An Open Letter To Groundspeak

[+Snoogans]

Okay, I know a growing number of folks who are just ticked to the rafters about the reactionary archival of caches that happened as fallout from GW4.

 

If you were not AT GW4, or are not an Admin/Mod of this website, you have no business responding to this thread. There are a half dozen other complaint threads for you to spray your venom on.

 

I personally find the reactionary archival of caches to be the most disgraceful act I've ever witnessed on this site. It's bad business plain and simple no matter the offense. There are better ways to make a change in logging requirements and guideline interpretation than what we have witnessed this week.

 

At least two of the folks who helped sell over $18,000 worth of Groundspeak merchandise at GW4 had multiple caches archived and locked. This in some cases blocked legit finds from folks who were in town caching and hit those caches at their actual location. Way to treat your unpaid volunteers. Jolly good thanks from GC.

 

Am I condoning any of these practices? The answer is No, but there are stories to be told that won't be heard unless the forum heavies back off and let people (who were actually there) come here to say their piece and do so without getting pounced on by the thought police.

 

Keep in mind that there were Groundspeak lackeys all over at GW4 and their silence at GW3 & GW4 lent tacit approval to these practices. Where was the outrage when the event was going on? Why wasn't a RULE put in place after GW3? must resist the urge to cluck

 

Please back off and let the folks who are MOST affected come foreword to speak their mind. Mmm'kayyy?

[+Mopar]

I won't comment on the topic of the post itself but......

If you want to write a letter to Groundspeak and not have anyone but them reply, you should email it to them, not post it in a forum where every topic is open for discussion by every user of the website.

[+Snoogans]

I won't comment on the topic of the post itself but......

If you want to write a letter to Groundspeak and not have anyone but them reply, you should email it to them, not post it in a forum where every topic is open for discussion by every user of the website.

 

That's why I said "please."

 

I most likely won't be responding to anyone else who wasn't there or isn't a Mod/Admin on this site.

Edited June 4, 2006 by Snoogans

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I must respond only because you said not to.

 

Oh wait, I fall into one of your exception clauses by being a moderator (just not in this part of the forums). Darn

 

The guidelines address these issues already, you're just choosing to read them to suit your own wishes. Pocket caches are the same as moving caches: They aren't in the same location for the 3 months required by the cache permanance guideline. Once you place a cache it is expected to stay put. Moving it to the nearest event (or one thousands of miles away) is not remotely within the spirit of this game. Caches that don't meet the guidelines are archived everyday. Why should these get an exception?

If I help sell $18,000 worth of Groundspeak merchandise, do I get a free pass to hide a cache on an active railroad line in a National Park? It doesn't matter if you have one find or a thousand, you must follow the guidelines like everyone else. Etc, etc, etc...

[+denali7]

wow.

i agree with mopar. GW does bring people together.

[+HoustonControl]

So much for the forum heavies backing off....

[+New England n00b]

So much for the forum heavies backing off....

What? So far the only comments have been from a moderator ('allowed'), and two (now 3, with me) people thinking that posting a thread in an open forum would be less effective than emailing them.

 

Since it is Saturday evening, I don't expect an immediate response anyway, so this is kinda silly. Leaving it foment over the weekend and expecting only a limited group to respond?

 

Snoogans, if I were you, I'd lock this until Monday, 7am Pacific time.

[+Snoogans]

I must respond only because you said not to.

 

Oh wait, I fall into one of your exception clauses by being a moderator (just not in this part of the forums). Darn

 

The guidelines address these issues already, you're just choosing to read them to suit your own wishes. Pocket caches are the same as moving caches: They aren't in the same location for the 3 months required by the cache permanance guideline. Once you place a cache it is expected to stay put. Moving it to the nearest event (or one thousands of miles away) is not remotely within the spirit of this game. Caches that don't meet the guidelines are archived everyday. Why should these get an exception?

If I help sell $18,000 worth of Groundspeak merchandise, do I get a free pass to hide a cache on an active railroad line in a National Park? It doesn't matter if you have one find or a thousand, you must follow the guidelines like everyone else. Etc, etc, etc...

