User Locking Of Threads

[+wizard1974uk]

Who here thinks that user locking of threads should be disabled and let the moderators decide whether a thread should be closed or not?

 

It is very easy for a member to start a controversial thread and when the opinions of subsequent posters appear to go against a thread starter's opinions they can suddenly lock the thread without having to answer their critics.

 

I say members who start a thread they know that they shouldn't have because of any turmoil that could be caused should face what ever comes instead of hiding behind the fact that they can lock their own topics. I am not pointing at anyone at all with this, so please don't act all paranoid.

[+rutson]

This is something that has concerned me for a while and has just be brought to the forefront of my mind.

 

I do not believe that allowing users to lock their own topics is conducive to open discussion.

 

Anyway, although it is possible to drive your car at more that 70mph on UK roads it is against the rules. The same applies to users locking threads in these circumstances:

 

You agree not to:

..;.

(g) Disrupt the normal flow of dialogue or otherwise act in a manner that negatively affects other users' ability to engage in real time exchanges.

From: the geocaching.com Terms of Use document refered to by this forums guidelines.

[+Moote]

I think I know of the tread which started this controversial post. I would say that locking threads actually infringes The European Convention on Human Rights, also as does the Moderators editing them.

 

Article 10

 

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

 

So locking threads is a bad Idea, and as the Americans agree to uphold this convention whilst operating on EU soil, Groundspeak have to comply

[+wizard1974uk]

I have my own internal criteria of when I think a thread should be locked and thought I'd share it:

 

1. Personal attacks

 

2. Threads that are no longer relevant, e.g. old event threads, mainly to stop confusion and cluttering up the place.

 

Thats basically it.

[alistair_uk]

Who here thinks that user locking of threads should be disabled and let the moderators decide whether a thread should be closed or not?

Me. Often I feel topics that are getting interesting are being locked because on person has lost interest.

[Red Squadron]

Let the moderators decide, NOT the users.

[+Sensei TSKC]

Let the Users still have the power. If they lock it, start a new thread. That one won't get locked will it?

[+Sensei TSKC]

Secondly, Moderators are here to moderate NOT decide whether a discussion has come to an end or gone off topic.

 

Their job is hard enough as it is.

[+Learned Gerbil]

I think I know of the tread which started this controversial post. I would say that locking threads actually infringes The European Convention on Human Rights, also as does the Moderators editing them.

 

 

Rubbish!

 

"ARTICLE 1

 

The High Contracting Parties shall secure to everyone within their jurisdiction the rights and freedoms defined in Section I of this Convention."

 

The convention only applies to contracting states. So the UK can breach someone's rights, but you, me and a moderator can't. How do you plan to enforce human rights breaches by the moderators for example? The Human Rights Act 1998 only applies to the acts of public authorities. A public authority is a body carrying out public functions, which by definition is somethign the state can do, but others can't. Arrest and lawful detention for example are public functions, moderating this forum clearly isn't.

 

What this means is that the state cannot act so as to limit expression beyond the limits set out in article 10, but it has no application to this forum.

[+Johnmelad]

Gerbil,

 

You beat me to that answer.

[+Simply Paul]

I think users have to have the power to lock, as 29 times out of 30 (more than 9 in 10, but less than 99 in 100!) they're locked for good, sensible reasons. When I've had one sealed while I was considering my reply, I've simply started a new thread. Not ideal, but better than going over old ground when an ages-old thread gets bumped. I think.

[+wizard1974uk]

Secondly, Moderators are here to moderate NOT decide whether a discussion has come to an end or gone off topic.

 

Their job is hard enough as it is.

 

Erm, that is part of a moderators job.

[+Sensei TSKC]

Secondly, Moderators are here to moderate NOT decide whether a discussion has come to an end or gone off topic.

 

Their job is hard enough as it is.

 

Erm, that is part of a moderators job.

