Could Geocachers Offer A Service?

[alistair_uk]

The tread here was locked while I was typing and although I agree with the view that there was not any interest I do not agree that the topic had not concluded. As a result I will post my original response here.....

 

Credit for the community oriented thinking but I have to say that I agree with Golem's point. We are skilled at finding a plastic box when we know there will be one but in this context we are no different from any one else in society will probably hinder more than help. This is not to say that we should not offer our services just as any one else would, but as individuals and not as the Geocaching community.

 

For reference I guess I am a northerner and I am not interested in only an event, an icon and beer. Fare point with the beer but I could take offence at the rest. Joking apart you may want to clarify that your comment was a joke or consider retracting it if it was not as I for one feel a little offended.

[+Malpas Wanderer]

The tread here was locked while I was typing and although I agree with the view that there was not any interest I do not agree that the topic had not concluded. As a result I will post my original response here.....

 

Credit for the community oriented thinking but I have to say that I agree with Golem's point. We are skilled at finding a plastic box when we know there will be one but in this context we are no different from any one else in society will probably hinder more than help. This is not to say that we should not offer our services just as any one else would, but as individuals and not as the Geocaching community.

 

For reference I guess I am a northerner and I am not interested in only an event, an icon and beer. Fare point with the beer but I could take offence at the rest. Joking apart you may want to clarify that your comment was a joke or consider retracting it if it was not as I for one feel a little offended.

 

No offence was intended more a means to incite replies.

 

Perhaps I cited CITO as a wrong example as it is an event and group based.

 

Considered extra eyes going about their normal activities could be useful, never considered it to be full search conditions which would incur tresspass without the full authorities organisation.

 

Regret unable to reply further today as leaving for work now.

 

Regards and appologies to anyone offended.

 

Colin

[+The Golem]

Sadly Malpas Wanderer is right - I'm only interested in a beer, an icon and an event - if I found an injured granny in the woods I would step over her - unless she was close to ground zero - then I'd roll her over just to make sure she wasn't lying on the cache.

[alistair_uk]

Thank you for clearing that up MW.

 

...and thank you for clearing that up Golem.

[+Johnmelad]

if I found an injured granny in the woods I would step over her - unless she was close to ground zero - then I'd roll her over just to make sure she wasn't lying on the cache.

 

Me thinks you are fibbing!

[Lactodorum]

If I thought for one second he was serious I'd zap the posting straight away !!

 

However, I note the use of a smiley and am happy to let things continue.

[+Haggis Hunter]

Sadly Malpas Wanderer is right - I'm only interested in a beer, an icon and an event - if I found an injured granny in the woods I would step over her - unless she was close to ground zero - then I'd roll her over just to make sure she wasn't lying on the cache.

 

You may jest, but that happened to a pensioner in Livingston the other day. As this report says his cries for help were ignored by some people. He was lucky a group of kids saved his life.

[+macroderma]

Anyone interested could join their local ALSAR group

 

ALSAR

 

There are other groups for the higher areas, plus of course mountain rescue teams

 

I've been involved on the periphery of this, and there is a lot more to it than meets the eye

 

I am sure they would be pleased to get country-wise geocachers

[+Geotrotters]

You may jest, but that happened to a pensioner in Livingston the other day. As this report says his cries for help were ignored by some people. He was lucky a group of kids saved his life.

 

It just goes to show that not alll todays youth are mindless yobs.

[+CrazyL200]

Anyone interested could join their local ALSAR group

 

ALSAR

 

There are other groups for the higher areas, plus of course mountain rescue teams

 

I've been involved on the periphery of this, and there is a lot more to it than meets the eye

 

I am sure they would be pleased to get country-wise geocachers

 

There is also :

 

4x4response

 

and

 

Raynet

 

Both of which work in integrated ways with local emergency services and planning departments up and down the country.

 

The ALSAR link above returns the following message

No Database Selected

[+Johnmelad]

ALSAR I think?

