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So Does Anybody Like Their 60csx?


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Count me as another happy camper (and geocacher :laughing: ). My 60CSx is light years better than my previous unit (also a Garmin, purchased around 1999). Satellite acquisition is quick, even in the woods, and the accuracy is as good as I'm likely to get with a consumer-grade GPSr and with the current changing status of the WAAS satellites. Sure, the elevation can bounce around some, but I'm also aware of the inexact science involved in that determination. IMHO, it's the best bang for the buck in a GPSr available today.

 

--Larry

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I keep reading the horror stories, mine should be here in the next few days. So how does yours work?

 

Gdragon,

 

I'm a hiker and climber. I don't geocache. So maybe what's bothered me won't bother you.

 

I've had lots of problems with my 60CSx. See the "Not Entirely Happy With My Gpsmap 60csx, should I send it back to Garmin?", "60csx Elevation, Anyone ever get elevation '------' ???", and "Version 2.70 Bugs" threads for discussions of problems that I and other 60CSx owners have experienced. I've also read about problems with auto-routing, the compass, screen burnout and map lockup in other threads. In case you don't want to search through the above links, here are three of my posts in the first thread above. Post #26 details most of the problems I've experienced. Post #30 talks about Garmin's false advertising. And Post #22 discusses what I learned about the basic design flaw in the 60CSx.

 

Post #22:

8mmag, sorry to upset you. I guess you and I just see things differently.

 

From my point of view, Garmin markets products without proper pre-market testing and software quality control. That forces customers to deal with glitches and bugs in products that they paid hard-earned money to enjoy free of glitches and bugs. Garmin excuses its rush-to-market-to-maximize-profits by saying: 'What do you expect? We're on the leading edge of technology.'

 

Microsoft has been beta-testing its new Windows Vista operating system for many months. It's delayed its scheduled market date several times to ensure that all bugs and glitches are removed BEFORE Vista is marketed. IMHO, Garmin should follow this much more ethical approach to marketing.

 

Garmin rushed to wed the hypersensitive SiRF chipset with an obsolete algorithm that it's been using in pre-SiRF units. The algorithm contains about 100,000 sentences/processes that are interconnected. Many of the interconnected processes are thrown off by the SiRF chipset's sensitivity. Little Band-Aid fixes aren't going to solve the many major and interconnected problems in the algorithm. The algorithm needs to be totally revamped.

 

Garmin didn't anticipate the problems that the SiRF chipset's high sensitivity would cause. My guess is that it will take many thousand man-hours for Garmin engineers to design a proper algorithm for the 60CSx.

 

You may believe that Garmin will take the time and spend the money to fix the 60CSx. I don't share your faith in Garmin. I'd have much more faith in Garmin if it didn't dump untested products on unsuspecting customers.

 

I agree that Garmin tries to provide excellent customer service. I'd rather not have to send my 60CSx back to Garmin, which I've done. I'd rather be out on a trail, being able to trust that my GPSr will give reasonably accurate readings, not false readings due to bugs and glitches. I'd rather not have to spend time reviewing forum posts to see if others have had the same problems that I've experienced.
:laughing:

Post #26:

SandyGarrity,

 

In case your question was directed to me, I'll answer.

 

My 60CSx is my first GPSr. Including the MapSource U.S. Topo and City Navigator software, a National Geographic Topo! State-series program, rechargeable NiMH batteries, a NiMH battery charger, a 1GB MicroSD card, a screen shield, and a carrying case, I paid $1,002 for my 60CSx.

 

I had to send my first 60CSx back to Garmin because I was getting +98,422 foot and -4,921 foot elevation readings. The replacement 60CSx that Garmin sent me gave the same extremely wrong elevation readings. Garmin also sent me a 60Cx by mistake. I had to return that unit to Garmin before I could get my second replacement 60CSx.

 

When I stop to take photographs or to eat a snack or to have a conversation, my 60CSx keeps adding distance to my track log, because the hypersensitive SiRF chipset causes significant horizontal wanderings. If I turn my 60CSx off to stop the wanderings, I end up with multiple tracks instead of one easily viewable track.

