+scolba Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 went out for my first benchmarks tonight...looked for 4, came up 0-4. We MAY have found one (LC0374), but im not going to claim it as a find unless i can get it confirmed. It was a cement column on its side with some angle iron coming out of the bottom. It looks like it should have stuck in the ground with the angle. It was really close to the coordinates and almost spot on to the description.....so heres a pic. have you guys ever seen a benchmark on one of these???? sorry, its kind of a crappy pic....i just couldn't get teh thing to budge! We found the witness post for another one (LC1691), but couldnt actually find the benchmark....grrr....we'll get one soon i hope!! Quote Link to comment
+woody_k Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Don't get too discouraged about going 0 for 4. Many times I have had almost those exact stats. Other times I went 4 for 4. Could be you just hit an area that they are missing. Quote Link to comment
Wintertime Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Scolba, from the datasheet description of LC0374, the disk should be on the top of the concrete post. If the angle iron you mention is to the left of the post in your photo, then that would have been the base and the disk should be on the right hand end of the post. Clearly, the station is lost, but if for your own curiosity you want to see the disk, try brushing the dirt away from the right hand end. Patty Quote Link to comment
+scolba Posted June 16, 2006 Author Share Posted June 16, 2006 The post is on private property, so I am going to go knock on the door first to see if I can mess around with it, and maybe try to extract it. Deffinately for my own curiosity! If I do find that the disk is there, what should I do from that point? The marker hasn't been recovered by the NGS since 1986. Should I report it as destroyed and leave it there? Pick it up and mail to them? lol...probably not that one.... we're gonna go out again on monday to see if we can find some more. Hopfully we'll get a find and won't be bummed anymore! lol Thanks guys! (and gals ) Quote Link to comment
Bill93 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 If you find a disk out of place, you should send a photos of the disk (closeup and area) to Deb.Brown@noaa.gov proving that it is destroyed. After they change their data base to show it officially listed as destroyed, they don't seem to mind you taking the disk (providing you haven't destroyed it intentionally). In some cases they even instruct people to remove the disk to prevent future confusion (e.g., someone setting the post up again at the wrong height). In the cases I've heard of, they didn't seem to mention what to do with the disk after it is removed. Quote Link to comment
mloser Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 That post does look suspiciously like one of the precast posts popular in the 1930s and into the 1940s. They seem to break off very easily as they are thin and are not reinforced in any way. I have found at least 5 of them destroyed after being hit by autos, etc. From what I can gather, both from my experience and from some discussions in here, those posts were not being used in the 1950s though, so you may have found a piece of curb. Also, I never saw the bottom of one but can't imagine why there would be a piece of angle iron on it. Like Deb said--take a look at the ends of the concrete. You may find a disk in one of them! For LC1691 you are looking for something like this: KW3206. The benchmark itself is beneath a metal cap with a hinge and is the top of a rod driven into the ground. The cap is usually set at ground level and it doesn't take long for grass to totally cover it. You should measure carefully, especially the shorter measurements. I would start by taping off 3.3 feet south of the pole and probing with a semi-pointy object such as a screwdriver (I use a Walmart camp fork with the double tines broken off). You shouldn't have to probe deeply but should hit something hard just below the surface. My technique when the mark is this close to a reference point is to measure the distance, then probe along an arc that distance from the object. "South" in this case means "sort of south"--somewhere between southwest and southeast, so there is an arc of locations it could be. If I still didn't find it I would measure the 28.5 feet from the center of the closer road and try to find the intersection of the two measurements. If you have a metal detector the logo cap would be very easy to locate. Quote Link to comment
+scolba Posted June 16, 2006 Author Share Posted June 16, 2006 (edited) That post does look suspiciously like one of the precast posts popular in the 1930s and into the 1940s. They seem to break off very easily as they are thin and are not reinforced in any way. I have found at least 5 of them destroyed after being hit by autos, etc. From what I can gather, both from my experience and from some discussions in here, those posts were not being used in the 1950s though, so you may have found a piece of curb. Also, I never saw the bottom of one but can't imagine why there would be a piece of angle iron on it. Like Deb said--take a look at the ends of the concrete. You may find a disk in one of them! This one has me the most excited, especially after your description! The reason I say that, is because there isn't a road for about 2 miles of there that has a curb. Its all oil/gravel roads, and asphalt with gravel shoulders So that gives me hope!! Wishful thinking??? Yes, probably....lol. Ill get out there with some tools (and premission i hope!) next week and at least get closure on that object! For LC1691 you are looking for something like this: KW3206. The benchmark itself is beneath a metal cap with a hinge and is the top of a rod driven into the ground. The cap is usually set at ground level and it doesn't take long for