An Interesting Observation About Geocaching

[ju66l3r]

I've been back on the site regularly for about a week or so now.

 

The latest forum threads seem to start telling a significant difference from what I saw a year ago when I last haunted the forums relentlessly. There are quite a few "cheater", "new numbers", "omg", "what do i do abou this" kind of threads recently. I know some of them are directly related to the significant influx of what I'll dub the Hungry Hungry Hippo (HHH) effect from GW4. But honestly, even that is an interesting corollary to the other more common themes coming from other geographic areas.

 

It seems that as the number of geocaches continues to expand at a seriously rapid rate, finders (particularly those in less rural areas) are frequently deluged with more than they know what to do with. They start consuming geocache experiences at such an astounding rate that they're quickly able to pass by the kinds of numbers we're used to seeing even a year ago within their first months playing with a GPSr. The result of this quick binge of caching for the user is that it completely depersonalizes the other end of the hunt...the hide and the hider. It seems people start to treat any geocache as just any geocache. The person that hid the geocache isn't given any consideration throughout the entire process from the finder's perspective because there are so many to do that they see it more as offerings from the database and just another cache to find.

 

This is not to say that every new person partakes of the activity in this way. This isn't even a particularly new conclusion. But it is something that's degraded quite a bit from even a "TNLNSL" to "i saw where it probably is located" and "sign the logbook, it's in my backpocket right now" (that's even *further* downhill to the point that the hider isn't respecting their own hide).

 

It would appear that you would only treat the game in this manner if you felt little affection for each geocache as an interesting experience and each hider as a person worth thanking for the adventure or even just thanking for the smilie if that's what you play for. This kind of disconnect from the other half of the game reminds me of the way some people also treat fast-food employees and other off-ramp business employees. The establishments are so ubiquitous that the locations blur together and the people themselves aren't seen as individuals; if you offend one of them, you can always go very nearby to somewhere else (and be offensive).

 

Unfortunately, I'm not offering solutions. I am only offering what I can glean to be the source of this downhill path with which the community seems to be struggling with greater frequency.

[+nfa]

360 caches within 50 miles...and you?

[+ReadyOrNot]

Unfortunately, I'm not offering solutions. I am only offering what I can glean to be the source of this downhill path with which the community seems to be struggling with greater frequency.

 

I think there is a serious "Quality of Cache" issue. I don't think this will be resolved by rule changes, but by changing the attitudes that cause people to place garbage caches. As Jeremy calls it, "Seperating the wheat from the chaff".. There would be much less speculation in the forums if TPTB would give us an idea of what they are thinking and what ideas they are throwing around to deal with this issue.

[ju66l3r]

360 caches within 50 miles...and you?

 

A little over 2400. Half of my 50 mile circle is ocean. I hope you weren't suggesting that I was only using local experiences to make my observations. I also hope you weren't trying to say that I wasn't considering the more rural cachers (I know you're in the NY Adirondacks and I specifically said that this was an observation particular to less rural locations). I'm sure for you and others in a similar situation, each new find/hide is an experience and you're not just going to be able to drive to the next patch of green and bag another one without consideration of the hider.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I've been back on the site regularly for about a week or so now.

 

The latest forum threads seem to start telling a significant difference from what I saw a year ago when I last haunted the forums relentlessly. There are quite a few "cheater", "new numbers", "omg", "what do i do abou this" kind of threads recently. I know some of them are directly related to the significant influx of what I'll dub the Hungry Hungry Hippo (HHH) effect from GW4. But honestly, even that is an interesting corollary to the other more common themes coming from other geographic areas.

 

It seems that as the number of geocaches continues to expand at a seriously rapid rate, finders (particularly those in less rural areas) are frequently deluged with more than they know what to do with. They start consuming geocache experiences at such an astounding rate that they're quickly able to pass by the kinds of numbers we're used to seeing even a year ago within their first months playing with a GPSr. The result of this quick binge of caching for the user is that it completely depersonalizes the other end of the hunt...the hide and the hider. It seems people start to treat any geocache as just any geocache. The person that hid the geocache isn't given any consideration throughout the entire process from the finder's perspective because there are so many to do that they see it more as offerings from the database and just another cache to find.

 

This is not to say that every new person partakes of the activity in this way. This isn't even a particularly new conclusion. But it is something that's degraded quite a bit from even a "TNLNSL" to "i saw where it probably is located" and "sign the logbook, it's in my backpocket right now" (that's even *further* downhill to the point that the hider isn't respecting their own hide).

 

It would appear that you would only treat the game in this manner if you felt little affection for each geocache as an interesting experience and each hider as a person worth thanking for the adventure or even just thanking for the smilie if that's what you play for. This kind of disconnect from the other half of the game reminds me of the way some people also treat fast-food employees and other off-ramp business employees. The establishments are so ubiquitous that the locations blur together and the people themselves aren't seen as individuals; if you offend one of them, you can always go very nearby to somewhere else (and be offensive).

 

Unfortunately, I'm not offering solutions. I am only offering what I can glean to be the source of this downhill path with which the community seems to be struggling with greater frequency.

You have, I think, hit upon something interesting! While I do not agree that geocaching is necessarily on a downward path, I do believe that the rapid growth of the sport/game has perhaps led to a lessening of gratitude and appreciation for the basics of the sport. For me, this has been most obvious in the recent proliferation of threads -- as well as log entries (finds, DNFs and notes) for caches -- wherein cachers actually complain about encountering bears, ticks, snakes, spiders, insects and even mud and dirt on their way to find a cache, as if these things were somehow unexpected or unnatural, or a perversion of nature. Wow!

