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How Do You Feel About Cache Availability By Appointment?


Doc Geo

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My main gripe wouldn't be from the person doing the cache but from your perspective. Unless your a severe night owl, people calling at one or two in the morning would wear on me really quick. People will do it too. I have been in a situation somewhat similar to this and received many phone calls in the middle of the night. But if that doesn't bother you go for it. My philosophy if you don't like a cache whether it is type, difficulty, location or whatever than don't do it. There are plenty of others that you can do instead.

 

True, but I wouldn't put my phone number anyway. A geocacher can always request to do the cache by sending me a message using my email link on my geocaching.com profile. Or by Yahoo IM. What it would come down to is: If it's too much trouble, then move on to the next cache otherwise, wait for my reply agreeing to the date (time would always be 30 minutes after sunset. "Oh, now we have to research when sunset is?" Yes, just like a puzzle cache requires some research.... But of course some GPSr's will tell you when sunset is....

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Doc, I think it's a great idea. Obviously you can't please everybody. You should never tailor your cache to appease those folks who are too lazy to read the cache page.

 

Hmmm, those us of who enjoy the added challenge of finding caches using just the coordinates and without the handholding and hints that are on many cache pages are now lazy?

 

Look, I am also one who just downloads my query results into my GPS and heads out. I also download the .gpx file in to Cachemate in my PDA so I have the pages, hints and previous logs with me if I get there and run into a problem finding it. I think my initial problem was trying to publish it as Traditional Cache when I should have made it a Mystery/Unknow cache so that people would have filtered it out of those they just want to find my "...using just the coordinates..." But I see no difference in getting to a river only to find that the cache is out on an island and having to go home or on to the next cache only to have to return again and someone showing up to my night cache only to find out they have to return later. An NO! I am not requiring that I be with them on their hunt! Just offering to. Sheesh! People are making a lot of statements that just don't apply to this circumstance. But that could be because I didn't state things clearly enough on the cache page. When I resubmit this cache, I will try to put as much information as possible in the description. I really appreciate everyone's comments - pro and con.

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I don't like the idea of an appointment. What if our schedules are incompatible? Then you're saying I can't hunt the cache. What if I manage to make an appointment and on the chosen date you come down with the flu and you can't leave your bed? Once again, I'm denied access. It all sounds like an unnecessary hassle.

 

What about caches that are placed on islands in the middle of lakes and rivers? If I don't have a boat, should I be made to rent or buy one so I can hunt the cache? That's not fair. That's another cache that I can't claim. But you know what? It's only one cache and there are so many more out there for me to grab! :ph34r:

 

Completely different point. Your cache is on dry land and all I need are my feet and a flashlight. I'm already equipped.

 

The appointment raises a host of problems. What if you choose to deny me an appointment just because we disagree in this thread? What if the only time I'm free for night caches is on Tuesdays at 2:30 AM and you don't want to be out that late because of work/school the next day? What if I'm there at the appointed time and you fail to show? Repeatedly? What if Nudecacher wants to hunt the cache in the buff and you don't feel like looking at his pale backside illuminated by your headlamp?

 

What if, what if, what if! I have heard tons of what ifs regarding this. How about just asking me if you seriously want to do the cache instead of assuming or assigning all sorts of character traits to me that no one has a clue as to whether I'm actually a certain way or not....? I'm pretty much a laid back kind of guy and am very easy to work with. I'm trying to do something for the geocaching community and instead of getting "Hey, thanks but I think I'll pass." I get all of these fantasy what ifs that have no basis in reality... I do appreciate "constructive" criticism though... and thank all of you who have provided this.....

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What if, what if, what if! I have heard tons of what ifs regarding this. How about just asking me if you seriously want to do the cache instead of assuming or assigning all sorts of character traits to me that no one has a clue as to whether I'm actually a certain way or not....? I'm pretty much a laid back kind of guy and am very easy to work with. I'm trying to do something for the geocaching community and instead of getting "Hey, thanks but I think I'll pass." I get all of these fantasy what ifs that have no basis in reality... I do appreciate "constructive" criticism though... and thank all of you who have provided this.....

