When Do I Log A Dnf?

[+crystalndave]

My dear partner in life and geocaching are relatively new. The one thing I am confused on is did not find logs. When am I suppsed to write them? I haven't written any yet and there are lots of caches that I didn't actually find. For example, we pull up to a cache site, its a busy park, 30 kids around.. we don't get out of the car because there will be another time to do it. Should I log it a dnf? I would think I would only log a DNF if actually really tried to look for it and we couldn't find it?? So far that has only happened once or twice. I see some caches people have said "this was my third attempt.." do they log three dnf logs first? Does it matter? I have read that everyone plays their own game and its not about the numbers and I certainly don't log finds that haven't found so how important are DNF? I am a real rule follower so i will do what I am supposed to do, even if the dnfs do hurt my little itty bitty ego.

 

Also when I see DNF on a log of a cache I tend not to look for it. I figure if they can't find it must not be there. Seems like a few caches I have found people have been sort of quick to say "its not their, I didn't find it." Is there a way to write a DNF like " it could be there and I just didn't see it?"

 

I also kind of think its not a DNF its more like a dnf YET. Sometimes I can only take hanging around looking suspicious for so long before I think people will call the police. I plan to visit a few places like this again.

I have looked for this topic so I appologize if it exists somewhere else. Thanks in advance for any help that you could give me.

[+lindsychris]

Everytime you look for a cache, and don't find it, you need to log a DNF.

 

As a cache owner, this is often the only way we're alerted to possible problems with our caches. If you look for it 10 times, and don't find it in any of those trips, we're expecting to see 10 DNFs.

 

As far as WHEN to say that you looked and didn't find it, that's a personal choice. For some, if they pulled up at the park and didn't get out because of muggles, they'd log a DNF. For us, the rule is if we look, but can't find the cache, we log a DNF. If we can't look for some reason (most recently because I can't make it to the cache site b/c of my broken foot), they we normally post a note.

 

But PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE if you look and can't find it, log a DNF!

[+Jhwk]

ditto lindsychris. Most of my DNF's were a result of a container gone bad. But there are a few that were tougher than I originally expected. No find? Then DNF.

[+ajayhawkfan]

ditto lindsychris. Most of my DNF's were a result of a container gone bad. But there are a few that were tougher than I originally expected. No find? Then DNF.

If I look for a cache and can't find it I DNF. If I drive by and can't look I'll write a note.

 

As a cache owner I will not give out a hint unless there is a DNF.

[+Prime Suspect]

Did Not Find implies that there was a search attempt made. Only post one if you actually made an attempt to find it. Many GPX programs attempt to display the "health" of a cache by showing the recent log types. People posting DNFs when they haven't actually looked for the cache give a false impression that the cache may be missing, when in fact they simply didn't (or couldn't) look for it at that time.

[+tozainamboku]

I also kind of think its not a DNF its more like a dnf YET.

 

Sounds to me like you have the right attitude. Log the DNF when you feel you have something to say about your hunt that you want to share. Log a DNF when you think you've done enough for you to count it as a cache hunt. I log all my DNFs so I can calculate my caching percentage ( number of find / total times I went looking for a cache). Of course, like other geocaching statistics some people will count a DNF if they just think about stopping to look for a cache while others will only count if the stopped and looked for at least a certain time. Unlike other who have posted, while I believe you should log every hunt, I can't really object to those only log a DNF when they think a cache is really missing or when they don't intend to come back and search some more.

Edited July 16, 2006 by tozainamboku

[+kyot]

As a newbi...

 

... if I've logged a DNF, gone back, found it... That's a new log entry or amend my previous entry (lets say in theis case the cache was healthy, I just missed it)?

Edited July 16, 2006 by kyot

[+briansnat]

My personal criteria for a DNF is that if I punch in the coordinates in my unit and hit Go To and do not come up with the cache (for whaterver reason) its a DNF. Others won't log one unless they actually reached ground zero and searched. I think either is fine, just do what works for you.

 

As a cache owner, this is often the only way we're alerted to possible problems with our caches. If you look for it 10 times, and don't find it in any of those trips, we're expecting to see 10 DNFs.

 

I agree. DNFs are an important piece of information to the owner and general community. As a cache owner I find it annoying when I see a log saying "Found it on my 5th attempt" but I don't see any previous DNFs. How am I supposed to know that perhaps the cache is a bit tougher than I think it is and adjust the rating accordingly?