 

When I take a hike with auto-calibration enabled, starting and ending at precisely the same location, my end elevation is
always
higher than my start elevation -- sometimes by as much as 80 feet. I call that "creeping elevation." I suppose, to be more correct, I should call that "vertical wandering."

 

The little rate of ascent/descent indicator, in the left lower corner of my 60CSx's Altimeter Page, constantly fluctuates large feet/mile distances, upward and downward, when I'm standing still. I guess that's "vertical wandering" too.

 

When I take repeated GPS elevation readings, using my 60CSx's Satellite Page > Menu > GPS Elevation option, I get similar large "vertical wanderings."

 

When I'm hiking
down
hill, my 60CSx's total ascent readings continue to climb; and when I hike exactly the same route day after day, I get totally different total ascent readings. From my point of view, the total ascent data field is useless.

 

At sea level, my ambient pressure and barometer readings are frequently 5 millibars apart. By definition, ambient and barometric pressures should be equal at sea level. Others have called this 60CSx malfunction "the barometer bug."

 

With auto-calibration and WAAS enabled and strong satellite signals, my 60CSx has given me elevations at National Geodetic Survey benchmarks that are 60-80 feet too high.

 

When I go through a tunnel with WAAS enabled, my 60CSx will
not
reaquire satellites after I leave the tunnel. I have to turn the 60CSx receiver off and on to reacquire satellites. I have to repeat the off-on steps when I go through multiple tunnels. That creates multiple track logs instead of one easily-viewable track log.

 

Also, if I am climbing or descending while in a tunnel, auto-calibration does not correct for changes in elevation that occurred while I was in the tunnel. Elevation readings are totally incorrect after tunnel passages.

 

During hikes, I've written down elevation readings that my 60CSx displayed. I also recorded where I was when I jotted down the 60CSx's elevation reading. The 60CSx's elevation readings are always different from the elevation readings that my MapSource software displays in track profile segments for the same locations.

 

I've explained all of the foregoing problems to two Garmin higher-ups. Both assured me that my 60CSx is working properly!

 

I'm new to GPS and Garmin. I guess I'm not yet used to the idea that $1,002 should buy me something that doesn't work as advertised but that
may
be made to work
if
Garmin publishes firmware that
may
work. I'd prefer to deal with manufacturers who work bugs out of their products, with pre-market testing, before taking my hard-earned money.

 

Compasses don't cost $1,002. Compasses work flawlessly. Topo maps work too.

 

Both compasses and topo maps can be
trusted
to work properly. After repeated and careful testing, I've learned that my 60CSx can't be trusted at all.

 

I hope I've answered your question.

Post #30:

Intermountain Angler, I'm new to GPS. Unfortunately, I didn't have your extensive military training or experience as a licensed guide. I relied on what Garmin claimed in its
. Here's part of what Garmin represented as true:

Refreshing a GPS Standard

 

*****

 

In addition, this unit features
a new, highly sensitive GPS receiver that
acquires satellites faster and
lets users track their location in challenging conditions
, such as heavy foliage or deep canyons. The GPSMAP 60CSx also incorporates a barometric altimeter for
extremely accurate elevation data
and an electronic compass that displays
an accurate heading
while standing still.

 

Considered the mainstay among serious outdoor enthusiasts
, ....

I haven't been trying to "micro manage" my 60CSx. Instead, I've been trying to figure out why my 60CSx doesn't perform as Garmin advertised. Using your word, I've been trying to separate what is "real" from what Garmin falsely claimed.

 

Maybe $1,002 is chicken-feed to you, but, for me, $1,002 is a lot of money. I certainly wouldn't have spent that huge sum on the 60CSx, software and accessories if Garmin had honestly stated that the 60CSx only gives 'approximations' and 'trends' and must be 'constantly' recalibrated because auto-calibration doesn't work.

 

Many others, who lack your extensive training and experience, have exhibited the confusion and upset that you ridicule. For example, check out theslowskys' Post #29 above in this "Not Entirely Happy With My GPSMAP 60CSx" thread. Or look at theslowskys'
in the "60csx Elevation, Anyone ever get elevation '------' ???" thread. Like me, theslowkys is "new to this GPSr stuff." He can't understand why his new 60CSx isn't accurate and wanders so much.