 

Now, let me say here that my wife grew up in Australia, and has done a lot of hiking and adventuring throughout her life, and I have been a lifelong hiker, rock climber, spelunker, SCUBA diver, cave diver and explorer; I spent my childhood exploring forests, ponds and streams, and often came home at the end of the day covered with mud, ticks and leeches. This latest phenomenon (i.e., the complaints about encountering ticks, snakes, spiders, bears, mud, dirt, trash, etc.) which is emergent in the geo world has caught both my wife and me by total surprise, and, in fact, shocked us, and we finally realized that the sport is now comprised more and more largely of people who had never spent much, if any, time outdoors in their life prior to discovering geocaching, and who perhaps had never previously gotten much exercise either. In other words, it appears strongly that the discovery of geocaching is now leading many previously sedentary people who had never spent time in the outdoors, and who had perhaps never even exercised, to go outside and to hike and walk and even enter forests and woods.

 

I can, I believe, even go a step further, and speculate that many of these previously-inactive non-outdoorsy people have largely been accustomed to passive activities and passive forms of entertainment, such as playing video games, waching TV, and watching movies. Suddenly, a goody number of these people who had grown accustomed to passive entertainment are now venturing outdoors to seek geocaches. This can undestandably lead to some surprises for these newcomers to the outdoors. Now, all this news about increased levels of exercise for people who had previously never ventured outdoors is likely very heartening to public health educators, public health specialists, longevity experts and physical fitness promoters, as that has long been their goal for the more underactive members of the population, and it is also good news for many managers of state parks, whose major challenges had often been under-utilization of trails and backwoods areas in their parks, and I am sure that many people are becoming healthier as a result of their higher levels of exercise. However, I must admit that this same demographic trend -- desirable as it may be -- is massively changing the face of geocaching, particularly as we are hearing more and more whines (please note that I am not using this term pejoratively, but rather simply as the most appropriate descriptive; it is not my intent to offend anyone) and complaints about everyday aspects of nature such as ticks, sunlight, snakes, bears, rocks, creeks, mud, water, spiders and insects, all of which I have always taken for granted, and about which I would never think of complaining.

 

Anyway, I wonder if a good part what you have been witnessing, and some of what you trying to describe, particuarly the lack of appreciation, the complaining, the "disconnect", and the sense of rushing, is simply due to the rapidly-changing demographics of this sport, as people who had been accustomed to passive entertainment become more active and start to seek geocaches.

[+Mystery Ink]

We try to say something about each cache we find even though we are in a very very cache Populated area. We do have our number of people in our area who copy and paste the same thing into every cache they find that day. But it's nice when a cacher in our area comes up to you and says they enjoy reading your logs.

[+nfa]

I wasn't assuming anything about your statement or motives in making it, I simply sequed to thinking about cache density, and my local area has 360 caches (50 or so of them mine) in the 50 mile circle surrounding my backyard.

 

I know that many areas are filled with so many caches that it is hard to know how and where to begin (especially without PQs I would think). I don't have a clue how this can be resolved, except for draconian measures that will anger tons of people, such as archiving (or adopting out) hides when the owner has not logged in for 6 months or more.

 

Jamie - NFA

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I get you, Ju66ler, but reiterate what I mentioned in another thread - these forums, in my experience, do not reflect the game very well.

 

There is a definite bias here and some serious control issues on almost any topic that I don't see in the field.

 

I am an event junkie, in the game more for the people than the cache, and can tell you that my experience with geocachers is almost diametrically opposed to what I read here.

 

That means, to me, that the game is in far better shape and enjoyed far more than is reflected here.

 

I take great encouragement from that!

 

Ed

[+nfa]

I like geocaching...my wife asked me what I want for Father's Day, and I told her that honestly, I would like to get a chance to find (and hide) a couple of geocaches either Saturday or Sunday...by myself, without having to mow the lawn first.

 

She's giving me my wish!!!

 

Have a great weekend everyone!

 

Jamie - NFA

[ju66l3r]

I get you, Ju66ler, but reiterate what I mentioned in another thread - these forums, in my experience, do not reflect the game very well.

 

There is a definite bias here and some serious control issues on almost any topic that I don't see in the field.

 

I am an event junkie, in the game more for the people than the cache, and can tell you that my experience with geocachers is almost diametrically opposed to what I read here.

 

That means, to me, that the game is in far better shape and enjoyed far more than is reflected here.

 

I take great encouragement from that!

 

I think you're seeing two biases in the other direction as well though. First, I doubt many "I know it was there, I'm counting this as a find" cachers go to events. Second, in person, people are almost always far more cordial than they are in a cache log/forum topic because our brains are wired to not create a fight through harsh rhetoric in a community setting for fear of being outcast as a brute...but are also wired to fight for anything we want/believe so when given the shelter of the internet people tend to let loose with what they really had to say (and even extend efforts further than they may really even care about a topic because of being challenged on it).

 

My guess is that for every "cheater/I can't believe this" thread, there are 10 other instances of this same behavior that aren't brought up because of the observation that a large percentage of the players don't visit the forums to relate their own experiences. It's not like we're overrun with horrific destructions of the game. I don't mean to sound any alarm horns that loud, but we are in witness to a growing trend that isn't a factor when people didn't have the means to just shrug off the hide/hider because there were 400 more within a few miles that they could go do.

[Hillbilly-Rockstar]

Quality always beats quanity.

 

And I have noticed a lot more "cheater" threads.

[+nfa]

I guess my thinking is that I don't much care how other people geocache...

