Did Research, Still Need Advice On Which Gps To Get...

[+White Sage]

So, after a day of caching with some veterans (smav3719, EMC of Northridge, f0t0m0m, and Oldweeb), I had enough fun to want to get my own GPS. I’ve been researching them for the last few days and have narrowed my list down to a couple of units:

 

-Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx (~$400)

 

-Garmin eTrex Vista Cx (~$290)

 

Besides the standard features all GPS’s have, these are both pretty small, have expandable memory, can hold city maps (I want this for motorcycle touring), and have a compass (I don’t understand why most GPS’s don’t have this basic feature).

 

I want to just go ahead and get the Vista Cx since it’s cheaper and smaller than the GPSMAP 60CSx, but I have a friend who just bought an eTrex Legend and said on his first hike with it, it only had a signal for the first mile or so and then became completely useless. That makes me question the Vista Cx since it’s basically the same eTrex unit, with the same antenna. If a GPS can’t be used in the SoCal mtns, where heavy tree cover is pretty much non-existent, then that seems pretty pathetic. Should I avoid the eTrex line because of my friend’s experience, or does that sound like a rare/freak incident?

 

Am I crazy to insist on getting a GPS with a compass feature?

 

Any help/advice is greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks in advance

 

-White Sage

[R_S]

I was faced with this decision when I decided to upgrade from my Vista. I chose the 60CSx for two main reasons: (i) the Vista series does not yet offer the new receiver chipset, which is a fantastic improvement, and (ii) the colour eTrex units have only a USB interface and cannot talk to a PDA, which for me is important. I have no doubt at all that I took the right decision.

[travelinman441]

I too have been doing some research as a beginner and have narrowed my picks down to the Etrex Vista cx and the GPSMap 60csx. Can anyone offer real world comparisons between these 2 units? What are the strengths and weakneses between the two units?

[+geognerd]

I want to just go ahead and get the Vista Cx since it’s cheaper and smaller than the GPSMAP 60CSx, but I have a friend who just bought an eTrex Legend and said on his first hike with it, it only had a signal for the first mile or so and then became completely useless. That makes me question the Vista Cx since it’s basically the same eTrex unit, with the same antenna. If a GPS can’t be used in the SoCal mtns, where heavy tree cover is pretty much non-existent, then that seems pretty pathetic. Should I avoid the eTrex line because of my friend’s experience, or does that sound like a rare/freak incident?

 

Am I crazy to insist on getting a GPS with a compass feature?

The Vista Cx (and all the color-screen eTrexes) use a different receiver than the B&W eTrex Legend, Yellow eTrex, and so on. The color eTrexes perform better, from what I've read here in the forum. The Vista Cx is a good deal, since a lot of people already have a mini B type USB cable from other digital devices and will buy a large microSD card on their own.

 

Even better than the color eTrexes are the 60CSx, 60Cx, 76CSx, and 76Cx. Those have the SiRF receiver, which is more sensitive and reportedly works better in challenging situations like wooded areas and indoors.

 

As for the electronic compass, I personally think it's just another thing that costs extra, needs calibration, and eats batteries. You can get a good baseplate compass for $10 that doesn't need batteries. The CSx receivers with the compass need to be held flat for the compass to work best, but for best GPS reception they should be held vertical.

[+ejnewman]

The GPS can tell you which way is north as long as you are moving, so most people don't need to pay extra for an electronic compass. It is very handy for geocaching however, because you can stand in one place and see where the arrow for the cache points.

[+Cacheoholic]

I would highly recommend the 60CSx but your $400.00 figure is just the starting point. You will most likely end up wanting City Navigator V8 & USA Topo. Then you’ll want a 1MB SD micro memory card to put your maps on. Then an auto mount and power cord for in the car. Oh! Don’t forget an Invisasheild to protect that screen. You’ll probably need a nice padded case to keep it in…Are you getting the picture yet? I just added about $300.00 and didn’t even mention a laptop and/or Pocket PC. I gotta stop. I’m starting to realize how many thousands of dollars I’ve spent on Geocaching hardware and I’m getting depressed. I think I need to cut out of work early and go find a few caches to calm me down.

