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Geothieves?


sciuchetti

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I've only been geocaching for just under 6 months and have run into many geocachers along the way. I have never met a cacher that I didn't like. However, are their are theives among us? - I'm not talking about caches that go missing, we don't know if muggles or cachers take them - I'm talking about jeeps and geocoins. I like seeing the coins and finding the jeeps. However, if a coin or jeep is listed in a cache more than half the time it is missing from the cache and never turns up. Are stealing these coins or jeeps acceptable in geocaching or do we have theives among us?

 

Also, I want to know about cachers that keep these items. (At least they log them). I thought the rules for coins and jeeps were to move them someplace else where others are able to enjoy them. There are jeeps and coins that people have held for months (sometimes years) and this too seems acceptable. Am I missing something? If their is no intent to put these back in a cache, isn't this another form of stealing?

 

I'm not trying to upset anyone or point my finger at any individual - I just don't understand the mentality. Can someone explain it to me?

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However, are their are theives among us? - I'm not talking about caches that go missing, we don't know if muggles or cachers take them - I'm talking about jeeps and geocoins.

 

Interesting, I was just about to post the same thing.

 

In the past two or three months I've noticed an alarming trend in the Tacoma/Fife/south FederalWay area where 'most' coins appear missing. Do a search for travel bugs starting with zip 98023 and check out the ones with coins, I'd say over 2/3 are missing if you check the cache logs. Far too prevalent to be coincidence or newbie error. In particular, it's the relatively unusual coins that appear to be walking, sure looks like somebody's building a collection the wrong way :)

Edited by vds
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Try not to let it get you down. In any sampling of human population there's going to be a few bad apples.

I still think cachers are better than most.

 

I was happy to actually find a coin in a cache this weekend. And even happier to be able to swap it for one that I had. (Of course, neither are trackable, so that probably helped it stay in the cache.)

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Try not to let it get you down. In any sampling of human population there's going to be a few bad apples.

I still think cachers are better than most.

 

I was happy to actually find a coin in a cache this weekend. And even happier to be able to swap it for one that I had. (Of course, neither are trackable, so that probably helped it stay in the cache.)

I'll second Bull Moose's advise here. It's a fact of life some of these items are highly sought after for personal collections. I decided a long time ago in this sport not to let the things I can't control get me down, and to enjoy the things that are available to me when a cache brings me to a location. Everything else is gravy.

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How do people feel about jeeps that get taken (and logged) by a geocacher but the cacher never moves the jeep on to give another person a chance to find it? You can look at lots of the jeeps and see that cachers have had them for anywhere from 6 months to 2 years - Isn't this just another form of collecting what doesn't belong to them?

 

All you got to do is pick an active cache - see the jeeps that went through the cache and look who has them and when they were logged last. Most of them look like they are being permantly borrowed to someones collection (and you even get to see who is collecting them)

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:D

Uh.. This is embarassing. I picked up a white Jeep last year (at a terrachace of all places). I thought I'd check to see if it was still moving before I commented on this.

It said I still had it.

Hmm... I swear I moved it along... except for it's sitting in my bucket of caching stuff that I haven't touched much since I started school.

Whoops.

I better move it on this weekend. (Of course then there's the issue of the cacher that grabs them to "loan" them out to people on the condition they come back to his cache.

 

(Yeah, I'm not sure how I missed it in the TB reminder either. My only excuse is that I have a couple personal TBs that are always stacked up there.)

Edited by Bull Moose
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I have a yellow jeep that I picked up in Feb of '06 and I still have it. I don't feel guilty about still having because it is going into a cache that I have planned to visit that involves a lonnnngggg hike to get to. When I do the cache I will drop it there. It will be a nice reward for the next cacher. I wonder how many of the jeep TB's were never released, and kept by those trusted to distribute them?

 

I'm not really into the travel coins, mostly because they are never there when I go to a cache where they are listed. If I wanted to collect coins I would be buying them, not claiming finders keepers on somebody else's property.

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Hello,

My first post. I have released four coins in the last couple of months, and had planned on dropping many more but they don't seem to stay moving. 75% of mine were pickted up from a cache but not put back in circulation. The one still moving is in a cache now. I have taken to putting "Do NOT take unless you plan to put in another cache soon, Thanks" (an idea I picked up from Markta and his coins). But the only coin that I tried that on was never even logged and is missing from the local APE cache. I guess I need to figure how to remove missing things from a cache.

It is discouraging and seems to me not very "Geo" like. I am glad to see FunnyNose has had better luck. It is always a rush to find a coin especially since I haven't figured out how to run a query to look for coins and when I find them it is usually unexpected.

If a trackable coins is released I think it is meant to be shared like great cache locations themselves.

