Take Back The Forums!

[+wimseyguy]

So it seems in this particular instance we did all get along, well mostly.

Remind me again just who we are supposed to be taking the forums back from again?

 

I do think that something extreme is just around the corner. This is the second or third time in recent memory that I have agreed with both sbell and CR,and they both agreed with each other! Strange days indeed! See we really are all getting along!

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

So it seems in this particular instance we did all get along, well mostly.

Remind me again just who we are supposed to be taking the forums back from again? ...

Sigh! I really hate repeating myself, but here it is once again (sigh):

 

The OP had discovered evidence that the minds (and bodies) of many of the more frequent posters to this forum have been taken over by alien beings from a distant star system (and, incidentally, from another "dimension" or level of time-space) who were using these pawns to impress their own alien political agenda upon the forum thread, to shape geocaching to the nefarious purposes of the evil alien invaders, which happens to be no less than the invasion of earth and the subjugation and enslavement of our Barred Plymouth Rock hens, domesticated horses and Runner ducks. The OP had kindly pointed this out, and had asked that the frequent forum posters report to their nearest Alien Deprogramming center to detect any such alien programs and/or brain implants, and, if found, to have them removed. In other words, he wanted us to band together and take back the forums from the evil alien gray influence. Did I really have to repeat myself here? sigh!

 

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2006 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+sbell111]

For those of you who say I opened this thread for any but the reason stated - here's a quote from our local forum today.

 

I hear similar things often, and should never!

 

...I don't really want to post on GC because they're not the friendliest bunch over there and I don't want to get laughed off the forums or run off with pitchforks.

I tried to access your local forums to find the context surrounding the referenced post, but Alacache.com was down. How about posting a link?

Edited June 19, 2006 by sbell111

[ju66l3r]

 

...I don't really want to post on GC because they're not the friendliest bunch over there and I don't want to get laughed off the forums or run off with pitchforks.

I tried to access your local forums to find the context surrounding the referenced post, but Alacache.com was down. How about posting a link?

 

I'd like to see it too. Since the quote references "being run off with pitchforks" (which was made in jest at the World Cup Ref that ruined the Italy v US game), I wouldn't be surprised if the thread started with a loaded question from ARambler saying something like "would you post over here when they say things like in this thread about me!?!" or "have you seen some of the insanity over there [link to 'run him off with pitchforks' comment]...why don't more of you post over there??".

 

I'm not suggesting that's how it went down, only that it wouldn't surprise me if that's what we'll find if we look for that post in the local forum.

 

PS - You'll notice that there are about 30+ forums here (albeit some are regio-specific). By far, this general forum generates the most animosity and even some of the real beasties in this forum get along just fine with each other and others in the other forums. The idea that somehow this site's forums are out of control is over-generalization and hyperbole used as excuse for a lack of desire to come here for discussion.

Edited June 19, 2006 by ju66l3r

[+Miragee]

This post was certainly not in the spirit of "taking back the forums" and "trying to get along."

[+AtoZ]

The basic answer is NO. Humans thrive on contrivercy not cooperation. If everyone agrees then there is nothing to say. So no we can't get along.

cheers

[+sbell111]

This post was certainly not in the spirit of "taking back the forums" and "trying to get along."

Wacka called him on it in the very next post.

 

Which brings us back to the fact that the participants of this forum are pretty good at self-policing.

[+Stephanie2427]

"I'm looking for a Big Bear coin. The only coins I have are a few of

the AGA coins and a couple of Emerald Dragon coins. How do I know

what's a fair trade? And any tips on how to find someone who has a

Big Bear coin to trade? I don't really want to post on GC because

they're not the friendliest bunch over there and I don't want to get

laughed off the forums or run off with pitchforks. Are there any

other sites that are for coin trading?"

 

This is my original post that I posted yesterday on the temporary Alacache website last night. I will not defend my statement nor will I defend Rambler. I called him last night to tell him I was not comfortable with him quoteing me over here. He assured me that I would not be over run with hate email which was my only concern.

[+sbell111]

It's too bad, because I bet somebody in the geocoin forum area would know what to tell you.

[ju66l3r]

This is my original post that I posted yesterday on the temporary Alacache website last night. I will not defend my statement nor will I defend Rambler. I called him last night to tell him I was not comfortable with him quoteing me over here. He assured me that I would not be over run with hate email which was my only concern.

 

This wasn't your first post to these forums or even to Geocaching Topics specifically, so I'm curious as to why you thought your question would be received poorly.

 

As for your question, I'm sure Eartha et al in the Geocoin forum can help you find your answer.

[+sbell111]

For those of you who say I opened this thread for any but the reason stated - here's a quote from our local forum today.

 

I hear similar things often, and should never!

 

...I don't really want to post on GC because they're not the friendliest bunch over there and I don't want to get laughed off the forums or run off with pitchforks.

Reply from the referenced thread:

I'm definately no pro when it comes to coin trading (JoeFrog is the coin collecting pro here), but I've found that the geocoin discussions forum on Groundspeak is a great place to go for trading coins. Thats where most of the "hardcore" traders hang out. As for whats fair, just post a note and let them know what you have and I'm sure you'll get a bunch of offers.

[+Stephanie2427]

I post comments but I am not comfortable posting "noob" questions. To many times it seems "some" (not all) of the oldtimers criticizes the new people. I see replies like "Markwell" or "Thats already been covered." And those are the nice replies.