 

I like finding caches...with PQs, I can filter out the types I don't like, and with common sense I can avoid the areas that tend to have crappy caches (as I define crappy)...

 

I enjoy hiding caches, and people generally leave nice logs when they find mine, and don't seem to cheat much (as I define cheating)...

 

I don't see what goes on in these forums as very related to what goes on in the woods where I tend to geocache, and certainly don't think that my posting about people not playing or logging or hiding the way that I want them to will change anyone's mind about geocaching, so I try not to let it bother me much (although it's fun to see others shouting at the rain)...

 

Jamie - NFA

[Dan&Chris]

I've been back on the site regularly for about a week or so now.

 

The latest forum threads seem to start telling a significant difference from what I saw a year ago when I last haunted the forums relentlessly. There are quite a few "cheater", "new numbers", "omg", "what do i do abou this" kind of threads recently. I know some of them are directly related to the significant influx of what I'll dub the Hungry Hungry Hippo (HHH) effect from GW4. But honestly, even that is an interesting corollary to the other more common themes coming from other geographic areas.

 

It seems that as the number of geocaches continues to expand at a seriously rapid rate, finders (particularly those in less rural areas) are frequently deluged with more than they know what to do with. They start consuming geocache experiences at such an astounding rate that they're quickly able to pass by the kinds of numbers we're used to seeing even a year ago within their first months playing with a GPSr. The result of this quick binge of caching for the user is that it completely depersonalizes the other end of the hunt...the hide and the hider. It seems people start to treat any geocache as just any geocache. The person that hid the geocache isn't given any consideration throughout the entire process from the finder's perspective because there are so many to do that they see it more as offerings from the database and just another cache to find.

 

This is not to say that every new person partakes of the activity in this way. This isn't even a particularly new conclusion. But it is something that's degraded quite a bit from even a "TNLNSL" to "i saw where it probably is located" and "sign the logbook, it's in my backpocket right now" (that's even *further* downhill to the point that the hider isn't respecting their own hide).

 

It would appear that you would only treat the game in this manner if you felt little affection for each geocache as an interesting experience and each hider as a person worth thanking for the adventure or even just thanking for the smilie if that's what you play for. This kind of disconnect from the other half of the game reminds me of the way some people also treat fast-food employees and other off-ramp business employees. The establishments are so ubiquitous that the locations blur together and the people themselves aren't seen as individuals; if you offend one of them, you can always go very nearby to somewhere else (and be offensive).

 

Unfortunately, I'm not offering solutions. I am only offering what I can glean to be the source of this downhill path with which the community seems to be struggling with greater frequency.

You have, I think, hit upon something interesting! While I do not agree that geocaching is necessarily on a downward path, I do believe that the rapid growth of the sport/game has perhaps led to a lessening of gratitude and appreciation for the basics of the sport. For me, this has been most obvious in the recent proliferation of threads -- as well as log entries (finds, DNFs and notes) for caches -- wherein cachers actually complain about encountering bears, ticks, snakes, spiders, insects and even mud and dirt on their way to find a cache, as if these things were somehow unexpected or unnatural, or a perversion of nature. Wow!

 

Now, let me say here that my wife grew up in Australia, and has done a lot of hiking and adventuring throughout her life, and I have been a lifelong hiker, rock climber, spelunker, SCUBA diver, cave diver and explorer; I spent my childhood exploring forests, ponds and streams, and often came home at the end of the day covered with mud, ticks and leeches. This latest phenomenon (i.e., the complaints about encountering ticks, snakes, spiders, bears, mud, dirt, trash, etc.) which is emergent in the geo world has caught both my wife and me by total surprise, and, in fact, shocked us, and we finally realized that the sport is now comprised more and more largely of people who had never spent much, if any, time outdoors in their life prior to discovering geocaching, and who perhaps had never previously gotten much exercise either. In other words, it appears strongly that the discovery of geocaching is now leading many previously sedentary people who had never spent time in the outdoors, and who had perhaps never even exercised, to go outside and to hike and walk and even enter forests and woods.

 

I can, I believe, even go a step further, and speculate that many of these previously-inactive non-outdoorsy people have largely been accustomed to passive activities and passive forms of entertainment, such as playing video games, waching TV, and watching movies. Suddenly, a goody number of these people who had grown accustomed to passive entertainment are now venturing outdoors to seek geocaches. This can undestandably lead to some surprises for these newcomers to the outdoors. Now, all this news about increased levels of exercise for people who had previously never ventured outdoors is likely very heartening to public health educators, public health specialists, longevity experts and physical fitness promoters, as that has long been their goal for the more underactive members of the population, and it is also good news for many managers of state parks, whose major challenges had often been under-utilization of trails and backwoods areas in their parks, and I am sure that many people are becoming healthier as a result of their higher levels of exercise. However, I must admit that this same demographic trend -- desirable as it may be -- is massively changing the face of geocaching, particularly as we are hearing more and more whines (please note that I am not using this term pejoratively, but rather simply as the most appropriate descriptive; it is not my intent to offend anyone) and complaints about everyday aspects of nature such as ticks, sunlight, snakes, bears, rocks, creeks, mud, water, spiders and insects, all of which I have always taken for granted, and about which I would never think of complaining.

 

Anyway, I wonder if a good part what you have been witnessing, and some of what you trying to describe, particuarly the lack of appreciation, the complaining, the "disconnect", and the sense of rushing, is simply due to the rapidly-changing demographics of this sport, as people who had been accustomed to passive entertainment become more active and start to seek geocaches.

