

Broken toys

Dirty, used (by a dog, I think) tennis balls

Those vase stones you can buy a bag of for $.50- we seem to see a lot of people trading one of those for something else. The whole bag- maybe. One? Bah.

On the other hand... I have seen creative geocoins. Paperback children's chapter books. Trivia books. Money. Still-packaged toys. Batteries. Tire gauge. Jewelry. CD's of music. Handmade items.

The junk is unfortunate, and I do agree that the best thing to do is just try and make up for the less desirable items by leaving somehing better.

July 23, 2006

I got over this along time ago.. Now if I ever take any friends I stress to them that it's not about the stuff in the cache.. It's more the signing of the log that I'm after. I do carry swag, but don't often trade my good swag for the junk I find.

2.1k · July 23, 2006

... but to the eyeroller talking about "Swag Angst" - if it's being mentioned every week (or more), then it's obvious it's one of the biggest bummers about this sport. So maybe it is a call to action. Being a doer rather than just a whiner...

What YammerH is talking about, however, is that this is a BIG problem. It is far bigger than a few words of encouragement each week in the forums can overcome. The experiment has been running for six years and the results have not varied.

Everybody here is with you on this - you won't find anyone in the forums that will disagree with you. But... a clear majority of geocachers at any given time are removing good stuff and replacing it with something of slightly to moderately lesser value. This continues step by step until, with few exceptions, the container is left with moldy, soggy, broken, worthless stuff. This happens everywhere. Quickly in the cities and a bit more slowly in rural areas.

People that consistently do this most likely don't read these forum topics. They most likely ignored or forgot the discussion in the published guidelines. They will never hear your concerns but they will consistently take the good stuff you leave and replace it with something a lesser value.

Nearly everyone has done this at least a few times for each 100 caches found. Many of those same people, though, will leave better stuff in 10 caches for each one that they leave something of lesser value. The average of trade quality over a long period of time is what separates a thoughtful cacher from a careless one.

July 23, 2006

I agree with this comment! One man's junk may be another's treasure! And the main fun of cache-ing is just the beauty of the hike and the fun in finding the cache. If everything in the cache has to be very valuable and not just for fun --- well - that takes away from some of the fun. I say if you don't like what is in the cache ---- well, then just don't take any of the stuff. Or better yet, leave something you think is valuable. I say let's not get too picky about what is in the cache. Let's just do cache-ing for the fun of it, and enjoy nature in the process! <_<

What do you consider junk. I for one can't afford to keep up with the Jones'. I thank the fun is in the hunt, not cache. A lot of other people must thank the same way, look it all of the mirco caches. A cache is a cache.

July 23, 2006

I got over this along time ago.. Now if I ever take any friends I stress to them that it's not about the stuff in the cache.. It's more the signing of the log that I'm after. I do carry swag, but don't often trade my good swag for the junk I find.

But aren't you just punishing the next person who comes along? They're not to blame for the AOL disc or the kool-aid scoop.

When I see a rock or a pine cone, I wonder if it's somebody's 2-year-old who thinks they're giving up a real prize. If that's the case, I wish the parent would put it in the log.

Another part of the problem is that some people don't realize what that sticker or card is going to look like the next morning after the inside of the container has condensed and sweated all over everything.

My pet peeve is when someone disses a thread just because they've seen the topic before. <_<

Edited July 23, 2006 by Kacky

July 23, 2006

I know all this has been discussed before but I find it interesting and anyway, "misery" loves company

I don't feel it's a matter of materialism though, like I said the kids don't expect BMWs in the caches (though that would be nice <_< ) but it just seems disrespectful to all of us to find literal garbage in there. I would just as soon upgrade or TNLN than insult the person opening the cache to find junk. And with kids - well let's say my 12 yo "hates" virtuals or micros - because the swag is part of the fun. We love them, it's just the hunt for us - but I don't want to be insulted either.

I will post Groundspeak's reply to my query as soon as I get it - am also going to post a suggestion on the website thread that they might want to really consider something on the opening page about this. Everyone's got to go to that page to find the caches...! so it does seem a powerful tool. Has anyone ever suggested that specifically, I wonder?

3.9k · July 23, 2006

What do you consider junk. I for one can't afford to keep up with the Jones'. I thank the fun is in the hunt, not cache. A lot of other people must thank the same way, look it all of the mirco caches. A cache is a cache.