[+thefiveofus]

I would highly recommend the 60CSx but your $400.00 figure is just the starting point. You will most likely end up wanting City Navigator V8 & USA Topo. Then you’ll want a 1MB SD micro memory card to put your maps on. Then an auto mount and power cord for in the car. Oh! Don’t forget an Invisasheild to protect that screen. You’ll probably need a nice padded case to keep it in…Are you getting the picture yet? I just added about $300.00 and didn’t even mention a laptop and/or Pocket PC. I gotta stop. I’m starting to realize how many thousands of dollars I’ve spent on Geocaching hardware and I’m getting depressed. I think I need to cut out of work early and go find a few caches to calm me down.

 

Yes.!!

 

A few cost cutting tips:

- micro SD card.. can go for 512 megs... since 1 gig can't hold the entire US (for example), how much memory you add is kinda arbitrary... depends on your needs, travles, etc. $28 on amazon rather than 45 or $55.

 

- car mount- the ram mounts look way solid, but I have been pleasantly surprised by how much I like the garmin mount..people seem to like the actual connection to the 60csx better than the ram mounts, and it can twist and turn any way you'd like pretty much.. it's a little bouncy, but not because of where the base attachs, but rather depends on how much you extend the 'arm' but it works fine (so far). $22 on amazon.

 

- soft case ... $8 at EMS.. get their soft sunglasses case (black & grey) .. fits the 60 csx perfectly and has a small pouch outside for batteries, etc.

 

- invisi shield ... might be the best $10 I have spent in a while...haven't yet put it to the test, but I feel better already knowing it's on. watch their demo on their site..way cool...

 

- car power adapter... can go without at first if you are cash starved, but have plenty of batts (I did buy one and like that it keeps the backlight always on w/o draining my batts).

 

- city nav / topo ... will need city nav for driving...so far, I've made topo optional, (I guess mostly b/c I know the areas where I am going caching or choose low difficulty ones b/c of the kids, so vertical hikes have not been a problem).

 

hope this helps!

[+White Sage]

The Vista Cx (and all the color-screen eTrexes) use a different receiver than the B&W eTrex Legend, Yellow eTrex, and so on. The color eTrexes perform better, from what I've read here in the forum. The Vista Cx is a good deal, since a lot of people already have a mini B type USB cable from other digital devices and will buy a large microSD card on their own.

 

Even better than the color eTrexes are the 60CSx, 60Cx, 76CSx, and 76Cx. Those have the SiRF receiver, which is more sensitive and reportedly works better in challenging situations like wooded areas and indoors.

 

Thanks for the insightful info!

 

I guess my decision comes down to this: Is the difference in reception that noticeable between the color screen eTrex's and the GPSMAP 60's? I'm going to be using it for urban geocaching, hiking, and motorcycle touring. I don't see myself in any extreme places like dense jungles or caves, so will the eTrex make me happy, or will it lose its signal all the time and make me regret it?

 

-White Sage

[+TheDenvernators]

 

Thanks for the insightful info!

 

I guess my decision comes down to this: Is the difference in reception that noticeable between the color screen eTrex's and the GPSMAP 60's? I'm going to be using it for urban geocaching, hiking, and motorcycle touring. I don't see myself in any extreme places like dense jungles or caves, so will the eTrex make me happy, or will it lose its signal all the time and make me regret it?

 

-White Sage

 

For traveling and moderate geocaching, the Cx will do fine. I have numerous garmins without the Sirf chipset and have rarely had a problem geocaching, even in dense tree cover. On the road, it will be very good for you too.

The display IS bigger on the 60, but so is the whole device. I like slipping my legend(s) into my pocket or such when caching.. how many times have you opened the cache, signed, left goodies, and gotten 10 steps away before realizing the GPSr is still next to the cache on a log?

I can't knock the 60, but I own two legends and both have been just great for cacheing. Even the older B&W one.