 

My point is only that things could have been handled better and the fallout has extended beyond the scope of the attendees of GW4.

 

Duplicate caches that ParkerPlus brings to events as temps were archived as well leaving the real, perfectly good, caches as geotrash until they can be picked up. He wasn't AT GW4. He is just an outstanding member of our community who brings a lot of fun with him to our events. He has furthered the cause of geocaching with me in taking the Houston Metro Area Park Directors Meeting on several of his temp hunts which in turn opened up the entire area around Houston for caching in parks with approval. He deserved a warning at MOST if this is to be the NEW ERA of cache logging rules.

 

Let's stop being such BLIND rule followers and open our eyes to the BIGGER ISSUE.

[+cudlecub]

I was there and had hopes of attending more of the "pre-events." The theft of 2 mountain bikes our first night in Dallas set the tone for our stay. It was a week of frustration from the loss of bikes, heat, poison ivy covered 1/1's, distance we were from the park (our own fault) and what seemed like a lack of planning for the event itself. If not for the reassurance that this wasn't a typical Geo-Woodstock, I probably wouldn't attend another but some of the fault is my own for staying so far out from the park as well as not taking the bikes into the room for safer keeping.

 

Some of the physical caches we found have now been archived with owner notes saying logs past May 1 will be deleted. I don't understand why that was stated on the cache page when we found the cache with a log sheet with many names on it going months prior to the date they specified. One such cache was the 300th find for one of our new found friends from Maine. I hope his legit find will stand as photos were taken for him to remember the moment. We also found a few caches with the infameous DRR in Oklahoma and Arkansas with fresh logs and an obviously new container. Maybe this is a new trend? I have respect for the cachers involved in the record run and feel such a run is indeed possible in the right area. We just couldn't get on the right track ourselves. My hats off to those involved in the TX run.

 

We travelled with the anticipation of more than the 403 finds we had for the trip but it was really about the numbers in another way for us. The number of cachers met, friends made, miles travelled, bikes stolen, and laughs shared. The event was made worthwhile by the people we travelled with, fellow cachers we met, those we cached with while in the area and the caches placed by so many cachers in the various states we travelled across.

 

We know to get close to the happenings for future Geo-Woodstocks so we can truely experience the event. Thanks to all involved in the organization of GW4. I can't say it was an enjoyable experience for us but we made the most of the week and do appreciate all the work that went into the event and caches we found.

[+Team Cotati]

I won't comment on the topic of the post itself but......

If you want to write a letter to Groundspeak and not have anyone but them reply, you should email it to them, not post it in a forum where every topic is open for discussion by every user of the website.

 

Right on Dude!!!

[+Audion64]

When I can tell you how to log or not log caches... then and only then, can you tell me when and where to post replies in a public forum.

[+Snoogans]

I was there and had hopes of attending more of the "pre-events." The theft of 2 mountain bikes our first night in Dallas set the tone for our stay. It was a week of frustration from the loss of bikes, heat, poison ivy covered 1/1's, distance we were from the park (our own fault) and what seemed like a lack of planning for the event itself. If not for the reassurance that this wasn't a typical Geo-Woodstock, I probably wouldn't attend another but some of the fault is my own for staying so far out from the park as well as not taking the bikes into the room for safer keeping.

 

Some of the physical caches we found have now been archived with owner notes saying logs past May 1 will be deleted. I don't understand why that was stated on the cache page when we found the cache with a log sheet with many names on it going months prior to the date they specified. One such cache was the 300th find for one of our new found friends from Maine. I hope his legit find will stand as photos were taken for him to remember the moment. We also found a few caches with the infameous DRR in Oklahoma and Arkansas with fresh logs and an obviously new container. Maybe this is a new trend? I have respect for the cachers involved in the record run and feel such a run is indeed possible in the right area. We just couldn't get on the right track ourselves. My hats off to those involved in the TX run.