[+Malpas Wanderer]

Many thanks to all that contributed to my original thread and to this thread opened by Alistair and the many that merely viewed. Appologies to anyone upset by my views or lack of use of emoticons.

 

Just to clarify my thinking on missing persons.

 

Many missing persons are depressive or dependent on medication.

Often a search is only instigated several days into the event.

Often the search area is targeted on the last known sighting.

Often this last sighting is distant from the final recovery.

Greatest distress is to friends, relatives and discoverer of a corpse.

 

Where could geocaching fit in?

 

By natural or increased activity of caching in the area increase the chance of early sightings using normal approaches (Rights of Way) or perhaps approach by a different route (Rights of Way) during this period.

Increased sightings reduce the search area and possibly even the need for a search altogether.

Communication, by using internet technology, photos could easily be conveyed as required a great improvement over radio alerting etc. the speed of deployment is proven by the view count to these threads.

A sense of achievement of community spirit.

Increased safety to geocachers by knowing the characters they might encounter in the countryside.

 

The first downside is perhaps a revelation of the covertness of our activities.

The next whether such a scheme would be administrable and thought worthwhile and bought into by the authorities.

Also, no Icon event or party.

 

Personally it would probably be difficult for me to contribute to a fixed time search but something such as above whilst enjoying my hobby I could likely fit in.

 

I raised the issue just to evaluate others views and perhaps closed the thread a little early but considered by the early replies it looked likely not of interest, I remain content that I raised the topic and am happy to go with any consensus of opinions.

 

Regrettably once again I am shortly to leave for work so will not see responses to this post for some hours. Sorry for the length of this post.

 

Colin

[+Master Mariner]

A few years ago I took a day off work so during my early morning dog walk I took a slightly different route. At one point, on part of the Woolwich Arsenal testing area, my dogs became excited so I expected the usual fox or rabbit to be there. As I got closer, I noticed a base ball cap on the ground. Looking to the side I saw an old lady sat on the ground with her legs over wheel ruts. I asked her if she was OK and in a strong voice she said she was. I asked again and got the same reply. So I left her as I did not want to cause her distress by approaching closer.

 

When I got home, I phoned the local old people's home and they advised that no one was missing. I then phoned the Police and was asked to describe her. Within minutes a police car arrived complete with sirens. I took the officers off to find the lady and was told that, from my description, she had been missing since the previous afternoon. When we got to the lady, the Police picked her up and carried her for 15 minutes to a place where an ambulance could take her.

 

The lady's husband passed on a message of thanks but no one knew what she was doing in that area.

 

When the Police arrived back at their car I asked about her health and was advised that she was OK. I was also told that, if no one claimed her within three months, she was mine!!

 

Seriously though, whenever anyone is out and about, especially in remote areas they should keep their eyes open - you never know what you will find. How many times have you read in the paper that "man out walking dog finds body" or similar. That happened a week later and is a completely different story and set of circumsatnces.

[+*mouse*]

As someone who works for the emergency services I think it's fair to say that the more people on hand to search for missing persons the better.

 

However, I wanted to stress just how important it is to ensure that all searches are organised. Very often well meaning persons will wander off alone to search an area, and this doesn't always help and can even hinder a search. For example, dogs will find it very difficult to follow a trail that people have subsequently wandered across. Also if the very worst has happened and someone has died in suspicious circumstances, the police will want as little contamination to the area as possible, and trained searchers should be aware how to minimise their impact on a scene like this.

 

There are some fantastic organisations out there that do a great job at searching for missing persons, so if you do want to help I would suggest joining one of these teams. That way you will get the very best training and advice, and the missing person gets the very best response.

 

If you can't commit to joining a team than I guess the best solution would be to volunteer yourselves as and when something happens - I'm sure on most occasions the professionals would be extremely glad of the help.

[+Nellies Knackers]

Sadly Malpas Wanderer is right - I'm only interested in a beer, an icon and an event - if I found an injured granny in the woods I would step over her - unless she was close to ground zero - then I'd roll her over just to make sure she wasn't lying on the cache.