grass to totally cover it. You should measure carefully, especially the shorter measurements. I would start by taping off 3.3 feet south of the pole and probing with a semi-pointy object such as a screwdriver (I use a Walmart camp fork with the double tines broken off). You shouldn't have to probe deeply but should hit something hard just below the surface. My technique when the mark is this close to a reference point is to measure the distance, then probe along an arc that distance from the object. "South" in this case means "sort of south"--somewhere between southwest and southeast, so there is an arc of locations it could be. If I still didn't find it I would measure the 28.5 feet from the center of the closer road and try to find the intersection of the two measurements. If you have a metal detector the logo cap would be very easy to locate. One of the problems I have with this benchmark's description is the poles. The poles that are there are way newer than 1986. Typically, do they place now poles in the same location as the old ones??? The witness post was right at the footing for the guy wire. Is there some kind of 'rule of thumb' as to maximum/minimum distance a witness post can be from the actual bm?? Thanks for helpin out a newb, guys! I appreciate it! Edited June 16, 2006 by scolba Quote Link to comment
+Klemmer Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Scolba: In your browse through the ME FIRST thread, you did notice the big difference between SCALE and ADJUSTED positions (item #7), right? That can make a big difference in your success rate. Sounds like you are using the descriptions, which is good, not just "following the arrow" on the GPSr. We were all newbies at one time, and I speak from my newbie experience on the #7 subject. When I started hunting benchmarks (late 2001) the difference between scaled and adjusted was not at all obvious. Quote Link to comment
mloser Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 A 3 lb sledge will knock the top off that post pretty easily. I have done it a few times. I have also dragged posts that large to my car and thrown them in the trunk. I would guess that is about 75 lbs of concrete. Here are some pics of a broken post like that, although the broken piece is much shorter. Look at the pics in my log--they shoe the post on its side. The person who found it after I couldn't painted it orange, btw. They don't come that way! Here is a better pic (look at Airnut's pics, not mine) showing the monument itself. These monuments are rarely this exposed. This monument is now on my back porch, btw. That is how I know what they weigh! Witness posts: There may be a guideline but I haven't figured it out yet! I have seen anything from 1 to 3 feet (and a few that were more) from the mark. Note that the description says the mark is .3 meters (about 1 foot) west of the witness post. They may have disturbed the witness post when they put in the new pole and just stuck it back anywhere when they got done so that distance and direction would be a good starting point but not a guarantee. My history with power poles has been pretty good. Even when I have found a newer pole it seems to be at the same location as the old one. Sometimes they set the new pole right beside the old one, move the wires, then remove the old one though, so it may be in a different spot. I would start my search by assuming it was where expected, then broaden my sweeps with the probe or detector. After a couple of minutes of that I would get the measurement from the close road to tighten the search down. If that failed I would probably try to get the measurement from the farther road, but it may be pretty hard to get a measurement from the centerline of a busy road. Take your time, measure what you can measure, and just stop and look around a bit if you get stuck. There may be a flat spot in the grass, or a spot where the grass is a bit less green. It may just be the logo cap under there! Quote Link to comment
Bill93 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Just for practice, it is good for a newcomer to find several marks that someone else has logged a find on. It gives you a better feel for the typical situations where they are placed. Quote Link to comment
+scolba Posted June 16, 2006 Author Share Posted June 16, 2006 yeah, we are going to look for one tomorrow that has been found already, though only about a mile from LC1691. I have also arranged to borrow my friends metal detector, so we'll find 'er! After looking at the pics you linked, mloser, i am starting to think the cement isn't of the same construction. what i found was thinner yet taller. I guess they come in all shapes and sizes, so its still possible. Quote Link to comment
Bill93 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 (edited) Most of the pre-cast posts I've seen have had beveled edges and a slight taper, which you can see in the picture that mloser refers to. I couldn't see those features in your picture of the mystery concrete. See the picture at LE0257. The difference in shape between the broken post, the fence post, and the brace gave me confidence to log this one as NF Presumed Destroyed. Edited June 16, 2006 by Bill93 Quote Link to comment
+Astro_D Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Don't be discouraged! I have found while BMing, the not finding them has just as much weight as finding them! There are many days we put on 100 plus miles, spend a good 8 hours and only come up with three or four finds. It's no big deal!! Even if you didn't find anything, getting out there and searching you are fine tuning your detective skills, your power of observation, your knack for knowing directions, then taking all that info to write a coherent description (hey, find or not, you need to write those logs on GC.com) and learning some history. Seriously, if your out having fun and spending some quality time together, finds or not, you had a successful trip! Katrina AstroD-Team Quote Link to comment
