The New Numbers Game

[+paintfiction]

You aren't "experienced" until you've opened an ammo box and been bitten by an extremely upset hamster. No cache is truly a difficulty 5 unless the trade items fight back.

 

I apologize for this being off topic but a bit of humor goes a long way in healing hard feelings caused by strongly held beliefs on both sides. Your hamster comment reminded me of this cache.

 

Read the logs.... it is hilarious. BTW... the hider's mother was quite upset with him until she found the cache herself.

[+VegasCacheHounds]

I also feel that you need to experience a lot of caches in order to understand them.

 

I don't see that. I had a pretty good idea as to what this sport was all about by the time I had 36 finds (I use that number because my 36th was my first micro). By my 50th find I had experienced short hikes, long hikes, drive ups, urban caches, suburban caches, historic caches, scenic caches, lame caches, puzzle caches, multi caches, micros, full size, 1/1's, difficult terrain, events, virtuals, devious hides, caches in AOL tins and ammo boxes and caches on two coasts and in 3 states.

 

I'll put the experince I gained in my first 50 finds up against anyone who has racked up 1,000+ finds by going from mall parking lot lamp post to mall parking lot lamp post.

You aren't "experienced" until you've opened an ammo box and been bitten by an extremely upset hamster. No cache is truly a difficulty 5 unless the trade items fight back.

 

[Luckless]

One of the first things I noticed about geocaching was that there was a lack of control over how it was played simply because it is world wide. How do you police something that big to make sure everyone is doing exactly what they should be doing.

This could be especially troubling to me when I was trying to make assurances about what they could expect

(tongue in cheek) to the people that I was trying to get permission from in order to place a cache on their property. I basically told them that geocaching was a hunt to find a hidden cache container that contained a log you had to sign to comfirm your find. Even so when I place and list a cache I have to bear in mind that cachers will sometimes trample property or go at times they are not allowed. I do the best I can to avoid problems.

 

"If geocaching.com is a game where does one keep score, surely it can't be with the smiley count?

If geocaching.com is a journal, why not support/implement features that further what's already in place?"

 

I believe it is a game, but it is a game you play against yourself- your personal best...your favorite finds, your most finds in a day, your best times, your worst....

Seems to me we all are running a different race so you can't really compare your game to others, but that doesn't make it less important. It also doesn't mean that some basic rules cannot be laid down, some definitions of the rules clarified or that those rules cannot be changed by TPTB for the geocaching.com community as a whole.

Just my two cents.

[+The Leprechauns]

You aren't "experienced" until you've opened an ammo box and been bitten by an extremely upset hamster. No cache is truly a difficulty 5 unless the trade items fight back.

 

I apologize for this being off topic but a bit of humor goes a long way in healing hard feelings caused by strongly held beliefs on both sides. Your hamster comment reminded me of this cache.

 

Read the logs.... it is hilarious. BTW... the hider's mother was quite upset with him until she found the cache herself.

Thanks for sharing that cache. My own twisted mind would apparently fit in quite well in your neck of the woods. Perhaps that is why I enjoyed my visit to your area last year so much. An evening of hunting Stressmaster caches definitely appeals to the twisted side of the brain. Not to mention my encounter with a certain lion.

Edited June 6, 2006 by The Leprechauns

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

scare me please.

 

Mike

 

OK, you asked for it:

 

BOO!!!

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

I've been a member about a year and a half and have 20 finds. I drive a 76,500 Lbs truck 6 days a week to earn a living and have 80 acres of farmland to take care of, summertime about all I get done is mow grass, weeds and brush. So I don't hunt very often but enjoy it when I do. If you think that makes me a poor cacher, so be it, your opinion really doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, and I still get to have fun.

Of course I could always log a few thousand caches online that I've never seen, most of them would never get deleted and then I would be a good cacher in your opinion, because I'd have a lot of "finds" next to my name, but I'll stick with the honest count, thank you anyway grey_wolf & momcat.

[+paintfiction]

I apologize for this being off topic but a bit of humor goes a long way in healing hard feelings caused by strongly held beliefs on both sides. Your hamster comment reminded me of this cache.

 

Read the logs.... it is hilarious. BTW... the hider's mother was quite upset with him until she found the cache herself.

Thanks for sharing that cache. My own twisted mind would apparently fit in quite well in your neck of the woods. Perhaps that is why I enjoyed my visit to your area last year so much. An evening of hunting Stressmaster caches definitely appeals to the twisted side of the brain. Not to mention my encounter with a certain lion.

 

I think I have photographic evidence of your lion encounter tucked away somewhere.....

 

BTW.... the lion said to send you this:

[+Jeep_Dog]

 

Criminal is also one of those cachers who does not log all his caches online and is pretty far behind on logging.

...er...well....uh...hmmm. Sad to say they're all there.

 

Thanks, brother. You gave me a good chuckle on that one.

