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Reviewers: Please Stop Approving Tb Hotels


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If Travel Bug Prisons are allowed (and they are, a search on the words Bug Prison finds five (GCG1ZA for example, I got my hand slapped for trying to shut that one down)) then I don't think you'll have much luck with TB Hotels!

 

I have visited maybe 20 TB Hotels, some quite nice, and you are right, all could have been traditional caches.

 

None, however, had the purpose of anything but to help TBs along, so I don't see the problem with them.

 

I do have an problem with exchange requirements - TBs aren't trade items, you should be able to take one without leaving one, and should be able to take more than one if you can help them on their mission.

 

Perhaps trade restrictions are the issue you have, instead of the TB Hotel itself?

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I think there is a place for TB Hotels, as follows. The nearest TB Hotel to me is located a couple of miles from Gatwick Airport in the South East of the UK, and this makes it very convenient for cachers to pick up a TB on route to the airport. In addition, if I find a TB that has a mission involving foreign travel, I can drop it off in the knowledge that there is a very good chance its next move will be abroad.

 

It may work differently elsewhere, and there may be just too many TB Hotels in one place, but there is still a case for them, in my opinion, given the example above.

 

Just my 2p (3.68$)

 

Nanny.

 

outtahere.gif

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I think the guidelines should be updated to cover this type of cache as they certainly serve a usefull purpose.

 

TB's are owned by the TB owner yet some TB hotels try to impose rules on other peoples property like

 

always leave a tb in the box

 

You can only swap one bug for another bug

 

Always leave at least two bugs in the hotel
.

 

These arent made up they are genuine quotes perhaps some better guidelines for the reviewers are required with regards to this type of cache ?

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Like The Alabama Rambler, I'm going to assume that your rant refers to TB Hotels that have trading requirements on the Travel Bugs.

 

When I review such caches I add a reviewer note explaining that the cache meets listing guidelines and that I am going to go ahead and publish it, but querying them about adding restrictions to the free travel of the TBs.

I explain that the TBs in the cache do not become their property, and that I've never seen a TB with the goal of hanging out in TB hotels. I'm careful to add that this is a personal view, and doesn't affect the listing of their cache. This generally gets me into an email exchange with the cache placer. Two of the last three TB hotels I listed have removed the trade requirement, and asked for a trade instead.

 

And, of course, you can simply ignore the trading requirement and move any bug that you can help. The worst that can happen is that the hotel owner will delete your find log. You've still had the experience and fun of the cache, and you've moved the bugs too. Not all bad.

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Perhaps trade restrictions are the issue you have, instead of the TB Hotel itself?

 

You are probably correct, although I still don't see a need for hotels. Maybe it's my geographical location that makes me blind to the benefits.

 

A TB hotel, ideally, is only a cache that is conveniently located, and sized, to better facilitate the movement of TBs. Good ones are placed near travel hubs or cross roads.

 

Looking at it from a TB holder's point of view, you've got a TB that is going west, but you're going east. A good TB hotel would allow you to conveniently drop a TB so it can be easily picked up by someone going west. A good real-life example is if someone is coming out of Florida on I-95 and the bug is going to Maine, but the TB holder is going to, say, Tennessee. They might I-26 west. By dropping off the TB at a hotel before getting off I-95 someone going north could pick it up and further its goal.

 

Of course, there's nothing wrong with a little "out-of-route" excursions, but still a hotel is a convenient way for someone to offload a TB.

 

Hope this helps.

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And, of course, you can simply ignore the trading requirement and move any bug that you can help. The worst that can happen is that the hotel owner will delete your find log. You've still had the experience and fun of the cache, and you've moved the bugs too. Not all bad.

 

I've always been amused at the thought that for a TB hotel owner to enforce a trade restriction he had to chase you down and take the TB back. Really, what are they going to do? Nothing much.

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Why would anyone approve a cache that is designed to squelch the game?!

I publish any cache that meets the listing guidelines and the site's terms of use. Whether or not it's a "good cache" by whomever's definition. Sometimes this means holding up a cache I really like, because of a guidelines issue, and holding my nose while I press the "publish" button on a cache that leaves me wondering "why did he hide this?" So, I publish caches because that is what I am supposed to be doing.