 

John

[+denali7]

i LOVE my vista c. reception has always been reliable, the smaller size is just perfect, and i actually like and use the electronic compass. after i bought city maps and topo maps and case, i was certainly glad to have spent what i did on the gps itself.

[+White Sage]

Thanks Denvernators and Denali. Your first hand experiences are reassuring.

[robertlipe]

While I never owned a VistaC, I did a few thousand caches with its big brother the 60CS.

 

With street prices of 60csx as low as $370 these days, and the number of times I've seen the Sirf-less Garmins lose lock while driving down the interstate, it'd be an easy choice for me between those two if they're the only ones int he running.

 

I'd expect VistaC to exactly follow the 60CS curve at http://www.mtgc.org/robertlipe/showdown for reception.

[+ejnewman]

I also have a Vista Cx and have never had problems with reception.

[+briansnat]

I want to just go ahead and get the Vista Cx since it’s cheaper and smaller than the GPSMAP 60CSx, but I have a friend who just bought an eTrex Legend and said on his first hike with it, it only had a signal for the first mile or so and then became completely useless. That makes me question the Vista Cx since it’s basically the same eTrex unit, with the same antenna

 

THey are not the same unit. The eTrex C and CX units get vastly better reception than the older B&W eTrex units like the Legend.

 

That said, the Legend should work fine. Tell your friend he needs to always hold the unit flat, face up to the sky for best reception. If he hangs it upside down around his neck, holds it in his hand dangling at his side, clips it to his belt or puts it in his pocket, it will probably lose recpetion. For longer hikes I clip mine to the top of my pack's shoulder strap so its facing the sky.

 

The CX models aren't as sensitive to position as the older units, so its not an issue with the Vista CX.

 

I'd expect VistaC to exactly follow the 60CS curve at http://www.mtgc.org/robertlipe/showdown for reception.

 

I have a 60CS and have geocached alongside someone with a Legend C. The Legend C consistently had better reception than the 60CS.

Edited July 20, 2006 by briansnat

[Couch Eagle]

I was faced with this decision when I decided to upgrade from my Vista. I chose the 60CSx for two main reasons: (i) the Vista series does not yet offer the new receiver chipset, which is a fantastic improvement, and (ii) the colour eTrex units have only a USB interface and cannot talk to a PDA, which for me is important. I have no doubt at all that I took the right decision.

 

Can the 60Csx connect (directly) to a PDA? (I have a Palm Zire 72) How is that done? What software/program is required?

[rbrugman]

I highly recommend the new 60csx or anything with the new SiRF III chip. It's simply amazing. Geocaching has never been easier and I was able to lock a signal down to 10 feet from inside my house. Tried it yesterday under heavy (as in the light can't get through very well) tree cover and I never went any higher than 20 feet. The electronic compass also makes it well worth the money. I had a 60c before this, and I will not be going back.

 

Robert

[+Miragee]

i LOVE my vista c. reception has always been reliable, the smaller size is just perfect, and i actually like and use the electronic compass. after i bought city maps and topo maps and case, i was certainly glad to have spent what i did on the gps itself.

Ditto!

 

I like the smaller size of the Vista C, and I also love the fact that it can auto-route me around town.

 

That said, if you have the money, and if you cache where there are a lot of trees, getting the GPS Map60CSx is the way to go.

[+CJOttawa]

So, after a day of caching with some veterans (smav3719, EMC of Northridge, f0t0m0m, and Oldweeb), I had enough fun to want to get my own GPS. I’ve been researching them for the last few days and have narrowed my list down to a couple of units:

 

-Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx (~$400)

 

-Garmin eTrex Vista Cx (~$290)

 

Besides the standard features all GPS’s have, these are both pretty small, have expandable memory, can hold city maps (I want this for motorcycle touring), and have a compass (I don’t understand why most GPS’s don’t have this basic feature).

 

I want to just go ahead and get the Vista Cx since it’s cheaper and smaller than the GPSMAP 60CSx, but I have a friend who just bought an eTrex Legend and said on his first hike with it, it only had a signal for the first mile or so and then became completely useless. That makes me question the Vista Cx since it’s basically the same eTrex unit, with the same antenna. If a GPS can’t be used in the SoCal mtns, where heavy tree cover is pretty much non-existent, then that seems pretty pathetic. Should I avoid the eTrex line because of my friend’s experience, or does that sound like a rare/freak incident?