 

I wonder if anyone looks with derision upon those with 300 something caches? 200? 100?

 

Wow. I thought I was a "cacher" at the first find. Sure, I did not do the activity at the frequency of many in my area at the time, since I do, after all, have a family and knew I was between deployments. Now I see that there are some that say "it is not about the numbers, so please quit fussing" where there are certain circumstances where it *is* about the numbers.

 

I would suppose, then, that someone with less than 100 in 4-5 years is a "pseudo cacher" and hence looked down upon in their current caching activities since someone has "been there, done that, but years ago?"

 

Wow.

[+Jeep_Dog]

AND ANOTHER THING...

 

Being about the numbers, et al. There's a cacher I know of with a relatively high find count, who very seldom will log a cache that requires more than a .2 walk in the woods, and has to be chided to log anything that requires a 1-2 mile one-way walk. In addition, on caches within .2, this person is renown for driving their all-terrain vehicle over ANYTHING to get to the cache. The find count I am talking about here is in the thousands. I noticed in one day of caching, this person logged 40 something caches (mostly of the "spew" type), while I logged 2 (and walked 9 or so miles and had to make a climb), yet that person got praised in local circles for a "great day of caching," while others like me, who also had a "great day of caching" went unnoticed.

 

Would this be a "good cacher" or a "real cacher" in your eyes? In the case above, many would say "yes, that is a great cacher, look at all those finds."

 

I know of another cacher with less than 30 finds who is dedicated to caching, loves caching, and will without thought log some very hard ones requiring walks/climbs/whatever (in fact, has at least 14 micros that I know of that were never logged). Yet, this is not a "real cacher" in your eyes?

 

I find this all rather disappointing.

 

Then again, it is disappointing if only I let it bother me that someone may be judging my find count. There will always be those out there that support all cachers, great or small numbered, and whether they log a bazillion micros in a day or climb a mountain to log "just one."

Edited June 7, 2006 by Jeep_Dog

[+JohnnyVegas]

If you are referring to me, I don't have to look, I'm getting dozens of emails a day on this issue.

 

Why? Are you the Cache Police, or information brokerage? In Charge of reeling in cheaters?

Sorry, but three days a week Criminal gets to take two hour lunches to hit the gym. You see, he has many varied interests other than just geocaching. Sometimes he slips into this weird place where he talks about himself in the third person.

 

No, I’m not the cache police. I do, however, find cheating* deplorable. The vast majority of the people who have responded think it’s wrong/stupid/lame to log a Found It on a cache that you did not find, the owner of the website has also said pretty much the same thing, and yet people are still whining when they are exposed for doing it. Why are they sending the information to me? I can’t say with certainty. Maybe they don’t want to rock the local boat but find the practice wrong, maybe they aren’t confrontational, or maybe they don’t want to upset their geocaching friends that do it.

 

*I recognize that many of the people who got caught up in this didn’t intentionally cheat, but were mentored by some who did.

 

Inadvertent cheating – wrong

Intentional cheating – deplorable

Intentionally cheating at a game with no prizes merely to puff up your ego – pricelessly appalling.

 

THOSE WHO LIVE IN GLASS HOUSES.....

 

December 10, 2005 by Criminal (318 found)

Found this one on a cache maintenance visit with the owner. It takes some technique to retrieve it. Thanks!

[view this log on a separate page]

 

Is not finding a cache with the owner cheating/lying? A bit hypocritical...

 

Your last statement was is really stupid.

 

Is not finding a cache with the owner cheating/lying? A bit hypocritical...

 

Once a month I travel 100 miles will a caching buddy to an area that I was living in about a year ago. I have several caches in this area that I still own. Once it a while I will have him try to find on of my caches, I do not help him find it, I just watch.

 

Just being with a cache owner while looking for his cache does not mean he/she is going to help you out.

[+JohnnyVegas]

 

Having read through this and other threads about the problems caused by GW4, I do not recall anybody saying that pocket caches should be banned per se. What is objectionable is the logging on GC.com of "finds" of things that do not meet the guidelines of GC.com. Nor do many object to you playing the game your way. What is objectionable is trying to get credit for things that do not meet the guidelines of GC.com.

 

Guidlines? More like Gestopic rules. And that is my point. Let this sport evolve. There will always be caches that require a hike to a location that is memorable as well as those that are not as memorable. Just let people play and enjoy. If you listen to the whiners and to those that perceive their opinion comes from a higher order, then everyone loses.

Statements like More like Gestopic rules. Make your statment sound more childish that it is, It makes it extra childish

[+Larry L]

The solution can be found in two little words:

 

No Stats

 

No Stats No Stats No Stats No Stats No Stats No Stats No Stats No Stats No Stats No Stats No Stats No Stats No Stats No Stats No Stats

 

Nuf Said

[+CharlieP]

I noticed in one day of caching, this person logged 40 something caches (mostly of the "spew" type), while I logged 2 (and walked 9 or so miles and had to make a climb), yet that person got praised in local circles for a "great day of caching," while others like me, who also had a "great day of caching" went unnoticed.