 

Palmetto gives an excellent answer on how reviewers can make gentle suggestions during the review process. But in my experience, this sometimes leads to a nasty e-mail from the cache owner. I have tried to suggest that TB hotels not have trading restrictions, and gotten back a faceful of "where's it say that in the guidelines?" I've even been flamed for asking someone to double check their one-star terrain rating to make sure that the cache is handicapped accessible. So I would ask back, why would any reviewer bother to question something odd, or make extra suggestions? Fortunately, most people appreciate the suggestions.

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I have no problem with TB hotels, and I wonder as to why anyone would think that their existence squelches the game. There are so many kinds of caches out there. I see nothing wrong with one that "specializes", for all the reasons already stated.

While people may debate the ethics of trading restrictions, I do think that it is poor form to empty/nearly empty a TB hotel of it's bugs, without leaving any. There is a new TB hotel near our area that was made by schoolchildren, and was their introduction to caching by their teacher. All the children made bugs for the hotel, to be sent out into the world. When we got there, there were only two bugs in the cache, as many people had taken bugs without leaving anything. One cacher even took seven bugs, but left only one coin.

Whether or not someone is entitled to take that many bugs is a question I'm sure that will have many people divided, but for the sake of the children who have made the hotel, I hope that future cachers will be a bit more concientious, and leave something for the next person.

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[RANT]There has been a lot of discussion regarding lost TB's and TB hotels. Frankly, ANY cache that is big enough to hold a TB is meant to have TBs in it. There isn't a need for a SPECIAL cache to hold them. Why would anyone approve a cache that is designed to squelch the game?![/RANT]

Bah! Please 'splain to me using very small and simple words as I am very stoopid how my RDU TB Hotel is squelching this sport? :laughing:

 

It is hidden with permission on the hotel property closest to the local international airport, along the main road to the interstate. The exits for I-40 in both directions are less than .5 miles from the cache, allowing easy in/out for all visiting cachers. :laughing:

 

Lets look at some facts:

  • open for business for 3.5 years with only one muggling inicident
  • over 600 posted logs involving the healthy and positive movement of TB's
  • watched by 20 cachers
  • on 3 bookmark lists
  • many many repeat 'customers'
  • has a guardian snake in springtime
  • visited by many out of towners and even some foriegn visitors too

Let's look at some choice examples from those 600+ logs too:

  • I've been watching this cache for a while hoping to get to Raleigh and finally I made it! Interesting spot. I have stayed at the "business" next door before but didn't know this cache was there.
  • Consider this the first of many finds for us in NC!
  • Quick grab on the way to the airport. Back home to the west coast so took the Go West Bear.
  • Good spot for a TB Hotel!
  • Great location so close to the airport!
  • I love this location. There needs to be more at other airports!
  • Just another routine TB drop for a couple of TB's I picked up in the UK yesterday.

So this one is bad for the sport how? :laughing:

Back to you Chet. :unsure:

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Travel bug hotels, a lot is written about them. Some see a hotel as a prison; some see it as a useful portal for bugs to travel over long distances.

 

I see them like an animal asylum. Every time when a cacher visits the hotel all the bugs try to look as good they can. Since they were set in the wide world to travel, they all want to be taken out, to travel again. Only the one who looks the best is rewarded and is swopped with a new victim. Ultimate this leads to a hotel populated with boring, uninteresting travelbugs.

 

And there is the fun/challenge for the “owner” of a new travelbug. When you want your travelbug to be uneffected by the hurdle of a travelbug hotel, you have to make your bug as interesting as possible. When you can make your bug appealing to everyone, it will leave a hotel the next time someone visits it.

 

Unfortunately my bugs are not that good; one is now in the airport lounge of the airport of Rotterdam (Holland). A couple of cachers have found it the cache, but no one took “my” bug. A pity, but I guess I should have made my bug more likable.

 

Zilvervloot.

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One of my favorite quotes.

 

If a travel bug hotel is in a good spot for the quick and easy exchange of travel bugs, then an empty hotel won't stay empty long. People are always looking for a convenient place to drop bugs off. The owner of a well-placed hotel should actually be pleased if the hotel is occasionally empty, since it shows that the hotel is serving its purpose: to get bugs moving quickly. And if a hotel does stay empty for long periods of time without the cache owner continually raiding other caches to re-stock it, then it's not a good place for a travel bug hotel.

