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Puzzle Solution Sharing


Mishka

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I don't know if this subject has been discussed before, but I did a search with several keywords and didn't find an answer so I thought I would try a post and see what comes up.

 

I have been thinking of putting out a puzzle cache in my area with the result being an actual trading cache (a rarity where I live).

 

So I am wondering,

 

1. Do puzzle cache hiders find that people don't actually solve the puzzle but just get the coordinates from friends?

 

2. What is there to do about it, or is it even worth worrying about?

 

I would like to hide a medium difficulty puzzle cache but it will kind of lose its point if only one person solves it and the rest of the finders just get coordinates from them. I thought I would ask and see if this is something common or not.

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I enjoy solving the puzzles and like to work out the ones in my area. I do know others who despise them, and others who are okay with them. I must admit I have shared coordinates when out caching with a friend and I discover we are near one I've solved but she, perhaps, had not. This is not frequent, and we will both try to solve puzzles for an area we plan to visit, but it has happened. I think most of your finders will have done the work. Some will ask friends for a nudge, then solve it. And there are some who will just ask a friend. If a friend asks me about a puzzle I have solved, I will give them a hint if I can. I try not to just give away the solution.

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So I am wondering,

 

2. What is there to do about it, or is it even worth worrying about?

 

 

I personally don't question how people come by the coords to my puzzle caches. I'm not that anal.

 

As a hider, I want people to find my caches, so it matters not to me how they got the coords, but if they enjoyed the experience. If they did... Win-Win.

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So I am wondering,

 

2. What is there to do about it, or is it even worth worrying about?

 

 

I personally don't question how people come by the coords to my puzzle caches. I'm not that anal.

 

As a hider, I want people to find my caches, so it matters not to me how they got the coords, but if they enjoyed the experience. If they did... Win-Win.

 

I have a different take. If I wanted people to just have the coords, I wouldn't bother with the puzzle. If I create a puzzle its to add to the challenge and I think getting the coords from someone else is on the cheesy side. That said, I wouldn't delete any logs because the person found the cache and signed the book.

 

I don't doubt puzzle sharing goes on, but I think it's fairly rare and most people solve it on their own.

 

Short of deleting logs there isn't much you can do, but if you delete logs be prepared for some unpleasantness. Cheaters tend to dislike being called out and can get very defensive.

 

I'd say go ahead and place cache and the vast majority of honest cachers will solve the puzzle and a handful will get will get the coordinates from a friend. No sense worrying about it or changing the way you play the game.

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I say go for it! I'm alway looking for new caches close to home, especially with gas prices the way they are. Now with it being a puzzle cache, it might not be found as often as other caches in the area. Some people really enjoy puzzle caches in this area, unfortunately I suck at them! Maybe I will get lucky and it will be something I can figure out. But if not, I promise I will only bug you for a hint :laughing:B)

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Like the game of pool, puzzle solving is something I enjoy doing, even though I'm not very good at it. Quite often I'll beg for a nudge. I wouldn't feel comfortable with someone just giving me the coords. On the other hand, if someone is having trouble with one of the puzzles I've hidden, I'll let them determine how much help I'll give them. I can nudge them, or I can simply tell them the coords. Up to them.

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My area has a corps of avid puzzle-solvers, in which I include myself. I admit I once asked a finder for a hint in a moment of weakness, but thankfully I was rebuffed (I have never asked an owner - if a clue was necessary, it should/would have been included). Puzzlers rarely resort to sharing, IMLE.

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I enjoy hiding puzzles - if folks don't like 'em, they don't have to do them - same as I don't bother with micros. There are plenty of caches in every flavor for everyone. That said, I won't tell the coordinates but I will give many hints depending on whether folks ask for them or demand them. Demanders don't get much. As far as someone 'cheating' - that's ok with me - they know if they solved the puzzle or not - and they can't get nearly the feeling of accomplishment if they just got the coords somewhere, so they are not cheating me out of anything and I don't bother with policing the logs. Everyone plays a different game.

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I don't appreciate being called a cheater. B) My mind doesn't work in puzzles. I can't even do 10% of a simple crossword puzzle. On 99% of the puzzle caches that I have done, my brother has done the mental work for me, and then he usually visits me or I visit him (he lives in Seattle) and we share some special us time going to the caches together. That is what is important, and I don't call that cheating.

