Poison Oak/ivy Question

2.5k · July 17, 2006

Maverick is a very unhappy frog right now... Seriously, though, a few weeks ago - after a happy weekend of caching, he got a rash and a headache that felt like a migrane.. it got horrible, so we finally took him to the doctor. I looked at it before we went and it looked like it could possibly be a spider bite (note, I've never seen a spider bite on anybody, but I saw two little dots and the rashy thing was blistering.)

The Physician's assistant - who was a jackass to him the entire time he was there - took one look, said it was Shingles, and was done with it, giving us a massive bill and a massive list of prescriptions.

This past weekend, we had a rousing three hour hike through weeds and brush and everything else on Saturday and then on Sunday he was getting a headache and saw a simelar spot appear on his head.

Today at work, one of the guys looked at it and said that what he had today was Poison Oak.

His prior rash never turned purple like Shingles is supposed to do before it goes away. And the two look the same. I could show a number of gross pics that make you all want to hurl, but I'll spare you.

Anyway, my questions are:

Is there anyone here who has had both? Or known people to have them? Or anything like that.. that can tell me the differences?

According to what we were looking at, both Poison Ivy and Poison Oak are caused by the same thing, so how is it possible that you can never get poison ivy but get poison oak repeatedly? Note that the two breakouts are both on his forehead above his right eye.

How does one prevent getting such a thing? Yeah, yeah, I know not to touch the plants, but we were in the woods at dusk and leaves just kinda looked green, etc.. When you're in shrubs up to your chest, you can't exactly tell what all is around you...

Any help would be nice.

6.5k · July 17, 2006

Sorry to hear about maverick's pain. I'm not a doctor, and I don't play one on TV but shingles is caused by a virus, not an external exposure to plants oils. Sounds like you need to see another doctor and get a second opinion ASAP. Besides, there is never any reason for a health professional to mistreat a kid, let alone misdiagnose.

I wasn't affected at all by PI or PO until about 5 years ago. I misused a string trimmer getting our old house ready for sale and now do get the occasional break out if I'm not careful where I step.

Rashes from PI and PO clear up; shingles is chronic. My step-grandmother had it for the last 15 years of her life and it was quite painful when it flared up. (She wasn't very nice to grandpa, and maybe even deserved some of the pain but that's a whole 'nother story )

11.3k · July 17, 2006

That Physician's Assistant was wrong . . . !

Shingles usually occurs in adults and only those who had Chicken Pox as children, as I understand it. The only people I have known who got shingles were older than 60.

We don't have Poison Ivy out here, so what we get are reactions to Poison Oak. I got into some and had blisters on the outside of my knee that itched. It took several weeks for it to finally clear up completely.

What I couldn't figure out was how I got it there because I was wearing long pants when we were on that hike.

July 17, 2006

Is there anyone here who has had both? Or known people to have them? Or anything like that.. that can tell me the differences?

Shingles are caused by re-activation of the virus that causes chicken pox. It usually occurs in older persons or people with immune suppression. It is painful and appears along dermatomes. You can search for a drawing of dermatomes and see if the rash matched one or more of these areas. As already mentioned, poison ivy and friends are caused by exposure to a plant oil. The rash tends to stay in the area of exposure unless touched and spread.

According to what we were looking at, both Poison Ivy and Poison Oak are caused by the same thing, so how is it possible that you can never get poison ivy but get poison oak repeatedly? Note that the two breakouts are both on his forehead above his right eye.

Poison ivy, poison oak and poison sumac are different plants and one can be allergic to one or two and not the others. So, yes it is possible to be allergic to poison oak and not poison ivy. I was at summer camp with someone that got poison oak (inhaled smoke from burning plant) and had to be hospitalized. She had never had poison ivy.

How does one prevent getting such a thing? Yeah, yeah, I know not to touch the plants, but we were in the woods at dusk and leaves just kinda looked green, etc.. When you're in shrubs up to your chest, you can't exactly tell what all is around you...

Try a brimmed hat to keep plants from hitting the face. Wash all exposed skins as soon as possible after being in the woods. Good luck!

2.5k · July 17, 2006

That Physician's Assistant was wrong . . . !

Shingles usually occurs in adults and only those who had Chicken Pox as children, as I understand it. The only people I have known who got shingles were older than 60.

We don't have Poison Ivy out here, so what we get are reactions to Poison Oak. I got into some and had blisters on the outside of my knee that itched. It took several weeks for it to finally clear up completely.