I beg to differ but stand to be corrected. It is not a Moderators job to decide whether a Thread / Topic has come to an end. If it has, then it will 'drop off' the list and if needed be revived by a user. If it was locked by a Moderator how can a newbie ressurrect an old thread - ?

 

Gone off Topic - maybe, yes but most of the time these are self correcting issues by the contributors.

 

[+wizard1974uk]

Secondly, Moderators are here to moderate NOT decide whether a discussion has come to an end or gone off topic.

 

Their job is hard enough as it is.

 

Erm, that is part of a moderators job.

I beg to differ but stand to be corrected. It is not a Moderators job to decide whether a Thread / Topic has come to an end. If it has, then it will 'drop off' the list and if needed be revived by a user. If it was locked by a Moderator how can a newbie ressurrect an old thread - ?

 

Gone off Topic - maybe, yes but most of the time these are self correcting issues by the contributors.

 

 

I have run many forums over the years and deciding whether a topic has come to end or has gone off topic IS part of a moderators job, pick any bulletin board resource site and the admins who are members of those forums will tell you exactly the same thing. I'm not talking out of my backside here.

[Lactodorum]

Secondly, Moderators are here to moderate NOT decide whether a discussion has come to an end or gone off topic.

 

Their job is hard enough as it is.

 

Erm, that is part of a moderators job.

I beg to differ but stand to be corrected. It is not a Moderators job to decide whether a Thread / Topic has come to an end. If it has, then it will 'drop off' the list and if needed be revived by a user. If it was locked by a Moderator how can a newbie ressurrect an old thread - ?

 

Gone off Topic - maybe, yes but most of the time these are self correcting issues by the contributors.

 

 

I have run many forums over the years and deciding whether a topic has come to end or has gone off topic IS part of a moderators job, pick any bulletin board resource site and the admins who are members of those forums will tell you exactly the same thing. I'm not talking out of my backside here.

I agree that making those sort of decisions is all part of my prestigious and vastly well paid "job"

 

However I've tried over the years to exert a very light touch and I'm probably guilty of letting threads drift a little too far off topic from time to time. As for deciding when a thread's come to its end, I reckon once people are tired of it, it will just "wither and die" naturally.

 

I know some other forums mods tend to be more actively involved but that's their style, not mine. I will certainly "wield the big stick" if I think the guidelines on abuse/decency etc. are being flouted.

[+Pharisee]

As TPTB have seen fit to give me the ability to close any topic that I've started, I reserve the right to do so at a time of MY choosing. That may, or may not, upset other users of this forum. I'm sorry if you're one of those that gets upset about it but currently, I have that right and I'll use it if I feel the need to.

 

I have no idea if the forum Moderators have the ability to re-open a thread that a mere mortal has closed or would, even if they could. As has already been stated, if you want to carry on the 'discussion' feel free to start your own topic.

Edited June 26, 2006 by Pharisee

[+The Golem]

A few weeks ago I started a thread about those pesky congratulations threads, asking that people vote for or against. I added a smart-ar$ed comment at the end then closed it, I thought that folk would see the funny side but some people completely missed the point - sure enough another thread was started almost instantly in response to my attempt to have the last word...

 

If people feel strongly about a subject rest assured you'll know about it!

[Lactodorum]

I have no idea if the forum Moderators have the ability to re-open a thread that a mere mortal has closed or would, even if they could.

Yes I can and yes I have.

[+The Blorenges]

If the Thread's Original Poster (the TOP ) is seeking information, or the answer to a straight forward question, then I would suggest that their ability to close their own thread is a useful facility. A quick "click" to close the thread when they feel suitably enlightened

 

MrsB

(always seeking the light )

[+Torry]

Why would we want only the moderators to be able to close a thread? I was puzzled to see this discussion take some interesting turns as it seems that some WANT the moderators and only the moderators to have the power... and this from a crowd (geocachers in general) who tend to pride themselves on their independence.