I'm sure I would have recieved friendly info on the geocoin forum but I am more comfortable asking the people I know. I also prefer to not take the chance of being ridiculed.

There are many friendly people here but there also a handful that make me uncomfortable and make me grimace when I see some of their "helpful" replies. It is good to see that others will call them on it but I prefer to not get slammed to start with.

I did not want to get into this debate. I only posted that i was the one to make the comment that Rambler posted to keep any uglieness that would result from it here and not bring it to the Alacache website.

[+sbell111]

I think its clear that he was trying to create controversy where it didn't exist.

[+briansnat]

I'm sure I would have recieved friendly info on the geocoin forum but I am more comfortable asking the people I know. I also prefer to not take the chance of being ridiculed.

There are many friendly people here but there also a handful that make me uncomfortable and make me grimace when I see some of their "helpful" replies.

 

If some old timer, or anyone ridicules someone who comes here with an earnest question, its a reflection on that person, not the one with the question. If someone like that were to ridicule you, you should just consider the source, ignore the jerk and wait for one of the many, very nice people here to help you out.

 

Actually I see mrkwells as a good thing as long as they are done tactfully. There is a big difference between "Try the search feature, that's been discussed many times so don't waste our time." and "There has been a lot of discussion regarding that topic in the past. Here are some links to these discussions that may be helpful". I think most markwells I've seen fall in the latter category.

[+Driver Carries Cache]

As a newbie, I have to say I feel un-loved.

 

Why didn't I recieve the standard "pitchfork" greeeting that everyone's talking about?

 

Is there something wrong with me?

 

But seriously,

 

Let me agree with the folks who have said this forum is much more well behaved than most.

 

As a newbie, and I came here to listen and learn. I've read all the posts about the events surrounding GeoWoodstock 4 and found the debate very educational. I have to say that what I've learned will definitely provide a base for how I behave "in the wild" and what I choose to hide and where I hide it when I place my first cache.

 

I feel like folks have been very nice to me here, providing pointers, sharing thier own experiences and some even contacting me by email to say "hey, you should come to our local event and meet everyone".

 

While I agree that no forum needs name-calling and personal attacks, discussion is all about the back and forth, the difference of opinion, and the emotion people feel for the topic. That's what makes it interesting.

 

I also love the twisted humor of many of the posters

 

Thanks for letting me chime in,

 

Driver Carries Cache

(madmike)

[+BlueDeuce]

I post comments but I am not comfortable posting "noob" questions. To many times it seems "some" (not all) of the oldtimers criticizes the new people. I see replies like "Markwell" or "Thats already been covered." And those are the nice replies.

I'm sure I would have recieved friendly info on the geocoin forum but I am more comfortable asking the people I know. I also prefer to not take the chance of being ridiculed.

There are many friendly people here but there also a handful that make me uncomfortable and make me grimace when I see some of their "helpful" replies. It is good to see that others will call them on it but I prefer to not get slammed to start with.

I did not want to get into this debate. I only posted that i was the one to make the comment that Rambler posted to keep any uglieness that would result from it here and not bring it to the Alacache website.

 

I hear ya, there are people I will contact directly to get answers. Not everything needs to be tossed out into the showring.

Edited June 19, 2006 by BlueDeuce

[+fishingfools]

I'm a lurker with a couple of finds, and I find these forums to be less than friendly. In my limited experience, most topics are just some variant of either micros suck, logging issues, or angst filled rants. I belong to several fishing forums, and they do not seem to have the aggressive attitude I see here.

 

Several people jumped all over me during my first visits here, and frankly it turned me off to this part of the sport.

 

This is just my opinion, and not meant as fuel to any current fires. Now I'm gonna put my fire suit on and await the hilarity that I'm sure will ensure

[uperdooper]

I'm a lurker with a couple of finds, and I find these forums to be less than friendly. In my limited experience, most topics are just some variant of either micros suck, logging issues, or angst filled rants. I belong to several fishing forums, and they do not seem to have the aggressive attitude I see here.

 

Several people jumped all over me during my first visits here, and frankly it turned me off to this part of the sport.

 

This is just my opinion, and not meant as fuel to any current fires. Now I'm gonna put my fire suit on and await the hilarity that I'm sure will ensure

 

well, i see the problem! you must have inadvertently petted something sweaty when you were here.

 

STOP THAT!!!!

[ju66l3r]

Several people jumped all over me during my first visits here, and frankly it turned me off to this part of the sport.

 

This is just my opinion, and not meant as fuel to any current fires. Now I'm gonna put my fire suit on and await the hilarity that I'm sure will ensure

 

I'm confused. Are you talking about your two pages of posts from 2003 and 2004 where you were cordial and having fun discussing things in the forums? Or the ones in Jan 2005...the first ones I can find from you where you made some snide comments about forum "regulars" needing to go caching if they're bored, which brought some ire back on you? It seems like your first visits were just fine...it's when you decided to get into the mix with a few people that it must have turned you off.

 

Also, telling people that you're donning your firesuit and awaiting hilarity usually means someone's going to fulfill your prophecy for you.

Edited June 19, 2006 by ju66l3r

[+fishingfools]

yep, those were the ones. I was very new, and admittedly foolish. I play here to have fun, and that wasnt fun for me, so I bugged out.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

For those of you who say I opened this thread for any but the reason stated - here's a quote from our local forum today.

