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Why Not Log A Dnf


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It bugs me that some cachers won’t log a DNF, when clearly they Did Not Find.

 

A DNF doesn’t take away a smilely. I fact it can help you and the cache owner.

 

Example in point: I placed a kid themed cache this weekend. The container is a fairly large Rubbermaid container. It is placed on the ground, back in some bushes, without anything covering it. I did give it a good camo paint job. The cache is in a greenway in town along a sidewalk. The tree cover at the site consists of two parallel rows of trees and bushes with a small grassy area between. The cache is in the row closest to the sidewalk. Due to the leaf cover the cords are a little spotty.

Anyway, one of our friends and his wife went out looking for it. They were the first to try for it. The next day, after the FTF was claimed, the man’s wife was complaining that he got into stinging nettles while hunting for it. There are no nettles near the cache. A few days later she complained that he got into poison oak while looking again. There is no poison oak near the cache.

After talking to them we found out they were looking in the wrong row of trees. The wife said that they never log a DNF, “We don’t like them”. If they had logged one, I could have saved them a lot of grief.

 

Not only could you save yourself some grief, but if there is a problem with the cache, a DNF is a good way to alert the owner. Maybe you just can’t find it, or maybe it’s been muggled.

 

Does it hurt that much to log a DNF? Do you log your DNFs.

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Check this out. This is my cache in a parking lot of a large outdoor hunting camping store. Now look at all the finds on the three nearby caches in the same parking lot.

 

Number 1

 

Number 2

 

Number 3

 

I think if people post a DNF it will "hurt their pride". Or maybe they think that it makes them look like they don't know how to cache or something like that.

 

BTW: I posted four DNFs on my last caching adventure two days ago. I had four DNFs (two I choose not to climb for and two I could not find) and seven finds.

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It depends on the type of cache it is for me. If its a puzzle I might not log a dnf until several attempts. singles and multi's I log my First DNF and watch the cache for a while, if I can't find it a second time but others are I will likely not log it just keep looking at my leisure. and as far as micros there is only one in the area so I don't have to worry too much about them.

 

I do appreciate the dnf's on my one lonely hide because 1) they let me know that it is still well hidden and 2) for me a find is a little sweeter if it has a couple of DNF's on it.

 

bwmick

Edited by bwmick
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If I went out and searched for it but did't find it, it's a DNF.

 

Maybe it's because I entered the wrong coordinates on stage 4 of the multi. Still a DNF, my log will explain what I did.

Maybe it's because I thought I solved the puzzle but didn't. Still a DNF, my log will explain what I did. The cache owner can choose to give me a hint or not.

Maybe it's because I ran out of time. Still a DNF, my log will explain what I did.

Maybe it's because the cache is missing. Still a DNF, can't find it if it isn't there!

Maybe it's because I didn't look in the right spot. Still a DNF, my log will explain what I did.

etc...

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Logging a DNF is part of geocaching. It happens to anyone, and really says nothing about your personal skill as there can be many reasons for not finding the cache. I generally do log it, if for no other reason that I want a reminder to myself that I had tried that cache. The only time I won't log it is if I intend to go back and try it again in the near future; this generally applies to caches that are known to be exceedingly hard to find so I consider myself still in the middle of the search.

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Logging a DNF is a rite of passage, it seems. I had trouble logging DNFs as a newbie (although I did post a few within the first month of caching) since it's rehashing a possible disappointing experience.

 

DNF has nothing to do with skill or character. I've posted my share and will continue to do so. As mentioned earlier, it often helps people.

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I had trouble logging DNFs as a newbie (although I did post a few within the first month of caching) since it's rehashing a possible disappointing experience.

 

I didn't log my first few as a noob, either, but it was more of a humility thing than a pride thing. I felt like DNF was a way of telling people the cache might be missing, and I was so new and green I didn't dare make that call.

 

I log them all now. I reckon I have about a 10% DNF rate.

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I will sometime not log a DNF if I didn't find it by choice.

 

For instance there was one recently that I didn't log as a DNF because it was off in a patch of poison ivy and the only reason I didn't find (likely anyway) was that I didn't want to wade into the poison ivy. I'll go looking for it again this winter when I can get to it with less trouble. Yet on another cache that I didn't find I did log a DNF because the reason I didn't find it was that there was a new road being cut through the woods at the cache site and I turned away assuming the cache was destroyed only to find that another cacher had found it the day before.

 

In the first case the DNF didn't really affect anyone but me and might have made other people think it was missing, where in the second case I didn't want other cachers to see the same construction work I did and pass it by when it is actually there.

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I will sometime not log a DNF if I didn't find it by choice.