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Hello,

My first post. I have released four coins in the last couple of months, and had planned on dropping many more but they don't seem to stay moving. 75% of mine were pickted up from a cache but not put back in circulation. The one still moving is in a cache now. I have taken to putting "Do NOT take unless you plan to put in another cache soon, Thanks" (an idea I picked up from Markta and his coins). But the only coin that I tried that on was never even logged and is missing from the local APE cache. I guess I need to figure how to remove missing things from a cache.

It is discouraging and seems to me not very "Geo" like. I am glad to see FunnyNose has had better luck. It is always a rush to find a coin especially since I haven't figured out how to run a query to look for coins and when I find them it is usually unexpected.

If a trackable coins is released I think it is meant to be shared like great cache locations themselves.

 

First of all, welcome.

 

Considering a recent conversation, you might want to define what 'soon' means.

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I've notice that many of the more active forum users have stayed away from posting on this topic. Is it because this is just a way of life in caching so they don't have an oppinion, their has already been too much talk about this in previous forums, or that it really is acceptable to most of us but that would be an unpopular thing to say?

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I've notice that many of the more active forum users have stayed away from posting on this topic. Is it because this is just a way of life in caching so they don't have an oppinion, their has already been too much talk about this in previous forums, or that it really is acceptable to most of us but that would be an unpopular thing to say?

 

I thought it was because it was a regional forum. I tend to 'view all' and respond. Then I noticed it's outside my area.

 

Oh well. Too bad, so sad. :grin:

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It is more than people not knowing any better - You can tell who some of these people are - For example, pull up somebody that has lots of finds, look jeeps (or geocoins) that the person has found and see where they went. Some people have them after an extended period of time. Some as long as 2-years. I was surprised to see who some of the people are that are holding jeeps or coins. I was hoping to get an explination of why this is acceptable from one of them or hope that they would put the items back in circulation (in case they really did forget that they had them)

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I drive a Jeep so I decided to keep my first Yellow jeep tb. I do have a white jeep that I've had for months, but it's moving into my next hide which may occur next weekend if conditions allow. As for Moun10bike geocoins, I've found a lot of his first edition coins, but kept only the lowest number. In those days, he ok'd keeping one for collection, but if they have 1 K miles, they should be moved to another cache. But lately, I've been thinking I might put that old coin back in circulation, but I ask that it keep moving along and to special caches.

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I've notice that many of the more active forum users have stayed away from posting on this topic. Is it because this is just a way of life in caching so they don't have an oppinion, their has already been too much talk about this in previous forums, or that it really is acceptable to most of us but that would be an unpopular thing to say?

 

It's likely a two fold answer. One it's a regional forum and we are a friendly bunch here and tend to shy away from hot button topics like this one. The second and more important one is that there is an entire forum dedicated to discussing travel bug issues. The Geocaching Hitchhiker forum has two topics one for travel bugs and one for geocoins. This topic rightly belongs there. I can move it into that forum if you wish. I left it in here in with the idea that you would get fewer responses but that they would reflect the feelings of the Northwest cachers. I assume that is what you wanted when you posted your thread in here and not in the travel bug forum.

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Please leave it here...I was hoping to get answers from the people here becasue this is where I notice it happening - and this is where I know some of the cachers.

 

I started this topic out of frustration of going after another coin and it being gone from the cache. It happens all the time. It seems that I may be in a small minority of cachers that is frustrated by this occurance here in the NW so it just might be my problem I need to get over - or I need to stop looking for Coins knowing they probably are not there and just be happy if I find one.

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While I do not read the hitchhiker's forum, I tend to think this is a problem generally and not just a NW problem. I have seen logs in caches around the country that indicate that jeeps, coins, and TBs in general are not in the cache even though listed there. The only coins that move are the USA Geocoins, but those are so generic and they are so easy to get, they don't tend to become collectible. I seldom see a jeep icon when I look at caches anywhere. I'm sure most of them wound up in cacher's private collection. I might add that the only coins I have were given to me or I bought. I have no jeeps at present, although I have a watch on the one with my name and if it ever moves into this area, I will keep that one. That one hasn't moved in a very long time so it is probably in someone's collection. The problem with jeeps and coins is that they are so collectible. The WSGA coins that I bought last year were not activated, but dropped in caches so I can't tell you how many are still moving. I did activate one of them. I kept that one.

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Please leave it here...I was hoping to get answers from the people here becasue this is where I notice it happening - and this is where I know some of the cachers.

 

I started this topic out of frustration of going after another coin and it being gone from the cache. It happens all the time. It seems that I may be in a small minority of cachers that is frustrated by this occurance here in the NW so it just might be my problem I need to get over - or I need to stop looking for Coins knowing they probably are not there and just be happy if I find one.

 

We've all been there. We all share the frustration, but as TotemLake said:

 

It's a fact of life some of these items are highly sought after for personal collections. I decided a long time ago in this sport not to let the things I can't control get me down, and to enjoy the things that are available to me when a cache brings me to a location.