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Travel bug hotels, a lot is written about them. Some see a hotel as a prison; some see it as a useful portal for bugs to travel over long distances.

 

I see them like an animal asylum. Every time when a cacher visits the hotel all the bugs try to look as good they can. Since they were set in the wide world to travel, they all want to be taken out, to travel again. Only the one who looks the best is rewarded and is swopped with a new victim. Ultimate this leads to a hotel populated with boring, uninteresting travelbugs.

 

And there is the fun/challenge for the “owner” of a new travelbug. When you want your travelbug to be uneffected by the hurdle of a travelbug hotel, you have to make your bug as interesting as possible. When you can make your bug appealing to everyone, it will leave a hotel the next time someone visits it.

 

Unfortunately my bugs are not that good; one is now in the airport lounge of the airport of Rotterdam (Holland). A couple of cachers have found it the cache, but no one took “my” bug. A pity, but I guess I should have made my bug more likable.

 

Zilvervloot.

Hate to bring up somber issues here, but let us pause for a moment and remember that some of the "flophouse" TB Hotels which are really more like TB Prisons are also, according to the news media and international TB aid organizations, the scene of terrible torture for some of the "less desirable" TBs who languish there, and some of these unfortunate TBs are even starved and deprived of water; all because of the evil designs of the owners of the TB prisons. Some of the photos which I have seen on TV news shows of TBs being tortured at these TB Prisons bring tears to my eyes. In one, a fiend had placed a TB in a large bench vise, tightened it, and was using a propane torch and a Dremel tool with grinding attachments to physically torture the TB, which was screaming. Some of these TBs end up spending the rest of their lives in TB long-term care hospitals as a result of incapacitation and illness due to their torture at the hands of these evil people, and UN records and CIA files reveal that more than 5,100 TBs have died as a result of such torture, with most of their dead bodies tossed into weeds along a roadside or into a trash dumpster behind an urban supermarket. Not a pretty scene! :laughing:

 

Sometimes when I am out geocaching and pass nearby the location of a notorious TB "Prison", the plaintive cries and wails of the imprisoned TBs nearly breaks my heart. I call for an end to the carnage. :laughing:

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And, of course, you can simply ignore the trading requirement and move any bug that you can help. The worst that can happen is that the hotel owner will delete your find log. You've still had the experience and fun of the cache, and you've moved the bugs too. Not all bad.

 

I've always been amused at the thought that for a TB hotel owner to enforce a trade restriction he had to chase you down and take the TB back. Really, what are they going to do? Nothing much.

 

Hmmm... I've been thinking about a new career. I wonder how much I could charge as a TB Bounty Hunter. The TB Hotel owners with trading restrictions can pay me a few hundred dollars a day (+ expenses) to track down the person who violated their restrictions and get the TB's back to the hotel.

 

If I can drum up enough business that could mean a lot of free travel for me to caching :laughing:

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Travel bug hotels are only a problem if they get muggled and your own TB is in it. That sucks.

 

Travel bug hotels are only a problem if your own TB is perhaps unappealing visually and languishes there for awhile. Then it becomes a travel bug prison and that sucks.

 

The rules that hotel owners often stipulate: made to be broken, especially if there's one TB left and its going your way. If the owner is vindictive and deletes your find, move along. Most TB hotels have a 1/1 rating and require little hunting so you can probably replace your loss by the end of the weekend.

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[RANT]There has been a lot of discussion regarding lost TB's and TB hotels. Frankly, ANY cache that is big enough to hold a TB is meant to have TBs in it. There isn't a need for a SPECIAL cache to hold them. Why would anyone approve a cache that is designed to squelch the game?![/RANT]

Sheesh, who cares? :laughing: If you don't like travel bug hotels, don't go to them. If you think your travel bug suks and won't get picked up because it is dumb, make it better. It won't get picked up in a regular cache either if it is that bad...

 

edited: Why should reviewers stop approving these just because YOU don't like them.

Edited by lonesumdove
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When it is listed as a Tb motel - at least I know for sure it is a container big enough to hold a few Tb's. Unlike the random unknown boxes with ill fitting size descriptions. At least in my area they tend to help move bugs along faster than many of the seldom visted rural caches of any size.

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Here is post in a local Travel Bug Hotel

 

There are some basic “Do’s and Don’ts” for this Travel Bug Hotel and Travel Bug handling in general.