 

I hear similar things often, and should never!

 

...I don't really want to post on GC because they're not the friendliest bunch over there and I don't want to get laughed off the forums or run off with pitchforks.

I tried to access your local forums to find the context surrounding the referenced post, but Alacache.com was down. How about posting a link?

 

I posted the relevant part and intentionally left out identifiers. Still, within thirty minutes of that post I got a phone call from the poster, worried that some of our more confrontational posters would track her down and send her nasty eamils because of what she'd said.

 

I assured her that I did not believe that would happen, but the fact that she's afraid for her words to appear here, even without attribution, reinforces my point that we could do a better job of being nice to people and listening to folks who rarely post here, just in case, to see if maybe my thoughts on this topic have any credibility.

 

It is a bit disturbing to me, and must be to her, to see that someone is indeed trying to track her down, whatever their reason, rather than take the quote at face value and debate its merit.

 

I was asked if I had an agenda. When I responded 'perhaps, I haven't thought about it and can't formulate it into words' I was accussed of a hidden agenda and motives related to other issues in other threads. This, along with yet another private note (with quite friendly and supportive intent, which I appreciate and encourage, even if I don't agree!) from someone here advising 'get out while you have any dignity left, you're digging yourself a hole', spurred me to contemplate just why I am here, at this time, writing these things.

 

I am here because;

I love to talk to people about geocaching.

I think these forums are (should be) the best place to talk about all but local or regional aspects of the game.

I think the game is at least equally about the people who play it as it is the caches, and people want to communicate.

 

Why am I here NOW?

Several concurrent reasons. Several unrelated things happened in a short period that in some cases were and in others were not within my control. All of them together at once caused problems any one individually would not have. The end result was losing a job (albeit volunteer) that was important to me. losing credibility among peers (many of whom I quite respect), becoming the subject of public scorn and criticism (some deserved, some quite off-base) and feeling like apologizing for my mistake and explaining what was going on with the rest was the right thing to do.

 

Having a certain dignity and ego, being accepted in and respected by any group I am involved in is important to me. I am content that in my comunities of daily activity that is true - as a church member, a ham radio operator, a Mason, a father, family and community member or participant in any other group I comport myself and act in a responsible way that is uplifting and helpful to others, supportive, willing, giving and kind.

 

Many of those descriptors fit the way I have heard others describe my role in this game. Using that feedback as a guide I feel I am 'doing a good job' as a geocacher. That impression is evidently what caused the Reviewer community to become aware of me, vote me in and recommend me to Groundspeak as a Reviewer.

 

Recently, in less than one month events come together in such a way that I am seriously under fire, involved in some way in several controversies, any one of which would likely have been minor if I was not embroiled in the others.

 

I am not a smooth talker, a great writer or politician, not a manipulator of opinion, and don't respond well to criticism, even deserved and well-intended, and much less so to the uninformed and unfounded. Knowing that, I could have taken the advice of some who recommended I stay out of here, leave it alone, let it die.

 

Niether am I a liar. There came a point in time when I knew the next words out of my mouth would affect me tremendously, and am quite certain a denial would have wrapped things up and I would still be a Reviewer.

 

Instead I told it as it was, warts and all, and got myself fired. The funny thing is the transgression I admitted to was fairly minor (I knowingly allowed someone to see my password to the Reviewer forum and did not change it until the next day, even though that person had no computer access overnight I should have changed it immediately) and the consensus of those involved (even the individual tasked with firing me) is that it would have been no big deal if I wasn't involved in these other controversies concurrently, so a lie would have been the expected and normal thing in many environments...most if not all of these late events, certainly my termination, turned on my inability to say "No, that didn't happen" instead of "Yes, I allowed that to happen". This happened to come during a time when rumors were flying that a certain geocacher had hacked or stolen password access to those forums, and since I had cached with him recently there was some serious worry that he had acted somehow with my knowledge or support. He acted (is still acting. I am told) on his own, but I got tarred with that brush, making my offense more serious in Groundspeak's mind.

 

I treat forums the same way - if I post here it is with the honest intention of that post, not a troll, nor stirring the pot, it's the truth as I know it and an attempt to make that topic better in some way.

 

So, I don't think keeping quiet is particularly good avice, and can't do it. I believe that had I done so my image and reputation would have ben scarred beyond repair in the international community. You will notice that when notables from one political party lob a verbal bomb at the other, the other responds quickly... they employ proffessional spinners just for that purpose, not because they want to, but because silence is widely accepted as an admission of guilt or culpability... so they bicker and even the most trivial escalates to national news and debate.

 

That's how I feel here - If I don't explain then in my silence someone else's words will do it for me, and not likely correctly nor to my benefit.

 

Lastly, why am I posting on these topics?

On the Dallas Record Run, I and my team-mates debated signing the log or container. I was both the team lead and a Reviewer, so when I said 'OK, we'll draw some fire, but I think it is acceptable in these circumstances' they didn't question it. I was wrong, it was much more violently opposed then I had thought it would be, it embarrassed the team and called all of our actions and character into question. As team lead I felt it my responsibility to step up, apologize, and offer restitution to any cache owner offended. When this forum refused to accept that and continued what I felt was a piling on of criticism and some harsh personal insinuations and attacks I tried as best I could to respond and explain: mostly I tried to defend the integrity of a team of men who did nothing intentionally wrong but yet who were being called all sorts of liar and cheat.