I find this idea absolutely horrible! what if the injured granny was part of a multi or puzzle cache? rolling her over could totally ruin the clues for the next cacher.

Interesting idea though, a hollowed out injured person would make a very clever cache container, would this fit the guidelines?

[+mongoose39uk]

Sadly Malpas Wanderer is right - I'm only interested in a beer, an icon and an event - if I found an injured granny in the woods I would step over her - unless she was close to ground zero - then I'd roll her over just to make sure she wasn't lying on the cache.

I find this idea absolutely horrible! what if the injured granny was part of a multi or puzzle cache? rolling her over could totally ruin the clues for the next cacher.

Interesting idea though, a hollowed out injured person would make a very clever cache container, would this fit the guidelines?

 

Do I take it your volunteering?

[alistair_uk]

Thinking about it, what could the Geocaching community offer various community groups with the skills we have. Perhaps we are in a position to supply some training to community groups for example.

[+Teuchters]

 

Many missing persons are depressive or dependent on medication.

Often a search is only instigated several days into the event.

Often the search area is targeted on the last known sighting.

Often this last sighting is distant from the final recovery.

Greatest distress is to friends, relatives and discoverer of a corpse.

 

 

I don't know where to go on this thread, and in particular the comments made (in all good faith) by Colin.

I have been a member of a rescue team for 20 years and in my own experience, I have found that 1, 2 and 3 above are not so. That is not to say that these circumstances do not occur on occasions, but IMHO these are generalisations that may fit some rescues for missing persons in some areas but not all. It is unlikely that these circumstances are to be found most frequently in the area that I have been involved in - namely mountain rescue. Fortunately, most rescues I have had experience of have happy endings too.

 

I also firmly believe, once again in the mountain environment, that geocachers may not be any more, or less, suitable to join in a search than any other member of the community. Again this may not be be true in lowland searches.

As members of the public, I believe that any fit and experienced person (not just cachers) could volunteer themselves as a searcher, provided that care is taken at all times not to destroy evidence and that they are organised by the proper authorities to do so. In this respect I echo the comments of *mouse*

 

I hope these comments are viewed in a constructive way - I do not mean to criticise unduly.

[+Teasel]

That is not to say that these circumstances do not occur on occasions, but IMHO these are generalisations that may fit some rescues for missing persons in some areas but not all.

I guess it depends heavily on the area. In the Peak District, for example, the above generalisations largely hold true. A good proportion of our callouts are either known location "snatches", or searches for "vulnerable persons". Searches for overdue parties of walkers do occur, but surprisingly rarely compared with teams in more remote areas.

 

One problem often encountered is that of motivating a section doing a line search through dense woodland when everyone "knows" full well that the misper is either ( a ) 200 miles away drowning their sorrows with an old school friend or ( b ) going to be found dead by the other section who are: searching a footpath; less than 500m from the misper's car; with good views facing downwind; within sight of water; where they used to go as a kid!

 

Without the same level of commitment and infrastructure enjoyed by Mountain Rescue teams, geocachers would be limited use for snatches or searches for overdue walkers. Their main use would presumably be searching wide areas for missing "vulnerables". Unfortunately these sorts of searches often do not have happy endings, so having a working knowledge of evidence preservation becomes important. As the saying goes... not just any idiot can do a search - you need a trained idiot!

Edited July 10, 2006 by Teasel

[+*mouse*]

One problem often encountered is that of motivating a section doing a line search through dense woodland when everyone "knows" full well that the misper is either ( a ) 200 miles away drowning their sorrows with an old school friend or ( b ) going to be found dead by the other section who are: searching a footpath; less than 500m from the misper's car; with good views facing downwind; within sight of water; where they used to go as a kid!

 

I can sympathise with that ! But you forgot to mention that it will inevitably be raining, dark and the same night all your mates are down the pub without you...... the joys of being a trained idiot!