What I couldn't figure out was how I got it there because I was wearing long pants when we were on that hike.

Well, he had chicken pox as a kid. Another cause of shingles is MASSIVE stress and between moving 500 miles from the only area he's ever known as home, a number of other issues, finding a job, etc.. etc... there are a lot of stressers in his life.

But the more and more I see of poison oak, the more and more I see his rash being poison oak and not shingles.

ps.... wimseyguy.. Mav's not exactly a kid... He's more like in his 30s.

July 17, 2006

From what I understand shingles attack the nervous system and hurt like heck. Poison Oak/ Ivy while painfully itchy could not match the pain of shingles. People who have shingles usually require some sort of prescription pain killers.

2.5k · July 18, 2006

From what I understand shingles attack the nervous system and hurt like heck. Poison Oak/ Ivy while painfully itchy could not match the pain of shingles. People who have shingles usually require some sort of prescription pain killers.

Yes, but migranes hurt like heck, too, and in hindsight, it looks like what we thought was shingles was poison oak and a migrane. At least the more I've looked at it. For the record, he had a shingles prescription and popped about 20 Advil in three days because it was cheaper than the pain pill prescription.

I've surfed a number of nasty disgusting gross pic sites and aside from leaving me nauseus, shingles looks less and less like what he had.

I was really hoping that someone around here had suffered through both so they could tell us for certain the differences. Any caching doctors around?

July 18, 2006

I had shingles when I was 37. It comes from the chicken pox virus that lies dormant in a nerve until something triggers it. The doctor said that an injury to the spot where the virus is residing may trigger it. I dropped something under the kitchen table and went on my hands and knees to retrieve it. On the way out I misjudged where I was and when I stood up, the corner of the table got me in the back enough to get a sore that bled a little. About a week later, it still hadn't healed (still had a discharge) and sores appeared on my chest. I went to the doctor then, and he said shingles (actually he said herpes zoster) as soon as he saw it. He said the chicken pox virus had infected a nerve which ran from my back to chest. He said I was lucky because sometimes it's in a nerve on your face, causing scarring and possible eye damage. It was painful for about 3 weeks and was completely healed in less than 2 months. The doctor said that I healed unusually fast probably because of my age but depending on age and previous condition, it may last a year or more.

I never had poison ivy or oak. I suggest you see the real doctor and complain about the assistant. If it's by his eye, get to a doctor to make sure it won't cause eye damage.

July 18, 2006

What I couldn't figure out was how I got it there because I was wearing long pants when we were on that hike.

You can get an outbreak where ever you get the plant's volatile oils, including off the outside of your clothing as you are removing it, and off your dog even when you haven't been anywhere near the stuff.

My guess on the outbreak/migraine: if the patient begins a migraine with an "aura" effect, he may have brushed his face with his [contaminated] hand unconsciously trying to clear his vision, or to soothe the oncoming headache. What a combination.

2.5k · July 18, 2006

I had shingles when I was 37.

I never had poison ivy or oak.

Were your spots tiny blistery patches roughly the size of a half dollar? The spot on Mav's forehead before was about half an inch in diameter wide, and slightly longer. This time it's a little smaller.

Unfortunately for us, the clinic we went to (which is what you *have* to go to if you don't schedule an appointment) is led by a doctor that never leaves his office unless the PA decides to admit ignorance and ask for a second opinion. She charged us $120 for a visit that consisted of her walking in the room and saying shingles and being done with us, then gave him three prescriptions that totalled $200+... One was a $117 version of neosporin. The walmart brand is a larger tube for $3. He got the prescription for the shingles meds, which he took all of, and we said screw it to the prescription pain stuff and the neosporin crap.

10.1k · July 18, 2006

I actually had shingles when I was about 15. They went away, and never returned, so it might have been a bad diagnosis. But that was a long time ago. It was a fist-sized collection of small bumps. I did have chicken pox as a child.

Last year, I had a wonderful case of allergic dermatitis, which probably started from poison ivy. Unlike poison ivy, it spread all over. Prednisone cured that (and made me hell to live with for two weeks.)

July 19, 2006

Also not a doctor, just played one in the Army.

The varicella virus that causes shingles (and chicken pox) does cause herpetic lesions. These do look very similar in appearance to poison ivy when they first erupt.