Lets see. I've found filthy work gloves with holes in the fingers, a dirty diaper cover, losing scratch-off lottery tickets, sunglasses missing a lens or an earpiece, a rusty pocket knife with the blade snapped off, a used baseball cap complete with sweat stains, metrocards with no rides left, unidentifiable bits of plastic, rusty key rings, grocery store receipts, random stones picked up on the way in and an empty mini bottle of vodka. That's the kinds of stuff that belogs in a garbage can.

The weirdest thing I have ever found in one of my caches was a handful of water softener salt pellets, left in a wilderness cache by a (rarely active) local cacher who was apparently a local law enforcement officer. He left a note in the logbook saying that he had found the "pretty gemstones" in an area of the trailhead parking lot used as a dump. Well, those pretty gemstones were really just water softener pellets, dumped by an illegal dumper in the parking lot, along with about a hundred pounds of household waste.

As for the general topic of junk in caches: it has been aside a million times before by others, but here it is once again: caches which accumulate junk, are, over 95% of the time, caches which are easily accessible to families with children. Caches which maintain excellent swag quality over the years, are, about 95% of the time, caches which are so extreme (i.e., high Terrain rating, long hike, steep climb, deep cave, etc.) or so difficult (i.e., high Difficulty rating due to being a very difficult puzzle) that familis with children cannot reach them. I have personally found this "rule" to be true about 98% of the time, but I have heard from others of a few exceptions, and most folks whom I know seem agreed that about 95% of the variance accounting for presence of junk swag in caches may be laid at the feet of families with children. This is not to say that all families with children leave junk swag, but enough of them do that it can quickly degrade quality of cache swag in a matter of weeks. And, this current thread is harfly the first thread where this fact has been raised -- I have seen it discussed in several previous threads on the topic.

BTW, the factor discussed above is one of many reasons why I decided, when I was six years old, that when I grew up I would never have children, and I have stayed true to that promise throughout my life to date; in any case, I must admit that due to my family heritage, my genes are so bizarre that the government has offered me a small monthly stipend to ensure that I never procreate. This problem with junk swag in caches is also one reason why some countries aggressively promote the concept of limiting the birth rate. <_<

July 23, 2006

IF ya don't like whats in there, just Don't take anything. When cachers log my cache and say TNLN, it doesn't offend me. As long as they say TFTC <_<

Edited July 23, 2006 by Hillbilly-Rockstar

July 23, 2006

If I can sign a log and leave a sig card I am happy. Though it would be nice not to have to dig though trash to find the log.

My first find was under another name in 2001. I was amazed at the quality of swag in that cache. Now they are all just junk in my area.

I am working on a multi part puzzle right now and if I ever solve it I will place a small bag of foreign coins for the next finder. I am doing my best to up the quality of swag.

2k · July 23, 2006

Today I logged a cache with took nothing but left an Idaho GeoCoin. I hope that someday some or our fellow cachers will get the hint and trade equal or trade up. Unfortunately the last time I left a coin the next finder traded a quarter for it. I guess he/she had no idea how much those cost to get minted. (Yeah Right). When I cache with kids I have them show me what they are trading for and what they want to trade. I make the final decision on whether it is og equal or better value. If it isn't I will substitute something from my bag. After reading what has been found in caches by some of you I guess I should feel lucky that the worst I see is old McToys.

July 23, 2006

I've been buying 69 cent containers of colored toothpicks. I thought they would be something useful and come in a container that makes a good micro. Also, my badge a minute geo buttons have been going well. I bought a pack of 100 supplies from Ebay and use Microsoft Word to create different caching sayings which are not licensed by any of the button makers. I can make them with different fonts and colors and add webdings. They always seemed to be picked up by the person following me. I also keep several in my own caches and try to make each one a little different. I have a lot of punches and make up little bags of confetti: teddy bears, palm trees, smiley faces, shamrocks, hearts etc. I've found quite a few new things at yard sales for 25 cents. The best was 12 individual packets in a box of Bath & Body Works mosquito wipes. I'm sure these were very expensive but the box said 25 cents so I've been passing them out in caches. <_<

22k · July 23, 2006

I've been buying 69 cent containers of colored toothpicks. I thought they would be something useful and come in a container that makes a good micro. Also, my badge a minute geo buttons have been going well. I bought a pack of 100 supplies from Ebay and use Microsoft Word to create different caching sayings which are not licensed by any of the button makers. I can make them with different fonts and colors and add webdings. They always seemed to be picked up by the person following me. I also keep several in my own caches and try to make each one a little different. I have a lot of punches and make up little bags of confetti: teddy bears, palm trees, smiley faces, shamrocks, hearts etc. I've found quite a few new things at yard sales for 25 cents. The best was 12 individual packets in a box of Bath & Body Works mosquito wipes. I'm sure these were very expensive but the box said 25 cents so I've been passing them out in caches.