The 'What ifs' were for your benefit.

 

If you want just our opinions, with no explanation, here's mine:

 

This is a bad idea and should not be listed.

Edited by sbell111
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How about hiding/listing a cache on the edge of your property for everyone/anytime. Inside that cache post a listing and instructions for a bonus cache that is avail by appointment. As the cache owner, you can allow a 2nd find on the 1st cache for those who find the bonus. The cachers that only download waypoints without description can "score a find"; and if they so choose, can make an appoitment for the bonus. As a bonus cache, it does not have to be listed via Geocaching.com and would not be subject to review rules (it is on your property, you can do as you want). Those who feel comfortable making an appoint, can; those who do not, still found your cache and can move on. If you wanted to, you could list on you cache page that there is bonus cache by appointment only, and list the particulars. However the 1st cache with the instruction would be in full compliance with Groundspeak rules.

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You asked "How Do You Feel About Cache Availability By Appointment?" You shouldn't get upset because we tell you.

 

I'm not getting upset with people telling me how they feel about a cache by appointment scenario. But they put all of these made up "what if" scenarios to justify their opinion and about 90% of these scenarios would not apply to this cache. If they have a question about the cache, like would I have to accompany them on it, then ask me instead of assuming that I would be there. The ONLY reason for making by appointment is so that I will know that the flashlights and voices I hear out side or the vehicle I find on my land when coming home from a late night of geocaching myself is because of someone looking for the cache and not someone targeting my house for a burglary since I live way out in the country. That's the only reason. You women who are so paranoid about being "lured" out to a night cache at a specific day and time could bring a friend or two or three! (I am most definitely not saying that you aren't right to want to be safe. Women get attacked in broad daylight in public places.) I can't help but be a little bit offended though. I'm only 5'2", 130 lbs... not much of a force to be reckoned with. I'm a retired Air Force Master Sergeant so I'm a disciplined man. I've been married for 24 years (which proves I know who really is the boss in my household :ph34r: ). During my entire 20 year AF career, I held a Top Secret security clearance, so lots of background checks and trust there. I have worked with lots of youth groups which have run background and criminal checks on me.... (sigh....)

 

Everyone is making up reasons not to do this instead of just saying "I'd rather not have to make an appointment to find a cache because I just like to run from cache to cache as fast as I can." or "I don't do night caches." You all know just as much as I do, that there are thousands and thousands of caches out there with new ones being created every day (and yes, every night). So, I make one that needs an appointment. Big deal.... Don't like it? Just move on to the next one. But is that a reason to keep someone from looking for it that doesn't mind having to make an appointment?

 

Doc Geo

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How about hiding/listing a cache on the edge of your property for everyone/anytime. Inside that cache post a listing and instructions for a bonus cache that is avail by appointment. As the cache owner, you can allow a 2nd find on the 1st cache for those who find the bonus. The cachers that only download waypoints without description can "score a find"; and if they so choose, can make an appoitment for the bonus. As a bonus cache, it does not have to be listed via Geocaching.com and would not be subject to review rules (it is on your property, you can do as you want). Those who feel comfortable making an appoint, can; those who do not, still found your cache and can move on. If you wanted to, you could list on you cache page that there is bonus cache by appointment only, and list the particulars. However the 1st cache with the instruction would be in full compliance with Groundspeak rules.

 

Now that is what I'm talking about! Great constructive remark. Of course, you didn't say whether you are pro or con for the idea, but you at least offered a possible solution. Thanks Keith! I'm going to copy all of the great suggestions on how I can make this happen and try something new...

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Doc, I think it's a great idea. Obviously you can't please everybody. You should never tailor your cache to appease those folks who are too lazy to read the cache page.

 

Hmmm, those us of who enjoy the added challenge of finding caches using just the coordinates and without the handholding and hints that are on many cache pages are now lazy?