 

I certainly hope that the reference to "Freedom of speech" issues was made in tongue in cheek. If not, wouldn't forcing gc.com to continue a thread on their privately-owned website be a violation of gc.com's freedom?

 

Ah well, I'll just scamper back across the pond. ... can I get a few beers to go before I leave?

[nobby.nobbs]

keep the ability , if someone closes a thread that you want to keep talking about...open a new one yourself...

[+Sensei TSKC]

I am in agreement with Torry - Why on earth do people want their independence taken away from them? Perhaps it would then be a good idea to let someone else find all the caches for us instead of getting up and doing it ourselves.

 

 

<MUM! Move me away from the radiator, I'm burning!>

[+The Golem]

Don't trust the pig....

[+Simply Paul]

I find Golems comment VERY funny for reasons only a few people will know. Those who do to, will also be chuckling

[NickPick]

I find Golems comment VERY funny for reasons only a few people will know. Those who do to, will also be chuckling

 

I'm intrigued.

[+wizard1974uk]

I am in agreement with Torry - Why on earth do people want their independence taken away from them? Perhaps it would then be a good idea to let someone else find all the caches for us instead of getting up and doing it ourselves.

 

 

<MUM! Move me away from the radiator, I'm burning!>

 

I don't call it loosing your independence, maybe I'm into the old school of running a forum, I like to know what threads are being closed, I would rather have a user PM me requesting that a thread they have started be closed. Things can easily spiral out of control if you don't know everything that is going on.

Edited June 27, 2006 by wizard1974uk

[Lactodorum]

I don't call it loosing your independence, maybe I'm into the old school of running a forum, I like to know what threads are being closed, I would rather have a user PM me requesting that a thread they have started be closed. Things can easily spiral out of control if you don't know everything that is going on.

Maybe, but that's the way the Groundspeak Forum works. If you feel it should be changed you could try contacting Groundspeak or posting in the General forums. I don't have any say in the way it's been set up, I just work with the way it is.

[+Torry]

Don't trust the pig....

 

Hey! She said she was 18. ... What's a fella supposed to do?

[+Roving Rangies]

Don't trust the pig....

 

I certainly don't, have you seen the "Photo"?

[+Simply Paul]

I find Golems comment VERY funny for reasons only a few people will know. Those who do to, will also be chuckling

I'm intrigued.

Alas, I can say no more.

[+The Golem]

Don't trust the pig....

 

I certainly don't, have you seen the "Photo"?

 

I've tried to find it but I can't!!

[+Simply Paul]

I think they meant the pig in a rubber suit, as seen in the taaaaaalll avatar image.

[+The Golem]

Right, while this thread is a million miles off topic I'm going to post a link to Auntie Weasel's home page - have a look at this!

 

 

 

 

Edited cos I don't know the difference between a cache and a thread....I need a holiday!

Edited June 27, 2006 by The Golem

[+The Blorenges]

Thank you for sharing that, Golem.

 

MrsB

(still seeking enlightenment .... )

[+Nellies Knackers]

Please nobody mention bread!!!!

Oh bu**er I just did.

[+Moote]

I think I know of the tread which started this controversial post. I would say that locking threads actually infringes The European Convention on Human Rights, also as does the Moderators editing them.

 

 

Rubbish!

 

"ARTICLE 1

 

The High Contracting Parties shall secure to everyone within their jurisdiction the rights and freedoms defined in Section I of this Convention."

 

The convention only applies to contracting states. So the UK can breach someone's rights, but you, me and a moderator can't. How do you plan to enforce human rights breaches by the moderators for example? The Human Rights Act 1998 only applies to the acts of public authorities. A public authority is a body carrying out public functions, which by definition is somethign the state can do, but others can't. Arrest and lawful detention for example are public functions, moderating this forum clearly isn't.

 

What this means is that the state cannot act so as to limit expression beyond the limits set out in article 10, but it has no application to this forum.

 

Partial Quote, I believe What about Article 10

 

And as the Forum is Moderated by UK individuals, they are with in a contracting state, so their actions are governed by the Law of this land.