Shingles will also be limited to one zone of the body that is is served by the afflicted nerve. For this reason it could also be mistaken for poison ivy. And vice versa.

July 19, 2006

I've been working property we recently aquired that is loaded with every form of poison ivy/oak/sumac. The first few times I got hit really bad. I was careful to not touch any of the plants, but I petted the dog, and worse, when I came in from outside, I didn't immediately change. The best way to keep from getting this stuff on you is to implement strict protocols when you're out in the woods. Even if you don't think you were exposed, you should generally immediately change clothes and take a warm soapy shower when you get in. In the summer here, we also have ticks and chiggers... I haven't been hit by poison ivy in awhile now that I'm being careful, but chiggers are still a problem. However, we've discovered that dusting with powdered sulfur before going out really keeps them away.

The best solution for poison ivy and its variants that I've found, once you get it, is Zanfel.. this stuff seems to cost more than plutonium, but when you have that burning itch, it does work.

July 20, 2006

OK... so, I'm a botanist ( and not a doctor, so take the following for what it is worth... free advice) and also a heavy poison ivy sufferer... For years, I was just hyper-paranoid about the stuff, which is a really good precaution, unless you're trying to cache in the SE and Texas. If you avoided all caches away from PI, then you'd be stuck with parking lot caches and that just is no fun. Happily, a few years ago, I went to the dermatologist for a little skin issue other than PI... while I was there, I asked about PI. He prescribed zyrtec and I have hoarded those beautiful little pills like they were gold. As long as I take them before the blisters break, then the rash goes away, usually with one pill. If I take them after the blisters break, doesn't do much good. As I'm running low on pills and often find myself without them... my mother in law, also a nurse practitioner, gives me allegra. Seems to work just as well. Claritin is now over the counter, I've not tried it specifically for PI, but have no reason to believe that it wouldn't work. Just make sure to follow the directions on the box.

And... if you have more questions, a great info page on PI/PO/PS is http://poisonivy.aesir.com/ The only real thing that i have found lacking in the site is a good map detailing where each plant can be found... but for all those in Texas, trust me, it's PI. It also has some nice pictures of rashes, some PI and others not. So, you might want to compare your rash to the pictures and maybe that would help with the shingles issue? And, as far as icky doctors go... if you can, go somewhere else!

July 20, 2006

When I had shingles they started out as one bump which I thought was a bug bite. Started out itchy. The area began to swell and hurt like you wouldn't believe. I had a red spot on my nose and the bump above my eyebrow. I could follow the nerve up over and down the back of my head when I combed my hair. Never got blisters. The pain was intense.

When I have had poison ivy it get blistery and weepy and is just in one area. Itch, but no pain.

7.3k · July 20, 2006

I've had both. Poison ivy itches, shingles hurt.

2.2k · July 20, 2006

i had shingles when i was in the 7th grade. it started with a sharp pain in my back and progressed to a line of very painful blisters halfway around my body that followed my bra line. they lasted about 2 months.

July 20, 2006

My son in law had shingles a few months ago he is 30. Since my daughter never had chicken pox as a child she then got chicken pox. She was much sicker than he was. He got a patch on his chest and she had them everywhere including in her mouth.

I have seen posion ivy on a guy at work I dont think they look at all the same. The poison ivy was more of a red rash where the pox was individual bumps.

July 20, 2006

In my late 40's I had shingles above one of my eyes. It hurt more than itched. The hurt is a strong stinging sensation. Doctor gave me some topical cream and some pills. It took four months for it to go away. I still have mild (but manageable) stinging sensations in the same area on rare occasions, but not physically noticable like it was (nastly looking stuff). The doctor said it never really "goes away," but lies dormant. At least it didn't get in my eyes, thank goodness. I'm 55 now and doing fine.

BTW, poison ivy/oak itches like the dickens. I don't get either one too often, and when I do, it's not that bad.

Edited July 20, 2006 by BVCY Swim

July 20, 2006

Were your spots tiny blistery patches roughly the size of a half dollar? The spot on Mav's forehead before was about half an inch in diameter wide, and slightly longer. This time it's a little smaller.

Yes, could be. It started as one spot, then followed a line from my back around to my chest. As others have said, they hurt!

2.2k · July 20, 2006

Were your spots tiny blistery patches roughly the size of a half dollar? The spot on Mav's forehead before was about half an inch in diameter wide, and slightly longer. This time it's a little smaller.