 

We travelled with the anticipation of more than the 403 finds we had for the trip but it was really about the numbers in another way for us. The number of cachers met, friends made, miles travelled, bikes stolen, and laughs shared. The event was made worthwhile by the people we travelled with, fellow cachers we met, those we cached with while in the area and the caches placed by so many cachers in the various states we travelled across.

 

We know to get close to the happenings for future Geo-Woodstocks so we can truely experience the event. Thanks to all involved in the organization of GW4. I can't say it was an enjoyable experience for us but we made the most of the week and do appreciate all the work that went into the event and caches we found.

 

Thank you for responding. Everyone's experience was different. Sorry yours included a theft.

 

I've bolded the parts that prove my point. This is why an email wouldn't suffice. Are you listening now GC?

Edited June 4, 2006 by Snoogans

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

He deserved a warning at MOST if this is to be the NEW ERA of cache logging rules.

 

Let's stop being such BLIND rule followers and open our eyes to the BIGGER ISSUE.

 

New era of caching rules? The rules have long since stated that moving and temporary caches are not approved and that caches that violate the rules of Groundspeak will be archived at their discretion.

 

The bigger issue is the willingness of some people to violate the rules of this listing site, and refusing to recognize that they have rules/ guidelines (whatever you want to call them) for cache placement on here. Where your views of the sport differ from this site, you are free to place such caches elsewhere. But like everyone else, you need to go by their rules/ guidelines for caches on this site if you list caches on this site. There are terms of service to this site. You, me, everyone else agrees to them when we use this site. GC.com is within their right to hold you to that TOS, and to archive any caches that violate those TOS.

[+Doc-Dean]

This thread has already degenerated from it stated purpose.

 

I guess the white robe over-rules common decency to have a conversation or to refrain as matter of courtesy.

 

For the record my opinion on pocket caches will remain my own, however the manner in which it was done was unacceptable.

 

I hope the TPTB realize the pandora's box they've opened. I wonder what the next issue the brain trust of the forums will undertake? How about micros (or spew as I've heard it called)... Let's start a few threads about how they are unfair, unrightous and not "how the game should be played" and if we whine about it long and loud enough, TPTB will again make a sweeping change based on input from less than 1% of the people who play the game.

[+Snoogans]

This thread has already degenerated from it stated purpose.

 

I disagree 'ol buddy.... A dozen more stories like cuddle cub's and coments like yours is sure to rub their nose in it.

 

I will not be responding to people who weren't there or are not mods/admins.

 

The thought police can scream until they're blue in the face. The truth of the TPTB's actions will out on this thread if ever slowly....

Edited June 4, 2006 by Snoogans

[+Kealia]

Snoogans,

 

If you really wanted this to be an open letter to GS, I agree it should have gone via email and asked them to come in here and post thier thoughts. You know you're going to get responses in here.

 

The other option would be to have had your OP, then lock the thread asking GS to unlock it when they are ready to answer. Now, this thread has/will become just like the others.

 

I've always respected you (I think you know that), but I think this thread is overkill based on the others that are still going on.

[+Snoogans]

I've always respected you (I think you know that), but I think this thread is overkill based on the others that are still going on.

 

THIS thread is distinctly different from the other complaint threads and you of all people should realize that.

 

The comments made by folks that weren't there or are not admins/mods on this site are the overkill and you know that too.

[Keystone]

The comments made by folks that weren't there or are not admins/mods on this site are the overkill and you know that too.

Sorry, but you cannot dictate who is allowed to respond to your public forum thread. So please quit doing that. It only distracts from the substantive point of your thread.

[+Faith the Aquariaqueen]

Sorry, I am not following the guidelines of the original poster, however, after going to my first event and not knowing about some of the caches that were available, ie, pocket caches--who knew one was supposed to ask someone if they were holding something in their pocket??? perverted, if you ask me, or personal caches---people were a cache, what nonsense is that? These were only useful to only those who knew about them, I was turned off. Before I went, I had a lot of respect for the number of finds people had, and how many I had, but after that, the number means nothing to me. These people turn me off.

 

I can't get interested in going to another event.