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I observe that the more true puzzle caches there are in an area, the more the non-puzzlers learn to simply ignore them. The puzzle folks exchange caches with one another.

 

If Joe and Mary are caching together and Mary has worked out the puzzle coords, Joe is going to sign that log and log that find. Joe may or may not acknowledge that he was just accompanying Mary, who did the mental work. That's the nature of caching for most people.

 

As a cache owner of one real puzzle, I don't consider that cheating. It's fine with me. It's part of the social aspect of the game. If the cacher just stumbled upon the cache that would be a legit find too, in my book.

 

If you want to limit finds to only those who actually solved the puzzle, you'd better put that in big bold letters on the cache page, and ask yourself if you're prepared to back it up with log deletions.

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I don't appreciate being called a cheater. dry.gif My mind doesn't work in puzzles. I can't even do 10% of a simple crossword puzzle. On 99% of the puzzle caches that I have done, my brother has done the mental work for me, and then he usually visits me or I visit him (he lives in Seattle) and we share some special us time going to the caches together. That is what is important, and I don't call that cheating.

 

I'm not big on puzzles either. I just can't be bothered to take the time to solve them. So I usually just don't do puzzle caches. If I find a puzzle cache with someone who did the solving, I enjoy the hunt just as much, but I don't log a find. I don't need a smiley to validate the experience.

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Recently I worked with two friends on a puzzle cache that required you to answer obscure trivia questions. I knew about a third of the answers. Friend A also knew a third. The same as friend B. We then compared notes and each found the cache on our own. I guess that makes us all 2/3 cheaters?

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Most people who do puzzles around us, work them out by themselves, perhaps with a little push in the right direction from either the owner or another cacher who has solved it. On harder puzzles, it is not unusual for a group of 2 or even more cachers to work on solving the puzzle together. All of this is considered fair. There are some people though, who do none of the work, but happen to be out hunting with someone who has solved a puzzle and then log the find as well. No one says anything about it, but I personally consider it unethical, and would not do it. Working the puzzle, the way the creator intended, is a part of the cache. Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't feel right about logging a cache that I didn't invest any work into.

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I do all the puzzle solving for our team and so far I haven't asked for any help even from the cache owners (therefore I have a lot still to do, some make my brain hurt really hard.) But when I go searching with my 8 and 10 year old with the updated coordinates, should they not log finds because they didn't contribute to the puzzle solving?

 

Lazy kids, with their stupid 2nd and 4th grade educations!

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I'm not big on puzzles either. I just can't be bothered to take the time to solve them. So I usually just don't do puzzle caches. If I find a puzzle cache with someone who did the solving, I enjoy the hunt just as much, but I don't log a find. I don't need a smiley to validate the experience.

That works for you, and I think it's great. However, I also think your logic is a little bent.

 

Two people go caching together. They attempt to find a cache (any old traditional cache). While some people may wait patiently at the cache site for all searchers to find the cache, many do not. Often, one of the cachers finds the cache and they both sign the log and document the find on-line. I believe that most will agree that this is not cheating. I don't see a difference between this example and Ambrosia's finding of a cache with a person who solved the puzzle. (Getting information from others that allows you to find the cache is related, in my opinion.)

 

Back to the original questions:

 

1. Obviously, all cachers are not going to solve puzzles completely on their own. Some will find the cache with friends who solved the puzzle, some will get hints that allow them to solve it, and some will simply get the solution from a friend.

 

2. I don't think that there is any need to do anything about these activities. The cachers who found it on completely on their own will likely get more satisfaction from the cache than those that were given a spoiler, I guess. Either way, people are finding and enjoying your cache. Be happy.

Edited by sbell111
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It's my experience sharing coordinates is not common, nor something to worry about. It does happen on occasion, but not nearly enough to dissuade us from placing those types of caches.

 

Also, while we do like to place caches that are found, our take is not everyone is going to be able to solve some puzzles just like some folks are not going to be able to complete that 20 mile hike, grab that SCUBA cache, canoe or swim over to that little island, or even climb that tree. Some folks simply can't solve puzzles and that's okay.

 

Giving someone the solution to a cache is like making that hike and bringing back the cache for them to sign.

 

By far, most people recognize this and said "cheating" simply doesn't happen often enough for us to worry about.