Howdy.

the buttons and stuff sound cool.

Not sure that I would trade for toothpicks.

July 23, 2006

Today I logged a cache with took nothing but left an Idaho GeoCoin. I hope that someday some or our fellow cachers will get the hint and trade equal or trade up. Unfortunately the last time I left a coin the next finder traded a quarter for it. I guess he/she had no idea how much those cost to get minted. (Yeah Right).

Is is commonly accepted that Geocoins and other trackables are not swag.

2.7k · July 23, 2006

Its been a problem since day 1 I think. Some people seem to think caches are garbage cans. I'm often amazed at the garbage that I've found in caches. If it's garbage trash it, don't cache it. Hey, I like that.

Tell me about it. I hear one guy left a can of beans in a cache. I mean, really... a can of BEANS?

2.7k · July 23, 2006

OOoh - good ideas! I love the playdoh ones - know exactly which ones your talking about too. I love the micro caches too - just finding them is joy enough I am sure.

My daughter loved the small medallion she found in her first cache - didnt take it - just oohed and aahed over it for a bit.

CB

Play-Doh and derivatives are a BAD idea. They are made from food-like products that attract animals via the smell. The critters then destroy teh cache trying to get at what they believe to be food.

Please don't do play-doh, no matter how cool it is.

9.5k · July 23, 2006

Thanks for the nice responses - but to the eyeroller talking about "Swag Angst" - if it's being mentioned every week (or more), then it's obvious it's one of the biggest bummers about this sport. So maybe it is a call to action. Being a doer rather than just a whiner, I think I will make some suggestions directly to "management" about emphasizing what others have written - Best we can do is set a good example and leave better than we find. Trade up or even or not at all"- "If it's garbage trash it, don't cache it" - "If someone puts in junk - well - hopefully another geocacher will do what we do - put in nice stuff". One of the golden rules of caching. Hmmmmmm......it's true we lead by example but some people just don't give a hoot, huh...?

I'm curious what you would expect "management" can do about it? It's already written up in the FAQ and another "rule" or "guideline" won't solve the problem. For those who don't give a hoot, if they really don't care, they aren't going to change their way due to any new guidelines and TPTB lack the ability to enforce that kind of extraneous regulation. It really boils down to localized peer pressure.

9.5k · July 23, 2006

But aren't you just punishing the next person who comes along? They're not to blame for the AOL disc or the kool-aid scoop.

No. The person that didn't trade before your arrival isn't to blame either. You're creating a punishment scenario where none should belong because the person before you didn't leave something for you to trade. That indicates malice with intent. I don't see that happening here.

Edited July 23, 2006 by TotemLake

July 23, 2006

The one I'm fond of in my area is giant fake money photocopied on regular typing paper stock. I seem to find that in about half the caches I visit. Without fail it ends up crinkled, folded, torn or half-wadded up. I seriously doubt anyone has ever taken any for any purpose other than to trash it.

3.9k · July 23, 2006

OOoh - good ideas! I love the playdoh ones - know exactly which ones your talking about too. I love the micro caches too - just finding them is joy enough I am sure.

My daughter loved the small medallion she found in her first cache - didnt take it - just oohed and aahed over it for a bit.

CB

Play-Doh and derivatives are a BAD idea. They are made from food-like products that attract animals via the smell. The critters then destroy teh cache trying to get at what they believe to be food.

Please don't do play-doh, no matter how cool it is.

New England N00b, you have made a great point; consonant with your reputation for astuteness, vision and wisdom. And, the whole Play-Doh thing reminds me of a recent bizarre thread where someone proposed leaving some kind of cosmetic skin cream or lip balm in caches as a sig item. I bit my tongue to refrain from posting, because I know myself too well, and I just knew that I would not have been able to control the dripping sarcasm and scathing venom: did the OP (and respondents who said "Great idea!") really not know that all such cosmetics are loaded with food-grade foodstuffs, including essential oils of plants, all of which have odors, and most of which are a surefire attractant to wildilfe? It was like "Hello, Earth?" time all over again...

July 23, 2006

Well that's interesting about the Play-doh, but from a purely consumptive point of view my kids loved it (and we love the smell...... <_< ..). And it was clean and fresh.

Also Vinny....(I assume it's Vinny, not Sue with the comments about kids, etc.,, etc.,,,,,,) - I am sure much of what you said was tongue in cheek but clearly it's the adults with the kids that are guiding the choices for swag left in "kid friendly caches" and that sends a message to the kids as well. So like anything those of us with kids do, we set examples. If we took a "good" item and left something "bad" that would clearly send a message to our kids - and it's something we wouldn't do. So I don't think it's fair to assume that just because someone has kids it will result in bad swag - although your statistics, so to speak, back that up. We still need to reach those adults and make this issue more visible.