 

For instance there was one recently that I didn't log as a DNF because it was off in a patch of poison ivy and the only reason I didn't find (likely anyway) was that I didn't want to wade into the poison ivy. I'll go looking for it again this winter when I can get to it with less trouble. Yet on another cache that I didn't find I did log a DNF because the reason I didn't find it was that there was a new road being cut through the woods at the cache site and I turned away assuming the cache was destroyed only to find that another cacher had found it the day before.

 

In the first case the DNF didn't really affect anyone but me and might have made other people think it was missing, where in the second case I didn't want other cachers to see the same construction work I did and pass it by when it is actually there.

Sure it did. Had you posted your DNF you would have warned others about the poison ivy. For the second one, your DNF would have told people to go past the construction.

 

Because you didn't post your DNF's, someone else may not have known there was poison ivy there and someone else may have seen the construction and turned around.

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I will sometime not log a DNF if I didn't find it by choice.

 

For instance there was one recently that I didn't log as a DNF because it was off in a patch of poison ivy and the only reason I didn't find (likely anyway) was that I didn't want to wade into the poison ivy. I'll go looking for it again this winter when I can get to it with less trouble. Yet on another cache that I didn't find I did log a DNF because the reason I didn't find it was that there was a new road being cut through the woods at the cache site and I turned away assuming the cache was destroyed only to find that another cacher had found it the day before.

 

In the first case the DNF didn't really affect anyone but me and might have made other people think it was missing, where in the second case I didn't want other cachers to see the same construction work I did and pass it by when it is actually there.

 

This is a case where I really would appreciate seeing a DNF before I set off on a cache quest...If I knew it was surrounded by poison ivy I would not try the cache.

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I had trouble logging DNFs as a newbie (although I did post a few within the first month of caching) since it's rehashing a possible disappointing experience.

 

I didn't log my first few as a noob, either, but it was more of a humility thing than a pride thing. I felt like DNF was a way of telling people the cache might be missing, and I was so new and green I didn't dare make that call.

 

I log them all now. I reckon I have about a 10% DNF rate.

My very first attempt at this activity we know as geocaching, was a DNF.

I posted it and I got a prompt reply from the owner offering a hint if I wanted it. I thanked her, but declined, telling her I wanted to find it on my own.

I went back a day or two later and made the find. The rest is history. I just hit 600 and I'm still having fun and still posting DNF's.

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We didn't log a DNF on a cache upon returning from our trip to Texas. When I went to the cache page there were about 6 DNFs - the owner had disabled and was very apologetic, saying the cache had been checked just prior to the event (this in a preserve near the GW4 venue). In any case, in spite of my desire to keep track of my own caching history, it felt like logging another DNF would be a sort of 'piling on'. So I didn't. A first, I log 'em all, normally.

 

123 (a nice number 123 123 123) about %5. Once, quite a while back, I went back and looked at those caches which we'd DNFed, and found it about 50%/50%. Half the time they're gone, half the time we missed 'em.

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We've learned to be sparing with DNFs. Cache owners sometimes overreact and conclude that the cache is missing if we post a DNF. It's not missing; we're just blind. Then there's the community effect of DNfs--we were unable to find a well-camouflaged micro hidden amongst signal-confounding trees in a mosquito-infested riverbed. We DNFed it with the intention of never returning. Cachers from the next town over, 75 miles away, saw this as a competitive challenge and piled into their car in the middle of the night to hunt (and find) the cache.

 

So restricting our DNFs to caches that we've thoroughly searched for and are almost certain are gone is an energy-conservation measure B)

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I have never logged a DNF and I never will.

If I think the cache is missing, I'll e-mail the owner.

The last three caches that I couldn't find were:

* A micro hidden in the woods, with a difficulty of 4. With a note that if you log 2 DNF's on it and then ask, the owner will give you a hint.

* A cache page that said "Feel free to post your own coordinates. I tried six times and this was the best I got." No hints were given. The cache owner mentioned prickers and pine trees The area was also covered with poison ivy.

* A cache that, on my third attempt (for a difficulty 1), I called the cache owner for a hint. She couldn't remember where she hid it, she thought it was under a log, but didn't know which one. (It was a Mini M&M container.) The previous finder was only able to succeed by calling someone else who had found it and being given exact instructions. On the next attempt, I did find it.

Why should I tell any of these hiders that I couldn't find their caches? They apparently don't want them found.

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In my current NOOB state, I'm sorry, but I might be missing the point of a "DNF" log entry. I have my flame suit on if you want to turn the heat up on me.

 

I will not make a DNF log entry unless I have given up on finding a specific cache. There have been one or two caches where I have had to return a second or third time to find the cache and found it. The first time, maybe I didn't bring enough information about the cache (printed out cache web page with hints and logs), maybe it was too hot to spend a half hour looking for a cache (Arizona this time of year .. it's too HOT), or too many muggles or security around to do a good search of the area. This could be considered a DNF. Why would I log these DNFs?