 

If our caches are found by the finder bypassing a stage or brute forcing the solution, we consider it our fault and it's kudos to the finder--the find stands. We just try harder to prevent it on our next cache. (Wholesale cheating not withstanding, that is.)

 

By far, the biggest thing we worry about in placing the cache is providing an entertaining experience.

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It's my experience sharing coordinates is not common, nor something to worry about. It does happen on occasion, but not nearly enough to dissuade us from placing those types of caches.

 

Also, while we do like to place caches that are found, our take is not everyone is going to be able to solve some puzzles just like some folks are not going to be able to complete that 20 mile hike, grab that SCUBA cache, canoe or swim over to that little island, or even climb that tree. Some folks simply can't solve puzzles and that's okay.

 

Giving someone the solution to a cache is like making that hike and bringing back the cache for them to sign.

 

By far, most people recognize this and said "cheating" simply doesn't happen often enough for us to worry about.

 

If our caches are found by the finder bypassing a stage or brute forcing the solution, we consider it our fault and it's kudos to the finder--the find stands. We just try harder to prevent it on our next cache. (Wholesale cheating not withstanding, that is.)

 

By far, the biggest thing we worry about in placing the cache is providing an entertaining experience.

 

My sentiments exactly.

 

I was going to post something to that effect, but I think CoyoteRed worded it much better that I might have. I especially like the puzzle/hike analogy.

 

Good work, CR. :laughing:

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I admit I once asked a finder for a hint in a moment of weakness, but thankfully I was rebuffed (I have never asked an owner - if a clue was necessary, it should/would have been included).

 

I love the mental challenge of puzzle caches (maybe in part because I haven't got the physique to handle the more challenging physical caches), and especially love the "ah HA" moment when the path to the solution appears. I've asked for "gentle nudges" from cache owners if I'm flummoxed on a puzzle I particularly want to solve. I figure the hider can choose how much or little help to give, if any. I've also been asked by seekers for hints, and I tell them I'm happy to give "gentle nudges", but I always tell them to ask the cache hider first. The hider should be given the courtesy of deciding how much of a mental challenge to make it. I've never had a seeker fail to get the help they requested from the hider, and ask me again.

 

I cache with my daughter. I've had her solve puzzles within her mental abilities before taking her out, but usually I'm the sole solver. But she usually finds the physical cache. (It must be something about those young eyes.) :laughing: I don't consider it cheating that I needed help with the physical part. (Although maybe I'll start asking her to bring the cache back to me while I wait in the car. :laughing:

 

I can also see a comparison with difficult cammo jobe and micro caches. I don't think it's "cheating" if the cache owner decides to give me a little extra help. Again, their decision.

 

By far, the biggest thing we worry about in placing the cache is providing an entertaining experience.

 

Amen! Some are entertained by solving, some by finding. It's nice to have a sport that can so well accomodate a variety of interests! :laughing:

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I don't appreciate being called a cheater. ... On 99% of the puzzle caches that I have done, my brother has done the mental work for me, and then he usually visits me or I visit him ... and we share some special us time going to the caches together.

 

I again. Good times with family and friends. You can't beat that. As a cache hider and a local puzzle creator, just having people finding the cache and enjoying the hunt makes all the work I put into placing a cache worth it.

 

... If I find a puzzle cache with someone who did the solving, I enjoy the hunt just as much, but I don't log a find. I don't need a smiley to validate the experience.

 

Once again, Brian has a good attitude about his approach to this, although, I would be more then happy to allow him to log a find on one of my caches if he found it with another cacher. Even so, I don't think his logic is at all bend, even if Brian is. :laughing:

 

Point to be made about the original post.

Hopefully solutions wont be given out, but nudges and guidance will be given. I find that a team approach builds friendships and increases the enjoyment level. [see Ambrosia's post again]

 

Despite appearances, puzzling (and caching) is not a solitary game.

 

 

Acknowelgmnets to Dirty_Bird & BigNastyBrain

Edited by ekitt10
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It's my experience sharing coordinates is not common, nor something to worry about. It does happen on occasion, but not nearly enough to dissuade us from placing those types of caches.

 

Also, while we do like to place caches that are found, our take is not everyone is going to be able to solve some puzzles just like some folks are not going to be able to complete that 20 mile hike, grab that SCUBA cache, canoe or swim over to that little island, or even climb that tree. Some folks simply can't solve puzzles and that's okay.