 

 

You are spot on Vinny, I am a previous member of the sedentary club. Watching TV, playing on the computer, VG's etc. used to be my main form of entertainment. I only discovered geocaching because there was a link on google. However, as a noob I do not want to be lumped into a category "ungrateful." My husband and I are thoroughly enjoying this hobby, and all the hard work that goes along with it. We very much appreciate all of the great spots we are finding due to the hides and the hider. There are so many cool parks and trails near us that we never would have found if not for geocache.com. I am not trying to speak for anyone but myself-but please don't confuse my suprise over nature as being a complaint. It's more of a discovery (see sentence one! ) The biggest spider I'm used to encountering are the ones that find their way into my bathtub! Go ahead and laugh, I know my dad would be if he were reading this. He took me camping to a very rustic location once when I was a young teen. It was at the pinnacle of my teenage vanity, and I swear I was traumatized by the lack of shower and all of the bugs. Anyways, I have not returned to the woods until now, 20 yrs later. There was a point to this... Oh, if I am being an a-hole I humbly apologize to all the veteran geocachers! Bear with us and have a sense of humor, please enjoy our photos-even if you have seen them all before!

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."

- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

Edited June 16, 2006 by Dan&Chris

[+thedeadpirate]

I think the posts in this thread may finally be getting to the heart of some of the issues being discussed lately. It is very possible that in cache rich areas, some cachers, especially newer ones, have so much to choose from that they don't realize that caching is really about community. When you jump head first into finding caches, but don't take the time to get to know the folks that placed the caches, you do lose a great part of what makes caching fun (for me at least).

 

To be honest, I didn't really "get it" until we began placing my own caches. We began to get so many personal emails from cachers who enjoyed our caches that we were spurred on to put more out. Not for numbers, but because we really wanted others to take pleasure in something we offered.

 

Since then, I have been much more cognizant of other hiders. We joined a local caching group and starting getting into the community side a lot more. To be honest, caching took on a whole new meaning.

 

I think Vinnie makes an excellent point about the influx of people who prior to finding caching were mostly sedimentary. You probably have a good number of cachers now that previously had little to no experience with the bears, snakes, bugs, etc. When they first come in contact with that aspect, it may be the first time that they really see the geo part of geocaching.

 

I think (hope) that the more mature a cacher gets, the more they appreciate the work that most hiders put forth to bring the caches to their peers.

[+VegasCacheHounds]

You have, I think, hit upon something interesting! While I do not agree that geocaching is necessarily on a downward path, I do believe that the rapid growth of the sport/game has perhaps led to a lessening of gratitude and appreciation for the basics of the sport. For me, this has been most obvious in the recent proliferation of threads -- as well as log entries (finds, DNFs and notes) for caches -- wherein cachers actually complain about encountering bears, ticks, snakes, spiders, insects and even mud and dirt on their way to find a cache, as if these things were somehow unexpected or unnatural, or a perversion of nature. Wow!

 

 

Well, I've logged DNFs or notes about aborting a cache hunt due to Poison Ivy, and have had fears about ticks, but that was back when I first moved here to the Dallas area. Now, after caching for a bit over a year in this area, I've learned how to spot PI and take bugspray with me, but I grew up out in the desert, so all of my outdoors experience didn't do me much good here

[+VegasCacheHounds]

I get you, Ju66ler, but reiterate what I mentioned in another thread - these forums, in my experience, do not reflect the game very well.

 

There is a definite bias here and some serious control issues on almost any topic that I don't see in the field.

 

I am an event junkie, in the game more for the people than the cache, and can tell you that my experience with geocachers is almost diametrically opposed to what I read here.

 

That means, to me, that the game is in far better shape and enjoyed far more than is reflected here.

 

I take great encouragement from that!

 

Ed

 

I will say that I do agree with the statement that the majority of caching angst is solely related to the forums, but I alos agree with part of what the OP says. I've noticed, not only in others logs but my own, that the logs left on caches are no longer the nice tale of the cache hunt that they used to be. I blame this largely on what some have called Micro Spew.

 

The reason in my head isn't totoally the lack of a memorable experience with some of these caches, but also the lack of logbook space. I used to sit down and write about my cAche hunt in the logbook, then read through some of the others. Now, on the rare occation that I find a cache large enough to have a real logbook in it, I am so used to writing the date and VCH that I forget that I have the room to write more, and looking thorugh the other entries it looks like this has effected others too. That also seems to bleed over into my online logs.

 

Of course, I could be wrong.

[+StarBrand]

I sort of agree - I was recently surprised to see a local cacher reach the 200 found mark after only 5 months of caching. It took me 3 years to reach that mark and an awful lot of miles on the Jeep. They have hit that mark within 200 miles of thier home. Of course 50 of thier finds are my hides which is also interesting. Within 50 miles of my house there are only 90 or so caches. Within 100 miles - 190.

 

I have noted that many more logs these days are simple 1 or 2 liners. Not bad but different.

[+The Leprechauns]

Well, I've logged DNFs or notes about aborting a cache hunt due to Poison Ivy, and have had fears about ticks, but that was back when I first moved here to the Dallas area. Now, after caching for a bit over a year in this area, I've learned how to spot PI and take bugspray with me, but I grew up out in the desert, so all of my outdoors experience didn't do me much good here

And two of my most severe physical beatings came in desert canyon conditions, in California and Arizona, whereas I am totally comfortable in the Pennsylvania woods with their ticks, snakes, bears and other "hazards."