 

There have also been a few caches I've tracked down and I did not even like the area around where the cache was hidden, say a lamp post in a Wal-Mart parking lot, I didn't want to waste my time so I just "walked on". Would this be considered a DNF?

Edited by Trizumi
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The question seems to be at what point a DNF is appropriate. I think most people would agree that if you perform a thorough search for a cache and fail to find that cache, it constitutes a DNF. However, this is where the grey area begins to appear.

 

Is it a DNF if you get to ground zero but don't have enough time to perform a thorough search, so you abandon it to return when you have some more time to spend? I believe that the answer to this is "maybe". I won't burden the discussion with why I think it's a maybe.

 

Is it a DNF if you decide to go after a string of caches, and when you get to the parking lot nearest the cache you decide that you're not going to go after the cache for one reason or another? Again, I think this is a "maybe".

 

Is it a DNF if you decide to go after a cache but change your mind before arriving at the parking lot nearest the cache? In my opinion, it could be, but usually isn't.

 

Is it a DNF if you decide to go caching in a general area, but you didn't go to the location of a particular cache? I would say no.

 

If anyone would like me to elaborate on my "maybe" responses, I'll be happy to. However, I feel that most people can answer that question themselves.

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In my current NOOB state, I'm sorry, but I might be missing the point of a "DNF" log entry. I have my flame suit on if you want to turn the heat up on me.

 

I will not make a DNF log entry unless I have given up on finding a specific cache. There have been one or two caches where I have had to return a second or third time to find the cache and found it. The first time, maybe I didn't bring enough information about the cache (printed out cache web page with hints and logs), maybe it was too hot to spend a half hour looking for a cache (Arizona this time of year .. it's too HOT), or too many muggles or security around to do a good search of the area. This could be considered a DNF. Why would I log these DNFs?

 

There have also been a few caches I've tracked down and I did not even like the area around where the cache was hidden, say a lamp post in a Wal-Mart parking lot, I didn't want to waste my time so I just "walked on". Would this be considered a DNF?

 

You arrived at GZ and looked, then you did not find it. Whether the cache is gone, you didn't have enough info, or you decided not to retrieve the cache you did not find it. I would write in my log the reasons why; PI, choose not to retrieve, didn't have all the cache page info, to hot and I gave up, etc....

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Here's how I log:

Found cache = Found it (duh!)

Aborted at parking area (lack of time, bad weather, etc.) = Note

Got to posted coords (+/-50') and didn't find cache = DNF

Got to posted coords and saw cache but didn't sign log there = Note

 

That's how I log 'em- No matter what I do or how close I get, the cache owner still gets a log from me saying that I was near there (and if I didn't find/log the cache for whatever reason, I'll be back!)

 

Happy Caching!

Jeff

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Here's how I log:

Found cache = Found it (duh!)

Aborted at parking area (lack of time, bad weather, etc.) = Note

Got to posted coords (+/-50') and didn't find cache = DNF

Got to posted coords and saw cache but didn't sign log there = Note

 

That's how I log 'em- No matter what I do or how close I get, the cache owner still gets a log from me saying that I was near there (and if I didn't find/log the cache for whatever reason, I'll be back!)

 

Happy Caching!

Jeff

 

Nice summary!

 

Since I travel a lot, I don't usually have the luxury of returning to a cache site to look again, so every visit gets a DNF, note, or Fount It! log.

 

As a cache owner, I REALLY appreciate every DNF, Note, and Found It! log. I've had to replace three out of our 35 caches due to them being stolen, and it would have been a long time before I knew there was a problem unless someone had the courtesy to log a DNF.

 

Notes are another way to add to a cache history. Again, as a cache owner, I'd certainly like to know how many folks are at least attempting my caches.

 

I like the Leprechauns' idea of a DNF bookmark list. In my spare time, I'll get one set up for our account as well.

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Sure you may intend to come back tomorrow for another search but for now, you didnt find the cache. You ran out of gas while on your way to the cache site and never made it, did you find the cache, NOPE. The cache was surrounded by poison ivy so you chose not to grab it, hhmmm NO FIND! You can come up with a ton of reasons why you didn't find a cache. They can be very good reasons too, but the fact still remains,,, you didn't find the cache!

 

DNF = Did Not Find

 

It's not a hard concept to grasp and it's certainly not a bad mark on your geocaching report card. Log the DNF when this happens! :)

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We always log our DNFs for the exact same reason we log our finds-- it's an experience we had and we ant to document it! GC.com offers a such a great service by allowing you to list the caches you've logged by Found, Didn't Find, Wrote Note, etc.... by not logging DNFs you're not getting the benefit of your membership.