Yes, could be. It started as one spot, then followed a line from my back around to my chest. As others have said, they hurt!

dem's be shingles! :lol:

July 25, 2006

the poison ivy rash is cause by exposure to the skin irritant oil in the plant. While this oil is on your body, clothes, dog, etc. it can be transferred by contact. In some cases it can cause a severe allergic reaction with swelling, headache, fever, and severe blistering on the exposed area.

The headache seems to indicate a severe allergic reaction. Not necessarily poison ivy, posion oak, or poison sumack. Some people have a skin sensitivity to the psyllium fibers on grass leaves. Certain broadleaf plants can be more harmful that PI.

July 25, 2006

I just had a similar experience. Never quite sure what my exact exposure was (ivy / oak...or other).

Day prior spent it caching, several times I put my arm somewhere it probably shouldn't have been without thinking...it was a road trip so was not able to get myself scrubbed down until hours later.

Woke up feeling fine. Began to feel a burning on my arm, saw what looked to be small black splinters. Burned and ached all day.

Within several days the arm was swollen, some itched, but mostly it was a painful, scabby rash. I still thought, poison ivy, but wasnt sure so made an appointment with the doctor (was painful enough for me to even consider heading off to the ER when I couldn't get an apppointment right away).

Docotor took one look and said "it can't be poison ivy - poison ivy doesn't hurt..also it doesn't appear until 3 days after exposure...you have shingles." Basically said I would be in pain for a loooong time, gave me anti-viral medications that made me feel horrible and sent me on my way.

By the next day, it didn't hurt (I hadn't taken the medications). It began to itch more and more and more and more. I began to suspect the doctor was wrong.

I volunteer at a camp on Sundays, while there I showed it to the well seasoned camp nurse who took one look at it and said "poison something"...handed me a steroid cream and gave me some good advise on controling itching.

Within several days it was gone.

I would suggest heading off for a second opinion...doctors can be wrong!

July 26, 2006

I've had both shingles and poison oak.

Poison oak itches like crazy. mine alway blistered and weeped.

My experience with shingles will contradict what most say about it.

When I first noticed the shingles I was outside and it started itching so I scratched what I thought was a bug bite. That was a saturday. it itched for a few days. on monday I showed it to my mother who is an RN and the first words out of her mouth were "It looks like shingles."

So I go to the docter and get the $200 worth of herpes medicine and take it over the next week. Then it started itching again and whent away. That was three weeks ago, and you can still see where they were, but it sllooks more like a bruise than a rash now. They never hurt, and never got much bigger of an area than a silver dollar thought more egg shaped than round.

I had no pain at all, just the itch.

Had it not been where it was I would have thought it was poison oak, but I hadn't been out side in the woods, or had any contact with the stuff on my back, and had it no where else.

I am 28.

if it itches the whole time it is there it is probably poison ivy oak or sumac.

4.5k · July 26, 2006

When I had shingles they started out as one bump which I thought was a bug bite. Started out itchy. The area began to swell and hurt like you wouldn't believe. I had a red spot on my nose and the bump above my eyebrow. I could follow the nerve up over and down the back of my head when I combed my hair. Never got blisters. The pain was intense.

When I have had poison ivy it get blistery and weepy and is just in one area. Itch, but no pain.

I had been diagnosed as having shingles about 2 years ago, i was 45. Your symptoms described that ailment almost to a tee, only thing different was that i didn't have that much pain. Went out last Saturday to place a cache and climbed a poison ivy/oak (i don't know the difference) hairy vine ladened tree. Needless to say, now im itching on the inside of both my arms and between my fingers on both hands. I don't break out much and theres no pain involved but this itch is annoying as all get out. :unsure:

3.2k · July 26, 2006

......

Poison ivy, poison oak and poison sumac are different plants and one can be allergic to one or two and not the others. So, yes it is possible to be allergic to poison oak and not poison ivy. I was at summer camp with someone that got poison oak (inhaled smoke from burning plant) and had to be hospitalized. She had never had poison ivy.

They are different plants but the irritant is the same chemical, urushiol, so if you get one you can get them all. Re the summer camp example... people that have been "immune" for years can suddenly develop a case, so had she been exposed to a similar quantity of PI at that time she probably would have had the same experience.

August 23, 2006

anyone try the buji products for poison ivy/oak? They've been sending samples to geocaching events this year.

Poison Oak/ivy Question

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