 

Giving someone the solution to a cache is like making that hike and bringing back the cache for them to sign.

 

By far, most people recognize this and said "cheating" simply doesn't happen often enough for us to worry about.

 

If our caches are found by the finder bypassing a stage or brute forcing the solution, we consider it our fault and it's kudos to the finder--the find stands. We just try harder to prevent it on our next cache. (Wholesale cheating not withstanding, that is.)

 

By far, the biggest thing we worry about in placing the cache is providing an entertaining experience.

 

My sentiments exactly.

 

I was going to post something to that effect, but I think CoyoteRed worded it much better that I might have. I especially like the puzzle/hike analogy.

 

Good work, CR. :laughing:

 

I'm puzzled - KBI agreeing with CR :laughing:

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I don't appreciate being called a cheater. :laughing: My mind doesn't work in puzzles. I can't even do 10% of a simple crossword puzzle. On 99% of the puzzle caches that I have done, my brother has done the mental work for me, and then he usually visits me or I visit him (he lives in Seattle) and we share some special us time going to the caches together. That is what is important, and I don't call that cheating.

 

I would say that the better solution would be to place puzzles on ignore. If you can't work puzzles, you don't have to search for them.

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Also, while we do like to place caches that are found, our take is not everyone is going to be able to solve some puzzles just like some folks are not going to be able to complete that 20 mile hike, grab that SCUBA cache, canoe or swim over to that little island, or even climb that tree. Some folks simply can't solve puzzles and that's okay.

 

Well put.

 

On the other hand I think that two or more people heading out to the coords on a puzzle where only one solved it is normal, even common. Short of them posting that one of them solved it and the others tagged along, (and I have seen logs like that), I would generally not know. In any case, if I saw the solution posted somewhere I'd probably be upset, otherwise it's not worth worrying about.

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It's my experience sharing coordinates is not common, nor something to worry about. It does happen on occasion, but not nearly enough to dissuade us from placing those types of caches.

 

Also, while we do like to place caches that are found, our take is not everyone is going to be able to solve some puzzles just like some folks are not going to be able to complete that 20 mile hike, grab that SCUBA cache, canoe or swim over to that little island, or even climb that tree. Some folks simply can't solve puzzles and that's okay.

 

Giving someone the solution to a cache is like making that hike and bringing back the cache for them to sign.

 

By far, most people recognize this and said "cheating" simply doesn't happen often enough for us to worry about.

 

If our caches are found by the finder bypassing a stage or brute forcing the solution, we consider it our fault and it's kudos to the finder--the find stands. We just try harder to prevent it on our next cache. (Wholesale cheating not withstanding, that is.)

 

By far, the biggest thing we worry about in placing the cache is providing an entertaining experience.

 

My sentiments exactly.

 

I was going to post something to that effect, but I think CoyoteRed worded it much better that I might have. I especially like the puzzle/hike analogy.

 

Good work, CR. :laughing:

 

I'm puzzled - KBI agreeing with CR :laughing:

OH! A great idea for a puzzle cache - find the post number(s) where that happens! :laughing::blink:

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Good work, CR. :laughing:

I'm puzzled - KBI agreeing with CR :laughing:

OH! A great idea for a puzzle cache - find the post number(s) where that happens! :laughing::blink:

CR says a lot of things I agree with. So do other people. Normally I try to avoid wasting server time and screen space with meaningless "I agree!" posts, but in this case he used exceptional eloquence to make what I thought was a very valid point.

 

On the other hand, whenever anyone starts using faulty reasoning to preach to others about how the game should be played, I usually don't hesitate to question their logic.

 

I'm not anti-CR; I'm just anti-BS.

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I don't appreciate being called a cheater. :laughing: My mind doesn't work in puzzles. I can't even do 10% of a simple crossword puzzle. On 99% of the puzzle caches that I have done, my brother has done the mental work for me, and then he usually visits me or I visit him (he lives in Seattle) and we share some special us time going to the caches together. That is what is important, and I don't call that cheating.

I would say that the better solution would be to place puzzles on ignore. If you can't work puzzles, you don't have to search for them.