 

Am I crazy to insist on getting a GPS with a compass feature?

 

Any help/advice is greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks in advance

 

-White Sage

 

Hey White Sage!

 

I struggled with this too.

 

1) if you absolutely MUST have a small GPS - something you'll carry everywhere and don't want to feel weighed down - the eTrex is it.

 

2) if weight isn't as big a deal and you want to trade the size of the eTrex for a very powerful receiver and antenna (SIRF III) the 60CSx is sensitive to the point of being twitchy. (multipath error picking up very weak reflected signals)

 

Aside from a slightly smaller screen on the eTrex, from a display and interface standpoint, these units are very similar.

 

If the eTrex had a jack for an external antenna, I would have bought it. I went with the 60CSx instead but sometimes find myself wishing for the pocket-sized eTrex.

 

Good luck - these are both excellent units.

 

Chris

[+WetBrainFart617]

So, after a day of caching with some veterans (smav3719, EMC of Northridge, f0t0m0m, and Oldweeb), I had enough fun to want to get my own GPS. I’ve been researching them for the last few days and have narrowed my list down to a couple of units:

 

-Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx (~$400)

 

-Garmin eTrex Vista Cx (~$290)

 

Besides the standard features all GPS’s have, these are both pretty small, have expandable memory, can hold city maps (I want this for motorcycle touring), and have a compass (I don’t understand why most GPS’s don’t have this basic feature).

 

I want to just go ahead and get the Vista Cx since it’s cheaper and smaller than the GPSMAP 60CSx, but I have a friend who just bought an eTrex Legend and said on his first hike with it, it only had a signal for the first mile or so and then became completely useless. That makes me question the Vista Cx since it’s basically the same eTrex unit, with the same antenna. If a GPS can’t be used in the SoCal mtns, where heavy tree cover is pretty much non-existent, then that seems pretty pathetic. Should I avoid the eTrex line because of my friend’s experience, or does that sound like a rare/freak incident?

 

Am I crazy to insist on getting a GPS with a compass feature?

 

Any help/advice is greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks in advance

 

-White Sage

 

Hey White Sage!

 

I struggled with this too.

 

1) if you absolutely MUST have a small GPS - something you'll carry everywhere and don't want to feel weighed down - the eTrex is it.

 

2) if weight isn't as big a deal and you want to trade the size of the eTrex for a very powerful receiver and antenna (SIRF III) the 60CSx is sensitive to the point of being twitchy. (multipath error picking up very weak reflected signals)

 

Aside from a slightly smaller screen on the eTrex, from a display and interface standpoint, these units are very similar.

 

If the eTrex had a jack for an external antenna, I would have bought it. I went with the 60CSx instead but sometimes find myself wishing for the pocket-sized eTrex.

 

Good luck - these are both excellent units.

 

Chris

Hi Chris,

 

This a bit off topic, but I have the 60CSx and a few times I'd have the direction arrow pointing the opposite direction I'm traveling but distance would still decrease. Ex: Arrow points south but cache is north of me; so I continue walking north and distance would decrease. If I turned around and went south, the arrow would "flip around" and the distance to cache would increase! Any idea what that is?

 

Thanks for any advice.... and apologizes for being off topic.

 

Howard

[+CJOttawa]

Hi Chris,

 

This a bit off topic, but I have the 60CSx and a few times I'd have the direction arrow pointing the opposite direction I'm traveling but distance would still decrease. Ex: Arrow points south but cache is north of me; so I continue walking north and distance would decrease. If I turned around and went south, the arrow would "flip around" and the distance to cache would increase! Any idea what that is?

 

Thanks for any advice.... and apologizes for being off topic.

 

Howard

 

Howdy Howard!

 

I've had my CSx get confused when the compass goes out of calibration.

 

I haven't used the compass for a couple of days so I just powered up my 60CSx and directed it to Go-To my nearest cache (directly South, coincidentally) using the "off-road" function.