 

I think that Vinny's observation about how geocaching motivates previously sedentary people to get outdoors is quite astute. This was confirmed by Dan&Chris's post. It is also one of the fundamental beliefs of the folks at Groundspeak. All the search tools, pocket queries and other site developments are designed to get people OUT from behind their computers and into the outdoors. As more and more people do that, we get the somewhat impersonal group mentality that ju66l3r described very well in his OP.

 

Yes, it is different than it was when I discovered the game four years ago. But I think the game is better off for having attracted so many people like Dan&Chris. And they are better off too. If geocaching attracts more of a cross-section of society, we will see more of society reflected in geocaching. Fortunately the number of good people who write nice logs and hide nice caches continues to increase as part of that growth.

[+Ambrosia]

Well, I've logged DNFs or notes about aborting a cache hunt due to Poison Ivy, and have had fears about ticks, but that was back when I first moved here to the Dallas area. Now, after caching for a bit over a year in this area, I've learned how to spot PI and take bugspray with me, but I grew up out in the desert, so all of my outdoors experience didn't do me much good here

And two of my most severe physical beatings came in desert canyon conditions, in California and Arizona, whereas I am totally comfortable in the Pennsylvania woods with their ticks, snakes, bears and other "hazards."

 

I think that Vinny's observation about how geocaching motivates previously sedentary people to get outdoors is quite astute. This was confirmed by Dan&Chris's post. It is also one of the fundamental beliefs of the folks at Groundspeak. All the search tools, pocket queries and other site developments are designed to get people OUT from behind their computers and into the outdoors. As more and more people do that, we get the somewhat impersonal group mentality that ju66l3r described very well in his OP.

 

Yes, it is different than it was when I discovered the game four years ago. But I think the game is better off for having attracted so many people like Dan&Chris. And they are better off too. If geocaching attracts more of a cross-section of society, we will see more of society reflected in geocaching. Fortunately the number of good people who write nice logs and hide nice caches continues to increase as part of that growth.

If it weren't for geocaching, I would almost never go outside lately. Geocaching is one of the things that keeps me going.

[+Team Cotati]

I like geocaching...my wife asked me what I want for Father's Day, and I told her that honestly, I would like to get a chance to find (and hide) a couple of geocaches either Saturday or Sunday...by myself, without having to mow the lawn first.

 

She's giving me my wish!!!

 

Have a great weekend everyone!

 

Jamie - NFA

 

But you didn't say that SHE was going to mow the lawn for you.

[+Team Cotati]

I get you, Ju66ler, but reiterate what I mentioned in another thread - these forums, in my experience, do not reflect the game very well.

 

There is a definite bias here and some serious control issues on almost any topic that I don't see in the field.

 

I am an event junkie, in the game more for the people than the cache, and can tell you that my experience with geocachers is almost diametrically opposed to what I read here.

 

That means, to me, that the game is in far better shape and enjoyed far more than is reflected here.

 

I take great encouragement from that!

 

Ed

 

There can be little doubt wrt your conclusions. The experiences that you site match mine as well. Cache on Garth!!

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Of course, I could be wrong.

 

I know that I have quit writing long logs - I was at one time quite well known for entertaining online logs in my area, and several folks have commented over my no longer doing it this last year or so.

 

Part of it is time constraint, but part of it is that caching became 'old hat', comfortable, familiar and not all that remarkable after a while.

 

I love to read the logs folks leave on my caches, but had gotten to the point where I did cut and paste, then got to TNLNSL, then quit logging altogether.

 

Still love the game, still love to cache, just don't have much to say about it unless I run across something really special, which frankly I haven't in a while.

 

Dunno what all that means, just an observation!

[+VegasCacheHounds]

Well, I've logged DNFs or notes about aborting a cache hunt due to Poison Ivy, and have had fears about ticks, but that was back when I first moved here to the Dallas area. Now, after caching for a bit over a year in this area, I've learned how to spot PI and take bugspray with me, but I grew up out in the desert, so all of my outdoors experience didn't do me much good here

And two of my most severe physical beatings came in desert canyon conditions, in California and Arizona, whereas I am totally comfortable in the Pennsylvania woods with their ticks, snakes, bears and other "hazards."

 

I think that Vinny's observation about how geocaching motivates previously sedentary people to get outdoors is quite astute. This was confirmed by Dan&Chris's post. It is also one of the fundamental beliefs of the folks at Groundspeak. All the search tools, pocket queries and other site developments are designed to get people OUT from behind their computers and into the outdoors. As more and more people do that, we get the somewhat impersonal group mentality that ju66l3r described very well in his OP.

 

Yes, it is different than it was when I discovered the game four years ago. But I think the game is better off for having attracted so many people like Dan&Chris. And they are better off too. If geocaching attracts more of a cross-section of society, we will see more of society reflected in geocaching. Fortunately the number of good people who write nice logs and hide nice caches continues to increase as part of that growth.

 

Oh, I knew what Vinnie's point was, just adding a funny personal spin to it. Gotta have Topic Drift, ya know.

[+VegasCacheHounds]

Of course, I could be wrong.

 

I know that I have quit writing long logs - I was at one time quite well known for entertaining online logs in my area, and several folks have commented over my no longer doing it this last year or so.

 

Part of it is time constraint, but part of it is that caching became 'old hat', comfortable, familiar and not all that remarkable after a while.

 

I love to read the logs folks leave on my caches, but had gotten to the point where I did cut and paste, then got to TNLNSL, then quit logging altogether.

 

Still love the game, still love to cache, just don't have much to say about it unless I run across something really special, which frankly I haven't in a while.

 

Dunno what all that means, just an observation!