I went to Staples today and they had a great sale on brand new boxes of crayons for 9 cents, and three sided highlighters (I use them all the time for work), for 50 cents. Grabbed a bunch. They also had great keychain calculators and clip ons for $1, but I had to limit myself. If one set foot in any store it is so easy to stock up on stuff - and we all know that. So how do we reach those who don't take that initiative - if 98% of the kid friendly caches are being negatively affected?

BTW, these kid friendly caches are also friendly to those of us who prefer our level of exertion to be level 3 or less - not just kids. We have taken seniors caching with us and even they have been let down by junk. It sends a message. To everyone.

It's obvious that this is a hot button to most - please head over to the Website forum where I posted a thread about this and add your support. All I am suggesting is a small, highlighted blurb on the opening page. Tactful, simple, but an acknowledgement. The offenders aren't reading the FAQ or anything else - they head to the opening page and enter the zips and go from there. How do we reach the most people? I think that's the only tool available - anyone else have suggestions? You're a terrific, creative group - let's make some progress as a group - we'll all be so proud!

Oh = PS - I would trade for colored toothpicks. Good for serving horsd's at parties. But - that's me.

July 23, 2006

I'm no germ-phobe, but I don't think I'd use a toothpick that's been sitting in a box under a rock, knowing how slimy those boxes get inside. Are they wrapped real well or soimething?

Are you planning to put the crayons out one or two at a time? That's another bad idea.

Also for those who really are strapped for cash, remember you can cadge ziplock bags from swag you pick up, or add your swag to a ziplock that's already there but not full. It really makes a difference in the condition of the item. Stuff degrades surprisingly fast out there.

July 23, 2006

We go out of our way to get stuff that would make a worthwhile swap. It's just a pity that a number of people just don't swap fair. An example, we placed a monocular in one of our caches worth $15, was not a firt finders prize and it was swapped for something worth less than $2.

We are always having to visit the more popular of our caches and restock and take out the junk, so be it, it's part of the game of being a cache owner etc.

There are many sources of good stuff to be found, try searching for bulk on ebay, you may be surprised at what you find.

2.7k · July 24, 2006

OOoh - good ideas! I love the playdoh ones - know exactly which ones your talking about too. I love the micro caches too - just finding them is joy enough I am sure.

My daughter loved the small medallion she found in her first cache - didnt take it - just oohed and aahed over it for a bit.

CB

Play-Doh and derivatives are a BAD idea. They are made from food-like products that attract animals via the smell. The critters then destroy teh cache trying to get at what they believe to be food.

Please don't do play-doh, no matter how cool it is.

New England N00b, you have made a great point; consonant with your reputation for astuteness, vision and wisdom. And, the whole Play-Doh thing reminds me of a recent bizarre thread where someone proposed leaving some kind of cosmetic skin cream or lip balm in caches as a sig item. I bit my tongue to refrain from posting, because I know myself too well, and I just knew that I would not have been able to control the dripping sarcasm and scathing venom: did the OP (and respondents who said "Great idea!") really not know that all such cosmetics are loaded with food-grade foodstuffs, including essential oils of plants, all of which have odors, and most of which are a surefire attractant to wildilfe? It was like "Hello, Earth?" time all over again...

I do believe you have me confused with someone else! <_<

1.6k · July 24, 2006

In my limited experience I have cleaned junk out of some of these and tossed it because I feel it's an insult to the cacher and to the cacher that took the time to place the cache.

Thanks for the place to vent - any attempts to make me feel better are appreciated!

I just think we are getting too close to a "Cache Police" state. your opinions may vary.

9.5k · July 24, 2006

Well that's interesting about the Play-doh, but from a purely consumptive point of view my kids loved it (and we love the smell...... ..). And it was clean and fresh.

Also Vinny....(I assume it's Vinny, not Sue with the comments about kids, etc.,, etc.,,,,,,) - I am sure much of what you said was tongue in cheek but clearly it's the adults with the kids that are guiding the choices for swag left in "kid friendly caches" and that sends a message to the kids as well. So like anything those of us with kids do, we set examples. If we took a "good" item and left something "bad" that would clearly send a message to our kids - and it's something we wouldn't do. So I don't think it's fair to assume that just because someone has kids it will result in bad swag - although your statistics, so to speak, back that up. We still need to reach those adults and make this issue more visible.