I have the same mental abilities Ambrosia has . . . I simply cannot do puzzles, not even the easy ones created for kids . . . :blink:

 

I don't include the Puzzle caches in my PQs because just looking at those cache pages gives me a headache. :laughing:

 

However . . . I cache with smart people who do figure out the puzzles. Sometimes getting to the container involves a long hike (we have an area here dubbed "Puzzle Valley" because there are so many Puzzle caches hidden there.) :mad:

 

If I sign the logbook, I log the cache online . . . and the Puzzle creators are fine with that. :laughing:

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I don't appreciate being called a cheater. :laughing: My mind doesn't work in puzzles. I can't even do 10% of a simple crossword puzzle. On 99% of the puzzle caches that I have done, my brother has done the mental work for me, and then he usually visits me or I visit him (he lives in Seattle) and we share some special us time going to the caches together. That is what is important, and I don't call that cheating.
I would say that the better solution would be to place puzzles on ignore. If you can't work puzzles, you don't have to search for them.

Markwell, that is a fine solution, for you. In fact, I filter out puzzles, most of the time. The implication of your post, however, is that Ambrosia's way is wrong. I couldn't disagree with this more. She logs the caches fair and square and gets to spend quality time with her brother. I see no foul play. In fact, if one of my family members loved puzzles, I would probably let them go crazy solving some local ones for me, so we could find them together.

 

(This post brought to you by the comma.)

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There's a scuba cache. I can't dive.

 

My best friend is a scuba diver and I go out in the boat with him and sit and wait while he goes down and retrieves the cache. He brings it up to the boat and signs the log book.

 

Am I going to sign the log book and claim a find? No. But I'll post a note.

 

Your ethics may vary.

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There's a scuba cache. I can't dive.

 

My best friend is a scuba diver and I go out in the boat with him and sit and wait while he goes down and retrieves the cache. He brings it up to the boat and signs the log book.

 

Am I going to sign the log book and claim a find? No. But I'll post a note.

 

Your ethics may vary.

apples-oranges.jpg

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There's a scuba cache. I can't dive.

 

My best friend is a scuba diver and I go out in the boat with him and sit and wait while he goes down and retrieves the cache. He brings it up to the boat and signs the log book.

 

Am I going to sign the log book and claim a find? No. But I'll post a note.

 

Your ethics may vary.

 

Yeah, that's the way I'd handle that, despite the fact I don't know any divers. However, if you had solved a puzzle that a friend had not solved, would you put off going to the final until he had solved it, or go alone? Or encourage him or her to come along but only post a note?

 

Warum sind deine schuhe nass? Trocken die nicht?

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There's a scuba cache. I can't dive.

 

My best friend is a scuba diver and I go out in the boat with him and sit and wait while he goes down and retrieves the cache. He brings it up to the boat and signs the log book.

 

Am I going to sign the log book and claim a find? No. But I'll post a note.

 

Your ethics may vary.

 

I don't scuba dive but my friend has access to the remote controlled submersible Jason. Went out with him in a boat and he drove Jason down to the cache to retrieved it and bring it back to the boat. You bet I'd log it as a find.

 

Seems like every trivia type cache I've done, I asked my friends Larry and Sergey to help me find the answers. And I'm sure that I used other tools I've borrowed to solve other puzzle caches. I can't see that this is different than asking your brother for help solving the puzzle so you can go find it.

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There's a scuba cache. I can't dive.

 

My best friend is a scuba diver and I go out in the boat with him and sit and wait while he goes down and retrieves the cache. He brings it up to the boat and signs the log book.

 

Am I going to sign the log book and claim a find? No. But I'll post a note.

 

Your ethics may vary.

I'm not quite that strict on myself. I would only agree with you in that example if the description were to specifically owtlaw having a friend retrieve the cache for you.

 

Otherwise, my ethics allow that the 'Special Equipment Required For Five-Star-Terrain caches' includes not only 'Scuba Gear,' but also 'A Friend Wearing Scuba Gear.'

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Let's mix apples and oranges.

I can't scuba, I don't log a scuba cache as a find.

I can't solve a puzzle, I don't log the puzzle as a find.

More like mixing red apples and green apples, in my opinion.

As I said - your ethics may vary.

 

...if you had solved a puzzle that a friend had not solved, would you put off going to the final until he had solved it, or go alone? Or encourage him or her to come along but only post a note?

I wouldn't do anything to sway them one way or the other. I would let them play how they wanted (isn't that your mantra sbell111?). I indicated what *I* would do.

As I said - your ethics may vary.