 

You know, thats something else that has came to mind. The first time I did something while caching, it was worth writing about. The tenth time, not so much. I remember how novel and cool it was the first time I found out that the skirt on a lamppost came up and that someone hid a cache underneath. Now, its cliche.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

You are spot on Vinnie, I am a previous member of the sedentary club. Watching TV, playing on the computer, VG's etc. used to be my main form of entertainment. I only discovered geocaching because there was a link on google. However, as a noob I do not want to be lumped into a category "ungrateful." My husband and I are thoroughly enjoying this hobby, and all the hard work that goes along with it. We very much appreciate all of the great spots we are finding due to the hides and the hider. There are so many cool parks and trails near us that we never would have found if not for geocache.com. I am not trying to speak for anyone but myself-but please don't confuse my suprise over nature as being a complaint. It's more of a discovery (see sentence one! ) The biggest spider I'm used to encountering are the ones that find their way into my bathtub! Go ahead and laugh, I know my dad would be if he were reading this. He took me camping to a very rustic location once when I was a young teen. It was at the pinnacle of my teenage vanity, and I swear I was traumatized by the lack of shower and all of the bugs. Anyways, I have not returned to the woods until now, 20 yrs later. There was a point to this... Oh, if I am being an a-hole I humbly apologize to all the veteran geocachers! Bear with us and have a sense of humor, please enjoy our photos-even if you have seen them all before! ...

Thanks for sharing this, and thank you for the reminder that not all of the newcomers to the outdoors are ungrateful or unappreciative! And, even for the ones who may be, I suspect that my original post helps us to get some perspective on the "how" and the "why" thereof! Thanks for your perspective!

[+Ambrosia]

Of course, I could be wrong.

 

I know that I have quit writing long logs - I was at one time quite well known for entertaining online logs in my area, and several folks have commented over my no longer doing it this last year or so.

 

Part of it is time constraint, but part of it is that caching became 'old hat', comfortable, familiar and not all that remarkable after a while.

 

I love to read the logs folks leave on my caches, but had gotten to the point where I did cut and paste, then got to TNLNSL, then quit logging altogether.

 

Still love the game, still love to cache, just don't have much to say about it unless I run across something really special, which frankly I haven't in a while.

 

Dunno what all that means, just an observation!

 

You know, thats something else that has came to mind. The first time I did something while caching, it was worth writing about. The tenth time, not so much. I remember how novel and cool it was the first time I found out that the skirt on a lamppost came up and that someone hid a cache underneath. Now, its cliche.

Ah, but I still get so much joy and wonder out of caching.

 

It's like being in love. At first, everything is nice and new a shiny. Everything seems wonderful! Then over the years a comfort sets in, but it's a deeper more fulfilling love. And quite often you can be suprised and reminded of just how special and exciting that love is. And you wouldn't give it up for anything, because it's the best in the whole world.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Oh, I knew what Vinnie's point was, just adding a funny personal spin to it. Gotta have Topic Drift, ya know.

Oh... well... My observation i... I mean... Oh...

 

Gosh darn it, VegasCacheHounds, I keep trying to respond coherently to your post above, but I have become obsessed with that barbarian superhero-type woman posing in the bikini and cape in your avatar image. You know, this one:

 

sigh! It's hopeless. . . just cannot focus. . . too distracted. . . Can I meet her?

 

moan!

 

 

[+VegasCacheHounds]

Oh, I knew what Vinnie's point was, just adding a funny personal spin to it. Gotta have Topic Drift, ya know.

Oh... well... My observation i... I mean... Oh...

 

Gosh darn it, VegasCacheHounds, I keep trying to respond coherently to your post above, but I have become obsessed with that barbarian superhero-type woman posing in the bikini and cape in your avatar image. You know, this one:

 

sigh! It's hopeless. . . just cannot focus. . . too distracted. . . Can I meet her?

 

moan!

 

 

 

 

Uh, Vinnie, you have seen Return of the Jedi, right? Look a bit closer at that pic.....

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Oh, I knew what Vinnie's point was, just adding a funny personal spin to it. Gotta have Topic Drift, ya know.

Oh... well... My observation i... I mean... Oh...

 

Gosh darn it, VegasCacheHounds, I keep trying to respond coherently to your post above, but I have become obsessed with that barbarian superhero-type woman posing in the bikini and cape in your avatar image. You know, this one:

 

sigh! It's hopeless. . . just cannot focus. . . too distracted. . . Can I meet her?

 

moan!

 

 

Uh, Vinnie, you have seen Return of the Jedi, right? Look a bit closer at that pic.....

No, never heard of it! Is it a movie? Is it about hottie women in barbarian outfits! Where can I find a copy? Oh, and what is that dark shadow behind her?

[+VegasCacheHounds]

Oh, I knew what Vinnie's point was, just adding a funny personal spin to it. Gotta have Topic Drift, ya know.

Oh... well... My observation i... I mean... Oh...

 

Gosh darn it, VegasCacheHounds, I keep trying to respond coherently to your post above, but I have become obsessed with that barbarian superhero-type woman posing in the bikini and cape in your avatar image. You know, this one:

 

sigh! It's hopeless. . . just cannot focus. . . too distracted. . . Can I meet her?

 

moan!

 

 

Uh, Vinnie, you have seen Return of the Jedi, right? Look a bit closer at that pic.....

No, never heard of it! Is it a movie? Is it about hottie women in barbarian outfits! Where can I find a copy? Oh, and what is that dark shadow behind her?