 

In addition to the behavior you describe, the compass rose rotated backwards - a right turn caused it to indicate a left turn.

 

Recalibrating fixed the problem immediately.

 

Hope this helps!

Chris

[+Robam]

Howdy Howard!

 

60CSx has to be set to "off-road" function in the routing setup screen. Better yet set it to prompt so when you use the find key you can find by road routing then find again by off road routing (when you get close). Off road routing is direct line of site. Remember everything mentioned above is different then lock on road found in map setup.

[+Night Stalker]

I own a 60CS. The chipset is not nearly as sensitive as the new 60CSX. I find my GPS losing signal in heavy tree cover quite often, and when navigating in large cities with those tall buildings I feel that I am always one step from being lost.

 

All of this has caused me to really consider investing in a new 60CX. Notice I did not say 60CSX. After using my 60CS I found that the compass function was not worth the additional money. I use a real compass when I need one and just use the GPS to point me to where I need to go.

 

Now if someone would only give me the money for a NEW 60CX, and City Navigator, and the 4X4 that I sure wish I had sometimes when I am caching I would be a happy man. (Of course if they threw in Nichole Kidman I would be happier, but probably would never get around to geocaching)..

[R_S]

Couch Eagle,the short answer to your question about connecting to a PDA is YES.

 

The longer answer is as follows. First, you need a GPSr with serial output. AFAIK just about all old GRSr units have a serial connection over which they can and will send serial GPS data output. High-end new units like the 60CSx have both USB and serial. But some of the newer colour eTrex units have only USB, and may not even produce a data output over USB. Forget about USB for a PDA to GPSr connection at present.

 

Secondly you need a PDA with a serial interface. That's just about any PDA.

 

Thirdly, you need to solve the cabling problem. A serial interface is symmetric, unlike a USB interface where one device is host and one is client. However, connecting plugs aren't, and come in M and F versions. Since the PC uses DB9M connectors, all devices that connect to it are equipped with DB9F serial cables. So if you use the supplied or standard serial cables, you need a DB9M to DB9M NULL MODEM (NOT straight through) connector to plug them into. A neater solution is to buy an off-brand DB9M serial cable for the GPSr (usually only a few inches long) which will already be wired correctly. Or, even neater if they make one for your PDA, you can buy a pair of PC-Mobile cables.

 

If you have a GPSr and PDA both with Bluetooth, you can also make a serial wireless connection that is equivalent to a cabled connection.

 

The application on the PDA needs to know the number of the real or virtual COM port on which to look for the GPSr, and will have a dialogue to allow that to be set. Finally, the GPSr needs to be set to the correct protocol. Usually this is NMEA for generic applications, but for Garmin's Que software on the PDA the correct protocol is GARMIN.

 

That's it, really. I have been doing this for a couple of years with first an eTrex Vista and now a 60CSx, and a Toshiba e800 Pocket PC PDA (I assume it works the same way on Palm), using any of Anquet, Fugawi, or Garmin Que software on the PDA. You probably wouldn't want this sort of rather clumsy setup for walking, but it's fine for a car passenger, and can even be used to provide a better driver interface than a pocket GPS.

[+WetBrainFart617]

Couch Eagle,the short answer to your question about connecting to a PDA is YES.

 

The longer answer is as follows. First, you need a GPSr with serial output. AFAIK just about all old GRSr units have a serial connection over which they can and will send serial GPS data output. High-end new units like the 60CSx have both USB and serial. But some of the newer colour eTrex units have only USB, and may not even produce a data output over USB. Forget about USB for a PDA to GPSr connection at present.

 

Secondly you need a PDA with a serial interface. That's just about any PDA.

 

Thirdly, you need to solve the cabling problem. A serial interface is symmetric, unlike a USB interface where one device is host and one is client. However, connecting plugs aren't, and come in M and F versions. Since the PC uses DB9M connectors, all devices that connect to it are equipped with DB9F serial cables. So if you use the supplied or standard serial cables, you need a DB9M to DB9M NULL MODEM (NOT straight through) connector to plug them into. A neater solution is to buy an off-brand DB9M serial cable for the GPSr (usually only a few inches long) which will already be wired correctly. Or, even neater if they make one for your PDA, you can buy a pair of PC-Mobile cables.