 

Look, I am also one who just downloads my query results into my GPS and heads out. I also download the .gpx file in to Cachemate in my PDA so I have the pages, hints and previous logs with me if I get there and run into a problem finding it. I think my initial problem was trying to publish it as Traditional Cache when I should have made it a Mystery/Unknow cache so that people would have filtered it out of those they just want to find my "...using just the coordinates..." But I see no difference in getting to a river only to find that the cache is out on an island and having to go home or on to the next cache only to have to return again and someone showing up to my night cache only to find out they have to return later.

 

Are you going to have signs all around your property telling people they have to return later? If they have the waypoint and no cache page then how else will they know that?

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You asked "How Do You Feel About Cache Availability By Appointment?" You shouldn't get upset because we tell you.

You women who are so paranoid about being "lured" out to a night cache at a specific day and time could bring a friend or two or three! (I am most definitely not saying that you aren't right to want to be safe. Women get attacked in broad daylight in public places.) I can't help but be a little bit offended though.

Doc Geo

 

I'm far from a paranoid woman. I am a woman who uses common sense. You asked, I told you, now you are offended. If you can't take people's opinions and the reasons they hold them, don't ask. I don't care how many security clearances you had. Do you know how many *I* had? Why are you holding me to an appointment time? Because you are paranoid about having people with flashlights out in your woods...

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Here is another thought/what it for you to gnaw on, not trying to be a smartie just giving another point of view. Lets say the listing is published the way you want, I schedule my appointment and you give the big OK for me to begin my adventure. While we are out on our adventure (or sitting at home knowing someone is on your property) my "evil" partner knows your home/vehicle/whatever are now vulnerable because you are "occupied" and we decide to take advantage of your kindness. I'd use the bathroom/phone excuse - you know the lures your momma told you about. Will it ever happen - not likely, could it happen - you bet.

 

If you are wary of folks being in/on/around your property at any time I honestly do not think placing a cache for everyone to enjoy (including you) is in your best interest.

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How about hiding/listing a cache on the edge of your property for everyone/anytime. Inside that cache post a listing and instructions for a bonus cache that is avail by appointment. As the cache owner, you can allow a 2nd find on the 1st cache for those who find the bonus. The cachers that only download waypoints without description can "score a find"; and if they so choose, can make an appoitment for the bonus. As a bonus cache, it does not have to be listed via Geocaching.com and would not be subject to review rules (it is on your property, you can do as you want). Those who feel comfortable making an appoint, can; those who do not, still found your cache and can move on. If you wanted to, you could list on you cache page that there is bonus cache by appointment only, and list the particulars. However the 1st cache with the instruction would be in full compliance with Groundspeak rules.

 

I don't like this solution, personally. I'm pretty much in the one cache = one find category. All "bonus" caches I know of are still actual caches listed on gc.

 

The problem I see with an appointment cache, mainly, is that it really is only accessable to local cachers. If it were in my city I would probably do it with people I know around here. I wouldn't go out of my way to put in on a vacation cache list.

 

Frankly, if you want a cache on your property, I say just place it and make it available anytime. There are a few people around here who do "night caches" in the daytime. Makes it a different challenge (probably even harder), but it's what they prefer.

 

If you don't want people on your property when they want to hunt, then it's not a good place for a cache.

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How about hiding/listing a cache on the edge of your property for everyone/anytime. Inside that cache post a listing and instructions for a bonus cache that is avail by appointment. As the cache owner, you can allow a 2nd find on the 1st cache for those who find the bonus. The cachers that only download waypoints without description can "score a find"; and if they so choose, can make an appoitment for the bonus. As a bonus cache, it does not have to be listed via Geocaching.com and would not be subject to review rules (it is on your property, you can do as you want). Those who feel comfortable making an appoint, can; those who do not, still found your cache and can move on. If you wanted to, you could list on you cache page that there is bonus cache by appointment only, and list the particulars. However the 1st cache with the instruction would be in full compliance with Groundspeak rules.

 

Now that is what I'm talking about! Great constructive remark. Of course, you didn't say whether you are pro or con for the idea, but you at least offered a possible solution. Thanks Keith! I'm going to copy all of the great suggestions on how I can make this happen and try something new...