 

[+The Leprechauns]

Oh, I knew what Vinnie's point was, just adding a funny personal spin to it. Gotta have Topic Drift, ya know.

Oh... well... My observation i... I mean... Oh...

 

Gosh darn it, VegasCacheHounds, I keep trying to respond coherently to your post above, but I have become obsessed with that barbarian superhero-type woman posing in the bikini and cape in your avatar image. You know, this one:

 

sigh! It's hopeless. . . just cannot focus. . . too distracted. . . Can I meet her?

 

moan!

 

 

Vinny, I need to make another "Interesting Observation About Geocaching." And that is, "THE. PIG. IS. EVERYWHERE." VegasCacheHounds has surrendered and is under The Pig's control. The Pig has taken a very lovely wife away from him, and left poor Vegas as but a shell of his former self, condemned to an eternal existence as a forum surfer.

 

 

Geocaching was a whole lot different before a single influential Pig came along and reshaped the Groundspeak Forums.

Edited June 16, 2006 by The Leprechauns

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Oh, I knew what Vinnie's point was, just adding a funny personal spin to it. Gotta have Topic Drift, ya know.

Oh... well... My observation i... I mean... Oh...

 

Gosh darn it, VegasCacheHounds, I keep trying to respond coherently to your post above, but I have become obsessed with that barbarian superhero-type woman posing in the bikini and cape in your avatar image. You know, this one:

 

sigh! It's hopeless. . . just cannot focus. . . too distracted. . . Can I meet her?

 

moan!

 

Vinny, I need to make another "Interesting Observation About Geocaching." And that is, "THE. PIG. IS. EVERYWHERE." VegasCacheHounds has surrendered and is under The Pig's control. The Pig has taken a very lovely wife away from him, and left poor Vegas as but a shell of his former self, condemned to an eternal existence as a forum surfer.

Geocaching was a whole lot different before a single influential Pig came along and reshaped the Groundspeak Forums.

sigh! Another reference to "The Pig"! Now I am more confused than ever! And I still don't know who the pig is, nor why I should not accept food from the pig! Why is life so hard to understand? Why am I so clueless? Will I always be so clueless? And, who is the hottie woman in the barbarian outfit in that avatar photo? sob!

[+Totem Clan]

Oh, I knew what Vinnie's point was, just adding a funny personal spin to it. Gotta have Topic Drift, ya know.

Oh... well... My observation i... I mean... Oh...

 

Gosh darn it, VegasCacheHounds, I keep trying to respond coherently to your post above, but I have become obsessed with that barbarian superhero-type woman posing in the bikini and cape in your avatar image. You know, this one:

<snip VCH avatar>

 

sigh! It's hopeless. . . just cannot focus. . . too distracted. . . Can I meet her?

 

moan!

 

Vinny, I need to make another "Interesting Observation About Geocaching." And that is, "THE. PIG. IS. EVERYWHERE." VegasCacheHounds has surrendered and is under The Pig's control. The Pig has taken a very lovely wife away from him, and left poor Vegas as but a shell of his former self, condemned to an eternal existence as a forum surfer.

<snip hottie/pig pic>

Geocaching was a whole lot different before a single influential Pig came along and reshaped the Groundspeak Forums.

sigh! Another reference to "The Pig"! Now I am more confused than ever! And I still don't know who the pig is, nor why I should not accept food from the pig! Why is life so hard to understand? Why am I so clueless? Will I always be so clueless? And, who is the hottie woman in the barbarian outfit in that avatar photo? sob!

Trust me, you wouldn't want to meet the pig. In this case ignorance is bliss

 

Who's on PIG patrol today anyway?

[+Team GPSaxophone]

And what on earth is that pig doing with my saxophone?

 

 

 

 

I would have responded to the OP, but there wasn't a question in his post

[Nudecacher]

hello?

 

Nudecacher

[+Totem Clan]

Back on topic though:

 

I've a lot of TNLN logs. I've hanging my head in shame posted a few. Some caches that are out there now are JAC (Just Another Cache). They don't involve a hunt, they are not in an interesting spot, and they are the normal, I've seen it before, container. All too often they all three come together to make JAC. The sport has not grow to point of boredom, there is just too much JAC

Edited June 16, 2006 by Totem Clan

[Nudecacher]

Back on topic though:

 

I've a lot of TNLN logs. I've hanging my head in shame posted a few. Some caches that are out there now are JAC (Just Another Cache). They don't involve a hunt, they are not in an interesting spot, and they are the normal, I've seen it before, container. All too often they all three come together to make JAC. The sport has not grow to point of boredom, there is just too much JAC

 

Maybe you're doing it wrong?

 

Nudecacher

[+AuntieWeasel]

Unfortunately, I'm not offering solutions. I am only offering what I can glean to be the source of this downhill path with which the community seems to be struggling with greater frequency.

 

I dunno. I have a pretty small caching radius, due to crap car, but my area seems to be doing well lately. Some really nice quality hides and enthusiastic new players.

 

Of course, you've got four years on me, so things may look very different to you.

