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"promoting A Religious Agenda" ?


Tir19 & GreenTerra

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I've been called on it by a reviewer and have edited my description of a new cache I placed.

This, however puts a kink into my plans to do a 'religious diversity series' which started with a

'PAGAN' theme and was to continue with Christian, Jewish, Buddist etc. But now I'm looking

to find which guideline I violated. Can anyone point me to what I missed?

The 'guidelines for listing a cache' or 'the terms of use agreement' on the cache listing page

don't cover it.

Any help will be greatfully appreciated!

P.S. It was originally approved and a 'complaint' caused POFE to ask I edit the listing.

Thanks

Lew

(aka Tir19)

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Commercial Caches/Caches that solicit

Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services.

 

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

Some exceptions can be made. In these rare situations, permission can be given by the Geocaching.com web site. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first.

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Well, I was going to say that if you kept the series strictly informational, it might be publishable. But what is informational to one person, may be considered sacrilege to another. I'd look elsewhere for your series.

 

Educational material on different cultures is apparently offensive to everybody. I've noticed that with a lot of other things -- don't want to offend somebody! I think I'm going to just lock myself up in my house to prevent myself from hurting somebody's feelings. :laughing:

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Well, I was going to say that if you kept the series strictly informational, it might be publishable. But what is informational to one person, may be considered sacrilege to another. I'd look elsewhere for your series.

 

Educational material on different cultures is apparently offensive to everybody. I've noticed that with a lot of other things -- don't want to offend somebody! I think I'm going to just lock myself up in my house to prevent myself from hurting somebody's feelings. :laughing:

 

I'm QUITE offended that you make light of my severe Agoraphobia. Has anyone notified LE yet?

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Well, I was going to say that if you kept the series strictly informational, it might be publishable. But what is informational to one person, may be considered sacrilege to another. I'd look elsewhere for your series.

 

Educational material on different cultures is apparently offensive to everybody. I've noticed that with a lot of other things -- don't want to offend somebody! I think I'm going to just lock myself up in my house to prevent myself from hurting somebody's feelings. :laughing:

 

I'm QUITE offended that you make light of my severe Agoraphobia. Has anyone notified LE yet?

 

Haha, thanks for the laugh. :anicute:

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I'm new to caching and hardly a religious zealot. LOL! :laughing:

 

However, this is one of the rules I have to say I don't quite understand. I mean, as long as you post the purpose of the cache in the description, isn't it then up to the cacher to decide if they want to visit it or not?

 

Seeing there are a number of Halloween and Easter (et al) themed caches it seems to depend more on degree of commercialization than anything else.

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Thanks for the replies! I see where I went wrong. I actually read those but, not intending to promote any pertiucular agenda, did not 'see' it that way. (Hanging head in shame). But since someone does, I guess my series is on the back burner for now and will need much rethinking if i'm ever to pull it off.

 

Keep on Caching!

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I've been called on it by a reviewer and have edited my description of a new cache I placed.

This, however puts a kink into my plans to do a 'religious diversity series' which started with a

'PAGAN' theme and was to continue with Christian, Jewish, Buddist etc. But now I'm looking

to find which guideline I violated. Can anyone point me to what I missed?

The 'guidelines for listing a cache' or 'the terms of use agreement' on the cache listing page

don't cover it.

Any help will be greatfully appreciated!

P.S. It was originally approved and a 'complaint' caused POFE to ask I edit the listing.

Thanks

Lew

(aka Tir19)

 

I think it's sad that someone complained about that.

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Thanks for the replies! I see where I went wrong. I actually read those but, not intending to promote any pertiucular agenda, did not 'see' it that way. (Hanging head in shame). But since someone does, I guess my series is on the back burner for now and will need much rethinking if i'm ever to pull it off.

 

Keep on Caching!

 

Take heart! The problem is often not with the cache idea but with others' reactions. ... Yes, Virginia, it's a PC world and we all have to get along.

 

Perhaps a variation on your theme would be to locate caches near sites that fit your theme. Near religious sites, memorials, etc. You have to be careful about the "public land" placement rules but you might have a winner there. The cache contents need not be of a religious nature but a tribute to an early Catholic missionary, Johnny Appleseed, an abandoned graveyard of a long-gone church, a particularly striking cathedral ...

 

As a devout atheist, I have no problem appreciating the beliefs of others.

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Thanks for the replies! I see where I went wrong. I actually read those but, not intending to promote any pertiucular agenda, did not 'see' it that way. (Hanging head in shame). But since someone does, I guess my series is on the back burner for now and will need much rethinking if i'm ever to pull it off.

 

Keep on Caching!

 

Take heart! The problem is often not with the cache idea but with others' reactions. ... Yes, Virginia, it's a PC world and we all have to get along.