 

On Pocket Caches because I love them, still support them, see nothing wrong with them and intend to continue using them in whatever modified form TPTB allow. When pocket caches were attacked and derided I attempted to explain them and their history, as numerous posters obviously knew nothing about them. They were being improperly described, and they were a new concept to many. Jeremy had already put his foot down, so defending PCs wasn't a concern - understanding how and why they came about was, however, especially since few involved were willing to speak up in here. Good things do not often come from defending anything in this forum, so they didn't stick their neck out to do so!

As with the DRR controversy, some of the PC uproar was in the form of direct insult to anyone who participated, they again being called every sort of liar, cheat and scoundrel for particiipating in what was obviously (to those who were there) an accepted and enjoyable activity. I have not, nor has anyone I know, apologized for our role in Pocket Caches because we are not ashamed of it. I attended an event Saturday that had numerous Pocket Caches, we just made them into Travel Bugs or gave away stocked ammo cans to the finders, instead. The concepts and activity is the same, you just don't get a smilie.

I have defended those who played with Pocket Caches from unjust attack, however, and will continue to do so.

 

On The Nature Of The Game beacause I believe myself to have a unigue perspective on the game. I don't think there are many aspects of the game or variations on it that I have not played. My name is on perhaps 4,000 log sheets in caches in 23 states, though I haven't logged about 50% of them online. Officially I have found 1800 or so. Numbers don't mean a thing to me. Yet I have many times been involved in events where it IS all about the numbers. GeoWoodstock was created by and for high-numbers caches as a social event and an oportunity to run up numbers - you won't find it being held in any but the most cache-dense areas, and that event's motto is "Where it IS all about the numbers!". My 1K Gold Ammo Box sits prominantly in my office, as does the trophy my team won at The Amazing GeoRace, and the certificate for another team I was on for winning the international CacheLeague competition two years running. I have found remote mountaintop caches and lightpole micros, both alone and in groups. I have met literally thousands and cached with hundreds of geocachers from every walk of life, with every level of involvement and opinion about the game. I have been invited behind the curtain, as a Reviewer, to see the inner workings of the game, privy to secrets of a personal and business nature. I have seen how the Guidelines are interpreted, how they evolve, and have some insight into the direction certain major individuals want the game to take. All of that combines to give me a unique picture, a total experience that I doubt more than ten people in the world have, of the game and its players. So, when I see an area where I can educate, elucidate, help and promote this game, I try to do so. Sometimes that means reminding folks that "Play it your way" means that attempting to enforce upon others rigid adherence to a set of very flexible guidelines is not in the game's best interest! Please keep in mind that every one of us has such a unique perspective, I am not claiming mine to be anything but what it is, my experience, nor that it has any authority or validity yours doesn't have.

 

On 'the silent majority' because such a group does in fact exist, I interact with them daily, who will share thoughts and ideas in person that they will not write anywhere, and who will say things outside of this forum that they won't say here. We as a population are generally risk-averse and avoid controversy when possible. While I do not seek controversy I can deal with it, and so will often bring statements I hear from other people to the table when they need to be discussed.

 

On the tone of this forum, and the need for change, because a certain group of loud and frequent posters has made it their playground, where their opinion must carry the day or anyone daring to differ or confront them will be toasted. Yes, there is a herd mentality obvous here, and it is one that I believe the majority of geocachers find distateful. On this I have no 'proof' and wish Groundspeak would publish either an anonymous feedback mechanism with published reports or actually take a poll of all members asking 'Do you post in our forums, and why or why not'. That the majority in this forum currently disagree with this thesis is to be expected and is to me meaningless - we need to hear from those who don't post here to see if I am right or wrong. Until that happens I am going with my personal experience of having been told over and over that this place is too ugly to participate in, the evidence of many local frums being created by folks who could but choose not to speak here, and my personal experience of being misinterpreted and accussed of nastiness when I have nothing but the geocaching public's good at heart.

 

So, the OP here was, paraphrased, Can't we take a look at our own behavior and see if we individually should be nicer in here. That's really what I asked and am interested in... ways to make it safer and friendlier so that this forum can return to being about the geocaching experience as most of us experience and not the bully pulpit of a small group of vocal and active posters who currently control it.

 

Finally, overwhelmingly, those replies that had anything at all to do with the question sound to me like, 'No, we like the way we're treating people, anyone that disagrees can go away!' Tha tone or frum attitude is exactly why I am inviting inactive poster's to become more active, non-posters to speak out, and the message be delivered in here in writing as it is in voice in the community that geocachers need to take back the forums and make it a more hospitable place.

 

Nothing in this long post addresses any individual, insults or accusses anyone, is inflamatory or indiscrete, so if you have already voiced your opinion on me or this topic please refrain from stating it again and let some new vouces be heard without clutter - If you have spoken I did hear you and value your opinion.

 

Thank you.

 

Edited - added the word NOT to a sentence and corrected a spelling error

Edited June 19, 2006 by TheAlabamaRambler

[ju66l3r]

yep, those were the ones. I was very new, and admittedly foolish. I play here to have fun, and that wasnt fun for me, so I bugged out.

 

To each their own...but there's a budding analogy kicking around in my head about dancing on a bear trap and after it nips you, then blaiming the woods for having a bear trap in it and never going back into any woods ever again...

 

 

Something like that anyways.