 

That's an interesting observation. A geocacher here in the Atlanta area logged this cache recently.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...1e-9751fdc87a31

 

It went under the radar for the most part ... whereas logging the 1000th find is a real event. I suppose people in groups tend to accept certain standards, like kids who wear certain styles of clothes, or people who accept that certain types of cars are IN. The nice thing about geocaching is that is it easy to ignore the standards and just do your own thing. Don't try that in high school.

[+sbell111]

I noticed in one day of caching, this person logged 40 something caches (mostly of the "spew" type), while I logged 2 (and walked 9 or so miles and had to make a climb), yet that person got praised in local circles for a "great day of caching," while others like me, who also had a "great day of caching" went unnoticed.

 

That's an interesting observation. A geocacher here in the Atlanta area logged this cache recently.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...1e-9751fdc87a31

 

It went under the radar for the most part ... whereas logging the 1000th find is a real event. I suppose people in groups tend to accept certain standards, like kids who wear certain styles of clothes, or people who accept that certain types of cars are IN. The nice thing about geocaching is that is it easy to ignore the standards and just do your own thing. Don't try that in high school.

You both are hitting on an important issue. The issue is that the stats are only good for what you want them to do. Some people are impressed when a cacher hits his 1000th find. Others are in wonder when someone finds a cache while on a trip to another country. Myself, I'm pretty immune to the stats of others or where they find their caches. As long as the rules are not broken, who cares? When teh rules are broken, and the perception is that it is OK to break them, there's a problem.

[+CharlieP]

When the rules are broken, and the perception is that it is OK to break them, there's a problem.

 

Only if you care about the "score". Many cachers don't care, or don't even accept the concept of a score. But to be fair, many cachers DO care, and therefore the folks who run Geocaching.com must also care ... they make the rules.

[+sbell111]

When the rules are broken, and the perception is that it is OK to break them, there's a problem.

 

Only if you care about the "score". Many cachers don't care, or don't even accept the concept of a score. But to be fair, many cachers DO care, and therefore the folks who run Geocaching.com must also care ... they make the rules.

I strongly disagree. Whether or not people should accept the breaking of generally accepted rules has nothing to do with scoring, stats, numbers, or smilies. It is about maintaining the concept that it is not acceptable for the rules to be broken. Its about integrity, not 'winning'. When it becomes OK to cheat, it is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Edited June 7, 2006 by sbell111

[+grey_wolf & momcat]

Everyone seems to be getting upset over things they say do not matter, STATS etc. Just remember that a person that cheats at solitaire is only cheating themselves; and caching is really solitaire.

[+briansnat]

Everyone seems to be getting upset over things they say do not matter, STATS etc. Just remember that a person that cheats at solitaire is only cheating themselves; and caching is really solitaire.

 

It all depends on the kind of cheating being done. It can affect others. I know of one geocacher whas lured into a fruitless 100 mile RT to find a long missing cache because someone logged a phony find on it.

 

A few months ago my wife and I wasted our time looking for a cache that was no longer there. A glance at the page showed recent smileys, so we drove out of our way and searched a lot longer than we ordnarily would have because the cache had recent "finds". When I got home to log my DNF I noticed that the recent "finds" were all lies. The owner "let" the people log finds for the missing cache.

 

Yeah, my fault for trusting in the integrity of my fellow geocachers. I should have read the logs first. Still, their

little personal version of the sport wasted my time and gas.

[+grey_wolf & momcat]

Everyone seems to be getting upset over things they say do not matter, STATS etc. Just remember that a person that cheats at solitaire is only cheating themselves; and caching is really solitaire.

 

It all depends on the kind of cheating being done. It can affect others. I know of one geocacher whas lured into a fruitless 100 mile RT to find a long missing cache because someone logged a phony find on it.

 

A few months ago my wife and I wasted our time looking for a cache that was no longer there. A glance at the page showed recent smileys, so we drove out of our way and searched a lot longer than we ordnarily would have because the cache had recent "finds". When I got home to log my DNF I noticed that the recent "finds" were all lies. The owner "let" the people log finds for the missing cache.

 

Yeah, my fault for trusting in the integrity of my fellow geocachers. I should have read the logs first. Still, their

little personal version of the sport wasted my time and gas.

 

Been there done that! Everyone probably will in time.

["Paws"itraction]

I also feel that you need to experience a lot of caches in order to understand them.

 

I don't see that. I had a pretty good idea as to what this sport was all about by the time I had 36 finds (I use that number because my 36th was my first micro). By my 50th find I had experienced short hikes, long hikes, drive ups, urban caches, suburban caches, historic caches, scenic caches, lame caches, puzzle caches, multi caches, micros, full size, 1/1's, difficult terrain, events, virtuals, devious hides, caches in AOL tins and ammo boxes and caches on two coasts and in 3 states.