 

Maybe you should use your extensive training and experience to teach Garmin to be more honest.

Gdragon, I hope you have no problems with your 60CSx. Good luck!

 

TracknQ

Edited by TracknQ
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Count me as another happy camper (and geocacher :laughing: ). My 60CSx is light years better than my previous unit (also a Garmin, purchased around 1999). Satellite acquisition is quick, even in the woods, and the accuracy is as good as I'm likely to get with a consumer-grade GPSr and with the current changing status of the WAAS satellites. Sure, the elevation can bounce around some, but I'm also aware of the inexact science involved in that determination. IMHO, it's the best bang for the buck in a GPSr available today.

 

--Larry

 

Love mine. I've used quite a few. 2.70/2.50 resolved most minor issues. Still the best thing going.

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I guess I'm missing something, or the cx does not behave like the csx. The 60cx I have is superior to any unit I've previously owned with respect to accuracy. It's a vast improvement over the 60c, even when the 60c was used with a Gillson antenna.

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I definitely like my 60csx. The elevation works great. I took it on a run yesterday and calibrated it from the gps elevation in my driveway. It acurrately profiled my run as having up to 150ft of difference between start point and any given point during the run.

 

I've yet to have signal problems. I love the expandable memory. I've used the compass once when I was searching for a climbing route. After a quick calibration is worked great. City Select 6 is pretty good and I also have Worldmap, US Topo, and 2 custom maps loaded onto it.

 

I've taken mine hiking, running, skiing (lots of skiing), rock climbing, off-roading, etc and not had a single problem.

 

I think that many problems are cuz people expect the world OR because of how many of this type of unit sold there appears to be more bad apples than usual (i'm sure its the same percentage wise).

 

Edit: I'm using 2.71 beta and love saving my tracks to the card. Hoping for more microSD card type features in the future.

Edited by -Oz-
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I alos love my 60CSx. Even with the few problems I'm having it does much better than my old GPS. I think a lot of the WAAS problems are just due to them releasing it during this whole WAAS shuffle. I would however like to see the unit actually store the WAAS almanac after shutoff and try it first before throwing it out. but that's just what I want :laughing:

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I love mine. I had a gpsV garmin and its was a good unit. This one seems to work just as well accuracy wise and beats that crap out of it in too numerous ways to mention. I've been looking at the wandering issue and mine does NOT wander any more than my old gpsV did. As far as altitude getting off, well, altitude has never been a strong point with gps's so its at least as good as before. I love the altitude profile feature. The compass would be good for geoaching or walking and the times I've used it it worked as advertised always pointing me in the correct direction even though I wasn't moving (just spinning).

The expandable memory is the berries. Using only two batteries instead of four is great!

 

This GPS answered all the serious issues I had with the gpsV.

1) too slow when recalculating a route

2) too slow uploading new maps

3) not enough memory to load enough maps for my route

4) route not easy to see sometimes due to shade of grey close to highway color.

 

I have no regrets. Unless you get one of the lemons I guess you should be more than happy.

 

Todd

 

I alos love my 60CSx. Even with the few problems I'm having it does much better than my old GPS. I think a lot of the WAAS problems are just due to them releasing it during this whole WAAS shuffle. I would however like to see the unit actually store the WAAS almanac after shutoff and try it first before throwing it out. but that's just what I want :laughing:

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I haven't had a 60C or 60Cs before, so it's had for me to compare.

 

I still love my 60Csx even though it clearly has some (minor) issues.

 

Most of them are probably SW related, so I hope Garmin will solve them. One could just regret Garmin didn't work these issues out before releasing the product.

 

The bad surprises, as far as I am concerned :

 

-BIG wandering getting close to a cache in urban environment (in Madrid, Spain, if front of Palacio Real)

 

-BIG wandering getting close to another cache under moderate tree cover next to a church wall

 

I suspect this is due to reflected or altered signals but it is still deceiving. Still cannot find the second cache partly because of that.