[+wimseyguy]

And that's why your title is fishingfool

Stop crying in your beer, it just waters it down.

 

It's really a very fun place to hang out, sometimes.

 

BTW fishingfools is one of my closest geopals and a fellow charter member of Team CHB. We have kicked off each of the past three geoyears (early on Jan. 1) by going after a really nasty multi that has sat unfound for a while.

Edited June 19, 2006 by wimseyguy

[+briansnat]

I'm a lurker with a couple of finds, and I find these forums to be less than friendly. In my limited experience, most topics are just some variant of either micros suck, logging issues, or angst filled rants. I belong to several fishing forums, and they do not seem to have the aggressive attitude I see here.

 

Several people jumped all over me during my first visits here, and frankly it turned me off to this part of the sport.

 

This is just my opinion, and not meant as fuel to any current fires. Now I'm gonna put my fire suit on and await the hilarity that I'm sure will ensure

 

OK, out if curiosity I decided to see what kind of "jumping all over" was done to you. I checked your posts for your first seven months here. I didn't see any "jumping all over" at all. The worst thing I saw was a single, good natured ribbing about a typo filled post of yours and you made a good natured response to that about typing while drinking.

Edited June 19, 2006 by briansnat

[+sbell111]

Wow. That was some post. I hope you don't mind that I've parsed it down a little to make it manageable.

... even without attribution, reinforces my point that we could do a better job of being nice to people and listening to folks who rarely post here, just in case, to see if maybe my thoughts on this topic have any credibility.

 

It is a bit disturbing to me, and must be to her, to see that someone is indeed trying to track her down, whatever their reason, rather than take the quote at face value and debate its merit.

Since you quoted my post, I have to assume that you were referring to me in this comment.

 

I think its funny how you try to turn issues back on everyone else. The fact is, you clearly have an agenda and I was merely looking for the original thread (which you had parsed and not linked) to find out what had been removed and learn the context surrounding the statement.

 

As it turns out, you were making more out of the issue than necessary to further your own argument. I also think its funny that you mentioned your credibility. In fact, you have little credibility remaining, in one cacher's opinion.

...Instead I told it as it was, warts and all, and got myself fired. The funny thing is the transgression I admitted to was fairly minor (I knowingly allowed someone to see my password to the Reviewer forum and did not change it until the next day, even though that person had no computer access overnight I should have changed it immediately) and the consensus of those involved (even the individual tasked with firing me) is that it would have been no big deal if I wasn't involved in these other controversies concurrently, so a lie would have been the expected and normal thing in many environments...most if not all of these late events, certainly my termination, turned on my inability to say "No, that didn't happen" instead of "Yes, I allowed that to happen".

Interesting. Like mose cachers, I had not known the specifics of your 'termination'. In fact, I suspect that most people would have assumed that you left voluntarily if you had not referred to your firing so often recently.

 

That is beside the point, however. In places I have worked, knowingly giving out security passwords would have either gotten someone fired or jailed. There is nothing honorable about it. The fact that you did not lie about it after the fact doesn't make it more honorable, in my opinion.

... So, I don't think keeping quiet is particularly good avice, and can't do it. I believe that had I done so my image and reputation would have ben scarred beyond repair in the international community.

Well, you've now told your story. Must you continue to dredge it up? If you keep picking at the scab, it's never going to heal.

[+New England n00b]

For those of you who say I opened this thread for any but the reason stated - here's a quote from our local forum today.

 

I hear similar things often, and should never!

 

...I don't really want to post on GC because they're not the friendliest bunch over there and I don't want to get laughed off the forums or run off with pitchforks.

I tried to access your local forums to find the context surrounding the referenced post, but Alacache.com was down. How about posting a link?

 

I posted the relevant part and intentionally left out identifiers. Still, within thirty minutes of that post I got a phone call from the poster, worried that some of our more confrontational posters would track her down and send her nasty eamils because of what she'd said.

 

I assured her that I did not believe that would happen, but the fact that she's afraid for her words to appear here, even without attribution, reinforces my point that we could do a better job of being nice to people and listening to folks who rarely post here, just in case, to see if maybe my thoughts on this topic have any credibility.

 

It is a bit disturbing to me, and must be to her, to see that someone is indeed trying to track her down, whatever their reason, rather than take the quote at face value and debate its merit.

 

*sigh* They weren't trying to track HER down, they were trying to find the context from which you pulled that. Something about a credibility issue, to which you even referred to later in your post.

 

However, you claim to want to create a forum for everyone (utopia). IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. It is the inherent nature of interacting with people - there are differences in personalities, both for the reader and the poster. I cannot control how someone interprets what I write. I don't have access to their emotional filter. So, inevitably, I will offend someone, whether I intend to or not. There is nothing you or anyone else can do beyond teh current moderation. I can write a post that says "Have a nice day!", and someone who is having a BAD day will take it as sarcasm and be offended. In order for these forums to get better, people need thicker skin, not more sensitivity training.

 

I'm not even going to try to address the other points, which have all been laid in black and white by others.

[+fishingfools]

And that's why your title is fishingfool

Stop crying in your beer, it just waters it down.

 

It's really a very fun place to hang out, sometimes.

 

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I'm a lurker with a couple of finds, and I find these forums to be less than friendly. In my limited experience, most topics are just some variant of either micros suck, logging issues, or angst filled rants. I belong to several fishing forums, and they do not seem to have the aggressive attitude I see here.