[+Team Cotati]

Back on topic though:

 

I've a lot of TNLN logs. I've hanging my head in shame posted a few. Some caches that are out there now are JAC (Just Another Cache). They don't involve a hunt, they are not in an interesting spot, and they are the normal, I've seen it before, container. All too often they all three come together to make JAC. The sport has not grow to point of boredom, there is just too much JAC

 

grown

[+Criminal]

Back on topic though:

 

I've a lot of TNLN logs. I've hanging my head in shame posted a few. Some caches that are out there now are JAC (Just Another Cache). They don't involve a hunt, they are not in an interesting spot, and they are the normal, I've seen it before, container. All too often they all three come together to make JAC. The sport has not grow to point of boredom, there is just too much JAC

That is not at all unusual. The outcome seems to go one of two ways, either you quit altogether, or you become choosier about what you’ll look for.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Back on topic though:

 

I've a lot of TNLN logs. I've hanging my head in shame posted a few. Some caches that are out there now are JAC (Just Another Cache). They don't involve a hunt, they are not in an interesting spot, and they are the normal, I've seen it before, container. All too often they all three come together to make JAC. The sport has not grow to point of boredom, there is just too much JAC

That is not at all unusual. The outcome seems to go one of two ways, either you quit altogether, or you become choosier about what you’ll look for.

Maybe that's why after 4 years of geocaching I don't even have 1000 finds

[+Ambrosia]

Back on topic though:

 

I've a lot of TNLN logs. I've hanging my head in shame posted a few. Some caches that are out there now are JAC (Just Another Cache). They don't involve a hunt, they are not in an interesting spot, and they are the normal, I've seen it before, container. All too often they all three come together to make JAC. The sport has not grow to point of boredom, there is just too much JAC

That is not at all unusual. The outcome seems to go one of two ways, either you quit altogether, or you become choosier about what you’ll look for.

Maybe that's why after 4 years of geocaching I don't even have 1000 finds

Eh, don't whine. You're gonna beat me to it.

[Nudecacher]

Back on topic though:

 

I've a lot of TNLN logs. I've hanging my head in shame posted a few. Some caches that are out there now are JAC (Just Another Cache). They don't involve a hunt, they are not in an interesting spot, and they are the normal, I've seen it before, container. All too often they all three come together to make JAC. The sport has not grow to point of boredom, there is just too much JAC

That is not at all unusual. The outcome seems to go one of two ways, either you quit altogether, or you become choosier about what you’ll look for.

Maybe that's why after 4 years of geocaching I don't even have 1000 finds

 

I'm even picker. I've only got 300 after 3 years. Some of them were kind of exciting too.

 

Nudecacher

[+Renegade Knight]

My chaning goals may shed some light on the future for at least some of us.

 

My first goal is to hit 1000. There have been a truckload of urban caches placed recently and when I finally get out side and cache I'll pass 1000 in a day most likely. Exactly at the high rate that you said.

 

After 1000, I don't care anymore. If I had a number goal it would be to knock someone off their self proclaimed cache king pedistal but since I don't live where that would be possible and fun I'm going to start specializing in placing remote or interesting caches and finding remote or interesting caches. All the ones that I meant to do but never got around to because I tripped all over the urban spew on the way.

 

Then maybe my numbers won't be racking up so much, but heck, 1000 is enough of a number for my purposes.

[+Klemmer]

Criminal:

There's a third option: become a Benchmarker. I'm drifting that way quickly. Still a few caches, once n a while, but mostly benchmarks. Fits my mentality and needs better, I think, at least for the present.

[+Cache Viking]

The game is what you make of it and the type of caches you desire to find. As for the rest, just ignore it and have fun.

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

We have always been choosy about what we look for. After almost 4 years, we are far from bored with caching. Maybe because caching is always an experience for us. Both of us, with the dog, out for a fun afternoon of caching. Nah, we dont get bored with it. What we look for has changed a bit due to personal limitations that are increasingly limited each year.

 

For cache logs, I try to post something entertaining for the cache, whether the log is long or short. I figure it is the reward for the hider. The hider deserves something more than TNLNSL, TFTC. My logs wont win any awards, but I think they are not too bad.

[+carleenp]

I dunno.... I remember seeing these same types of complaints alot over the past several years. Things just seem to go in cycles. That doesn't mean that more urban caches (especially micros) hasn't led to more complaints or issues, but I'm not entirely convinced there. Perhaps as it increases it aggravates it, but it was still there early on and will always be. And if so, that is the evolution of things and so be it? I know you were not offering solutions and I am not either, except to say I can deal with it for now. I figure where ever I am there will always be some cool caches because I will aim to place some. And if only a few others do the same, that is still enough to make me happy.

[+suemac]

This whole process of a sport evolving is so interesting and agonizing to be involved in :-).

 

I think one of the issues we face today is the paucity of rules about the sport. Few rules allows us to be creative, challenging, to play and experiment with our hides. It allows us freedom - not security.

 

Few rules means the parameters of measuring 'good' and 'bad' in the sport are not well-defined. Well-defined rules create security - in football, you know exactly what a touchdown is because there is a set of rules that define it exactly. In caching. people tend to form a set of internal rules they follow - this is a 'good' cache, that is not. Therefore some people feel that what one cacher calls a smiley is really cheating, because it breaks one of theiry internal rules. I feel a lot of the angst we see expressed here in the forums comes from different cachers having conflicting internal rules.

 

So as a caching community, we eventually have to decide if we're going to create more rules by codifying what some subset of us calls 'good' and 'bad' caches - hence creating more security for those who like everyone to play just the same - or if we're going to continue to keep a minimal hand on the sport and allow it the freedom to change and grow.

 

Personally (ah, I knew she'd get to this eventually!) ... the sport is called 'geocaching'. I think a find should be something that you have to use a GPSr and a set of coordinates to locate. Other than that, I like the freedom to experience many different types of hides - I don't want to make rules that discriminate between one type of hide and another.

[+sbell111]

My medicine must be kicking in. I just browsed this entire thread and the only thing I got out of it is that NFA will either mow the yard on Sunday or after work on Monday.