 

As a searcher, if I look at the logs and see nothing but "found its", I'll expect the cache to be a pretty easy find. If I get there and don't come up with the cache right away I'm likely to assume its missing. If on the other hand, I see DNFs sprinkled throughout the logs I'll know that the cache isn't a slam dunk find and put in the extra time to find it.

 

if I've logged a DNF, gone back, found it... That's a new log entry or amend my previous entry (lets say in theis case the cache was healthy, I just missed it)?

 

You should enter a new found it log rather than amend the previous entry. First off, the owner does not get notification of amended logs, so he won't see your log unless he looks at the page. Second, you are altering the history of the cache. As I mentioned earlier, DNFs are important information. By erasing them you are depriving the community of this info.

[+crystalndave]

All of your answers sound resonable and from now on I will log them if I believe I have put effort into locating them. We are paperless so when we leave the house we have access to what seems like a billion caches. If we actually get to the spot where it should be and we still can't find it I will log a DNF.

 

One more question. Should I DNF a virtual if I didn't get enough info while I was there? I can't post a find obviously because I wasn't given permission to by the owner.

Edited July 16, 2006 by crystalndave

[+Miragee]

I would probably write a Note in that case. I log either a DNF if I got to the coordinates and couldn't find the cache either because I just couldn't find it, or if muggles prevented me from looking any further, or if I ran out of time to do a more thorough search, or whatever . . .

 

By logging a Note (or a DNF), you are letting the cache owner know you were interested in the cache and made an attempt.

[+KG1960]

An interesting thread. I had not thought about the value a DNF might be to the cache owner, so now I'll log a DNF (actually, so far there has been only one DNF out 21 attempts - I'm new). That one is one where I actually got to the coordinates and spent some time looking without success.

 

An example of when I would not post a DNF is like this: There is state park near me that has several caches in it. I programed about 10 of them into my GPSr before leaving home. We looked for and found 5 of them, and then ran out of time and had to get back home. I did not post a DNF for the ones we didn't look for even though we had intentions to do so. Is this correct thinking?

 

Virtual cache question: We went on vacation to Colorado in June and found (I think) three virtual caches. Two of them were fill in the blanks with information from historical marker signs. I'm certain I got these right. The third was just describe what you see at the coordinates. I emailed, as instructed, the owners with my results. I haven't heard a thing from anybody. I posted that I found these, but should I have done so?

[+Miragee]

I agree with your thinking about the DNFs in that park. I will only log a DNF if I actually get to GZ and get a chance to look for a little while.

 

For Virtual caches, I log my find at the same time I send the email to the cache owner. Some Virtual cache owners are not that active anymore, but if you got to the location and fulfilled the requirement, you can log the find and get the smiley.

 

The only exception is if the cache owner asks you to wait for confirmation before you log your find.

[+crystalndave]

OK, I logged my first dnf. It was really motivating and I went back the next day and got it. Only bad thing about the pda is no pictures on the road! If I would have had the pic I would have had it the first day! Thanks for the help..

 

The virtual that I found was denied permission from the owner to log as a find, I didn't have the info he was looking for. So I just left it alone. Maybe I will go back someday, maybe I won't. I didn't get a smiley but I know I was there, I guess that is what counts.

[+GrateBear]

As I'm new to this, I'm a bit hesitant about logging a DNF. Instead, I check the log to see it it's been found within a week or so of when I've looked for it. Most times, someone else has found it, so I figure that's not a reason to DNF. Is that reasonable?

[+JDandDD]

As I'm new to this, I'm a bit hesitant about logging a DNF. Instead, I check the log to see it it's been found within a week or so of when I've looked for it. Most times, someone else has found it, so I figure that's not a reason to DNF. Is that reasonable?

Don't hesitate. There's no shame in a DNF and it is information. We've all had the experience of not finding a cache and then someone else does. One of the useful pieces of information that gives is that it might be harder than you thought or the cache owner intended. I have a difficult cache that gets DNFs and finds, because of that I upped the difficult rating. It helped me decide on a better rating and lets others know what they are up against.

 

On a different point, I DNF if I tried to find the cache. I don't if I ran out of time and didn't try.

 

JDandDD

[+Davispak]

The rule of thumb I use is as follows:

 

If i go to the cache area, but for some reason can't hunt it (people in area, unforseen hazard, flooding, snakes) I write a note to let the owner know I came by but could not hunt it

 

If I go to the area and look for the cache in posted area, but can't find, that is a DNF. It is not failure or a black mark, it is just saying I did not see the cache there. Is the cache gone? Who knows, that is for the owner to determine. Not me, not the next guy, the owner.

