Australian Trig Points (like Benchmarks)

[Aushiker]

G'day

 

The managment group, Australian Trig Points, has finished working up a new waymark category based on Australian Trig Points, bit like benchmarks. Your support of the category which is now at peer review would be appreciated. You can vote here.

 

Thanks

Andrew

[+Black Dog Trackers]

I like this category, of course.

 

However, I worry a lot about a scope issue with it. In your Description, your group has specified that the category will only accept Australia-wide survey marks. However, your proposed category name doesn't say that. This gets into the complex issue explored here. I could be misunderstanding the Australian trigpoints situation, but I am assuming here that there is a set of Australia-wide trigpoints, a set of NSW trigpoints, a set of WA trigpoints, a set of Melbourne trigpoints, etc., and you only want to accept the first set.

 

To put it more explicitly, if another group wanted to make a category for all the rest of the survey marks in Australia that weren't the Australia-wide survey marks, what would they call this new category? Maybe Australian Trig Points That Are Not Australia-Wide Trigpoints?

 

This could also be engendering a situation with a hundred different Australian trigpoint categories - one each for NT, SA, NSW, and each city and town. It's better, I think, to have just one category, like the Recovered US Benchmarks category, which has U.S.-wide marks, state marks, county marks, city and town marks, etc.; all allowed.

 

I suggest some options:

 

1. Re-title your category to "Australia Wide Trigpoints", because that is what it really is, as currently described. Unless I'm mistunderstanding something about Australian trigpoints, your category is really a subset of 'Australian Trigpoints'.

 

2. Accept all the official-looking (however you want to describe that) Australian trigpoints and have a variable like Benchmark Agency. In the Recovered U.S. Benchmark category, we have this variable and increase its list as needed. Feel free to enter that category and click on "Record Waymark" and then click on Benchmark Agency to see the list. Only the first 19 are U.S.-wide.

 

3. Accept all the official-looking Australian trigpoints, and have a variable called Region or geographic unit or something and have "Australia Wide" be one of the options.

 

I will vote yes on this category regardless, but wanted to bring up this issue here since it is of general Waymarking concept interest. After the above topic was aired, I noticed newer State Historical Marker categories specifically stating that they would allow any type of historical marker in the state, not just the statewide type.

[Aushiker]

I like this category, of course.

Great and thanks for your comments.

 

However, I worry a lot about a scope issue with it. In your Description, your group has specified that the category will only accept Australia-wide survey marks. However, your proposed category name doesn't say that. This gets into the complex issue explored here. I could be misunderstanding the Australian trigpoints situation, but I am assuming here that there is a set of Australia-wide trigpoints, a set of NSW trigpoints, a set of WA trigpoints, a set of Melbourne trigpoints, etc., and you only want to accept the first set.

I am not sure of what you see as being the issue, the category is for Australia wide survey points known as Trig Points. Trig Points are a distinct type of survey marker and are they are same in Australia, New Zealand and the UK. They are the same right across Australia. You can read more about them in the Wiki. That said I will tighten up the wording to refer to just Australian Trig Points or trigonometrical stations.

 

To put it more explicitly, if another group wanted to make a category for all the rest of the survey marks in Australia that weren't the Australia-wide survey marks, what would they call this new category? Maybe Australian Trig Points That Are Not Australia-Wide Trigpoints?

The proposed category is about one specific distinct type of survey marker, know as Trig Points. Trig Points are well documented on all state produced topographical maps and are listed at Geoscience Australia. Other Australian markers defined by the Intergovernmental Committee on Surveying and Mapping are outside the scope of this category, therefore other persons could create categories for them if they so wish. For what it is worth, this issue of a wider category incorporating a diverse range of survey markers was discussed on the Geocaching Australia forums and rejected as getting way to messy to manage with different names and formats used in different states. Trig Points are consistent accross Australia in their concept.

 

This could also be engendering a situation with a hundred different Australian trigpoint categories - one each for NT, SA, NSW, and each city and town.

Of course someone could try and put up a category for Trig Points in a particulary state. That could happen irrespective of how this category is worded. BTW we only have six states and two terrorities

 

It's better, I think, to have just one category, like the Recovered US Benchmarks category, which has U.S.-wide marks, state marks, county marks, city and town marks, etc.; all allowed.

This was discussed within the Australian geocaching community and rejected as there are way too many different types of survey marks, varying between States and it would become messy. Trig Points are distinct category, often located on high points, many kilometres apart. They are frequently scenic locations or hard spots to walk to and are very useful for bushwalkers etc. They are also marked on topographical maps.

1. Re-title your category to "Australia Wide Trigpoints", because that is what it really is, as currently described. Unless I'm mistunderstanding something about Australian trigpoints, your category is really a subset of 'Australian Trigpoints'

It is not a subset of anything. They are just Trig Points, so for the Australian context the title should be okay.

2. Accept all the official-looking (however you want to describe that) Australian trigpoints and have a variable like Benchmark Agency.

The problem I think with this suggestion is you are applying US practices outside of the US. There is not a benchmark agency in Australia as such putting in place Trig Points. Trig Points where put in place as part of a 1970s Australian wide survey project. Furthermore current survey practices in Australia are overseen by the Intergovernmental Committtee on Surveying and Mapping.

3. Accept all the official-looking Australian trigpoints, and have a variable called Region or geographic unit or something and have "Australia Wide" be one of the options.

I see no problem with a locating variable, e.g., State and I like the idea, but other than that this is again a US solution not applicable in Australia. Any questionable waymark submissions can be checked against topographical maps and/or the Geoscience Australia database plus I have a database of trig points.

I will vote yes on this category regardless, but wanted to bring up this issue here since it is of general Waymarking concept interest.

Thanks and thanks for your feedback. For what it is worth we actually discussed this category widely in the Australian forums before finalising its format. It is reflective of the Austrlaian scence and was refined in those discussions. If you are interested you can find the thread here. Also there was a previous locationless cache for Trig Points which I understand may have preceeded the Gc.com benchmarking project. However the cache was not policed as well as it could have been and some non-trig point survey markers crept in. I guess that is always a risk with most categories.

 

Regards

Andrew

Edited July 14, 2006 by Aushiker

[+Black Dog Trackers]

OK, cool. Thank you for answering my comments, I can see now that the Australian situation is quite different than here in the U.S. I will enjoy looking at the pictures of the Australian trigpionts in this category as it grows!

 

Hopefully there will be some good scenery shots as well. I like to put the eye-catching ones here in the benchmark photo 'contest'.

[Aushiker]

No worries Black Dog Tracker. I do appreciate your comments and will be doing some fine tuning based on your feedback assuming of course the category is approved.

 

That will have to wait, however, until my return. Off for a week in the fourbie, camping, geocaching, Waymarking, plane wreck searching, exploring an old gold mine and gear testing in a sweep through the wheatbelt into the goldfields of WA and back again.

 

Hope everyone has a great week and plays nice

 

Regards

Andrew

[+Snuva]

I will enjoy looking at the pictures of the Australian trigpionts in this category as it grows!

You will indeed enjoy seeing the photos from our trig points - pretty much a guarantee of splendid scenery, especially when we get some Tasmanian trigs listed

[Aushiker]

Hi

 

Thanks for all the support, The category is now up and running.

 

Regards

Andrew