 

I was hoping to meet those who post logs on caches in the area and putting names with faces, maybe learning some techniques, etc.....but nonsense caches....come on, if you're that bored with the hobby, find another.

[+arkansas stickerdude]

OK I was there at GW4 and I had the honor to meet Snoogans (THANKS). All the CRAP going on here is STUPID. GW4 was the most fun that I've had in a group of close to or exceding 1200 people. On Pocket caches I've NEVER seen anything in the RULES on it, also shouldn't it be up to the event cordinator as to if there should be pocket caches. If the cordinator agrees that its ok for pocket caches and agrees its ok to log the event multiple times. Also THE DRR run I saw ALOT of caches signed DRR as to where the log was missing. If the log was missing and , there were a few missing logs ,they were supposed to sign the log how could it be verified that it was really found. OH YEA they signed the container so that if contested they could go back and see the DRR on the container. DUH. Arkansas during all the Gripping and MOANING that YOU people have done has lost our reveiwer which was a great person. This forum is the BIGGEST BUCNH OF CRAP I'VE EVER SEEN . My 13,10,and 9 year old kids don't whine as much as you people do. SNOOGANS sorry I've ranted but this is a bunch of crap. If this is the way GW5 will be don't expect to see me there.Who says how I'm supposed to play MY GAME. I'll play it any freakin way I want. Snoogans and all the TX people I met THANK YOU for a Great time I can not wait to meet some of you again.

[+DocDiTTo]

I know I could be reprimanded in public for responding to a public post in a public forum where the public was told not to get involved, but...

 

Why don't people carry travel bugs with them to events, rather than caches? It's what we do around here. They can be logged, and tracked, and no one cares -- not even Groundspeak. Ok, so you don't get a illegitimate bump in your smiley count, so what?

 

Play within the rules of this website, and you won't get any flak from the owners of this website. It's pretty a pretty easy concept to grasp. Well, for most of us anyway.

[+Snoogans]

The comments made by folks that weren't there or are not admins/mods on this site are the overkill and you know that too.

Sorry, but you cannot dictate who is allowed to respond to your public forum thread. So please quit doing that. It only distracts from the substantive point of your thread.

 

I've made no dictation. There are several other threads to beat the dead horse on. I just won't respond to those who insist on bringing it to THIS thread. This thread is about the folks who were affected by a rash and quite shamefully reactionary decision. It's THEIR turn to speak.

 

If you were not AT GW4, or are not an Admin/Mod of this website, you have no business responding to this thread. There are a half dozen other complaint threads for you to spray your venom on.

 

Please back off and let the folks who are MOST affected come foreword to speak their mind. Mmm'kayyy?

[+9Key]

I guess I'll stick my neck out and post here.

 

I agree with Doc Dean's post and I back Snoogans. The OP's point, as I see it, is that there was no warning to the cachers that had temp or pocket caches at the event and they should have been given a head's up before the termination. A warning would have been the professional thing to do.

 

Both temp caches and pockets caches have been done at events for several years - if the practice was to be disallowed by TPTB, why not let us know before the event so we could have done something about it.

The archival of caches seems to be purely driven from reaction in these wholly unfriendly forums.

 

Peace

[+The Herd]

I couldn't help but notice that there were a total of 3 posts stating "I will not reply to posts not from such and such" and yet...for some reason, you continued to reply. Hmm...I wonder if I'll be lucky enough to get a reply!!!!

 

Oh, wait...it's 4 now!!! "I just won't respond to those who insist on bringing it to THIS thread."

Edited June 4, 2006 by The Herd

[+Totem Clan]

Where's my marshmellows? This is gonna get hot, real quick!

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Thanks for the honesty, Faith. The earlier Geowoodstocks were apparantly about the numbers, from what I've read of them. This year's seemed to be about "How many things can we claim as finds and get away with?"

 

I don't have any problem with making a numbers run, I've been thinking of doing one myself. What I do have a problem with is claiming a record by using entirely different rules than everyone else but still calling it a geocaching record. Sorry, but this year's "record run" and the original record runs are apples and oranges.