 

Also, logging DNFs helps other cachers!

 

You can see our DNF milestones in our profile :)

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We always log our DNFs for the exact same reason we log our finds-- it's an experience we had and we ant to document it! GC.com offers a such a great service by allowing you to list the caches you've logged by Found, Didn't Find, Wrote Note, etc.... by not logging DNFs you're not getting the benefit of your membership.

 

Also, logging DNFs helps other cachers!

 

You can see our DNF milestones in our profile :D

 

Sure you may intend to come back tomorrow for another search but for now, you didnt find the cache. You ran out of gas while on your way to the cache site and never made it, did you find the cache, NOPE. The cache was surrounded by poison ivy so you chose not to grab it, hhmmm NO FIND! You can come up with a ton of reasons why you didn't find a cache. They can be very good reasons too, but the fact still remains,,, you didn't find the cache!

 

DNF = Did Not Find

 

It's not a hard concept to grasp and it's certainly not a bad mark on your geocaching report card. Log the DNF when this happens! :)

You both looked at my All Of The Cool Cachers Log DNF's Here, but didn't log a DNF. Who cares if you live zillions of miles away and haven't found the time to drive up to Oregon to find it? You didn't find the cache!

 

(You KNOW I'm just playing & joking, right? It would still be cool to see some more out-of-state DNFs on my cache, though...) :D

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It's very simple.

 

People are VERY worried about hurting their ego. When they log a DNF, they feel it hurts their ego, so most cachers do not log DNF's.

 

The funny thing about this is that almost no cachers I've talked to who refuse to DNF will admit it's about their ego. After all, it hurts your ego to admit that you are worried about your ego! :)

Edited by GrnXnham
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We always log our DNFs for the exact same reason we log our finds-- it's an experience we had and we ant to document it! GC.com offers a such a great service by allowing you to list the caches you've logged by Found, Didn't Find, Wrote Note, etc.... by not logging DNFs you're not getting the benefit of your membership.

 

Also, logging DNFs helps other cachers!

 

You can see our DNF milestones in our profile :D

 

Sure you may intend to come back tomorrow for another search but for now, you didnt find the cache. You ran out of gas while on your way to the cache site and never made it, did you find the cache, NOPE. The cache was surrounded by poison ivy so you chose not to grab it, hhmmm NO FIND! You can come up with a ton of reasons why you didn't find a cache. They can be very good reasons too, but the fact still remains,,, you didn't find the cache!

 

DNF = Did Not Find

 

It's not a hard concept to grasp and it's certainly not a bad mark on your geocaching report card. Log the DNF when this happens! :D

You both looked at my All Of The Cool Cachers Log DNF's Here, but didn't log a DNF. Who cares if you live zillions of miles away and haven't found the time to drive up to Oregon to find it? You didn't find the cache!

 

(You KNOW I'm just playing & joking, right? It would still be cool to see some more out-of-state DNFs on my cache, though...) :antenna:

 

Woo! Just logged a DNF on your cache! Hopefully nobody gets on my case for padding my DNF count though. Despite what anyone might say about me, it's not all about the frownies. :)

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See, this is kinda reaching the point of silly. By the definition posted here, I could spend the next year logging every cache in existance (except those I have found, or which are mine) with a DNF log. I haven't found it yet, right? Therefore, I did not find it.

 

That's just silly talk. If you didn't even look, how could you have found it? Personally, unless there's some sort of external reason beyond my control which precludes me from looking for a cache, if I don't look for the cache, I'm not going to log it. Such external reasons could include (but aren't limited to):

 

Construction in the area

Poison ivy/oak in the area

Dangerous insects (wasps, yellow jackets, etc.) in the area.

Dangerous animals (snakes, bears, etc.) present

semi-permanently closed parking area

 

Basically, if there's something which I feel other cachers need to know about so that they can plan their hunt accordingly, I'll go ahead and post a DNF. However, if I drive along the road and pass a cache just because I missed my turn into the parking lot, I'm not going to DNF that. If I pull into the parking lot and start to search, but have to leave due to rain or lack of time, I'm not (normally) going to DNF that, since I don't feel like I have performed a thorough search yet. To me, a DNF log means I performed a thorough search for the cache and was unable to locate it. In all other cases, I MIGHT decide to post a note, but it depends a lot on how I feel that day.

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The question seems to be at what point a DNF is appropriate. I think most people would agree that if you perform a thorough search for a cache and fail to find that cache, it constitutes a DNF. However, this is where the grey area begins to appear.

 

Is it a DNF if you get to ground zero but don't have enough time to perform a thorough search, so you abandon it to return when you have some more time to spend? I believe that the answer to this is "maybe". I won't burden the discussion with why I think it's a maybe.