 

Sorry, but I'm afraid I am not in favor of listing caches that the only option is by appointment only.

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Doc, I think it's a great idea. Obviously you can't please everybody. You should never tailor your cache to appease those folks who are too lazy to read the cache page.

 

Hmmm, those us of who enjoy the added challenge of finding caches using just the coordinates and without the handholding and hints that are on many cache pages are now lazy?

 

Look, I am also one who just downloads my query results into my GPS and heads out. I also download the .gpx file in to Cachemate in my PDA so I have the pages, hints and previous logs with me if I get there and run into a problem finding it. I think my initial problem was trying to publish it as Traditional Cache when I should have made it a Mystery/Unknow cache so that people would have filtered it out of those they just want to find my "...using just the coordinates..." But I see no difference in getting to a river only to find that the cache is out on an island and having to go home or on to the next cache only to have to return again and someone showing up to my night cache only to find out they have to return later.

 

Are you going to have signs all around your property telling people they have to return later? If they have the waypoint and no cache page then how else will they know that?

 

This is not a very good point....it is irresponisble to hunt caches with out first reading the cache page. It does not make anyone lazy it makes them an irresponsible cacher that is asking for trouble. You should always be familiar with the cache that you are hunting. IMO.

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I'm trying to figure out the need for an appointment anyway? I'm assuming you have plenty of land and the night cache doesn't take the cachers to your front door step. Why not just remove that stipulation? What does it serve?

 

I think a lot of people are thinking it's creepy to have someone waiting on them as they go to look for the cache.

 

BTW- I love night caches. I'd love to do this one, if I didn't have to make an appointment.

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Doc, I think it's a great idea. Obviously you can't please everybody. You should never tailor your cache to appease those folks who are too lazy to read the cache page.

Hmmm, those us of who enjoy the added challenge of finding caches using just the coordinates and without the handholding and hints that are on many cache pages are now lazy?

Are you going to have signs all around your property telling people they have to return later? If they have the waypoint and no cache page then how else will they know that?

This is not a very good point....it is irresponisble to hunt caches with out first reading the cache page. It does not make anyone lazy it makes them an irresponsible cacher that is asking for trouble. You should always be familiar with the cache that you are hunting. IMO.

Look, I am also one who just downloads my query results into my GPS and heads out. I also download the .gpx file in to Cachemate in my PDA so I have the pages, hints and previous logs with me if I get there and run into a problem finding it. I think my initial problem was trying to publish it as Traditional Cache when I should have made it a Mystery/Unknow cache so that people would have filtered it out of those they just want to find my "...using just the coordinates..." But I see no difference in getting to a river only to find that the cache is out on an island and having to go home or on to the next cache only to have to return again and someone showing up to my night cache only to find out they have to return later.

Agreed. I find it totally bizarre that folks nowadays hunt caches without having first read the cache listing page; some even brag about this trait as though it were desirable or "cool". This practice has nearly gotten several cache hunters, either when seeking extreme terrain caches or seeking caches located near private property. To me, the practice is arrogant and bizarre.

[DICTATOR MODE ON] If the GC listing service were my site, I would find a way to ensure that folks must read the listing prior to seeking. [DICTATOR MODE OFF]

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Hmmm, those us of who enjoy the added challenge of finding caches using just the coordinates and without the handholding and hints that are on many cache pages are now lazy?

Either lazy or irresponsible. You pick. The information is there for a reason. If you choose not to read it, don't go crying about it later.

 

Doc, what if someone is on their cell phone, making an appointment, then gets abducted by space aliens, and sucked into a space/time continuum, emerging at the actual cache location at the appointed time instead of where you were going to meet them. Then the pesky aliens made crop circles in your woods that point out the location of the cache. Then the black helicopters arrive and snatch the cacher from your property, taking them to the secret government base in *********** (city name deleted by Signal). How would the cacher log the find?[:)]

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Hmmm, those us of who enjoy the added challenge of finding caches using just the coordinates and without the handholding and hints that are on many cache pages are now lazy?