[Lactodorum]

Is this where I exert my super powers and close the thread?

 

No?

 

Oh! OK then, carry on..........

 

I know my rights!!!

Edited June 27, 2006 by Lactodorum

[+wizard1974uk]

Is this where I exert my super powers and close the thread?

 

No?

 

Oh! OK then, carry on..........

 

I know my rights!!!

 

We don't want you to do yourself an injury by attempting be superman and fly out of the window

Edited June 27, 2006 by wizard1974uk

[Lactodorum]

Is this where I exert my super powers and close the thread?

 

No?

 

Oh! OK then, carry on..........

 

I know my rights!!!

 

We don't want you to do yourself an injury by attempting be superman and fly out of the window

Superman? I know my tights....

[+Learned Gerbil]

 

 

Partial Quote, I believe What about Article 10

 

And as the Forum is Moderated by UK individuals, they are with in a contracting state, so their actions are governed by the Law of this land.

 

That is all of Article 1. It was not a partial quote.

 

As for Article 10 the whole thing says -

 

"ARTICLE 10

 

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. this right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or the rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary."

 

So you are right, taken with Article 1 the UK has an obligation to ensure your right to freedom of expression. Now please tell me, how exactly does the UK protect you from someone closing a thread? And what does that have to do with freedom of expression?

 

Regardless of what happens here you have the right write to the Times about your concerns, stand on a street corner with a placard saying "Unlock that thread!" or make a Palm D'Or winning documentary about the oppression of poor Geocachers by the all powerful thread owners. You seem to be confusing your right of freedom of expression with a belief that you should be able to express yourself where and when you want regardless of the wishes of others. Whilst I agree that thread closing because the owner doesn't like where a discussion is going may be bad manners, the Human Rights Convention is a complete red herring.

 

I happen to agree that thread owners should think carefully about closing threads and should not do so whilst it is activly discussing something out of respect for the people posting, but it does annoy me the way people tryand drag the Human Rights Convention into all sorts of unrelated discussions.

 

Where the convention would be relevant were the UK to legislate on what could or could not be discussed in this forum. For example it might want to ban the discussion and planning of acts of terrorism. The Civil Servants and Government lawyers concerned would spend many dozens of hours discussing how best to do this whilst staying on the right side of the second part of Article 10. As this would be a matter for the Home Office they would not doubt get overruled by a rabid Home Secretary and two years down the line they would find everything they had done was overturned by the courts becasue they had not applied Article 10 properly to correctly balance the rights of expression with the responsibilites following the exercise of that right.

[+Torry]

Don't trust the pig....

 

I certainly don't, have you seen the "Photo"?

 

I've tried to find it but I can't!!

 

[+Torry]

She said she was 18. ... That was a lot of beers ago.

[+Roving Rangies]

I think I know of the tread which started this controversial post. I would say that locking threads actually infringes The European Convention on Human Rights, also as does the Moderators editing them.

 

Article 10

 

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

 

So locking threads is a bad Idea, and as the Americans agree to uphold this convention whilst operating on EU soil, Groundspeak have to comply

 

Moote, Will you kindly do me a favour, seeming as you obviously enjoy fighting for the universe.

 

Will you please go and get your soap box and take it to Hyde Park Corner in London and shout your head off there, where Thousands of possible people may be vaguely interested in what you say, only to be honest... there are more than a few of us here, which are getting very tired of consatnt complaining about caches, caching and anything to do with the hobby.

 

We enjoy our hobby as it is, not as you want it to be!!

 

Thank-you!

[+Roving Rangies]

She said she was 18. ... That was a lot of beers ago.

 

and a lot of beers ago, thank goodness I don't look like that anymore.

I actually had my leg in plaster at the time the photo was taken.... its a shame the pig was wrapped in foil!

[+Torry]

She said she was 18. ... That was a lot of beers ago.