 

The only thing you can do is let the person who is registered as being the coin/bug owner know via a note to the bug page or an email that their item isn't in the cache where the site says it is. As the owner they can move it to an 'unknown' location and get it off the cache page. The cache owner can also do this to any bugs in their cache that they confirm to be missing.

 

I never go to a cache specifically looking for bugs/coins. I did that a few times, I was trying to grab a specific bug for a friend to help it finish it's journey. I kept getting to the cache hours after someone else had been there and grabbed the bug. In some cases, they didn't even indicate in the log that they had taken the bug so I had no idea if it had been lost/stolen/muggled or what. I gave up chasing bugs after that. If I find them I'm surprised and that's adds to the enjoyment of a cache. If I don't I find other things about the cache to enjoy.

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Please leave it here...I was hoping to get answers from the people here becasue this is where I notice it happening - and this is where I know some of the cachers.

 

I started this topic out of frustration of going after another coin and it being gone from the cache. It happens all the time. It seems that I may be in a small minority of cachers that is frustrated by this occurance here in the NW so it just might be my problem I need to get over - or I need to stop looking for Coins knowing they probably are not there and just be happy if I find one.

I think I'm the cause of this. I just found a mini-coin I'd picked up in the bottom of my kit (I've now logged it right). I see that sciuchetti had posted a note about that coin the same day this thread started. If I find a coin that is tracked I will pass it on - even though the temptation is there to keep it. Untracked/unactivated coins are trade items and can be kept if wanted.

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The late log on the coin was not the cause of this topic (Although it did contribute to it on some level) - One or two lost / muggled coins or jeeps in an area is one thing but I have seen several in a day. It is the total package - not one example that started this topic.

 

I did a search of yellow jeeps that I could find that went missing in our area - I have only found one still being logged and it is by one person going from event to event with the same jeep and letting people log it. I have a list of 22 more that have been lost in this area (last logged in the Seattle area before being marked unknown) - or have been logged to one person for more than 6 months. I'm sure this list isn't complete.

 

There are simular numbers for the white jeeps - Although those still get moved around once in a while.

 

Geocoins that are untracked, unactivated, or allowed by the owner to be kept (like some of the mount10bike coins) - are not the frustration. People are still "playing by the rules" if these are kept. It is all the other ones that should travel around that end up missing or unlogged in the area caches that create the frustration. I like seeing these coins too. I'm willing to play by the rules in order to see the coins (ie finding them in a cache) - If somebody beats me to a cache - that is great. I hope I have better luck next time. However, when somebody takes a coin (or a jeep) out of circulation without giving others an opprotunity to find it against the owners instructions - I feel robbed.

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Just like to add that from what I've read in the forums this is not unique to the NW and is just the way it is. I have enough stress in my life that if I let things like this really get to me I'd be curled up in a corner playing with my belly button. Or trying to catch flutterbys that only I can see.

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The late log on the coin was not the cause of this topic (Although it did contribute to it on some level) - One or two lost / muggled coins or jeeps in an area is one thing but I have seen several in a day. It is the total package - not one example that started this topic.

 

I did a search of yellow jeeps that I could find that went missing in our area - I have only found one still being logged and it is by one person going from event to event with the same jeep and letting people log it. I have a list of 22 more that have been lost in this area (last logged in the Seattle area before being marked unknown) - or have been logged to one person for more than 6 months. I'm sure this list isn't complete.

 

There are simular numbers for the white jeeps - Although those still get moved around once in a while.

 

Geocoins that are untracked, unactivated, or allowed by the owner to be kept (like some of the mount10bike coins) - are not the frustration. People are still "playing by the rules" if these are kept. It is all the other ones that should travel around that end up missing or unlogged in the area caches that create the frustration. I like seeing these coins too. I'm willing to play by the rules in order to see the coins (ie finding them in a cache) - If somebody beats me to a cache - that is great. I hope I have better luck next time. However, when somebody takes a coin (or a jeep) out of circulation without giving others an opprotunity to find it against the owners instructions - I feel robbed .

I think you're making more of this than needs to be. You can't be robbed of anything you didn't have in the first place. You can only gain that what you didn't have if it is available. You're building a level of angst that isn't needed nor desired. You can't push people to play the same way you want to play.

 

So based on that, quit worrying about what you can't control. You can only control your own destiny and even then some yahoo out there will cause you to vary that a little bit. The best advise I can give you is to cache on and make a positive thing out of it instead something negative.

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if for no other reason than to tell me that I am wrong

 

You are not wrong.

 

Every geocacher can see this occurring, it happens everywhere, you are right, the people who take and keep geocoins and jeeps are geothieves. Threads like this one point out that they are indeed geothieves regardless of the rationale they use to justify the theft. In addition to being geothieves they are very bad for geocaching generally as their actions destroy the trust of the geocaching community.