Either lazy or irresponsible. You pick. The information is there for a reason. If you choose not to read it, don't go crying about it later.

Well, searching by coordinates only IS arrogant, but that's not a crime, especially in the forums. :wub:

 

Many people in my area do this, including me, but I always carry descriptions and hints as back up. In urban areas, I'm more likely to resort to descriptions and hints, while in parks and open preserves, there's often no need, since it's clear I'm in a public area. I enjoy the simplicity and elegance of a hide that fit the location without extra verbage. :unsure:

 

Following up on the OP, night caches should be classified as mystery/puzzle since the posted coordinates and the final cache location are different, which echoes what people have said earlier. That'll force people (with common sense) to read the description before the hunt. Hopefully, the first stage and the posted coordinates are in a public area just outside your property.

 

Appointments should be optional and should NOT be the primary focus of the listing.

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You asked "How Do You Feel About Cache Availability By Appointment?" You shouldn't get upset because we tell you.

You women who are so paranoid about being "lured" out to a night cache at a specific day and time could bring a friend or two or three! (I am most definitely not saying that you aren't right to want to be safe. Women get attacked in broad daylight in public places.) I can't help but be a little bit offended though.

Doc Geo

 

I'm far from a paranoid woman. I am a woman who uses common sense. You asked, I told you, now you are offended. If you can't take people's opinions and the reasons they hold them, don't ask. I don't care how many security clearances you had. Do you know how many *I* had? Why are you holding me to an appointment time? Because you are paranoid about having people with flashlights out in your woods...

 

Ummmm.... good point... I'm just going to make it a Mystery type cache and that way, people won't get them in their queries of caches to just run and grab. They will have to read the cache description page to find out the requirements for getting the cache.

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"I'd rather not have to make an appointment to find a cache because I just like to run from cache to cache as fast as I can."

 

Yep. When I visit an area on a business trip, I don't usually read the cache pages until after work when I discover I have free time. Don't forget to make your email address very easy to find on the page so those of us out in the field can drop you a quick email.

 

But having to email as a requirement sucks. We haven't bothered with the TB hotel in Idaho that requires it mainly because we usually remember the requirement about 2 hours before we get to town.

 

Have you thought about making it member's only as well? That will cut down on the number of searchers too!

 

My personal advice- put it on a different listing service so you won't get flak from folks here about your rules for this cache. Heck. You could add more. :unsure::wub:

-J

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My big problem with this idea is that you know exactly when the cacher is coming. I'm not in any way trying to discredit your character, its just nobody really knows you and whos to say you won't go out and murder them in your backyard (again not saying you would, its just other people don't know you and have no way of making sure you wouldn't do that).

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I don't like the idea of an appointment. What if our schedules are incompatible? Then you're saying I can't hunt the cache. What if I manage to make an appointment and on the chosen date you come down with the flu and you can't leave your bed? Once again, I'm denied access. It all sounds like an unnecessary hassle.

 

What about caches that are placed on islands in the middle of lakes and rivers? If I don't have a boat, should I be made to rent or buy one so I can hunt the cache? That's not fair. That's another cache that I can't claim. But you know what? It's only one cache and there are so many more out there for me to grab! :unsure:

 

BUT, I operate like briansnat....waypoints loaded into GPS, and likely haven't read the cache page. ....If I get to the cache site and see 'PRIVATE PROPERTY NO TRESSPASSING' I'll turn around, go home, and ignore the cache, and maybe even post a SBA note.

 

If you don't read the cache page and go off half cocked and then follow up with an SBA log, that's entirly your own fault.

 

A cache by appointment is fine as long as every cacher has a fair shot an that appointment. Odds are I'd never get around to doing the cache, and the odds are the cache owner will have to deal with folks like you (and you aren't alone) who don't bother reading the cache page and who will show up anyway.

 

Par for the course. If they are willing to deal with it then great. List the cache.

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I think it is a fine idea. Every one afriad of being taken out should realize that a psyco could stalk any night cache and kill people.