 

Can someone explain how bringing a logbook or a duplicate of a cache to an event for people to log works? You've never been to Iraq but you can now claim to have found a cache there because the cache was brought to this event in Texas? I watched the Amazing Race on TV, does that mean I travelled around the world too? Gimme a break!

[+Mudfrog]

By now i would say it's safe to say that most everyone agrees that these caches ended up not being within GC guidelines and therefore they could be archived by the site. I'm not sure if archiving these in this abrupt manner was the right thing to do or not, but what i am thinking here is that GC.com was trying to, as Barney Fife would say, "nip this problem in the bud". In other words, getting people's attention and trying to get this game back on track.

 

Chicken and I have enjoyed the heck out of Parker Plus' caches. The temporary ones that have shown up at Events are very creative and great fun to do. I do hope to continue seeing them at Events, but people who find them just have to remember that these are temporary caches and therefore not loggable as finds!

 

Oh, and one last thing, I'll bet that these caches can be easily UNarchived by a reviewer once they are put back to original condition in their original hiding place and with any illegitimate logs deleted.

[+The Herd]

Where's my marshmellows? This is gonna get hot, real quick!

 

I don't have marshmellows...but I do have POPCORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Want some???

[+Totem Clan]

Where's my marshmellows? This is gonna get hot, real quick!

 

I don't have marshmellows...but I do have POPCORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Want some???

 

Thanks, it's getting to hot to the stand by the fire anyway.

[ParentsofSAM]

Ok I have a question:

 

Prior to May 27, 2006 were pocket and temp caches allowed to be logged at events?

 

If the answer is 'No' then the people had warning that the pocket and temp caches they had were against the guidelines and they ran the risk of being caught.

 

If the answer is 'Yes' then the people that had the listing disabled and locked, have a legitimate gripe and should be heard out. I doubt that GS is going to change its position on it but the cache owners should get an apology.

 

If the answer is 'No, but we really did not enforce it' the cache owners get the same answer as just 'No'. But it would seem that the mass archiving did come from the uproar in the forums. But none the less GS was within their full right to archive the caches and the cache owner should have known they were living on the edge.

 

Now if you are a cache owner and your cache was pocketed and taken to an event without your consent then that is a different story, altogether.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I guess I'll stick my neck out and post here.

 

I agree with Doc Dean's post and I back Snoogans. The OP's point, as I see it, is that there was no warning to the cachers that had temp or pocket caches at the event and they should have been given a head's up before the termination. A warning would have been the professional thing to do.

 

Both temp caches and pockets caches have been done at events for several years - if the practice was to be disallowed by TPTB, why not let us know before the event so we could have done something about it.

The archival of caches seems to be purely driven from reaction in these wholly unfriendly forums.

 

Peace

Sorry 9key, but temporary caches are not permitted on the website. Neither are moving caches. Since these caches somehow made it through the review process but were later discovered to have violated the guidelines, Groundspeak had every right to archive them. Maybe some of these caches were legit before GWIV, but their owners decided to change them from what was originally published so that they no longer met the guidelines. What happens when a cache owner decided to turn a missing cache into a virtual? It gets archived since the new form does not meet the guidelines.

[+Teach2Learn]

The comments made by folks that weren't there or are not admins/mods on this site are the overkill and you know that too.

Sorry, but you cannot dictate who is allowed to respond to your public forum thread. So please quit doing that. It only distracts from the substantive point of your thread.

 

As others like Keystone are responding...

 

Although I respect Snoogans, these are forums under the heading "general geocaching discussions." Those not in attendance can still have insight and maintain the right to their opinions even if you choose to believe otherwise. Couldn't an e-mail have taken care of it? Otherwise, it may appear (even if it;s not the case) that you just want those attending GW to agree with your view and post that viewpoint to form a contingent against Groundspeak's decision.

 

However, I do also agree with Snoogans point/9-key's response concerning a need to remind cachers (even non-forumites if possible) of guidelines concerning pockets/temps before mega-events.