 

Perhaps a variation on your theme would be to locate caches near sites that fit your theme. Near religious sites, memorials, etc. You have to be careful about the "public land" placement rules but you might have a winner there. The cache contents need not be of a religious nature but a tribute to an early Catholic missionary, Johnny Appleseed, an abandoned graveyard of a long-gone church, a particularly striking cathedral ...

 

As a devout atheist, I have no problem appreciating the beliefs of others.

 

I hope he does one in tribute to FSM. It's only fair. ; )

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... perhaps an Amish theme?

No coordinates. Just a text reading: "Ye go north on the county road to Yoder's wellhouse, then go right a bit across the pasture. Make sure ye close the gate and keep an eye out for ol' Rufus, if he's rutting you may want to come back later. Then you go under that big sign the English put up and keep going along the crick to a big stump ..."

 

... perhaps a Zen theme?

No coords, you just have to truly BE there to find it.

 

.... perhaps a Satanic theme?

"Get the fresh blood of a young goat ...."

 

..... an animist theme?

Do not walk on the grass as the spirits of the lea will seek their revenge. Walk only upon the stones abut be sure to thank them each time.

 

... a truly atheistic theme?

"I don't believe there's really a cache in there. ... Oooh, a smiley just popped up on my computer."

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Where I've been checking caches lately, it's very religious. I am running across cachers with "bible" in their name and crosses in the caches. It has become obvious some use the hobby to promote their particular religious views. I don't have a problem with this as long as these same people are open-minded about contrary views, but the problem is, as evidenced in this thread, they're not, and that's what I have an issue with.

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Where I've been checking caches lately, it's very religious. I am running across cachers with "bible" in their name and crosses in the caches. It has become obvious some use the hobby to promote their particular religious views. I don't have a problem with this as long as these same people are open-minded about contrary views, but the problem is, as evidenced in this thread, they're not, and that's what I have an issue with.

Then the area you're caching in reflects the personalities of those visiting the caches. If you were caching in an urban area there would be cache contents that would reflect the area, local sports team items. car wash tokens, pens imprinted with the name of a local insurance company ... no more, no less. If a cacher leaves a coupon for 5 free wings from Hooters they are not necessarily promoting the bar as they are reflecting their own interests in what others will think would be good swag.

 

Look at the flip side; would you want to be out caching with your kids and find porn and booze?

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Thanks for the replies! I see where I went wrong. I actually read those but, not intending to promote any pertiucular agenda, did not 'see' it that way. (Hanging head in shame). But since someone does, I guess my series is on the back burner for now and will need much rethinking if i'm ever to pull it off.

 

Keep on Caching!

 

Take heart! The problem is often not with the cache idea but with others' reactions. ... Yes, Virginia, it's a PC world and we all have to get along.

 

Perhaps a variation on your theme would be to locate caches near sites that fit your theme. Near religious sites, memorials, etc. You have to be careful about the "public land" placement rules but you might have a winner there. The cache contents need not be of a religious nature but a tribute to an early Catholic missionary, Johnny Appleseed, an abandoned graveyard of a long-gone church, a particularly striking cathedral ...

 

As a devout atheist, I have no problem appreciating the beliefs of others.

 

I hope he does one in tribute to FSM. It's only fair. ; )

 

Filled with Geocoins? :D

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I don't see anything wrong with an informational cache series. In my area, we have a series called The Word. The cache description is just basic cache information. But if you need a hint, you have to look up Bible verses. The series seems well received. I haven't heard anything negative said about it.

 

I'm sure you wouldn't, but imagine if someone did a series where you had to look up things in the Koran or Mein Kampf or, heaven forbid, a book written by Michael Moore? Chances are people would complain. Ironically, it would be those who seem to love to make fun of how "PC" the liberals claim to be.

Edited by arpegio
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Well, I was going to say that if you kept the series strictly informational, it might be publishable. But what is informational to one person, may be considered sacrilege to another. I'd look elsewhere for your series.

 

Or pushy, at least.

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Most people like christmas. I just wrote a letter to the reviewer asking if a christmas theme cache would be acceptable. It would contain some christmas ornaments, winter decorations and religious items.(Supposedly themed caches aren't necessarily adhered to anyway.)

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To be honest, I would be fascinated by a series like that. I have always been interested in learning more about the various worldviews that people have. But, from my experience with ethnographic research I can say that it's hard sometimes to be really aware of the realities of someone else's point of view. People are often uncomfortable when someone 'outside the group' tries to explain the group.