 

I don't scuba dive but my friend has access to the remote controlled submersible Jason. Went out with him in a boat and he drove Jason down to the cache to retrieved it and bring it back to the boat. You bet I'd log it as a find.

As I said - your ethics may vary.

 

Seems like every trivia type cache I've done, I asked my friends Larry and Sergey to help me find the answers. And I'm sure that I used other tools I've borrowed to solve other puzzle caches. I can't see that this is different than asking your brother for help solving the puzzle so you can go find it.

As I said - your ethics may vary.

 

Have I asked for help? Yes - but always from the owner. Most of the time, they've been willing to give me a nudge. And as the owner of several puzzle caches in the past, I've nudged people that have asked me as well.

 

I guess I have a problem with people thinking they have to find EVERY cache, even if it means having someone else do the work. If you can't solve the puzzle, place the cache on your ignore list and move on. There's plenty of other caches, puzzle and regular, to find.

Edited by Markwell
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Let's mix apples and oranges.

I can't scuba, I don't log a scuba cache as a find.

I can't solve a puzzle, I don't log the puzzle as a find.

More like mixing red apples and green apples, in my opinion.

As I said - your ethics may vary.

 

...if you had solved a puzzle that a friend had not solved, would you put off going to the final until he had solved it, or go alone? Or encourage him or her to come along but only post a note?

I wouldn't do anything to sway them one way or the other. I would let them play how they wanted (isn't that your mantra sbell111?). I indicated what *I* would do.

As I said - your ethics may vary.

 

I don't scuba dive but my friend has access to the remote controlled submersible Jason. Went out with him in a boat and he drove Jason down to the cache to retrieved it and bring it back to the boat. You bet I'd log it as a find.

As I said - your ethics may vary.

 

Seems like every trivia type cache I've done, I asked my friends Larry and Sergey to help me find the answers. And I'm sure that I used other tools I've borrowed to solve other puzzle caches. I can't see that this is different than asking your brother for help solving the puzzle so you can go find it.

As I said - your ethics may vary.

 

Have I asked for help? Yes - but always from the owner. Most of the time, they've been willing to give me a nudge. And as the owner of several puzzle caches in the past, I've nudged people that have asked me as well.

 

I guess I have a problem with people thinking they have to find EVERY cache, even if it means having someone else do the work. If you can't solve the puzzle, place the cache on your ignore list and move on. There's plenty of other caches, puzzle and regular, to find.

Oh, I have caches on my ignore list. :laughing:

 

Funny, I'm normally quite uptight in my ethics on what and how to log. But there's a couple areas that I guess I'm not as uptight in my ideas as others. That happens.

 

And leave my apples out of this. :laughing::laughing:

Edited by Ambrosia
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...if you had solved a puzzle that a friend had not solved, would you put off going to the final until he had solved it, or go alone? Or encourage him or her to come along but only post a note?

I wouldn't do anything to sway them one way or the other. I would let them play how they wanted (isn't that your mantra sbell111?). I indicated what *I* would do.

As I said - your ethics may vary.

Ummm.... Were you responding to me or CheshireFrog?

 

Either way, apparently many people disagree with you. Perhaps your ethics are varied? :laughing:

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I wouldn't do anything to sway them one way or the other. I would let them play how they wanted (isn't that your mantra sbell111?). I indicated what *I* would do.

As I said - your ethics may vary.

Working on the assumption that you were, indeed, responding to some unknown post that I made, I would have to say that, you have it wrong. That is not my mantra. A quick read of my posts would likely show you that I am fairly quick to share my opinion of right and wrong and that I have been quick to come out against cheating where I have seen it. The example at issue, however, simply is not wrong, in my opinion. Your uptightness may vary.

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I wouldn't do anything to sway them one way or the other. I would let them play how they wanted (isn't that your mantra sbell111?). I indicated what *I* would do.

As I said - your ethics may vary.

Working on the assumption that you were, indeed, responding to some unknown post that I made, I would have to say that, you have it wrong. That is not my mantra. A quick read of my posts would likely show you that I am fairly quick to share my opinion of right and wrong and that I have been quick to come out against cheating where I have seen it. The example at issue, however, simply is not wrong, in my opinion. Your uptightness may vary.

Yeah, like mine does. :laughing:

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I wouldn't do anything to sway them one way or the other. I would let them play how they wanted (isn't that your mantra sbell111?). I indicated what *I* would do.

