Tri-station / Az Question

[+Ernmark]

Forgive me if this has been in a thread before - I have noticed that on the NGS datasheets for Triangulation Stations in what I've seen referred to as the "box score" (see example for KW2112 below) the AZ mark has a different "series" PID number (I see this w/ RM's sometimes also - although they seem to be listed this way when they aren't in the NGS database seperately)

 

KW2112|---------------------------------------------------------------------|

KW2112| PID Reference Object Distance Geod. Az |

KW2112| dddmmss.s |

KW2112| KW2829 CARLISLE DICKINSON SCH CHAPEL APPROX. 1.4 KM 0031945.8 |

KW2112| KW2834 CARLISLE TIRE AND RUBBER S TK APPROX. 2.6 KM 0094209.5 |

KW2112| KW2835 CARLISLE TIRE AND RUBBER N TK APPROX. 2.5 KM 0102121.9 |

KW2112| KW2830 CARLISLE MASLAND CARPET TANK APPROX. 2.4 KM 0245143.5 |

KW2112| KW2840 CARLISLE C H MASLAND STACK APPROX. 2.4 KM 0245703.8 |

KW2112| KW2113 HOME RM 1 21.723 METERS 03123 |

KW2112| KW2836 CARLISLE BOROUGH WATER CO TANK APPROX. 0.7 KM 0460637.4 |

KW2112| KW2842 CARLISLE RAD STA WHYL NW MAST APPROX. 2.2 KM 0745548.3 |

KW2112| KW2843 CARLISLE RAD STA WHYL CEN MAST APPROX. 2.2 KM 0792722.6 |

KW2112| CK7494 HOME AZ MK 0851522.2 |

KW2112| KW2114 HOME RM 2 21.278 METERS 14500 |

KW2112| KW2118 WEIBLEY APPROX. 3.2 KM 2570124.1 |

KW2112|---------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

...I'm curious about KW2112 specifically since there seems to be no description of an AZ mark associated w/ this tri-station or RM's

 

1.) Where would I find for example "CK7494" - it doesn't seem to be in the NGS database(including destroyed's) and this is deep in KW**** territory...

 

2.) If I run across one of these that is destroyed, would I submit w/ the PID of the main station or it's own non-standard PID?

 

3.) Does this make sense?

 

Thanks for any info,

 

- E

Edited June 21, 2006 by Ernmark

[Bill93]

The things that look like PIDs in a different series are apparently used for identification in the data base but do not represent points with official data values. If the number does not come up in a search of the NGS data base, there is no place to look them up.

 

Your report for the AZ mark or other reference mark goes on the data sheet for the main station unless you can find a data sheet for the AZ mark itself. There are a few cases where the AZ mark was also fully measured and has its own data sheet. I see this fairly often in USGS 1960's work, but it isn't common among the 1934/1935 stations or other C&GS or NGS work around here.

 

Usually there is mention of the AZ mark in the description of the main mark. Without that, I would look at some other data sheets in that area at about that time to see what typical distances they were using. The 1930's standard seems to be about 1/4 mile, but by the 1960's it was not uncommon to find them a few miles out. Then I would set my GPS to goto KW2112 and travel east about that far, looking for posts and likely places to have put a disk where the goto gives a bearing of 85+180 = 265 degrees. In a developed area this could be a difficult search. Was I81 a road in 1960? The construction is dangerously close to where an AZ mark might have been.

Edited June 21, 2006 by Bill93

[+m&h]

Our experience is somewhat limited--we've been doing this for about a year and don't find them in large numbers--but in that experience we have often found azimuth marks to be structures that can be sighted on from the primary mark. Here, though, it would seem that the azimuth mark would have to be occupied with a leveling rod or the like. If it were anything other than a disk, we suppose it would have a name other than "Home AZ Mark." We haven't yet encountered this situation.

[+Ernmark]

Was I81 a road in 1960? The construction is dangerously close to where an AZ mark might have been.

 

I-81 came thru in this area in about 1965...this one puzzles me because of the lack on info on the AZ - all the other tri-stations in this area list a description if there is an associated AZ ...

[mloser]

I have never seen an AZI that wasn't described either. I wonder if the building of I-81 destroyed it or if it might be on the bridge where I-81 crosses 34 . I didn't measure the angle (I am at work without my map program now) but it seems like that bridge might be at about 85 degrees from the station. It is also about 1/2 mile from the station, which isn't abnormal for 1960ish marks.

Of course, it is also possible that the construction of I-81 destroyed the mark, especially if it was along 34 or Spring Garden St to the east.

[+Ernmark]

Hmmm...I'm thinking the nice quet area that became the "MJ Mall" then regraded again to become Wal*Mart...