 

I'll put the experince I gained in my first 50 finds up against anyone who has racked up 1,000+ finds by going from mall parking lot lamp post to mall parking lot lamp post.

You aren't "experienced" until you've opened an ammo box and been bitten by an extremely upset hamster. No cache is truly a difficulty 5 unless the trade items fight back.

w00t! My favorite sig line makes an unexpected comeback!

[+grey_wolf & momcat]

scare me please.

 

Mike

 

OK, you asked for it:

 

BOO!!!

 

Thanks, that took care of my aerobics for today.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

scare me please.

 

Mike

 

OK, you asked for it:

 

BOO!!!

 

Thanks, that took care of my aerobics for today.

 

Anytime, glad I could help.

[+Ambrosia]

You aren't "experienced" until you've opened an ammo box and been bitten by an extremely upset hamster. No cache is truly a difficulty 5 unless the trade items fight back.

 

I apologize for this being off topic but a bit of humor goes a long way in healing hard feelings caused by strongly held beliefs on both sides. Your hamster comment reminded me of this cache.

 

Read the logs.... it is hilarious. BTW... the hider's mother was quite upset with him until she found the cache herself.

Thanks for sharing that cache. My own twisted mind would apparently fit in quite well in your neck of the woods. Perhaps that is why I enjoyed my visit to your area last year so much. An evening of hunting Stressmaster caches definitely appeals to the twisted side of the brain. Not to mention my encounter with a certain lion.

Heh, heh...

[+raifords]

I don't much care what people say about anything. Folks will gripe about anything no matter what it is. That's out of way. We had a blast with the temporary caches at GW4 You actually had to go from person to person to find them. If you saw something a little out of the ordinary you asked them if that was a cache. You got to meet folks that you may not have if you hadn't been a little brave and gone to talk to them. On a couple of the temps we got in long conversations about caches we had found of theirs and just generally had a good time. We didn't get to log them because they were already archived by the time we got home. Lighten up folks and just enjoy geocaching for what it is... a game to enjoy. I was inspired by Paint's post and surely not by most of the others in this thread.

 

Sad I have to come out of lurking for a post like this:

 

I'm going to be a bit blunt. Because, quite frankly I'm very tired of seeing caches around here dropping like flies because of all of the invalid logs.

 

Did you physically visit these caches you intended to log? Did you sign the little piece of paper in the cache's container? If so, it's a find. If not, Its not a find no matter how you sugarcoat it.

 

"Pocket Caches" to be completely honest was a bad idea.

 

Personally, I'm very happy you didn't get to log them. You didn't visit the cache, so how could you even think about counting it as a log?

 

Do you know why they were archived? People like you.

 

A very heartfelt thanks for the lost opportunity to find certain caches. I suppose I should have jumped out there earlier before GW4 and found them.

[+grey_wolf & momcat]

I don't much care what people say about anything. Folks will gripe about anything no matter what it is. That's out of way. We had a blast with the temporary caches at GW4 You actually had to go from person to person to find them. If you saw something a little out of the ordinary you asked them if that was a cache. You got to meet folks that you may not have if you hadn't been a little brave and gone to talk to them. On a couple of the temps we got in long conversations about caches we had found of theirs and just generally had a good time. We didn't get to log them because they were already archived by the time we got home. Lighten up folks and just enjoy geocaching for what it is... a game to enjoy. I was inspired by Paint's post and surely not by most of the others in this thread.

 

Sad I have to come out of lurking for a post like this:

 

I'm going to be a bit blunt. Because, quite frankly I'm very tired of seeing caches around here dropping like flies because of all of the invalid logs.

 

Did you physically visit these caches you intended to log? Did you sign the little piece of paper in the cache's container? If so, it's a find. If not, Its not a find no matter how you sugarcoat it.

 

"Pocket Caches" to be completely honest was a bad idea.

 

Personally, I'm very happy you didn't get to log them. You didn't visit the cache, so how could you even think about counting it as a log?

 

Do you know why they were archived? People like you.

 

A very heartfelt thanks for the lost opportunity to find certain caches. I suppose I should have jumped out there earlier before GW4 and found them.

 

You are from Plano, Tx and weren't at GWIV. You missed a good time. As for the pocket caches, etc. we didn't log them (but don't care that others did), but running around seeing everyone each year and each event that you can get to is a real HOOT! And 12 or so caches one way or another is not a big thing to most that were there. Don't worry about those pocket caches, just go caching for the ones that you like. There are 3000 or so near you!!

[+Sagefox]

My comment about "fine cachers and those that need to do more caching"...

...On the other hand, I feel that if you have been on ground speak for 3 to 5 years and still are under 100 caches, you are not really a cacher. (my opinion) In the few caches I have located, I am sure there are a few good caches.