As I said - your ethics may vary.

Working on the assumption that you were, indeed, responding to some unknown post that I made, I would have to say that, you have it wrong. That is not my mantra. A quick read of my posts would likely show you that I am fairly quick to share my opinion of right and wrong and that I have been quick to come out against cheating where I have seen it. The example at issue, however, simply is not wrong, in my opinion. Your uptightness may vary.

Hey, that's my mantra. You keep your paws off it.

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To add one more IMO, it may be considered that some of the almost impossible puzzles are really changing the objective of the game . . . finding caches is really the primary objective, not puzzle-solving.

 

When the puzzle is so cryptic :laughing: , so difficult :laughing: and peculiar :laughing: as to not be solvable in a reasonable amount of time with ready resources in the field, then it has altered the objective of the game . . . it is no longer geocaching, but puzzle solving with a cache at the end, as a token.

 

When puzzles are FUN, can be solved in the field with data available THERE . . . then I say "HURRAH, let's have more".

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Personally, if a few cachers got together as a "think tank" to solve a puzzle cache, I wouldn't have a problem with that. One of the great things about caching is spending time with others.

 

I don't see a problem with using online tools for researching cyphers, etc either.

 

However, I don't really care for "cheat" sites that either outright tell you how to solve a puzzle or even worse give coordinates for puzzle caches.

 

I've just done hidden my first puzzle cache. And the thrill for me is imagining others trying to figure out how to solve it; wondering if they will figure out what I was thinking when I created it. After a while, I plan to give a few hints myself if noone has found it yet. I DO want it found. But I think it's cool to use your brain a little as well.

 

If several people got together to figure it out, that would be cool. I would enjoy reading each person's found log.

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When puzzles are FUN, can be solved in the field with data available THERE . . . then I say "HURRAH, let's have more".
FWIW, some of the puzzles that I've enjoyed the most have required resources that I do not have with me "in the field" while geocaching. But I never set out for a cache unless I know the actual coordinates (perhaps a side effect of not owning a GPSr, but using Google satellite photos instead).
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I do some puzzles but others I have no idea how to even start them. I saw one that just shows a barcode. What in heck to do I do with that? In cases like that I just don't do the cache.

I guess you'll have to take it to Ralph's and have it scanned. It kind of reminds me of the opening to the Simpsons.

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I don't have a problem with people working together to solve my puzzles. I have even told people who have visited together, when 1 couldn't even begin to understand how the puzzle was solved, to log it as a find anyhow. They found the cache. My biggest problem is with some people who will do anything to find the cache. We have one cache in particular who actually emails others and gives them the solution for harder caches, then asks for the answer to a puzzle he can't solve. He has ruined a few caches for some people because they have had a few DNFs before they got this unsolicitaed email with the solution. This is where I draw the line on "playing theri own way".

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My two cents....

 

If you sign the log book on one of my caches, you can claim the Find. I dont care if you convinced someone to go get the cache and deliver it to your house for you to sign, you 'found' the cache through one method or another (of course, I'd be a bit peeved if they didn't put it back, or if someone DNFed it while it was gone).

 

Now, this is just what I feel for my caches, and I don't expect others to feel the same for their caches, so if something is a bit out of the ordinary, I ask the cache owner.

 

For instance, there is a 5/5 cache here in Plano that requires you to solve a puzzle, then use climbing gear to climb about 40' up tree at the final coords. I'd heard that there were some that had solved the puzzle, but lacked the gear, so when I solved the puzzle I posted a note to the cache page announcing when I planned on hitting the final. In the note, I stated that anyone who wanted to join me could meet me at the closest parking lot to the final coors to the East as to not give away anything to those that hadn't solved the puzzle.

 

As it turned out, twelve cachers showed up, plus the cache hider. I climbed up and retreived the cache, but before I tossed it down I asked the owner if he required each individual to climb, and he said no, so down the cache went, all that were there got to claim a find, and those that wanted to climbed anyways.

 

Do I feel that those that didn't climb cheated? No, expecially since the owner was cool with it.

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I do some puzzles but others I have no idea how to even start them. I saw one that just shows a barcode. What in heck to do I do with that? In cases like that I just don't do the cache.

 

LOL, the one that's giving me the most trouble says that that the actual coordinates are a green rectangle minus some number and a purple rectangle minus another number. Huh?

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