 

and a lot of beers ago, thank goodness I don't look like that anymore.

I actually had my leg in plaster at the time the photo was taken.... its a shame the pig was wrapped in foil!

 

Ahhh, those were the days! ... I've since graduated up to plastic wrap and duct tape if you're interested. ... You bring the peanut butter and I'll provide the sheep. ... Woo-woo!

[+Roving Rangies]

She said she was 18. ... That was a lot of beers ago.

 

and a lot of beers ago, thank goodness I don't look like that anymore.

I actually had my leg in plaster at the time the photo was taken.... its a shame the pig was wrapped in foil!

 

Your making me blush! All these people are reading this! I know a fetish is a fetish, but here??

[+Moote]

 

 

Partial Quote, I believe What about Article 10

 

And as the Forum is Moderated by UK individuals, they are with in a contracting state, so their actions are governed by the Law of this land.

 

That is all of Article 1. It was not a partial quote.

 

As for Article 10 the whole thing says -

 

"ARTICLE 10

 

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. this right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or the rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary."

 

So you are right, taken with Article 1 the UK has an obligation to ensure your right to freedom of expression. Now please tell me, how exactly does the UK protect you from someone closing a thread? And what does that have to do with freedom of expression?

 

Regardless of what happens here you have the right write to the Times about your concerns, stand on a street corner with a placard saying "Unlock that thread!" or make a Palm D'Or winning documentary about the oppression of poor Geocachers by the all powerful thread owners. You seem to be confusing your right of freedom of expression with a belief that you should be able to express yourself where and when you want regardless of the wishes of others. Whilst I agree that thread closing because the owner doesn't like where a discussion is going may be bad manners, the Human Rights Convention is a complete red herring.

 

I happen to agree that thread owners should think carefully about closing threads and should not do so whilst it is activly discussing something out of respect for the people posting, but it does annoy me the way people tryand drag the Human Rights Convention into all sorts of unrelated discussions.

 

Where the convention would be relevant were the UK to legislate on what could or could not be discussed in this forum. For example it might want to ban the discussion and planning of acts of terrorism. The Civil Servants and Government lawyers concerned would spend many dozens of hours discussing how best to do this whilst staying on the right side of the second part of Article 10. As this would be a matter for the Home Office they would not doubt get overruled by a rabid Home Secretary and two years down the line they would find everything they had done was overturned by the courts becasue they had not applied Article 10 properly to correctly balance the rights of expression with the responsibilites following the exercise of that right.

 

Yup, and you can use this as a lever in a case of freedom of expression, as it already has been done.

[+Hi-Tek]

As TPTB have seen fit to give me the ability to close any topic that I've started, I reserve the right to do so at a time of MY choosing. That may, or may not, upset other users of this forum. I'm sorry if you're one of those that gets upset about it but currently, I have that right and I'll use it if I feel the need to.

 

I have no idea if the forum Moderators have the ability to re-open a thread that a mere mortal has closed or would, even if they could. As has already been stated, if you want to carry on the 'discussion' feel free to start your own topic.

Seconded.

 

If I 'open' a thread then I consider myself as the 'owner' of said thread and reserve the right to close it for whatever reason I deem valid. Should anyone else wish to open one on the same or similar topic then they have the right to do so - as do I. I treat a topic as I do a cache, if I start (place) it, then I have no qualms about closing (archiving) it when I feel the need to.

[nobby.nobbs]

obviously some people think that what they have to say is far too important to be missed by anyone.......

[+Roving Rangies]

If I 'open' a thread then I consider myself as the 'owner' of said thread and reserve the right to close it for whatever reason I deem valid. Should anyone else wish to open one on the same or similar topic then they have the right to do so - as do I. I treat a topic as I do a cache, if I start (place) it, then I have no qualms about closing (archiving) it when I feel the need to.

 

I quite agree, you open a thread...you should decide when to close it...not unless you are on your hols and someone trashes it while you are away, then I think a moderator should have the final say!