[+The Herd]

Where's my marshmellows? This is gonna get hot, real quick!

 

I don't have marshmellows...but I do have POPCORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Want some???

 

Thanks, it's getting to hot to the stand by the fire anyway.

 

You are VERY welcome...but...could you get me some water, I'm running out of breath trying to keep up here!

 

Oh, man...look, two people having a "friendly time" in the forums!!!!!!!

[+9Key]

This year's seemed to be about "How many things can we claim as finds and get away with?"

That's out of line.

[+Totem Clan]

Where's my marshmellows? This is gonna get hot, real quick!

 

I don't have marshmellows...but I do have POPCORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Want some???

 

Thanks, it's getting to hot to the stand by the fire anyway.

 

You are VERY welcome...but...could you get me some water, I'm running out of breath trying to keep up here!

 

Oh, man...look, two people having a "friendly time" in the forums!!!!!!!

 

"friendly time" in the forums? Doesn't that violate forum ethics of guidelines or somesuch something?

 

[+9Key]

Sorry 9key, but temporary caches are not permitted on the website.

Reread my post - I don't think you understood it.

[+pghlooking]

Why are people acting like the only caches or cachers affected are the ones who went to GW4? There are caches all over the country being archieved for the same reason...they don't meet the guidlines. Sure GC took their time in enforcing the rule, but it was still a rule. Just because people have been breaking it and getting away with it doesn't make it any less of a rule.

 

Trying to make a rule that only people who were there can post is pretty petty IMHO. We all have thoughts and views on these matters and it affects everyone, not just some select few that you have singled out because they were able to attend some event. I wasn't able to attend but know of local caches that have been archieved for breaking the same rules as ones there. I think that qualifies my thoughts since it affects me the same as people that attended GW4.

[+The Herd]

Where's my marshmellows? This is gonna get hot, real quick!

 

I don't have marshmellows...but I do have POPCORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Want some???

 

Thanks, it's getting to hot to the stand by the fire anyway.

 

You are VERY welcome...but...could you get me some water, I'm running out of breath trying to keep up here!

 

Oh, man...look, two people having a "friendly time" in the forums!!!!!!!

 

"friendly time" in the forums? Doesn't that violate forum ethics of guidelines or somesuch something?

 

 

I'm sure it does, but if we just explain that we are trying to up our forum post count....it should all be ok!

[+Airmapper]

Where's my marshmellows? This is gonna get hot, real quick!

 

I don't have marshmellows...but I do have POPCORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Want some???

 

Thanks, it's getting to hot to the stand by the fire anyway.

 

You are VERY welcome...but...could you get me some water, I'm running out of breath trying to keep up here!

 

Oh, man...look, two people having a "friendly time" in the forums!!!!!!!

Mind if I join you? I have bottled water, and an asbestos shelter.

 

Edit: rewording

Edited June 4, 2006 by Airmapper

[+Totem Clan]

Where's my marshmellows? This is gonna get hot, real quick!

 

I don't have marshmellows...but I do have POPCORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Want some???

 

Thanks, it's getting to hot to the stand by the fire anyway.

 

You are VERY welcome...but...could you get me some water, I'm running out of breath trying to keep up here!

 

Oh, man...look, two people having a "friendly time" in the forums!!!!!!!

 

"friendly time" in the forums? Doesn't that violate forum ethics of guidelines or somesuch something?

 

 

I'm sure it does, but if we just explain that we are trying to up our forum post count....it should all be ok!

 

Sound good but can I just sign my monitor and up my post count that way????

[+The Herd]

Where's my marshmellows? This is gonna get hot, real quick!

 

I don't have marshmellows...but I do have POPCORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Want some???

 

Thanks, it's getting to hot to the stand by the fire anyway.

 

You are VERY welcome...but...could you get me some water, I'm running out of breath trying to keep up here!

 

Oh, man...look, two people having a "friendly time" in the forums!!!!!!!

Mind if I join you? I have bottled water, and an asbestos blanket.