 

-Occasional compass needle freezing

 

-Occasional "Weak Signal" Issue

 

On the other hand, I must admit that in the great open air, it is very precise and leads me within one or two meters from National Geographic benchmarks.

 

Lots of features that I still don't manage all very well, in spite of thorough practice.

 

I presume that I am able to use efficiently about 80 % of the device features, I hope that I won't find bad issues through deeper analysis (Partial and total ascents not used yet...).

 

All in all, as I previously said, I love it.

 

pyt22fr

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I keep reading the horror stories, mine should be here in the next few days.

 

So how does yours work? I wish we had polls here (or if we do I wish I was smart enough to figure out how to do one.)

 

I had a 60Cx before trading up to the CSx, solely for the compass. I've only found 4 geocaches but it became very clear a compass was going to be helpful when stationary or slow moving near a cache and the GPS heading wasn't accurate.

 

At this exact second, I see 3 meter (~9 foot) precision but no "D" in the satellite signal bars. The Cx almost always had "D"s but I don't recall seeing precision quite that good. I suspect this is just an issue of what satellites are visible, not a receiver issue.

 

I can't imagine the Cx and CSx would perform much differently; this is a "platform" GPS, just like the VW Golf and Jetta are based on the same platform.

 

In short, I'll keep an eye on the CSx and report back but so far, I'm extremely pleased.

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This thread is simply FILLED with positive comments! Could we POSSIBLY squeeze in yet another one...? I'm certainly going to try:

 

Before buying the 60Cx, I owned three other units in about three year's time (all Garmin I might add). All of them lacked some feature or another that kept me hoping that they'd come out with the "Perfect GPSr". The 60Cx is THE GPSr I've been waiting for! It ain't perfect, but it should keep me from want ing to buy a new GPSr for at LEAST the next three years. I can't imagine them adding another feature that would make me want to buy another one.

 

I sold my (blue) Legend, kept my eMap for backup to my 60C. Now my 60C is my backup/wife's unit, and when my daughter is old enough (she's 2½ now), she can use the eMap.

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ok, I don't have the Csx, but I can talk about the 60cx.

 

I absolutely love my unit. the reception is surprisingly good, and reasonably accurate under very heavy cover, I like the formfactor and the workflows are intuitive. The autorouting is awesome.

 

There are some features/improvements I would like to see, and some I hope we will, such as the magellan way of storing waypoints/routes/tracks on the uSD card. I'd also like to see the device be able to read gpx files of caches generated by geocaching.com (and have all of it on the device so I don't have to carry a PDA).

 

FWIW, I'm the dood who had a hole burn into my LCD screen. I've read of other devices via google (cell phones, pdas, cameras) that have had this happen. It's very rare but when you think about how many billions of LCD screens are produced, it happens. Garmins response was so good, it really went a long way to keeping me as a future customer.

 

anyway, my 2 cents. HTH!

 

Randy

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I am VERY happy with my 60CSx. I have used it to autoroute, on the plane, hiking in canyons and in tree cover. I have heard of some issues but havent seen any for my uses.

 

My only issues are enhacement requests such as I would like the ability to store more geocaching info such as the last 4 hides and complete hint data.

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I am VERY happy with my 60CSx. I have used it to autoroute, on the plane, hiking in canyons and in tree cover. I have heard of some issues but havent seen any for my uses.

 

My only issues are enhacement requests such as I would like the ability to store more geocaching info such as the last 4 hides and complete hint data.

 

Cisco Hiker,

 

I'm new to geocaching but I'm trying to find a way to go paperless and "PDAless".

 

It seems to me, with a bit of planning, the hint & info text for any given cache could be limited to the number of characters allowed by the 60CSx. (I believe it's 44 characters per line, 2 lines + title...help me out here?)

 

If I can think of one improvement to Geocaching.com, it would be to add an optional "60Cx friendly" waypoint file; people would have to enter text with the above limitations. I gather software like GSAK is designed as a go-between the completely unlimited data on the net (and about each cache) and the very limiting waypoint file formats a GPSr can handle.

 

Thoughts?