 

We must refer back to the Geocaching.com licensing manual before statements like this can be made. Quoting from the manual:

 

Novice Cacher: 1 to 19 finds (no license yet)

"A" License: (Beginner) 20 finds

"B" License: (Intermediate) 50 finds

"C" License: (Advanced) 100 finds

"D" License: (Expert) 200 finds

 

The manual specifically states that "License ratings shall not expire due to the passage of time. Experience, once gained, shall not be diminished in any manner during a period of inactivity no matter how long that period might be."

 

So there you have it.

[+grey_wolf & momcat]

My comment about "fine cachers and those that need to do more caching"...

...On the other hand, I feel that if you have been on ground speak for 3 to 5 years and still are under 100 caches, you are not really a cacher. (my opinion) In the few caches I have located, I am sure there are a few good caches.

 

We must refer back to the Geocaching.com licensing manual before statements like this can be made. Quoting from the manual:

 

Novice Cacher: 1 to 19 finds (no license yet)

"A" License: (Beginner) 20 finds

"B" License: (Intermediate) 50 finds

"C" License: (Advanced) 100 finds

"D" License: (Expert) 200 finds

 

The manual specifically states that "License ratings shall not expire due to the passage of time. Experience, once gained, shall not be diminished in any manner during a period of inactivity no matter how long that period might be."

 

So there you have it.

 

 

Cute

[+WalruZ]

hat person got praised in local circles for a "great day of caching," while others like me, who also had a "great day of caching" went unnoticed.

 

Which is why I think that fake stats are not 'harmless'. They erode the ties that bind the geocaching community together.

[+grey_wolf & momcat]

hat person got praised in local circles for a "great day of caching," while others like me, who also had a "great day of caching" went unnoticed.

 

Which is why I think that fake stats are not 'harmless'. They erode the ties that bind the geocaching community together.

 

If you know that your numbers are good and someone elses are not: you can have a smug inner feeling about it. Thats what it is all about, how we personally feel about our numbers isn't it.

[CoyoteRed]

hat person got praised in local circles for a "great day of caching," while others like me, who also had a "great day of caching" went unnoticed.

 

Which is why I think that fake stats are not 'harmless'. They erode the ties that bind the geocaching community together.

 

If you know that your numbers are good and someone elses are not: you can have a smug inner feeling about it. Thats what it is all about, how we personally feel about our numbers isn't it.

 

Not to put words in his mouth, but I'm thinking about the divisiveness of it. One can be snug all they want, it doesn't prevent the rabid smilie mongering that goes on.

[+Criminal]

hat person got praised in local circles for a "great day of caching," while others like me, who also had a "great day of caching" went unnoticed.

 

Which is why I think that fake stats are not 'harmless'. They erode the ties that bind the geocaching community together.

 

If you know that your numbers are good and someone elses are not: you can have a smug inner feeling about it. Thats what it is all about, how we personally feel about our numbers isn't it.

SNIP

Here's the problem,

 

It appears (I did say APPEARS) to be going around sicking the moderators on PC's. even actual caches that are also logged as pcs.

 

I don't like to name people in here. You know who you are.

 

I think it would be nice if some of the folks that work directly with geocaching, such as publishers and site owners, would stop and think that we are all simply trying to have fun. Some seem to think the geocaching world belongs to them and if you don't do it just the way they think it should be done then they give you a hard time. None us are making any money doing this, that I know of, and we are all trying to have fun, get some exercise and see some interesting places. Some are smarter than others and some are not a as smart as they may think they are.

 

Ok, time for yet another Criminal analogy.

 

Say you and I are playing monopoly, and I decide that since I’m using the boot, and boots normally come in pairs, that I am entitled to collect $400 for passing go instead of the usual $200. Hey, there’s nothing in the rules that specifically prohibit me from doing that right? You would (rightly) say that I am cheating, because I am. So as I pass GO, your numbers don’t matter to me, I should only be concerned with my own, and collect my $400. Hey, like some are saying, as long as I’m having fun and don’t, won’t or cannot see it hurting anyone, what’s the harm? There are really no winners in monopoly, at the end of the game the money goes back to the bank, the property titles are gathered and rubber-banded back together, and everyone is equal.

 

I don’t own monopoly, I don’t work for any monopoly listing service, I am just trying to have fun! Who the heck are you to tell me I cannot play in a way that gives me enjoyment?

 

Think about it.

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

Ok, time for yet another Criminal analogy.

 

Say you and I are playing monopoly, and I decide that since I’m using the boot, and boots normally come in pairs, that I am entitled to collect $400 for passing go instead of the usual $200. Hey, there’s nothing in the rules that specifically prohibit me from doing that right? You would (rightly) say that I am cheating, because I am. So as I pass GO, your numbers don’t matter to me, I should only be concerned with my own, and collect my $400. Hey, like some are saying, as long as I’m having fun and don’t, won’t or cannot see it hurting anyone, what’s the harm? There are really no winners in monopoly, at the end of the game the money goes back to the bank, the property titles are gathered and rubber-banded back together, and everyone is equal.