 

Is it a DNF if you decide to go after a string of caches, and when you get to the parking lot nearest the cache you decide that you're not going to go after the cache for one reason or another? Again, I think this is a "maybe".

 

Is it a DNF if you decide to go after a cache but change your mind before arriving at the parking lot nearest the cache? In my opinion, it could be, but usually isn't.

 

Is it a DNF if you decide to go caching in a general area, but you didn't go to the location of a particular cache? I would say no.

 

If anyone would like me to elaborate on my "maybe" responses, I'll be happy to. However, I feel that most people can answer that question themselves.

 

My personal rule is if I plug in the coordinates, hit Go To and come up empty, its a DNF.

 

For example, on Saturday I was at my brother-in-law's house. Turned on my GPS and saw a cache .14 mile from his front door. Set out in search for it and after a half hour of searching I was skunked. Got back and looked up the page on the GC.com and found it was a puzzle and there was no cache at the coordinates. That goes in my book as a DNF.

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We always log our DNFs for the exact same reason we log our finds-- it's an experience we had and we ant to document it! GC.com offers a such a great service by allowing you to list the caches you've logged by Found, Didn't Find, Wrote Note, etc.... by not logging DNFs you're not getting the benefit of your membership.

 

Also, logging DNFs helps other cachers!

 

You can see our DNF milestones in our profile :D

 

Sure you may intend to come back tomorrow for another search but for now, you didnt find the cache. You ran out of gas while on your way to the cache site and never made it, did you find the cache, NOPE. The cache was surrounded by poison ivy so you chose not to grab it, hhmmm NO FIND! You can come up with a ton of reasons why you didn't find a cache. They can be very good reasons too, but the fact still remains,,, you didn't find the cache!

 

DNF = Did Not Find

 

It's not a hard concept to grasp and it's certainly not a bad mark on your geocaching report card. Log the DNF when this happens! :)

You both looked at my All Of The Cool Cachers Log DNF's Here, but didn't log a DNF. Who cares if you live zillions of miles away and haven't found the time to drive up to Oregon to find it? You didn't find the cache!

 

(You KNOW I'm just playing & joking, right? It would still be cool to see some more out-of-state DNFs on my cache, though...) :antenna:

 

Woo! Just logged a DNF on your cache! Hopefully nobody gets on my case for padding my DNF count though. Despite what anyone might say about me, it's not all about the frownies. :antenna:

 

I logged one also, and it looks like somebody doesn't like inflated frown face stats. Check out the please archive log. :D

 

Some people have no concept of fun.

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On the serious side of things, I see nothing wrong with a DNF if you look for the cache and “Did Not Find” it.

 

If I could not get to the area because the roads were closed, which has happened to me before, I post a note. However if I get to the area and I can’t find the cache for whatever reason, I log it as a frown face.

 

I don’t want to start another debate about numbers and all, but I have seen some long time cachers with big numbers log DNFs. I didn’t seem to hurt them.

 

I just wish people would get their egos out of the way and have some fun caching. Don’t make my life as a cacher and a cache owner harder, just because you are afraid someone will think you’re less of cacher. If someone razzes you over a DNF they’re a a^^#@&e anyway. Just ignore them.

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People are VERY worried about hurting their ego. When they log a DNF, they feel it hurts their ego, so most cachers do not log DNF's.

 

The funny thing about this is that almost no cachers I've talked to who refuse to DNF will admit it's about their ego. After all, it hurts your ego to admit that you are worried about your ego! :)

 

Doesn't take long for any debate to degenerate into accusations of impure motive. People who don't log DNFs to your standard of purity are protecting their egos, right? Making statements condemning others' impure motives and implicity congratulating oneself is strong medicine for the ego, too. The never-DNF guy might just want to fail privately, but the DNF-scold is boasting publicly.

 

Cachers who never post DNFs are not contributing fully to the caching community, since they deprive cache owners of valuable surveillance of their caches. Cachers who always post DNFs, even for aborted or half-hearted (or incompetent) searches aren't really doing anyone any favors either. The main difference is that the latter kind of cacher only exists in self-congratulatory forum postings.

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Cachers who never post DNFs are not contributing fully to the caching community, since they deprive cache owners of valuable surveillance of their caches. Cachers who always post DNFs, even for aborted or half-hearted (or incompetent) searches aren't really doing anyone any favors either. The main difference is that the latter kind of cacher only exists in self-congratulatory forum postings.

 

I agree with what you're saying. I think that a DNF is for when you truely hunted for cache at the cache location, but for whatever reason, you Did Not Find it. Not just didn't get close or didn't feel like it today.