 

Travel Bug Hotel Rules (TB-101):

 

* Do NOT take a Travel Bug if you don’t have one to exchange. Drop offs without an exchange are permitted. A TB Hotel with no guests really stinks.

Who made this rule? Not GC.COM

 

If a bug need to go North or South and you are headed to the Bugs requested location why not grab it and help it on it's way. You are doing the bug owner a favor but the cache owner is telling me that it is not permitted. Since the cache owner has made this rule I will honor his request, but I still don't agree with it.

Edited by Scrapman & GaPatci21
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Here is post in a local Travel Bug Hotel

 

There are some basic “Do’s and Don’ts” for this Travel Bug Hotel and Travel Bug handling in general.

 

Travel Bug Hotel Rules (TB-101):

 

* Do NOT take a Travel Bug if you don’t have one to exchange. Drop offs without an exchange are permitted. A TB Hotel with no guests really stinks.

Who made this rule? Not GC.COM

 

If a bug need to go North or South and you are headed to the Bugs requested location why not grab it and help it on it's way. You are doing the bug owner a favor but the cache owner is telling me that it is not permitted. Since the cache owner has made this rule I will honor his request, but I still don't agree with it.

 

I generally like TB hotels with the exception of this example, that is when a TB cache's "rules" run contrary to guidelines and accepted practices. I don't think it is the cache owner's place to dictate what can and cannot be done with another's property.

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[RANT]There has been a lot of discussion regarding lost TB's and TB hotels. Frankly, ANY cache that is big enough to hold a TB is meant to have TBs in it. There isn't a need for a SPECIAL cache to hold them. Why would anyone approve a cache that is designed to squelch the game?![/RANT]

 

Nice Rant. A few key issues though.

 

First it's generally accepted practice that the bug's travel goals trump hotel rules.

Second, not all TB hotels are TB prisons.

Third, why are the cachers who like TB's putting them in the ones that are prisons?

 

TB Hotels are fine, so are Travel Bugs.

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Here is post in a local Travel Bug Hotel

 

There are some basic “Do’s and Don’ts” for this Travel Bug Hotel and Travel Bug handling in general.

 

Travel Bug Hotel Rules (TB-101):

 

* Do NOT take a Travel Bug if you don’t have one to exchange. Drop offs without an exchange are permitted. A TB Hotel with no guests really stinks.

Who made this rule? Not GC.COM

 

If a bug need to go North or South and you are headed to the Bugs requested location why not grab it and help it on it's way. You are doing the bug owner a favor but the cache owner is telling me that it is not permitted. Since the cache owner has made this rule I will honor his request, but I still don't agree with it.

 

The bug had goals and the owner had aspirations for the bug before it ever came into contact with the TB hotel. Those goals and the aspirations win, hands down, every time over hotel rules. They came first, the hotel a distant second.

 

Hotel rules are more like suggestions. Honor them if you can, otherwise ignore them when they get in the way of progress.

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I am not at all into TBs and geocoins (both concepts are rather mystifying to my very simple mind), but the only arguments and complaints which I have ever heard in this area (Maryland) against TB Hotels was in regard to those which had rules which restricted TB egress or travel, such as "take one, leave one" or ""take only one".

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So now I can see *some* benefit to TB hotels. Thanks for clearing that up everyone. Now can you tell me how to contact someone in Green Bay so I may have them retrieve my bug and return it to me so that I may make itmore appealing? As for the ones that have been in someone's possession - may I send them a message requesting my TB be mailed to me for an overhaul?

 

Reviewers: sorry I was harsh on you. <_<

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Thanks. I will go unarchive your caches now. <_<

 

As the bug owner it is always your right to ask for the return of your bug. It would be fair to offer to pay for postage, or maybe to mail a nice signature item or other trinket to the person who helps you. To find someone, look for active cache owners who have caches near the one where your bug is trapped, and write a polite e-mail.

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...hidden with permission on the hotel property closest to the local international airport, along the main road to the interstate

 

Lets look at some facts:

  • open for business for 3.5 years with only one muggling inicident
  • over 600 posted logs involving the healthy and positive movement of TB's
  • many many repeat 'customers'
  • has a guardian snake in springtime
  • visited by many out of towners and even some foriegn visitors too

Hey! :o

 

I resemble that remark! <_<

Edited by Sparrowhawk
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Now can you tell me how to contact someone in Green Bay so I may have them retrieve my bug and return it to me so that I may make itmore appealing?