 

Several people jumped all over me during my first visits here, and frankly it turned me off to this part of the sport.

 

This is just my opinion, and not meant as fuel to any current fires. Now I'm gonna put my fire suit on and await the hilarity that I'm sure will ensure

 

OK, out if curiosity I decided to see what kind of "jumping all over" was done to you. I checked your posts for your first seven months here. I didn't see any "jumping all over" at all. The worst thing I saw was a single, good natured ribbing about a typo filled post of yours and you made a good natured response to that about typing while drinking.

 

Or

And that's why your title is fishingfool tongue.gif

Stop crying in your beer, it just waters it down.ohmy.gif

 

Perfect example, the folks say this place is less than friendly and instead of considering whether that's true we dig up reasons to blame him, or call him names. Could responses like this be part of the problem, ya think?

[uperdooper]

And that's why your title is fishingfool

Stop crying in your beer, it just waters it down.

 

It's really a very fun place to hang out, sometimes.

 

BTW fishingfools is one of my closest geopals and a fellow charter member of Team CHB. We have kicked off each of the past three geoyears (early on Jan. 1) by going after a really nasty multi that has sat unfound for a while.

 

And that's why your title is fishingfool

Stop crying in your beer, it just waters it down.

 

It's really a very fun place to hang out, sometimes.

 

 

I'm a lurker with a couple of finds, and I find these forums to be less than friendly. In my limited experience, most topics are just some variant of either micros suck, logging issues, or angst filled rants. I belong to several fishing forums, and they do not seem to have the aggressive attitude I see here.

 

Several people jumped all over me during my first visits here, and frankly it turned me off to this part of the sport.

 

This is just my opinion, and not meant as fuel to any current fires. Now I'm gonna put my fire suit on and await the hilarity that I'm sure will ensure

 

OK, out if curiosity I decided to see what kind of "jumping all over" was done to you. I checked your posts for your first seven months here. I didn't see any "jumping all over" at all. The worst thing I saw was a single, good natured ribbing about a typo filled post of yours and you made a good natured response to that about typing while drinking.

 

Or

And that's why your title is fishingfool tongue.gif

Stop crying in your beer, it just waters it down.ohmy.gif

 

Perfect example, the folks say this place is less than friendly and instead of considering whether that's true we dig up reasons to blame him, or call him names. Could responses like this be part of the problem, ya think?

 

nope! don't think so in this case.

[+joefrog]

Wimseyguy stated earlier that Fishingfool was a pal of his -- kinda like how I heckle Bubba Cache, I suppose! I also had to do a double-take, but then saw the "he's my pal" comment.

[ju66l3r]

 

And that's why your title is fishingfool tongue.gif

Stop crying in your beer, it just waters it down.ohmy.gif

 

Perfect example, the folks say this place is less than friendly and instead of considering whether that's true we dig up reasons to blame him, or call him names. Could responses like this be part of the problem, ya think?

 

Is this a joke or a test, TAR?

 

You posted directly after fishingfools emoted a laugh at the post because he caught the humor in it and wasn't scared/offended/run off by the comment.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

..For those of you who say

I posted the relevant part and intentionally left out identifiers. Still, within thirty minutes of that post I got a phone call from the poster, worried that some of our more confrontational posters would track her down and send her nasty eamils because of what she'd said.

 

I assured her that I did not believe that would happen, but the fact that she's afraid for her words to appear here, even without attribution, reinforces my point that we could do a better job of being nice to people and listening to folks who rarely post here, just in case, to see if maybe my thoughts on this topic have any credibility.

 

It is a bit disturbing to me, and must be to her, to see that someone is indeed trying to track her down, whatever their reason, rather than take the quote at face value and debate its merit.

*sigh* They weren't trying to track HER down, they were trying to find the context from which you pulled that. Something about a credibility issue, to which you even referred to later in your post.

 

However, you claim to want to create a forum for everyone (utopia). IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. It is the inherent nature of interacting with people - there are differences in personalities, both for the reader and the poster. I cannot control how someone interprets what I write. I don't have access to their emotional filter. So, inevitably, I will offend someone, whether I intend to or not. There is nothing you or anyone else can do beyond teh current moderation. I can write a post that says "Have a nice day!", and someone who is having a BAD day will take it as sarcasm and be offended. In order for these forums to get better, people need thicker skin, not more sensitivity training.

 

I'm not even going to try to address the other points, which have all been laid in black and white by others.

NewEnglandN00b, thank you for saying this so clearly and so well! I agree with you, and thank you for saying it better than I could have! For some reason, some people are incredibly thin-skinnned in the online world, and you described it well.

[+fishingfools]

Me and Wimseyguy go way way way back, we cool!

 

This is the most fun I've had in the forums for awhile, I think my skin must be thickening.

 

 

Ya'll play nice now!

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

I'm a lurker with a couple of finds, and I find these forums to be less than friendly. In my limited experience, most topics are just some variant of either micros suck, logging issues, or angst filled rants. I belong to several fishing forums, and they do not seem to have the aggressive attitude I see here.

 

Several people jumped all over me during my first visits here, and frankly it turned me off to this part of the sport.