 

If you have a GPSr and PDA both with Bluetooth, you can also make a serial wireless connection that is equivalent to a cabled connection.

 

The application on the PDA needs to know the number of the real or virtual COM port on which to look for the GPSr, and will have a dialogue to allow that to be set. Finally, the GPSr needs to be set to the correct protocol. Usually this is NMEA for generic applications, but for Garmin's Que software on the PDA the correct protocol is GARMIN.

 

That's it, really. I have been doing this for a couple of years with first an eTrex Vista and now a 60CSx, and a Toshiba e800 Pocket PC PDA (I assume it works the same way on Palm), using any of Anquet, Fugawi, or Garmin Que software on the PDA. You probably wouldn't want this sort of rather clumsy setup for walking, but it's fine for a car passenger, and can even be used to provide a better driver interface than a pocket GPS.

 

R S,

 

Great explaination there! I wanted to ask though... Have you had or heard of any one connecting a GPSr such as a Garmin GPSmap 60CSx to a PC w/ Microsoft Streets & Trips 2006? I know I could have bought Streets & Trips with a USB receiver but I took the cheep route for that purchase. :-P I thought, with the serial port on my Garmin, I'd be able to have MS Streets & Trips use that port as a reciever.

 

Or, would you simply recommend buying MapSource City V8?

 

Thanks for any info you can offer...

 

Howard

[R_S]

Howard, compared to connecting to a PDA, connecting a GPSr to a PC is easy.

 

Method 1: just plug the serial cable of the GPS into the PC hardware serial port if it still has one, or into a USB-to-serial converter if not, or if that is more convenient anyhow. This method will allow either NMEA or GARMIN protocol to be used, accodring to what is set on the GPSr.

 

Method 2: with a Garmin USB GPSr, connect the GPSr as a USB client of the PC (that's the only way round you will be able to connect it) and use Garmin Spanner to provide one or more virtual COM ports on which the GARMIN-protocol USB output from the GPSr will be handed to the application as NMEA.

 

Method 3: with a Garmin USB GPSr, talk to the application over USB, using (only option) GARMIN protocol.

 

Method 1 is completely generic and requires no drivers (except for any USB-to-serial converter), but of course your GPSr must be able to produce serial GPS data output. Methods 2 and 3 are Garmin-specific, although there may be equivalent approaches with other makes, and require the appropriate Garmin USB drivers to be installed. Again, the GPSr must be able to output GPS data.

 

Generic PC applications usually use NMEA, and either method 1 with the GPSr set to NMEA, or method 2 with a Garmin GPSr that outputs over USB will work fine. Microsoft stuff should be in this category, but I've no personal experience. Fugawi and Anquet work in this mode.

 

Some generic PC applications also understand GARMIN protocol and can work with a Garmin GPSr set to GARMIN using method 1, but may not yet work properly with method 3.

 

Mapsource is very happy with a USB connection, method 3, and I assume this is also true of nRoute although I haven't checked. Downloading large mapsets to a microSD card is not a realistic prospect over a serial connection, better over a USB connection, better still if you can put the GPSr into MSD mode and treat it as a card reader, and probably fastest of all to a conventional USB 2.0 High Speed card reader. In the other direction, only a very modest bandwidth is required to transmit data from a GPSr to a PC, and any method will do.

[+Wardog72]

I hate to be negative. I purchased the Vista Cx the 8th of July and up until yesterday enjoyed the heck out of it. Ease of use and, to me, it was intuitive. However, after looking for a cache yesterday and it running for a long period of time, it completely crapped out on me. No warning or anything. Won't turn on regardless of what I try (change batteries, hard reset, etc). I researched solutions and found others with this or a similar problem with the Legend and the Vista. I'm of course going to contact Garmin more than likely get a replacement but be forwarned...

 

I do like the unit though...