 

Asbestos shelter...OH MAN, why didn't I think of that! Sure, you're welcome to join...wait...it's not my thread, I'm not supposed to be posting here....shhhhh...you didn't see me!!!

 

edited because someone decided to edit their post after I quoted them...hehe

Edited June 4, 2006 by The Herd

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Sorry 9key, but temporary caches are not permitted on the website.

Reread my post - I don't think you understood it.

It's you who misunderstand. Temporary caches have always been allowed at events. I don't agree with the practice of logging multiple attended logs to count them, but that's what people did before last weekend. At GWIV people brought published caches to be logged at the event. Those caches violated the guidelines. If you want to log one, post it on the event page, not on some cache relocated to the event site for the weekend.

[+Totem Clan]

Quick, throw on another log. I think the fires going out.

[+Teach2Learn]

Who says how I'm supposed to play MY GAME. I'll play it any freakin way I want. Snoogans and all the TX people I met THANK YOU for a Great time I can not wait to meet some of you again.

 

Oh my...I didn't realize it was your game...I thought geocaching.com was a listing service and they set the guidelines to make caching the best it could be for everyone, not just those who want to play "any way" they want because that could be dangerous. These are forums for the caching community.

 

I am sincerely glad you had a great time at GW4 and I think Snoogans has some good questions that could be addressed without the extreme emotions.

[+Airmapper]

Where's my marshmellows? This is gonna get hot, real quick!

 

I don't have marshmellows...but I do have POPCORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Want some???

 

Thanks, it's getting to hot to the stand by the fire anyway.

 

You are VERY welcome...but...could you get me some water, I'm running out of breath trying to keep up here!

 

Oh, man...look, two people having a "friendly time" in the forums!!!!!!!

Mind if I join you? I have bottled water, and an asbestos blanket.

 

Asbestos blanket...OH MAN, why didn't I think of that! Sure, you're welcome to join...wait...it's not my thread, I'm not supposed to be posting here....shhhhh...you didn't see me!!!

Oh, I had to edit my post, I meant an asbestos shelter, I thought it was rude to only protect one of us from the heat, with the shelter several of us can watch..... Oh wait, I'm not supposed to be in here either.

[+The Herd]

Quick, throw on another log. I think the fires going out.

 

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Here...I have one!!! ( ) LOG ( )

[+The Herd]

Where's my marshmellows? This is gonna get hot, real quick!

 

I don't have marshmellows...but I do have POPCORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Want some???

 

Thanks, it's getting to hot to the stand by the fire anyway.

 

You are VERY welcome...but...could you get me some water, I'm running out of breath trying to keep up here!

 

Oh, man...look, two people having a "friendly time" in the forums!!!!!!!

Mind if I join you? I have bottled water, and an asbestos blanket.

 

Asbestos blanket...OH MAN, why didn't I think of that! Sure, you're welcome to join...wait...it's not my thread, I'm not supposed to be posting here....shhhhh...you didn't see me!!!

Oh, I had to edit my post, I meant an asbestos shelter, I thought it was rude to only protect one of us from the heat, with the shelter several of us can watch..... Oh wait, I'm not supposed to be in here either.

 

Oh, you wanted to use it too??? I thought you brought it for me! Geesh..I can be SUCH a bad judge of character sometimes...ok, back into hiding!

[+Totem Clan]

Burn baby burn.....

 

If this thing gets any hotter we could roast a PIG.

[+Markwell]

OK - I've got one of these:

...but it's for the the Getting Started forum, so I *think* I can post here, right?

 

I don't really have a comment about the aspect of these caches being shut down one way or the other.

 

But if it was NOT about trying to push the envelope on what is "logable", can someone that helped organize GW4 explain to me the logic of the e-mail I got from one of the volunteers on Feb 20 2006 asking if I could send them my Project APE cache so people could log it in Texas?

 

Edited June 4, 2006 by Markwell

[+denali7]

speaking of log, a new cache greeting for use on the trails...

 

"Is that a cache in your pocket, or are you just trying to log me?"