 

This is just my opinion, and not meant as fuel to any current fires. Now I'm gonna put my fire suit on and await the hilarity that I'm sure will ensure

 

OK, out if curiosity I decided to see what kind of "jumping all over" was done to you. I checked your posts for your first seven months here. I didn't see any "jumping all over" at all. The worst thing I saw was a single, good natured ribbing about a typo filled post of yours and you made a good natured response to that about typing while drinking.

 

Or

And that's why your title is fishingfool tongue.gif

Stop crying in your beer, it just waters it down.ohmy.gif

 

Perfect example, the folks say this place is less than friendly and instead of considering whether that's true we dig up reasons to blame him, or call him names. Could responses like this be part of the problem, ya think?

 

Oh for Petes sake, those two are friends and cache together, he says it right in his post. I have been on several different forums, including one aptly named the Flaming and Country Bashing Forum where anything goes and these Forums are by far the friendliest I've seen. If they don't suit your ow posting style that's a matter of personal preference, not a problem with the Forum or the other posters. When you speak face to face there are a billion subtle body language cues to pick up on, in here you lose that so it is easy to misconstrue someones attitude and intentions. Through experience I've learned it's best to assume the best, not the worst. You will be right far more often than wrong. In short, if you are offended it's your own fault.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

 

Oh for Petes sake, those two are friends and cache together, he says it right in his post. ...

 

Actually he edited that in, it was not there until he was called on it

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

Me and Wimseyguy go way way way back, we cool!

 

This is the most fun I've had in the forums for awhile, I think my skin must be thickening.

 

 

Ya'll play nice now!

 

Yes you are, glad to meet you.

I've found if I read more and post less I avoid alot of misunderstandings and disagreements, so backing on out again for now.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

 

Oh for Petes sake, those two are friends and cache together, he says it right in his post. ...

 

Actually he edited that in, it was not there until he was called on it

 

My bad then. The point remains though, if you read here looking for rudeness you will find it, even when it isn't there. Try looking for the good and you will find it as well, and be happier for it.

Go now young grasshopper, or old grasshopper, or middleaged grasshopper, and dwell on what you have learned here today.

[+briansnat]

I'm a lurker with a couple of finds, and I find these forums to be less than friendly. In my limited experience, most topics are just some variant of either micros suck, logging issues, or angst filled rants. I belong to several fishing forums, and they do not seem to have the aggressive attitude I see here.

 

Several people jumped all over me during my first visits here, and frankly it turned me off to this part of the sport.

 

This is just my opinion, and not meant as fuel to any current fires. Now I'm gonna put my fire suit on and await the hilarity that I'm sure will ensure

 

OK, out if curiosity I decided to see what kind of "jumping all over" was done to you. I checked your posts for your first seven months here. I didn't see any "jumping all over" at all. The worst thing I saw was a single, good natured ribbing about a typo filled post of yours and you made a good natured response to that about typing while drinking.

 

Or

And that's why your title is fishingfool tongue.gif

Stop crying in your beer, it just waters it down.ohmy.gif

 

Perfect example, the folks say this place is less than friendly and instead of considering whether that's true we dig up reasons to blame him, or call him names. Could responses like this be part of the problem, ya think?

 

Well someone comes here and makes a statement, which upon investigation proves untrue. The problem could in part come from the people who come here and make unfounded accusations. If this happens enough it becomes fact in people's minds. I've long claimed that I haven't seen the rampant nastiness here that so many others are claiming. One person claimed he was a victim and upon investigation his claim was hollow.

I've yet to see an example of this rampant nastiness. And by nastiness, I don't mean one flip, or curt comment, I mean this unwarranted piling on, partiularly on newbies, that I hear so much about.

Edited June 19, 2006 by briansnat

[ju66l3r]

I think it's also important to realize that people often respond to higher posts in a thread without reading every post, without realizing something was edited while they were writing, without knowing 3 other people had the same idea at the exact same time...

 

The result is well demonstrated above where I think 4-5 different people responded to TAR using whimseyguy's post as an example of a meanie post. Some people would say we all piled onto TAR, but it was a series of honest responses to a post that just happened to happen somewhat simultaneously. While it may look bad, it's just the way internet forums go when they're being read and responded to at such a fast rate like this forum is.

[+fishingfools]

 

 

Well someone comes here and makes a statement, which upon investigation proves untrue. The problem could in part come from the people who come here and make unfounded accusations. If this happens enough it becomes fact in people's minds. I've long claimed that I haven't seen the rampant nastiness here that so many others are claiming. One person claimed he was a victim and upon investigation his claim was hollow.

I've yet to see an example of this rampant nastiness. And by nastiness, I don't mean one flip, or curt comment, I mean this unwarranted piling on, partiularly on newbies, that I hear so much about.

 

well, I went back and looked myself, and your right, i think a got my timeing wrong. That wasnt really the point, my point was I think these forums are kinda harsh and unfreindly. Thats just my opinion. Im was just stating my point of view, which may vary from yours. I have read many of your posts, and agreed with most. You have more forums posts than I ever will, and are much more skilled here than I will ever be. Hope to meat you on the trail someday, we'll go have a beer over lunch.

[+Teach2Learn]

The forums belong to all cachers who follow the forum guidelines as a place for "public discussion of questions of common interest" (definition courtesy of Webster's).

 

Some may complain...

Some may disagree...

Some may tease...

...But only a "handful" (quoting Stephanie) are mean-spirited.