 

You could post a message in the Wisconsin Geocachers Assoc. Help forum asking someone to grab it and either move it along or send it back. I'm not sure if making it more appealing is a good idea, since one of the tips to make a TB live longer is to not make it too cute. The cute ones tend to get picked up and kept.

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TB Hotels definately serve a purpose. If you're visiting a strange city/country and you have TBs to drop off, something calling itself a hotel is likely to be easily accessible, easily found, big enough to do the job and not at the end of a complex puzzle requiring internet access and/or arcane local knowledge. Haviing read this thread however I have taken onboard the general theme and lifted all rules from my own hotel which is now take or leave what you want.

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All right, I'll bite. I live within 90 miles of Green Bay and will be going there sometime this summer, but it has only been there less than a month... otherwise go to www.wi-geocaching.com and ask there. Those folks are very helpful and I am sure they would be happy to help you out and mail it back or move it on if you request it. :)

Edited by lonesumdove
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All right, I'll bite. I live within 90 miles of Green Bay and will be going there sometime this summer, but it has only been there less than a month... otherwise go to www.wi-geocaching.com and ask there. Those folks are very helpful and I am sure they would be happy to help you out and mail it back or move it on if you request it. :D

 

If it's still there when you go, I will happily pay postage. Thank you very much. :)

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All right, I'll bite. I live within 90 miles of Green Bay and will be going there sometime this summer, but it has only been there less than a month... otherwise go to www.wi-geocaching.com and ask there. Those folks are very helpful and I am sure they would be happy to help you out and mail it back or move it on if you request it. :D

 

If it's still there when you go, I will happily pay postage. Thank you very much. :)

 

I've done it. I just waited for the next cacher to pick it up and emailed them.

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I will honor his request.

 

I wouldn't, but that's just me. :)

 

I wouldn't either. And if it was a local cache, I'd be tempted to clear all of the travel bugs out of it on a regular basis until the bonehead owner got rid of the stupid rule.

 

I second this sentiment. Travel bugs are not trade swag, they are property of the bug owner. Their movement is not restricted by cache rules but by their mission.

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...hidden with permission on the hotel property closest to the local international airport, along the main road to the interstate

 

Lets look at some facts:

  • open for business for 3.5 years with only one muggling inicident
  • over 600 posted logs involving the healthy and positive movement of TB's
  • many many repeat 'customers'
  • has a guardian snake in springtime
  • visited by many out of towners and even some foriegn visitors too

Hey! :)

 

I resemble that remark! :D

For the first time in known history, a geocaching travel bug hotel has been hidden ( Hidden: 10/7/2004)

with full permission on the grounds of a largish people hotel (here's their website!) near a major airport

 

I do believe that someone needs to edit their cache page. :):D

Of course there is that variable provided by the use of the word 'known'. :D

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[RANT]There has been a lot of discussion regarding lost TB's and TB hotels. Frankly, ANY cache that is big enough to hold a TB is meant to have TBs in it. There isn't a need for a SPECIAL cache to hold them. Why would anyone approve a cache that is designed to squelch the game?![/RANT]

Well there is a great need for travel bug hotels. In some areas it is very hard to find a cache that will hold a travel bug, when a cache is listed as a travel bug hotel a cachers knows they have a place to drop a bug if need be. I have just about stoped picking up travel bugs because it is getting harder to find places to drop them

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Why would anyone approve a cache that is designed to squelch the game?!

I publish any cache that meets the listing guidelines and the site's terms of use. Whether or not it's a "good cache" by whomever's definition.

 

Wait, you mean that there is no universal objective definition of a "good cache"? Are you trying to say that what one person hates another person may love?

 

That's crazy talk, Keystone. :anicute:

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Some of us try to reason with the owner to not be a prison. We can suggest. I find that a lot of times this works.

 

When you create a TB hotel and control the release of the bugs you are creating a prison not a hotel. The point of TBs is to travel not sit in a cache because the last finder only had one bug to travel. Please consider changing the requirements so that people are allowed to take as many Travel Bugs as they can move on.

 

Thank you

CO Admin

 

Edited by CO Admin
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