 

Also, if your only objection is to the cache is because you don't read cache pages, thats your own problem. I really don't think that caches should have to be accessable without a discription. If you can find a cache without the discription, great. If not, then thats what you get for being all cool.

 

Finally, if they won't approve your cache, try another place. THere are places that try to say yes. Terracaching.com for example. They have over 300 caches in texas

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I think it is a fine idea. Every one afriad of being taken out should realize that a psyco could stalk any night cache and kill people. ...

Even though your response was made for the sole reason to pimp TC.com, I'll respond to it because I'm easily baited.

 

The difference between a psycho staking out a random night cache and an appointment-only cache is that the psycho may be waiting in the woods for weeks for the proper victim to come along, while the owner of the appointment-only cache knows not only when a specific person will arrive, but can schedule it so any other cachers are unlikely to show up and intervene.

 

If anything, your point is a strong argument against this type of cache.

Edited by sbell111
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You asked "How Do You Feel About Cache Availability By Appointment?" You shouldn't get upset because we tell you.

You women who are so paranoid about being "lured" out to a night cache at a specific day and time could bring a friend or two or three! (I am most definitely not saying that you aren't right to want to be safe. Women get attacked in broad daylight in public places.)

 

That is a real jackass thing to say. You know what? Things like that happen. Whether or not you plan on doing it, I don't know. Do not belittle "us women" for being "so paranoid". Do you really think I'm going to e-mail some strange man and say "Hey, even though I don't know you, I'll be at your house in the middle of the night! Meet me there, 'doc'" Ha. No. Call it paranoia if you want. I call it covering my own tail.

 

You asked if it was a good idea or not. People gave you reasons for it. Don't be such a jerk just because you don't like the response.

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I haven't read the whole thread but I think the reviewer had it right.

 

I don't want to make appointments to find caches.

 

This whole thread seems familiar...cache owner has an idea he thinks is great. Reviewer doesn't agree. Owner posts here to enlist the support of community to get decision reversed. Community doesn't agree. Owner starts getting hostile when everyone doesn't applaud his great idea...

 

At least he's not requiring us to speak in rhyme when we make the appointment.

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While on a recent trip to Indy I was discouraged to find that a couple of caches near my hotel could only be logged on either (1) on your birthday or (2) a birthday of a friend because of their theme. Since I generally cache by waypoint only, subsequently I was nor permitted then by their cache rules to log my finds online because I didn't qualify for the birthday requirement portion.

 

I really don't think we should place requirements on when a cache could be found other than adhering to area open times, limiting cemetery night caching etc. We place caches in order for people to find them and complicating that with unecessary burdens limits the number of folks who can enjoy your hide.

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While on a recent trip to Indy I was discouraged to find that a couple of caches near my hotel could only be logged on either (1) on your birthday or (2) a birthday of a friend because of their theme. Since I generally cache by waypoint only, subsequently I was nor permitted then by their cache rules to log my finds online because I didn't qualify for the birthday requirement portion.

 

I really don't think we should place requirements on when a cache could be found other than adhering to area open times, limiting cemetery night caching etc. We place caches in order for people to find them and complicating that with unecessary burdens limits the number of folks who can enjoy your hide.

 

I'm sure that one of your 'friends' here in the forum had a birthday on that date...whatever it was. Just reach out and find a way to sign that log.

 

edit: wrong quote pulled.

Edited by KoosKoos
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I do not like the cache by appointment idea. I find caches as convenient to my travels and movements and do not wish to place it in my schedule at a fixed time.

 

I also do not like caches on private property (even the property of the hider) -- it makes me feel like I'm being watched. Like an animal in a zoo! Plus, I suspect there are liability issues.

 

I also dislike when cache placers allow people to find the cache prior to the lising getting published (your group of 20). Some call it BETA testing -- I call it favourtism. Imagine if you enjoyed FTF hunts, saw a listing appear and then saw that you were the 21st finder?

 

So, sorry, but I really do not find this cache interesting.

 

If the idea is that an appointment is required in order for the cache to be "ready" then it isn't a cache -- it's GPS performance art.

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