 

I don’t own monopoly, I don’t work for any monopoly listing service, I am just trying to have fun! Who the heck are you to tell me I cannot play in a way that gives me enjoyment?

 

Think about it.

 

OK, I thought about it. And it's a really BAD analogy. The purpose of monopoly is to play AGAINST someone else. The only way for someone to WIN Monopoly is if everyone else LOSES.

 

Geocaching, on the other hand, is not a competition. EVERYONE can WIN playing Geocaching.

 

Try again.

[+Criminal]

Ok, time for yet another Criminal analogy.

 

Say you and I are playing monopoly, and I decide that since I’m using the boot, and boots normally come in pairs, that I am entitled to collect $400 for passing go instead of the usual $200. Hey, there’s nothing in the rules that specifically prohibit me from doing that right? You would (rightly) say that I am cheating, because I am. So as I pass GO, your numbers don’t matter to me, I should only be concerned with my own, and collect my $400. Hey, like some are saying, as long as I’m having fun and don’t, won’t or cannot see it hurting anyone, what’s the harm? There are really no winners in monopoly, at the end of the game the money goes back to the bank, the property titles are gathered and rubber-banded back together, and everyone is equal.

 

I don’t own monopoly, I don’t work for any monopoly listing service, I am just trying to have fun! Who the heck are you to tell me I cannot play in a way that gives me enjoyment?

 

Think about it.

 

OK, I thought about it. And it's a really BAD analogy. The purpose of monopoly is to play AGAINST someone else. The only way for someone to WIN Monopoly is if everyone else LOSES.

 

Geocaching, on the other hand, is not a competition. EVERYONE can WIN playing Geocaching.

 

Try again.

Wrong, nobodody wins in either. At the end of the game your net worth is the same, it's play money.

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

Ok, time for yet another Criminal analogy.

 

Say you and I are playing monopoly, and I decide that since I’m using the boot, and boots normally come in pairs, that I am entitled to collect $400 for passing go instead of the usual $200. Hey, there’s nothing in the rules that specifically prohibit me from doing that right? You would (rightly) say that I am cheating, because I am. So as I pass GO, your numbers don’t matter to me, I should only be concerned with my own, and collect my $400. Hey, like some are saying, as long as I’m having fun and don’t, won’t or cannot see it hurting anyone, what’s the harm? There are really no winners in monopoly, at the end of the game the money goes back to the bank, the property titles are gathered and rubber-banded back together, and everyone is equal.

 

I don’t own monopoly, I don’t work for any monopoly listing service, I am just trying to have fun! Who the heck are you to tell me I cannot play in a way that gives me enjoyment?

 

Think about it.

 

OK, I thought about it. And it's a really BAD analogy. The purpose of monopoly is to play AGAINST someone else. The only way for someone to WIN Monopoly is if everyone else LOSES.

 

Geocaching, on the other hand, is not a competition. EVERYONE can WIN playing Geocaching.

 

Try again.

Wrong, nobodody wins in either. At the end of the game your net worth is the same, it's play money.

 

Tell that to these people.

 

But you're absolutely right. Monopoly is not a competition. That's why most people I know don't even use the money. Or the properties. They just kind of roll the dice and move around until they get tired of it. Actually, even using the dice makes it kind of competitive, so sometimes we just move the pieces around aimlessly, in random directions at random times. After all, nobody really wins.

[+tozainamboku]

Ok, time for yet another Criminal analogy.

 

Say you and I are playing monopoly, and I decide that since I’m using the boot, and boots normally come in pairs, that I am entitled to collect $400 for passing go instead of the usual $200. Hey, there’s nothing in the rules that specifically prohibit me from doing that right? You would (rightly) say that I am cheating, because I am. So as I pass GO, your numbers don’t matter to me, I should only be concerned with my own, and collect my $400. Hey, like some are saying, as long as I’m having fun and don’t, won’t or cannot see it hurting anyone, what’s the harm? There are really no winners in monopoly, at the end of the game the money goes back to the bank, the property titles are gathered and rubber-banded back together, and everyone is equal.

 

I don’t own monopoly, I don’t work for any monopoly listing service, I am just trying to have fun! Who the heck are you to tell me I cannot play in a way that gives me enjoyment?

 

Think about it.

 

OK, I thought about it. And it's a really BAD analogy. The purpose of monopoly is to play AGAINST someone else. The only way for someone to WIN Monopoly is if everyone else LOSES.

 

Geocaching, on the other hand, is not a competition. EVERYONE can WIN playing Geocaching.

 

Try again.

Wrong, nobodody wins in either. At the end of the game your net worth is the same, it's play money.

 

Monopoly comes with a set of printed rules. I don't think I've ever played Monopoly following the printed rules exactly. Everybody seems to have a variation on the rules - free parking, trading properties, putting multiple hotels on one property, etc.