 

You can bet when I start building caches, I'll be making a "60' friendly" info section. :blink:

 

Chris

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Count me in as a very satisfied 60CSx customer. I use mine primarily for hiking and biking and the CSx is a great performer. I have also tested my CSx side-by-side against my Nuvi 350 in my car and was very surprised to discover the CSx is just as good as the Nuvi when routing and navigating on the roads.

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Well, good reading, being unhappy with Thales and the MeriPlat, this is the unit I have been mulling over..guess I will sit on the fence a little longer... from bad to worse or at least to another "bad" is not what I want when spending this kind of $$$.

Edited by Dirtnapper
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I love my 60CSx...quite the step up from my GPS 12MAP and GPS 45.

 

AND, I really really like Garmin's customer support and their commitment to keep coming out with firmware updates to fix glitches & offer new features. Those things alone will keep me a Garmin customer.

 

I have to say, that a lot of the problems folks seem so upset with are either features I don't use/need right now, or posted by folks with their first GPS expecting exact positions & elevations. For those of you in this category, try a 12 year old single channel unit and compare that to your new 60CSx. It might help to understand history and also how far things have come in that time. :huh:

 

I keep reading the horror stories, mine should be here in the next few days.

 

So how does yours work? I wish we had polls here (or if we do I wish I was smart enough to figure out how to do one.)

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The following is my opinion. The differences between the 60CS and 60CSx are not worth the extra money. In comparing the pros and cons of both of these units, I wish I kept my 60CS. So if anyone were to ask me, “which one I would recommend?” I would tell them to get the 60CS.

 

Why? Because all the features on the 60CS work, and it costs less. The improvements of the 60CSx, minus the flaws, minus the extra expense, places it in second….

 

I’m ok with my 60CSx, but I enjoyed my 60CS much more.

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I would like my 60csx a lot more if it did not wander so much when I stand still.

 

Also it really neads some SD card management.

 

I think the SD card should be able to hold the tracks

 

It should be able to hold waypoints and routes too.

 

It needs to have the ability to store waypoints and tracks in the SD card and to pull waypoints and tracks from the SD card at will. Same with routes.

 

Currently the SD card stores maps only by default.

 

And if you run beta software you can store your active track in the SD card.

 

You can not do anything with it at that point. THere is no way to bring it back in or reference it.

I am not even sure how to read it from the garmin software once it is stored on the SD card?

 

You can use a an optional POI loader to load POI in the SD card. But there is no way to delete the same POI from the SD card. Once they are there I guess you are stuck with them as the Garmin POI Loader will not delete them or remove them it just loads them. THe Garmin Mapsource software does not use POIs so it will not read them from the card of delete them either or write them out there.

 

There just seems to be a real lack of thought on the part of Garmin when it comes to the SD card.

I am using a 1 GB SD card and there is lots of room but what can I do with it? Just store maps (and POIs that I can not delete).

 

I am hoping they decide to let you copy tracks and waypoints and routes in and out of the SD to the 60csx or just be able to use the tracks (display them) on the 60csx at will from the SD card.

 

I would like to be able to store tracks on the SD for trails and load them to make them active while on a trail in the woods so I know where I am going on the trail. right now you can only load 20 tracks. Very limiting. especially when you have 1GB or less free memory just waiting to be used for something other than Map data. THe Topo maps do not include trails in local California Parks. So I like to make trails using tracks. But you can only have 20!

 

So things it needs real bad:

 

Flexible SD card management, copy in and out of it to make it possible to store additional tracks, waypoints, poi, Maps on the SD and be able to copy them into active memory and use them or just reference them on the SD card. Right now it just stores maps and the undeletable POIs from the POI loader.

 

More accurate, less wandering COMPASS when you get within 100 feet of a cache.

 

Would be nice if the NIHM bateries were able to be Charged IN the unit.

It is a real pain to have to remove the carrying case, remove the back

take the batteries out, charge them and put it all back together again.

It should be rechargeable in the unit like a CELL phone, with the option of quick replacement of a battery while on a long hike.