+Klemmer Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Katrina is absolutely right! That's one thing that makes BM'ing different than geocaching. You can have a day of no-finds, and still have accomplished your "goal", and log'em at GC.com (and eventually with NGS when you are comfortable with that). Those No-Finds are important also. Quote Link to comment
+scolba Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 Ya know..i dont' think i am getting discouraged. I mean, i was yesterday, but talking to you guys on here has really gotten me pumped to go back out there! LOL..actually its kind of sad....quick story: Tonight we were on the way to meet with the lady who is making our wedding cake. She lives in the triving metropolis of Carlock, IL (about 500 people), and I spied along the side of the road what i thought was a witness post!! I was like, OOH OOH OOH!!! We HAVE to stop there on the way home!! (we were already late getting there...) So we stop there on the way back...i hop out and get closer, but it turns out to be a gas pipeline purge point. DOH! My mom and fiance were both laughing at me the whole time.....lol....oh well. But i think i've been hit by the bug. I'm also having some trouble watching the road as i drive along some backroads now...lol. I think i need a 12 step program or something. So really all i can say is, thanks a lot guys! you have given me a new obsession until the snow shows up! Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 So really all i can say is, thanks a lot guys! you have given me a new obsession until the snow shows up! Welcome aboard, and you don't need to let the snow stop you! When the ground is free of snow, you look for the ground marks such as disks, rivets, chiseled marks, etc. & when the snow flies you start looking for the "Intersection" stations such as towers, cupolas, spires, masts, etc. With a little luck your new bride will get bitten by the same bug and enjoy hunting benchmarks with you. Have fun! John Quote Link to comment
Team Fawlty Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 i hop out and get closer, but it turns out to be a gas pipeline purge point. DOH! My mom and fiance were both laughing at me the whole time.....lol....oh well. I know the feeling. I stop and look at any stick with a flag on it now. They seem to be mostly for pipelines and buried cable, though. Quote Link to comment
+BuckBrooke Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 At a certain point, you get used to the witness posts in your area. Out here, on the highways/roads pink is gas, particular small white ones are NMDOT, faded large white ones are NGS, etc... Quote Link to comment
Wintertime Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Tonight we were on the way to meet with the lady who is making our wedding cake. She lives in the triving metropolis of Carlock, IL (about 500 people), and I spied along the side of the road what i thought was a witness post!! I was like, OOH OOH OOH!!! We HAVE to stop there on the way home!! (we were already late getting there...) So we stop there on the way back...i hop out and get closer, but it turns out to be a gas pipeline purge point. DOH! My mom and fiance were both laughing at me the whole time.....lol....oh well. But i think i've been hit by the bug. Just a friendly tip--do not do that on the day of your actual wedding. Might be a good idea to keep the benchmark hunting to a minumum on your honeymoon. too. Patty Quote Link to comment
+Astro_D Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Glad to hear you've been bitten!! I have yet to find a 12 step program myself.... I agree with Patty, don't do it on your wedding day....but then again, what a story to tell Katrina AstroD-Team Quote Link to comment
+scolba Posted June 19, 2006 Author Share Posted June 19, 2006 Thanks a lot for all the welcomes! Its nice to be on a forum where people are so friendly! Welcome aboard, and you don't need to let the snow stop you! When the ground is free of snow, you look for the ground marks such as disks, rivets, chiseled marks, etc. & when the snow flies you start looking for the "Intersection" stations such as towers, cupolas, spires, masts, etc. With a little luck your new bride will get bitten by the same bug and enjoy hunting benchmarks with you. Have fun! John Hi John! Yeah, the snow probably won't stop me from searching, all the benchmarks will have to be on the side of a snowmobile trail, though! Thats about the only thing I do during the winter! Just a friendly tip--do not do that on the day of your actual wedding. Might be a good idea to keep the benchmark hunting to a minumum on your honeymoon. too. I dunno Patty, Astro has a point...it would be good story! How fun would it be if I find a benchmark on my own ahead of time, and then go hide the marriage license there or something! lol...then SHE has to go find it before we can get married!! Yeah, your right...probably not too smart. LOL Quote Link to comment
Wintertime Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I dunno Patty, Astro has a point...it would be good story! And you'd be needing some stories to pass the time, because you wouldn't have a wife to pass it with. How fun would it be if I find a benchmark on my own ahead of time, and then go hide the marriage license there or something! lol...then SHE has to go find it before we can get married!! If she were a dedicated benchmark hunter, that would be fun. Since she presumably isn't...not so much. Anyway, happy hunting! Patty Quote Link to comment