Imagine if the Monopoly puritans started to insist that everybody must play Monopoly following the printed rules without variation. My friends and I are playing according to the variation we agreed on. We aren't competing with the Monopoly puritans, they can have their own game. We just want to post our results on the Monopoly website. But the puritans say that since we didn't follow the printed rules we can't use the Monopoly website

Edited June 13, 2006 by tozainamboku

[Mushtang]

Ok, time for yet another Criminal analogy.

Kewl. And it's time for Mushtang to see what you're saying. I love analogies.

 

Say you and I are playing monopoly, and I decide that since I’m using the boot, and boots normally come in pairs, that I am entitled to collect $400 for passing go instead of the usual $200.

Are we playing at your house, or at mine? If we're playing in your house and your house rules say that you get $400 and I only get $200, I can either agree to play the game with you or I can decline and play elsewhere.

 

Hey, there’s nothing in the rules that specifically prohibit me from doing that right?

Not accurate. The rules say you get $200. And $400 is not $200, so the rules do specifically prohibit it.

 

You would (rightly) say that I am cheating, because I am. So as I pass GO, your numbers don’t matter to me, I should only be concerned with my own, and collect my $400. Hey, like some are saying, as long as I’m having fun and don’t, won’t or cannot see it hurting anyone, what’s the harm?

The harm would be you getting an advantage over the people you're competing with.

 

There are really no winners in monopoly, at the end of the game the money goes back to the bank, the property titles are gathered and rubber-banded back together, and everyone is equal.

There IS a winner. The person that gets all the money wins. Then the game is over and you can either play again or put the game away.

 

I don’t own monopoly, I don’t work for any monopoly listing service, I am just trying to have fun! Who the heck are you to tell me I cannot play in a way that gives me enjoyment?

As a person competing against you I'd be in a position to tell you. And if you didn't want to change then I wouldn't play against you. Those are easy choices to make.

 

Think about it.

I did. How did I do?

[+Criminal]

 

Tell that to these people.

 

But you're absolutely right. Monopoly is not a competition. That's why most people I know don't even use the money. Or the properties. They just kind of roll the dice and move around until they get tired of it. Actually, even using the dice makes it kind of competitive, so sometimes we just move the pieces around aimlessly, in random directions at random times. After all, nobody really wins.

Thanks!

 

That made my day.

[+Criminal]

Hey, there’s nothing in the rules that specifically prohibit me from doing that right?

Not accurate. The rules say you get $200. And $400 is not $200, so the rules do specifically prohibit it.

 

But I did get $200, I also got an extra $200. The rules are mum on the extra $200, so it must be allowed. It's hyperbole.

 

Think about it.

I did. How did I do?

Very good actually.

[+Riddlers]

Okay, I have tried to stay out of this but I have one question. Why are you not equally going after those in your own area who have the same kind of caches and are logging them in the way that you object to?

[+Criminal]

Okay, I have tried to stay out of this but I have one question. Why are you not equally going after those in your own area who have the same kind of caches and are logging them in the way that you object to?

I am not aware of any pocket caches in my area.

[+Riddlers]

Okay, I have tried to stay out of this but I have one question. Why are you not equally going after those in your own area who have the same kind of caches and are logging them in the way that you object to?

I am not aware of any pocket caches in my area.

Moving caches and temp caches moved for an event and archieved caches that get logged.

[+Criminal]

Moving caches and temp caches moved for an event and archieved caches that get logged.

Can you rephrase that into a sentence? I don't understand what you're trying to say.

[+CheshireFrog]

Moving caches and temp caches moved for an event and archieved caches that get logged.

Can you rephrase that into a sentence? I don't understand what you're trying to say.

 

I think he means that there are caches in your area that have been moved for events or logged after they were archived, and he wants to know why they aren't on your bookmark list. I don't know that this is true, and I'm not going to look at the logs for the whole Northwest to find out. Even if it's true, I don't know why he would try to hold you accountable for them.

[+Criminal]

Moving caches and temp caches moved for an event and archieved caches that get logged.

Can you rephrase that into a sentence? I don't understand what you're trying to say.

 

I think he means that there are caches in your area that have been moved for events or logged after they were archived, and he wants to know why they aren't on your bookmark list. I don't know that this is true, and I'm not going to look at the logs for the whole Northwest to find out. Even if it's true, I don't know why he would try to hold you accountable for them.

OK, if I go with your translation, then he should request they be archived. I am not aware of any, and none were emailed to me.

[+Snoogans]

Moving caches and temp caches moved for an event and archieved caches that get logged.

Can you rephrase that into a sentence? I don't understand what you're trying to say.

 

I think he means that there are caches in your area that have been moved for events or logged after they were archived, and he wants to know why they aren't on your bookmark list. I don't know that this is true, and I'm not going to look at the logs for the whole Northwest to find out. Even if it's true, I don't know why he would try to hold you accountable for them.