 

In the example at the start of this thread the cacher in question was hunting for this cache http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...f8-fa837975faf8

The first time he hunted for over 40 mins with no luck. The second time he hunted for 30 mins and couldn't find it. He is not the only one to do so. I've heard that other have looked for it without any luck yet there is only one DNF.

 

After hearing, second hand of course, that people were having more trouble than I intended for this cache I went out and sat for 30 mins by the cache letting my GPSr average the best cords I could under the current conditons. I would have done this sooner if I had known. However the only way I could have known is if somebody had logged a DNF.

Edited by Totem Clan
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Ah, gotcha. It certainly would have been helpful if those folks had DNF'ed (or noted, or emailed) since the tree cover is confounding GPS readings as the description warns. The situations you describe (repeated, thorough hunts) would not have been exempt from a DNF log under my philosophy, or that of any of the other posters except one (the "never" guy), so you certainly should have received some feedback.

 

Some of us, myself included, replied more to the topic heading "Why Not Log A DNF" than to the particular scenario. There are circumstances in which I'll withhold a DNF, and I have good reasons for doing so. But this case isn't one of 'em--any of the unsuccessful searchers really should have done you a favor (and the finders might've considered posting their coords).

 

Since you're only rating the difficulty 2.5 have you considered changing the hint to provide general directions from the nearest point at which you get good GPS reception (if practical)? That might help more than trying to refine bad readings.

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Ah, gotcha. It certainly would have been helpful if those folks had DNF'ed (or noted, or emailed) since the tree cover is confounding GPS readings as the description warns. The situations you describe (repeated, thorough hunts) would not have been exempt from a DNF log under my philosophy, or that of any of the other posters except one (the "never" guy), so you certainly should have received some feedback.

 

Some of us, myself included, replied more to the topic heading "Why Not Log A DNF" than to the particular scenario. There are circumstances in which I'll withhold a DNF, and I have good reasons for doing so. But this case isn't one of 'em--any of the unsuccessful searchers really should have done you a favor (and the finders might've considered posting their coords).

 

Since you're only rating the difficulty 2.5 have you considered changing the hint to provide general directions from the nearest point at which you get good GPS reception (if practical)? That might help more than trying to refine bad readings.

 

You can walk within 5 or 6 feet of the cache on the sidewalk side with no tree cover at all. Because of this the closest point with good reception is almost on top of the cache. The rub is, only one of the local rabbits could get to it from that direction. The rest of us have to walk about 50 or 60 feet up the treeline to find a break that will lead back down between the rows of tree to the point where you can get to the cache.

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A couple of local cachers with the most finds around my area dont log there DNFs, why I dont know. I know they have DNFs by reading there logs saying its there second/third attempt at the cache. They will also call one another for help which is no big deal to me. But I see it snowballing as others do not log them now.

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We always log our DNFs for the exact same reason we log our finds-- it's an experience we had and we ant to document it! GC.com offers a such a great service by allowing you to list the caches you've logged by Found, Didn't Find, Wrote Note, etc.... by not logging DNFs you're not getting the benefit of your membership.

 

Also, logging DNFs helps other cachers!

 

You can see our DNF milestones in our profile :antenna:

 

Sure you may intend to come back tomorrow for another search but for now, you didnt find the cache. You ran out of gas while on your way to the cache site and never made it, did you find the cache, NOPE. The cache was surrounded by poison ivy so you chose not to grab it, hhmmm NO FIND! You can come up with a ton of reasons why you didn't find a cache. They can be very good reasons too, but the fact still remains,,, you didn't find the cache!

 

DNF = Did Not Find

 

It's not a hard concept to grasp and it's certainly not a bad mark on your geocaching report card. Log the DNF when this happens! :)

You both looked at my All Of The Cool Cachers Log DNF's Here, but didn't log a DNF. Who cares if you live zillions of miles away and haven't found the time to drive up to Oregon to find it? You didn't find the cache!

 

(You KNOW I'm just playing & joking, right? It would still be cool to see some more out-of-state DNFs on my cache, though...) :antenna:

 

I only posted a note. I guess I'm just not that cool. :D

If I searched for the cache and didn't find it, it's a DNF. If I couldn't get close enough to even begin actually looking, I'm more likely to post a note that hopefully will aid those seeking after me (wrong side of creek, PI briars (wait that stuff doesn't stop me from looking) road closed, outside posted operating hours for a park or botanical gardens (you would think that a considerate cache owner would already have that posted to the page :D ).

It's week since my return from GW4 and I'm just now getting around to logging my posts. Quite a few caches have been disabled or archived that we didn't find. I'm still posting those logs. We came, we searched, and we didn't find, and quite frankly some of those cache owners do deserve a little piling on. :antenna::antenna:

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I have never logged a DNF and I never will.