I went to Staples today and they had a great sale on brand new boxes of crayons for 9 cents, and three sided highlighters (I use them all the time for work), for 50 cents. Grabbed a bunch. They also had great keychain calculators and clip ons for $1, but I had to limit myself. If one set foot in any store it is so easy to stock up on stuff - and we all know that. So how do we reach those who don't take that initiative - if 98% of the kid friendly caches are being negatively affected?

BTW, these kid friendly caches are also friendly to those of us who prefer our level of exertion to be level 3 or less - not just kids. We have taken seniors caching with us and even they have been let down by junk. It sends a message. To everyone.

It's obvious that this is a hot button to most - please head over to the Website forum where I posted a thread about this and add your support. All I am suggesting is a small, highlighted blurb on the opening page. Tactful, simple, but an acknowledgement. The offenders aren't reading the FAQ or anything else - they head to the opening page and enter the zips and go from there. How do we reach the most people? I think that's the only tool available - anyone else have suggestions? You're a terrific, creative group - let's make some progress as a group - we'll all be so proud!

Oh = PS - I would trade for colored toothpicks. Good for serving horsd's at parties. But - that's me.

Not everybody reads the cache pages. And again, those who really don't care are going to ignore such admonitions. If they're ignoring the FAQ, you can bet your bottom dollar most will ignore the the reminder on the cache page. Case in point, before this challenge, have you taken the time to read the disclaimer on the cache page? Most will ignore it.

Reading the logs you can tell who the good cachers are, they will advise what they took and what they left or they TNLN. With this, you can discern a group of people that don't mention anything. Get to know them and you will then find out who the down traders are. Peer pressure (call it user education) will do more than any written word anywhere.

July 24, 2006

We leave the entire, brand new, fresh box of crayons. 9 cents at Staples this week, 10 cents at Walmart 2 weeks ago. <_<

July 24, 2006

With some of the caches that I have found, the containers were not all that weather tight, and the insdies were, to say the least, damp. Things deteriorate quickly in those conditions. Even a box of brand new crayons will look ratty in short time (don't take that wrong - I think a box of crayons is a great idea).

Personally, the thrill is in the hunt, and I don't realy care what may be in the cache (as long as there is a usable log book). I have only once taken an item and that was a key chain with "Illinois State Univ." on it, where my wife went to school. I'm a rockhound who polishes rocks by tumbling them, so I have a steady supply of tumbled, polished rocks. I usually leave a several in each cache that I find.

July 24, 2006

Yes, I think I'll toss some ziplocs into our geopack to protect the boxed items. We have found some super soggy caches with all the wet weather in New England this summer.

My kids would LOVE to find some tumbled stones - I think that's a great item!

2.1k · July 24, 2006

Reading the logs you can tell who the good cachers are...

... they will advise what they took and what they left or they TNLN. With this, you can discern a group of people that don't mention anything. Get to know them and you will then find out who the down traders are. Peer pressure (call it user education) will do more than any written word anywhere.

Well not exactly.

I don't think I've posted 20% of my trading on cache web pages. My activity is definitely well in the + column for trades, maintenance of other's caches on the road, maintainence of all the vacation caches in our visitor destination home town. But I don't write all of it up. And there have been plenty of forum posts where people state they don't log their cache activity. This sounds like a witch hunt in the making but I know from your posts that you don't intend one.

38.2k · July 24, 2006

I went to Staples today and they had a great sale on brand new boxes of crayons for 9 cents, and three sided highlighters (I use them all the time for work), for 50 cents. Grabbed a bunch. They also had great keychain calculators and clip ons for $1,

I happened to be in Staples yesterday and bought 20 of those keychain calculators. The'll be showing up in caches around here for at least a few weeks.

July 24, 2006

Ok so if you always trade even or up, why are all the caches in your area full of junk? :rolleyes:

Seriously practice CITO and that even includes the cache itself.

Personally I think the issue comes down to cost. The swag I think was never meant to be some fantastic expensive thing, but a trinket that lets you remember the cache. I try to keep good swag by watching e-bay and yard sales, and clearance sales. I also keep two peices in my bag for the good trades. I have a nice pen and pencil set i bought on clearance and a pair of binoculars for the really good swag. The pen set has changed over time ( calculator, silver dollar, etc...)but has stayed around 5-7 dollars in cost. The rest of my regular swag runs me about a buck a piece.

July 24, 2006

I forgot, I also have a plastic bag with about 10 things in it that I can drop into a cache to replenish it if it is low or needed a serious CITO.

Junk In Caches - Vent

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