 

Let's quit beating about the bush shall we?

 

I have been getting email about THIS archived cache for over a week now. As George Orwell said in Animal Farm, "Some pigs ARE more equal."

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with it. I'd actually like to log it some day.

[+sbell111]

Let's quit beating about the bush shall we?

 

I have been getting email about THIS archived cache for over a week now. As George Orwell said in Animal Farm, "Some pigs ARE more equal."

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with it. I'd actually like to log it some day.

My understanding is that that cache is an actual cache with a log. It is not a pocket cache. (I'd also like to log it one day. Hint, hint)

Edited June 13, 2006 by sbell111

[+Criminal]

Let's quit beating about the bush shall we?

 

I have been getting email about THIS archived cache for over a week now. As George Orwell said in Animal Farm, "Some pigs ARE more equal."

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with it. I'd actually like to log it some day.

My understanding is that that cache is an actual cache with a log. It is not a pocket cache. (I'd also like to log it one day. Hint, hint)

That cache isn't archived because it isn't there, it's archived so they can get some work done now and then. The cache and logbook are there, trust me.

[+Snoogans]

Let's quit beating about the bush shall we?

 

I have been getting email about THIS archived cache for over a week now. As George Orwell said in Animal Farm, "Some pigs ARE more equal."

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with it. I'd actually like to log it some day.

My understanding is that that cache is an actual cache with a log. It is not a pocket cache. (I'd also like to log it one day. Hint, hint)

That cache isn't archived because it isn't there, it's archived so they can get some work done now and then. The cache and logbook are there, trust me.

 

So it stands to reason that if I were to take one of MY caches an employ selective availability (gotta love THAT pun) on it. It would be okay according to you right?

 

If I did that with THIS cache....or maybe any of my other more popular caches..... No one from Groundspeak would lock it the minute they were onto it???

 

There were less than 130 watches on the Groundspeak Headquarters cache when I put my watch on it.

[+KC0GRN]

Man this is a long topic. I read about halfway through before I looked at the clock to see how long I'd been reading.

 

Do you know how many park'n'grab caches I coulda found while reading through this? Heh, just a little humor.

 

Life is too short to worry about silly things like stats, numbers, lame caches, and so fourth. Like some put it, I don't see anyone handing out money to the person that finds the most caches. Leave that up to other organizations and companies or cities that wish to hold caching competitions not linked to your gc.com "stats".

 

Personally, if I want to win something, I go and participate in a locally run "Medallion Hunt", quite possibly the ultimate in FTFs. Since that season is gearing up here with a bunch of summer festivals, I'll spend my time hunting down little round pieces of metal or plastic that could offer me a nice cash (not cache) prize, and my "numbers" won't go up during this period. Shoot, if I wanted to tout "numbers" I would tout how many medallions I've found. Currently I'm at Zero then, so I suck.

 

I like geocaching, in all it's different aspects. If you force me to change my habits so that you can feel better about your experience, I can just step out of your way. For the record, I've never "cheated" because I'm not "competing" against you. Anything I've logged is something I felt was worth my while to log, not because it was an easy way to make a number on a profile page go up. Just like I don't post a silly log like "TNLNSL TFTC" because it helps me log my super 200+ finds per day faster...

 

Lately, I've enjoyed trying to keep the county I live in cached out. This inclues all park'n'grabs, silly little "lame caches" all the way through trying to wade through a nasty swamp and toasting a digital camera in the process only to DNF that cache. Weigh the finds as you wish, what counts more? Who cares. Oh.. the numbers people care, in which case, I humbly bow to your prowess and criticizing abilities, call me a lousy worthless cacher that's only interested in taking you down a peg. Claim all my finds are illegitimate, yank my access to the site, delete my profile, confenscate my GPS while you're at it because I'm not worthy of the title "geocacher".

 

Even if you do all that, I'll still go out and find caches (and medallions, and letterboxes, and really cool spots that people don't know about), because I enjoy it.

[+Metaphor]

Let's quit beating about the bush shall we?

 

I have been getting email about THIS archived cache for over a week now. As George Orwell said in Animal Farm, "Some pigs ARE more equal."

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with it. I'd actually like to log it some day.

My understanding is that that cache is an actual cache with a log. It is not a pocket cache. (I'd also like to log it one day. Hint, hint)

That cache isn't archived because it isn't there, it's archived so they can get some work done now and then. The cache and logbook are there, trust me.

 

So it stands to reason that if I were to take one of MY caches an employ selective availability (gotta love THAT pun) on it. It would be okay according to you right?

 

If I did that with THIS cache....or maybe any of my other more popular caches..... No one from Groundspeak would lock it the minute they were onto it???

 

There were less than 130 watches on the Groundspeak Headquarters cache when I put my watch on it.

 

No, they would. The difference is in your perceived level of importance to the geocaching crowd as a whole. You could try logging "retirement card" caches on it, and tell everyone that you were there, though.