 

Also it would have been nice if the SD card was plugable, be able to incert and remove easily. Currrently you have to remove the cover, remove the batteries, flip it up and slide it out. I hate that it is under the batterys.

 

I get 8 to 10 hours of use not the 20 advertized.

 

In Summary

It is an OK unit. I am disapointed in the accuracy when not standing in a clear field.

In the woods it is good for hiking but not for finding a geocache.

It needs SD management software in the unit.

It could use a slightly bigger screen.

 

Hoping that some of this can be/will be fixed in software. (noit the screen size though).

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Currently the SD card stores maps only by default.

 

And if you run beta software you can store your active track in the SD card.

 

You can not do anything with it at that point. THere is no way to bring it back in or reference it.

I am not even sure how to read it from the garmin software once it is stored on the SD card?

 

If your running the beta firmware you can put your gps into USB mass storage mode. go into the setup menu, interface, and select usb mass storage. now your PC will see your 60csx as a external drive, and you can get the files off the card. The only way I have found to get it out of this mode was to unplug the USB wire from the back, then the gpsr restarts.

Edited by hogrod
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I like my 60CSx just fine. Best handheld GPSr I've owned to date (and I've owned more then a few). Some folks here make it sound like they were "forced" to buy a product they don't like, and somehow it's Garmin's fault that they didn't do their homework. For crying out loud, Ebay it if you're so dissatisfied.

Edited by CbusRog
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Currently the SD card stores maps only by default.

 

And if you run beta software you can store your active track in the SD card.

 

You can not do anything with it at that point. THere is no way to bring it back in or reference it.

I am not even sure how to read it from the garmin software once it is stored on the SD card?

 

If your running the beta firmware you can put your gps into USB mass storage mode. go into the setup menu, interface, and select usb mass storage. now your PC will see your 60csx as a external drive, and you can get the files off the card. The only way I have found to get it out of this mode was to unplug the USB wire from the back, then the gpsr restarts.

 

You can get out of the USB mass storage mode by using the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon in your System Tray to "eject" the unit, as you would any other USB mass storage device. The unit will then restart, without having to unplug the USB cable.

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I love my 60csx and is much better than what I had before.

 

I ran and took it with me last week (some hills). I found, for walking/running, you are best to turn off autocalibrate the altimeter and turn on track by time 1second so you have good resolution on your relatively slow track.

 

One thing that did happen..mid run my track started over? My run showed up as two tracks. Not happy about that and I wasn't pushing any buttons at that time.

 

Anyone have any insight about this?

 

The 60csx is my 7th handheld and is so much better than anything else I have owned. Buy one and enjoy it rather than be perplexed with trivial issues.

Regards,

John.

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The 60csx is my 7th handheld and is so much better than anything else I have owned. Buy one and enjoy it rather than be perplexed with trivial issues.

Regards,

John.

\If it's like the 60CS, when you lose sat contact or turn the unit or track record on/off, the track log gets split into a new section. You can just join them in Mapsource

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"you can just join them in Mapsource"

 

It is possible but not easily, I wish they had a combine these tracks button.

 

If you're running an older version of Mapsource, I would recommend that you upgrade to version 6.10 or higher (I think it's 6.11 now), which has a join tracks tool. You basically pick the join tracks item from the menus, with one track selected from the list, and point the cursor at the beginning or end of the next track you want to join it to. If you have a long trip with several interruptions, you can join them into a single track very quickly with this tool.

 

Keith

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I keep reading the horror stories, mine should be here in the next few days.

 

So how does yours work? I wish we had polls here (or if we do I wish I was smart enough to figure out how to do one.)

 

Like it? No. Love it? NO. In lust with it? YES YES YES YES! Fantastic after 2 months of field use.

Edited by Mr. & Mrs. Lighteye
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Am I the only one here with the crazy altimeter readings and plots?

 

Ah, no, there is a looonnngg thread about it.

 

Whitecrow...linkety link please? My ONLY beef has been the compass having to be recalibrated a couple of times a day when in super heavy tree cover, or letting the unit dangle and spin around my neck on my lanyard.

Edited by Mr. & Mrs. Lighteye
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