Team Fawlty Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Thanks a lot for all the welcomes! Its nice to be on a forum where people are so friendly! Welcome aboard, and you don't need to let the snow stop you! When the ground is free of snow, you look for the ground marks such as disks, rivets, chiseled marks, etc. & when the snow flies you start looking for the "Intersection" stations such as towers, cupolas, spires, masts, etc. With a little luck your new bride will get bitten by the same bug and enjoy hunting benchmarks with you. Have fun! John Hi John! Yeah, the snow probably won't stop me from searching, all the benchmarks will have to be on the side of a snowmobile trail, though! Thats about the only thing I do during the winter! Just a friendly tip--do not do that on the day of your actual wedding. Might be a good idea to keep the benchmark hunting to a minumum on your honeymoon. too. I dunno Patty, Astro has a point...it would be good story! How fun would it be if I find a benchmark on my own ahead of time, and then go hide the marriage license there or something! lol...then SHE has to go find it before we can get married!! Yeah, your right...probably not too smart. LOL Go after this one EZ4741 on your wedding day! Brendan Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I'll agree with Katrina, and Klemmer and TeddyBearMama. As opposed to geocaching, where the smiley is the reward, in benchmarking, you can search for anything and everything! Or, you can only search for benchmarks that have already been found. Me, I'll search for almost anything. If I get a 50% found ratio, I'm doing great (or I'm cheating.) I went four for twelve yesterday, including some searches through the phragmites in the New Jersey Meadowlands, along the Hackensack River. (An interesting hunt.) And, yes, we went searching for a few of those infamous 1914 'set in cement in clay tile pipes' along the Passaic and Hackensack Rivers (most reported lost in 1932). (There are over a hundred of these, and I keep promising myself that I'll stop looking fo them!) If it's smileys for finds that you are looking for, only look for ones that have been found recently. If it's the challenge, then look for anything and everything. It's not as rewarding, but every so often, you get those great finds! Not logged since 1930. Not found in 1992, but easy for you to find! Quote Link to comment
Wintertime Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Go after this one EZ4741 on your wedding day! Interesting! Any idea how it got that name? It doesn't appear to be the name of a nearby road or town. Patty Quote Link to comment
68-eldo Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 I just went 0 for 4 this last week. I only had a few hours to look for benchmarks so I was not expecting a lot of success. These two I'm pretty sure they are there, just inaccessible: DX4789 DX4790 These two are most likly destroyed: AB8645 DX2290 Stuff happens; you just have to be patient. Don’t give up. Quote Link to comment
+Tool_Man Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Thanks for this thread! I was a little discouraged after finaly deciding to go bechmark hunting and finding only one of four. Now I know that is doing OK! I didn't log the others as DNF for fear that I must be doing something wrong since I didn't find them! Anyway, I have a question about NGS benchmarks: It is my understanding that only NGS benchmarks are listed on gc.com but the benchmark that I found BZ0837 was clearly marked Army Corps of Engineers (I should have photographed it!) but it carried the correct designation (UK) and date so I logged it as found. Was I correct in doing this? I have found a lot of US Army Corps of Engineers markers but they are not in the gc.com system. One more question: Is there a benchmark hunting for dummies page somwhere? I sometimes search the board and weed through 50 posts before finding an answer and that can take some time away from the benchmark hunt! Thanks for the thread! There is hope for me yet! Tool Man Quote Link to comment
+Tool_Man Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 I just found the FAQ page that clearly states "Read me first before posting question!, lol! Quote Link to comment
ArtMan Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 It is my understanding that only NGS benchmarks are listed on gc.com but the benchmark that I found BZ0837 was clearly marked Army Corps of Engineers (I should have photographed it!) but it carried the correct designation (UK) and date so I logged it as found. Was I correct in doing this? I have found a lot of US Army Corps of Engineers markers but they are not in the gc.com system. Tool Man, The Geocaching.com database is based on the NGS database, ca. 2000. (NGS updates continuously, but Geocaching is frozen in time.). NGS includes marks from a wide variety of sources including federal agencies (USGS, Army Corps of Engineers, etc.), state agencies (e.g., North Carolina Geodetic Survey), county and local agencies, private survey or engineering firms, and even some international entities. But for a variety of reasons the NGS does not necessarily include ALL of the marks set by a particular organization in its database. Hope this helps. -ArtMan- Quote Link to comment
+Tool_Man Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 (edited) Tool Man, The Geocaching.com database is based on the NGS database, ca. 2000. (NGS updates continuously, but Geocaching is frozen in time.). NGS includes marks from a wide variety of sources including federal agencies (USGS, Army Corps of Engineers, etc.), state agencies (e.g., North Carolina Geodetic Survey), county and local agencies, private survey or engineering firms, and even some international entities. But for a variety of reasons the NGS does not necessarily include ALL of the marks set by a particular organization in its database. Hope this helps. -ArtMan- Thanks ArtMan, I downloaded all the BMs for my county from the NGS database loaded them into GSAK (after the .gpx conversion. See it does help to read FAQs!). My new list sure looks a lot better than the list from gc.com. Thanks for taking the time to help! Tool Man Edited June 26, 2006 by Tool_Man Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.