If I think the cache is missing, I'll e-mail the owner.

The last three caches that I couldn't find were:

* A micro hidden in the woods, with a difficulty of 4. With a note that if you log 2 DNF's on it and then ask, the owner will give you a hint.

* A cache page that said "Feel free to post your own coordinates. I tried six times and this was the best I got." No hints were given. The cache owner mentioned prickers and pine trees The area was also covered with poison ivy.

* A cache that, on my third attempt (for a difficulty 1), I called the cache owner for a hint. She couldn't remember where she hid it, she thought it was under a log, but didn't know which one. (It was a Mini M&M container.) The previous finder was only able to succeed by calling someone else who had found it and being given exact instructions. On the next attempt, I did find it.

Why should I tell any of these hiders that I couldn't find their caches? They apparently don't want them found.

 

Yeah, but if you posted DNFs with this info on the cache pages, other cachers like myself would know not to waste our time on those caches. :)

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The question seems to be at what point a DNF is appropriate. I think most people would agree that if you perform a thorough search for a cache and fail to find that cache, it constitutes a DNF. However, this is where the grey area begins to appear.

 

Is it a DNF if you get to ground zero but don't have enough time to perform a thorough search, so you abandon it to return when you have some more time to spend? I believe that the answer to this is "maybe". I won't burden the discussion with why I think it's a maybe.

 

Is it a DNF if you decide to go after a string of caches, and when you get to the parking lot nearest the cache you decide that you're not going to go after the cache for one reason or another? Again, I think this is a "maybe".

 

Is it a DNF if you decide to go after a cache but change your mind before arriving at the parking lot nearest the cache? In my opinion, it could be, but usually isn't.

 

Is it a DNF if you decide to go caching in a general area, but you didn't go to the location of a particular cache? I would say no.

 

If anyone would like me to elaborate on my "maybe" responses, I'll be happy to. However, I feel that most people can answer that question themselves.

 

I am not as hard core in logging DNFs as many others are, but I certainly do try to post a DNF if it has any chance of assisting the owner or future seekers. Examples of how I have treated your grey areas...

 

grey area 1: the last time I went out looking for a cache I stopped by before work. I didnt have a lot of time as a result and found out pretty quickly that there was literally thousands of possible hiding spots for a small container in the area. I also had no clue what type of container it was, how small the "small" listed size was, and there was no hints available. It was an obvious grunt work cache that even the owner probably suspected would get some complaints (after all, it was titled "because I can") - I went on to work without really even thouroughly searching the area and logged it as a DNF. The main reason is so that future finders can get some info that it isn't a quick park and grab and really will take some effort to find. Later, I skipped out on my lunch and used the hour break to hunt for it again - and eventually found the cache. Still kept the DNF posted and added the found it right after. The record is still there and future seekers can see its in place but may take some time to find.

 

grey area 2: the one reason or other is really subjective. We do this a lot - and it usually deals with terrain. We try to limit ourselves mostly to 1 to 1.5 terrain caches as Lady K is disabled and when we go caching together we cant go long distances of bushwacking. Often I will bushwack a bit off a trail, but if I have to go out of sight, we often just move on to the next cache. In those cases I probably won't post a DNF. If the reason was due to construction, raging fire at the location, gang warfare in progress, or a statewide 4th of July parade marching across the apparent ground zero - yeah, we will probably post a DNF and comment on the amusing or tragic reason why we did not leave our vehicle. We did this for a multi cache we searched for in Rawlins last summer. We ran into enough odd characters during the hunt - a couple that did not seem to be on the level - and as a result by the time we got to the final location we saw it was just enough out of public view that we felt better to pass than risk that we were be followed and harm might come to us as a result. Never left the car and no reason to think the cache was not in place but its still a valid DNF that may help inform future finders of the urban society the tour takes them through.

 

grey area 3: usually happens when we are running out of time. If I plug in 20 caches into the GPSr the morning before a road trip, I already know I will have to skip some to save time. The ones I skip without even looking for a place to park I never mention with a DNF. It wasn't even an attempt. There ae many on this forum that will disagree with me on this point cause I did enter the waypoint while at my computer at home. They are entiled to their opinion - I just don't share it.