 

It isn't hard to find one of these geothieves who has decided they have the right to deprive every geocacher in the world of the chance to participate as intended. I find it amazing that the geothieves hold jeeps captive and then take them and display them at events, they should be ashamed and they quite rightly deserve the scorn of every member of the geocaching community, not praise or acclaim.

 

The geocaching.com website provides a profile notice telling geocachers that they have kept a TB too long. The message is a clear reminder that they do not own the TB and they should release it. Many geocachers are blithe about ignoring this really simple parameter, you are right, they are geothieves.

 

It isn't confined to jeeps but the geocachers who take and keep the jeeps have all sorts of excuses and reasons that attempt to justify what they have done, they really want acclaim when they display the items they have stolen from the worldwide geocaching community and branding them as geothieves is a good way to prevent that.

 

If you see a geocacher displaying a jeep that they have taken and held captive go ahead and let them know how you feel about geothieves, it can only help.

 

Thanks for starting this thread sciuchetti.

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I have just come across two occasions where a TB or a coin was logged out of a cache with a "discovered it" log.

 

On the TB page, this appeared as a smiley, rather than the customary symbol of the bug with the upwards arrow.

 

On the cache page, the TB/coin shows as if it is still inside the cache. In one of those cases, the cache was mine, and I marked the coin as missing, so people wouldn't look for it in vain.

 

I don't know what the point of those 'discovered it' smileys is (as opposed to the customary 'retrieved it' logs, but they sure mess up the system.

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If the TB was logged out of the cache with a Discovered, then this is a bug. My understanding of the Discovered It is to prevent the multiple in/out of the cache the bug drops make when a person grabs and returns it back to the cache. That bug should be reported to TPTB with the appropriate details.

Edited by TotemLake
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I did a search of yellow jeeps that I could find that went missing in our area - I have only found one still being logged and it is by one person going from event to event with the same jeep and letting people log it.

I have a feeling the person you talk of is me. :P

I got frustrated a while back at not being able to find a yellow jeep, or just missing one that was placed in a cache, so I talked with someone who had a few in his inventory and arranged a TB trade. Since then I've been taking it around to the events I attend, giving people a chance to see and log it, especially if they havn't had the chance before - 4 of the people hadn't logged one before. I have plans to drop it into a cache sometime, but I havn't decided when or where... probably something difficult or interesting.

 

As to coins and such disappearing, I share peoples' frustration. There havn't been many times that coins go missing that I am seeking, they usually just get picked up before I get there. I havn't created any coins for releasing into the wild, but I might in the future. When I do, I hope I'll be as lucky as FunnyNose has been with his.

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I've only been geocaching for just under 6 months and have run into many geocachers along the way. I have never met a cacher that I didn't like. However, are their are theives among us? - I'm not talking about caches that go missing, we don't know if muggles or cachers take them - I'm talking about jeeps and geocoins. I like seeing the coins and finding the jeeps. However, if a coin or jeep is listed in a cache more than half the time it is missing from the cache and never turns up. Are stealing these coins or jeeps acceptable in geocaching or do we have theives among us?

 

Also, I want to know about cachers that keep these items. (At least they log them). I thought the rules for coins and jeeps were to move them someplace else where others are able to enjoy them. There are jeeps and coins that people have held for months (sometimes years) and this too seems acceptable. Am I missing something? If their is no intent to put these back in a cache, isn't this another form of stealing?

 

I'm not trying to upset anyone or point my finger at any individual - I just don't understand the mentality. Can someone explain it to me?

 

Now that the green Jeep contest has started and the time has past for people who recieved Jeeps from Groundspeak to have placed them, I thought I would bump this topic up to the front again.

 

When I saw the new green Jeep my first thought was "That's not nearly as cool as last years white one". My next thought was "good!, maybe more of them will be in caches and get moved along". Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

I've learned a lot about geocaching ettiquete by reading the forums. Hopefully at least a few people will read this topic and reallize it's not OK to collect these as souvineers and start moving them along.

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I don't consider myself a Geo-thief, I’m more of a lazy, good for nothing, sloth-like geocacher with the memory of a sieve.

Found a White jeep TB in the bottom of a no longer used caching bag a week ago. Boy was my face red when I realized how long I’ve had that one anyway it has since been placed in a cache.

I also have in my possession a couple of Green jeep TBs that I had meant to place when I was caching in the Moses Lake area last week however I accidentally left them at home. I’m not caching this weekend, however I should be the weekend after and they will be released into the wild at that time.

Yep I’ve had them for more than 2-weeks and I feel bad about it, however not bad enough to just drop them into just any urban cache.

That is my story and I’m sticking to it.

:lol:

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