 

I may not always agree with you, AR, and I do believe you're sincerely trying to improve the situation, but I hope you'll try to not view disagreement as criticism, at least hurtful criticism. When you focus on that, others may see your view only as an agenda of trying to change the guidelines by using the convenient (for any opinion) "silent majority" to speak up when they agree with you.

 

I look forward to seeing you at the Midwest Geobash if you're going and I get the opportunity to attend. If I do, I promise not to even mention the DRR, just enjoy the cachin' stories.

[ju66l3r]

Hope to meat you on the trail someday, we'll go have a beer over lunch.

(emphasis mine)

 

Look out, Brian!!

 

Oh, wait, this is the beer guy, right, I remember reading about his typos...

[+briansnat]

I have read many of your posts, and agreed with most

 

Only most?

 

Hope to meat you on the trail someday, we'll go have a beer over lunch.

 

Sounds good to me!

[+Stunod]

Oh for Petes sake, those two are friends and cache together, he says it right in his post. ...

 

Actually he edited that in, it was not there until he was called on it

 

According to the time-stamps, he edited it at 3:08...your post was at 3:28

[Trinity's Crew]

. Hope to meat you on the trail someday

Are you hoping to meet him on the trail or are you planning to chop him into little pieces and feed him to the carnivores?

[+fishingfools]

sorry about the meat thing, my bad! No wonder no one plays scrabble with me

[+sbell111]

Actually, the other way might work, also.

[+Metaphor]

Sheesh! I go caching for one day, and the forums go all to heck. (found six, including two multis, dnf'd one, walked away from three because they weren't my cup of joe when I saw where I would be looking. Drove 187 miles@$2.75/gallon for an average of 23.5 mpg in a 1996 6 cylinder 2 wheel drive Ford Explorer with 203, 500 miles on it... )

 

One person's opinion (mine): The forums are not filled with mean and nasty people. Mean and nasty people are pretty quickly put down by the regular posters. There are scads of topics that are not controversial, but they don't get the airplay the more scandulous ones do. Controversy happens and is the stuff of good forum debate. Debate means that a difference of opinion is necessary.

 

The "Peaceable Kingdom" would be a dull place, if a lion didn't eat a sheep once in a while, but if all the lion did was eat all the sheep, the Kingdom would cease to be a Kingdom. Bad lions in the Forum Kingdom deserve to be beaten up by the flock of sheep, when necessary. But some sheep need to develop thicker pelts, and realize that they are lying next to lions.

 

I like the forums just the way they are.

[+wimseyguy]

I'm a lurker with a couple of finds, and I find these forums to be less than friendly. In my limited experience, most topics are just some variant of either micros suck, logging issues, or angst filled rants. I belong to several fishing forums, and they do not seem to have the aggressive attitude I see here.

 

Several people jumped all over me during my first visits here, and frankly it turned me off to this part of the sport.

 

This is just my opinion, and not meant as fuel to any current fires. Now I'm gonna put my fire suit on and await the hilarity that I'm sure will ensure

 

OK, out if curiosity I decided to see what kind of "jumping all over" was done to you. I checked your posts for your first seven months here. I didn't see any "jumping all over" at all. The worst thing I saw was a single, good natured ribbing about a typo filled post of yours and you made a good natured response to that about typing while drinking.

 

Or

And that's why your title is fishingfool tongue.gif

Stop crying in your beer, it just waters it down.ohmy.gif

 

Perfect example, the folks say this place is less than friendly and instead of considering whether that's true we dig up reasons to blame him, or call him names. Could responses like this be part of the problem, ya think?

 

Yes, I did edit my post, partly because I realized that some of you might not know our history, and partly on purpose just to prove a point. I wanted to see if anyone would jump on me for that comment. To borrow a fishing phrase-I hooked me a big one-hook line and sinker!

 

You know they say the most important thing in comedy is

 

 

 

 

 

TIMING!!

[+New England n00b]

..For those of you who say

I posted the relevant part and intentionally left out identifiers. Still, within thirty minutes of that post I got a phone call from the poster, worried that some of our more confrontational posters would track her down and send her nasty eamils because of what she'd said.

 

I assured her that I did not believe that would happen, but the fact that she's afraid for her words to appear here, even without attribution, reinforces my point that we could do a better job of being nice to people and listening to folks who rarely post here, just in case, to see if maybe my thoughts on this topic have any credibility.

 

It is a bit disturbing to me, and must be to her, to see that someone is indeed trying to track her down, whatever their reason, rather than take the quote at face value and debate its merit.

*sigh* They weren't trying to track HER down, they were trying to find the context from which you pulled that. Something about a credibility issue, to which you even referred to later in your post.

 

However, you claim to want to create a forum for everyone (utopia). IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. It is the inherent nature of interacting with people - there are differences in personalities, both for the reader and the poster. I cannot control how someone interprets what I write. I don't have access to their emotional filter. So, inevitably, I will offend someone, whether I intend to or not. There is nothing you or anyone else can do beyond teh current moderation. I can write a post that says "Have a nice day!", and someone who is having a BAD day will take it as sarcasm and be offended. In order for these forums to get better, people need thicker skin, not more sensitivity training.

 

I'm not even going to try to address the other points, which have all been laid in black and white by others.

NewEnglandN00b, thank you for saying this so clearly and so well! I agree with you, and thank you for saying it better than I could have! For some reason, some people are incredibly thin-skinnned in the online world, and you described it well.

SHUT UP YOU JERK!