 

grey area 4: maybe the best example for this would be what we did for Memorial day weekend this year. We took a trip to Denver and set aside a whole day for caching. Everything that could go wrong did. I hadn't used our palm since last summer and when I turned it on I found the battery had died and by the time it had recharged it had erased all its programs - including cachemate. I reinstalled cachemate, but during the reset I managed to use a different user name for the palm than before, so it wouldnt register the software. I never got it fixed so we didnt have the ability to cache paperless. All I ended up doing was download 100 waypoints in the GPSr and figure we would have to search blind. Come the caching day, I can't find the GPSr anywhere. Its not in the caching bag and I figure I must have left it at home by the computer. Now we have no cache pages, no waypoints, and no GPSr to track down a waypoint that we don't have. Of all the waypoints, there was only one I looked at online in detail - the first one on the list for caches centered on Denver. Only because I knew the park it was in and the fact I did read the logs and hints and stuff before we left on our trip, I was actually able to find the cache with no GPSr and only my memory to guide me. Later in the day we stopped by a library and chose a park right by where we used to live and read the descriptions of a couple of caches in that park. As a result we were able to once again find a couple more caches just from reading hints and logs. This took way more time than if we had the GPSr, but it did work. As for the other waypoints we downloaded in the GPSr - we didnt log them as DNFs since that would be rediculous to assume we could find them without any info we could recall. Of course, the next day I was cleaning out the truck before driving back home and tucked in the seat cushions I find the GPSr - it was in the truck the whole time! Oh well, the caching gods were against us for sure.

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We always log our DNFs for the exact same reason we log our finds-- it's an experience we had and we ant to document it! GC.com offers a such a great service by allowing you to list the caches you've logged by Found, Didn't Find, Wrote Note, etc.... by not logging DNFs you're not getting the benefit of your membership.

 

Also, logging DNFs helps other cachers!

 

You can see our DNF milestones in our profile :lol:

 

Sure you may intend to come back tomorrow for another search but for now, you didnt find the cache. You ran out of gas while on your way to the cache site and never made it, did you find the cache, NOPE. The cache was surrounded by poison ivy so you chose not to grab it, hhmmm NO FIND! You can come up with a ton of reasons why you didn't find a cache. They can be very good reasons too, but the fact still remains,,, you didn't find the cache!

 

DNF = Did Not Find

 

It's not a hard concept to grasp and it's certainly not a bad mark on your geocaching report card. Log the DNF when this happens! :lol:

You both looked at my All Of The Cool Cachers Log DNF's Here, but didn't log a DNF. Who cares if you live zillions of miles away and haven't found the time to drive up to Oregon to find it? You didn't find the cache!

 

(You KNOW I'm just playing & joking, right? It would still be cool to see some more out-of-state DNFs on my cache, though...) :)

 

Well, i go along with Briansnat in determining whether i searched for and didn't find a cache. I went and looked at your cache page but,,,, i didn't plug in the coordinates and press "goto". :lol:

Edited by Mudfrog
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You can walk within 5 or 6 feet of the cache on the sidewalk side with no tree cover at all. Because of this the closest point with good reception is almost on top of the cache. The rub is, only one of the local rabbits could get to it from that direction. The rest of us have to walk about 50 or 60 feet up the treeline to find a break that will lead back down between the rows of tree to the point where you can get to the cache.

 

Well then, a couple of suggestions:

 

--Shoot your coords from the sidewalk (where reception is good) and project them to the cache. This will yield better coords than averaging the jumpy coords taken from the cache location under tree cover.

 

--Describe the approach a bit more, or even suggest a method for finding the cache. For example, two cachers could locate it by stationing one on the sidewalk to guide the other searching in the briar patch.

 

Anyhow, sounds like a worthy cache with an interesting 'gotcha' to the search.

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I have never logged a DNF and I never will.

If I think the cache is missing, I'll e-mail the owner.

The last three caches that I couldn't find were:

* A micro hidden in the woods, with a difficulty of 4. With a note that if you log 2 DNF's on it and then ask, the owner will give you a hint.

* A cache page that said "Feel free to post your own coordinates. I tried six times and this was the best I got." No hints were given. The cache owner mentioned prickers and pine trees The area was also covered with poison ivy.

* A cache that, on my third attempt (for a difficulty 1), I called the cache owner for a hint. She couldn't remember where she hid it, she thought it was under a log, but didn't know which one. (It was a Mini M&M container.) The previous finder was only able to succeed by calling someone else who had found it and being given exact instructions. On the next attempt, I did find it.

Why should I tell any of these hiders that I couldn't find their caches? They apparently don't want them found.

 

Yeah, but if you posted DNFs with this info on the cache pages, other cachers like myself would know not to waste our time on those caches. :lol:

And deprive you of valuable exercise in the fresh air? :lol:

 

Seriously, the first two had the information that I gave you on the cache page, the last one anyone could have deduced the difficulty from the previous finder's log.

For my part, the first one I looked for only because I was walking by while getting another cache, otherwise I wouldn't have even tried. The other two are about a half mile from my apartment, good for "I gotta get out of here for awhile" times. Under other circumstances I probably wouldn't have even tried to find them.

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