 

Same scenario, but find what looks like could be the remains of the cache ( stuff scattered in area that looks like cache swag) This is STILL a DNF. I did not sign the log so no find. I post the DNF with comments, then post a Needs Maintenance log describing what I saw and maybe even include photo of items.

 

That is my rules I use for myself when it comes to DNF. You should develop your own rules to follow.

[+briansnat]

As I'm new to this, I'm a bit hesitant about logging a DNF. Instead, I check the log to see it it's been found within a week or so of when I've looked for it. Most times, someone else has found it, so I figure that's not a reason to DNF. Is that reasonable?

 

No. The reason to log a DNF is because you didn't find a cache. If its actually missing, by your not logging a DNF it will take longer for a pattern of DNFs to develop and alert the owner that there is a problem. If its not missing, how is the owner going to know if perhaps that 1 star difficulty cache might need to be bumped to 2 stars?

 

Another bonus is that if you log a DNF, some owners may offer a better hint. If you aren't logging DNFs there is no chance of getting additional help from the owner.

[+humanloofa]

If you go to the location and do not find it, it is a dnf. If you get in the general area and don't even look for it, that would be a note. Also I like to add all DNF's to my watchlist, so that way I know if it is there or not.

[+gps_junky]

Whatever works for you! I every once in a while log a DNF. Most of the time it will be after the 2nd attempt for me. And if someone else puts a DNF, that dosn't 100% mean that its not there. It just means that for whatever reason they Didn't Find it. I would hope that you along with everyone else will put the reason why they wern't able to find it. Putting a Note for your sit. with the kids would sound a little better tho. Most of the time I look at the overall Dificulty rating. If its a 1 and I spend 30 minutes at GZ. This is usualy a time I will request that it be archived. If its a rating of 4 or 5, and I spend 6 hours on it, Its a DNF. I will also perhaps ask the owner for a hint at this time. But I would say a DNF would be right if you; Getting too tired to spend much more time on it. Take a close look at the Dificulty when you start getting dis. I guess take a look at everything regarding the cache, Size, Diff, Notes, Hints, and maybe type. I felt real dumb when I spent 2 hours looking around a sign in the woods thinking I was going to find a cache when it was a vertual.

[George & Christina]

A DNF is also appropriate (and welcome by others) in cases where you could not get to a cache site because of things like snow. If I see a DNF like that, I will either attempt the cache when the snows have melted, or will pack snow gear along. In either case the DNF is a welcome piece of information. Another example, in oiur area a couple of caches are within an area (a mountaintop) blocked off by the police for a couple of days. I am grateful to the geocacher who attemted the cache, got turned back, and then posted his DNF to let us know not to attempt the cache for a few days.

[+crystalndave]

You guys are really nice to answer my questions. I have been racking up the did not finds like crazy!! Not on purpose.. really.....

[+Renegade Knight]

I log them when I have given it the freshman try and could not find the cache. If I break my leg, it gets dark, get called to work, blow up my car etc. it's not the cleverness of the hide that got me. Those are notes.

 

Sometimes I'll give up looking just because I'm not having fun anymore. I log those as DNF's since even though I could of looked more, I've given up looking all. Since no outside reason got in the way it's a DNF.

Edited July 24, 2006 by Renegade Knight

[+Team Neos]

As I'm new to this, I'm a bit hesitant about logging a DNF. Instead, I check the log to see it it's been found within a week or so of when I've looked for it. Most times, someone else has found it, so I figure that's not a reason to DNF. Is that reasonable?

I'd log the DNF> I log mine anytime I have information that may help someone else decide how long it will take them to find the cache. If one out of every four people who go to look for it don't find it, that indicates to me it might take more than a few minutes of looking to find it. If no one ever logs a DNF, and no one says anything about looking for a long time, I get discouraged if I get there and look for 15 minutes and don't see it.

 

If something in the area other than the cache keeps me from looking, I log that too--or at least note it. Things like too many people around, too much snow, road construction keeping me from getting there all get logged one way or another. For me personally it's a DNF if I pull onto the street I intend to park on to hunt the cache.

 

The only time I don't make some kind of note at all is if something personal keeps me from looking. For instance, no one will benefit from learning that I realized it was time to pick up my son from work and didn't even turn down the street the cache was on.