 

True, you may actually be able to see things more clearly than a member of the group because you are an outsider. On the other hand, you have to rely on information that you haven't gotten from first-hand experience. Is it accuarate? Is it fair? Who knows? Even the people IN the group don't always agree about things as simple as facts and dates, much less the larger questions of why and what it means.

 

Are we overly PC sometimes? Well, yes, we do get carried away with trying not to offend. I'd shy away from trying to explain someone else's religion, and make the series focus more on the history of the actual buildings, or on the histories of the people who formed the churches, etc. You can always provide additional links to interesting webpages and books that tell the rest of the story.

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Most people like christmas. I just wrote a letter to the reviewer asking if a christmas theme cache would be acceptable. It would contain some christmas ornaments, winter decorations and religious items.(Supposedly themed caches aren't necessarily adhered to anyway.)

 

Since it would only require the belief in Kris Kringle, I think you'll be okay. :)

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I don't see anything wrong with an informational cache series. In my area, we have a series called The Word. The cache description is just basic cache information. But if you need a hint, you have to look up Bible verses. The series seems well received. I haven't heard anything negative said about it.

 

I'm sure you wouldn't, but imagine if someone did a series where you had to look up things in the Koran or Mein Kampf or, heaven forbid, a book written by Michael Moore? Chances are people would complain. Ironically, it would be those who seem to love to make fun of how "PC" the liberals claim to be.

 

I personally wouldn't have a problem with that. They can be used as a resource just like the Bible. It's an individual choice to continue on with the cache. Whether or not you're right-wing or left-wing, I don't believe that it's right to pressure others to conform to your views, whether it be through active conversion or not allowing others to act on their views.

 

Live and let live.

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Hmm, I have two caches planned and they are both on the grounds of a church, but there is something there worth seeing at both of them. One is my religion and one is not, but I am not having people visit the cache for the religions sake, but for what they will see. Are these not going to get approved?

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Hmm, I have two caches planned and they are both on the grounds of a church, but there is something there worth seeing at both of them. One is my religion and one is not, but I am not having people visit the cache for the religions sake, but for what they will see. Are these not going to get approved?

I've been to several caches at or near churches. Most of them suggested that I look at the architecture of the building, one or two talked about the history behind why the church was built or the people who built it. Some of them didn't even mention the church at all, except to say that permission was given for the hide and that we should avoid going there during services and weddings so as not to disturb the members.

 

As long as your caches doesn't "promote" that religion, you should be OK.

 

So no saying "You MUST start going to this church because its the only one that XYZ", OK? :)

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I've been to several caches at or near churches. Most of them suggested that I look at the architecture of the building, one or two talked about the history behind why the church was built or the people who built it. Some of them didn't even mention the church at all, except to say that permission was given for the hide and that we should avoid going there during services and weddings so as not to disturb the members.

 

As long as your caches doesn't "promote" that religion, you should be OK.

 

So no saying "You MUST start going to this church because its the only one that XYZ", OK? :lol:

 

Thanks for the info. I also checked with our local reviewer and he was good with what I am doing. Working on the container right now and hoping to put it out this afternoon.

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Hmm, I have two caches planned and they are both on the grounds of a church, but there is something there worth seeing at both of them. One is my religion and one is not, but I am not having people visit the cache for the religions sake, but for what they will see. Are these not going to get approved?

 

The first thing I would put in that cache would be a copy of the Establishment Clause.

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Hmm, I have two caches planned and they are both on the grounds of a church, but there is something there worth seeing at both of them. One is my religion and one is not, but I am not having people visit the cache for the religions sake, but for what they will see. Are these not going to get approved?

The first thing I would put in that cache would be a copy of the Establishment Clause.

Why? Is HooTunes a member of Congress?

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Woo-woo! Aunty Wee!

 

It is because of the Establishment Clause that this is even open for debate.

 

The state (in this case the U.S. Congress) may not make laws establishing and promoting a religion but us free peoples can do so all we want. ... .. Even us atheists.

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I've noticed that with a lot of other things -- don't want to offend somebody! I think I'm going to just lock myself up in my house to prevent myself from hurting somebody's feelings.

 

I think it's very insensitive — and downright offensive — for you to make such light of people who are too easily offended.  How dare you?

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Hmm, I have two caches planned and they are both on the grounds of a church, but there is something there worth seeing at both of them. One is my religion and one is not, but I am not having people visit the cache for the religions sake, but for what they will see. Are these not going to get approved?

The first thing I would put in that cache would be a copy of the Establishment Clause.

Why? Is HooTunes a member of Congress?

 

For those who don't get it ...

 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

 

The government may not force a religion upon us. We are free in our private dealings (including geocaching) to share and promote our religious views. By the same stroke of a pen, geocaching.com is free to exercise its right to promote or not promote any religion in its guidelines.

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