Is My Opinion Overboard?

1.1k · May 29, 2006

Over lunch today I told my nine year old son about this. He looked up from his happy meal and said:

That's just wrong!!!

He then proceeded to look for a cache to trade Happy Meal trinkets, but all he could find were urban micros!

(I'm sorry, it was sitting out there and I just HAD to throw that in!)

1.5k · May 29, 2006

Woohoo we have moved into the McJunk Swag topic

1.1k · May 29, 2006

Woohoo we have moved into the McJunk Swag topic

Yeah, but you've gotta admit it was artful: It was a McJunk Swag reference AND a Micro Spew reference. I'm quite pleased with myself!

May 29, 2006

When I asked him about it later he said he was mad about it because the people in Iraq were missing out on finding the cache now.

Shame that a 9 year get's it and apparently many so called adults don't.

No worries there, actually. If the cache is not un-archived, I shall replace it. If I have to replace it, the cache placement credit will go to the first hider, and everything about the cache will be pulled to the replacement.

I never insinuated that the owner had anything but the best intentions. It would have been nice of the GW4 announcement had been made on the cache page for the cache over here, but I will not cast blame for that oversight. I wold have also asked those visiting the duplicate to take their "smiley," if that is all it meant to them, from the GW4 page and not the one in Iraq, but I am not perfect either, so will reserve judgement on the cache owner's calls. It is also possible good intentions could have unintended consequences. It is difficult to think through all of the possibilities. In this case, altruism morphed into a selfish quest of the smiley (in the worst case) or perhaps bothering folks who have found it (best case). Clearly from the logs, it at least bothers those that found it.

Please take the time to read the note I posted about the owner. To me, this is not about the owner. Speaking of unintended consequences, I would not want the owner to be looked at differently because of this.

I wish this cache meant nothing to me. I admit I was surprised that the logs offended me, since normally I would care a less about something relatively unimportant in life. However, it certainly did, so I thought posting a note may be a way to let those who logged smileys know that it bothered someone else. Those who play this sport and respect others will remove their "finds." Those who do not, well, their "find" will stay as long as the owner allows it, I and some others will continue to be bothered, and we will get over it. The online-memory of something we accomplished will be defaced, but the memory will still be there.

May 29, 2006

BTW here is a little secret that I am sure will have everyone even more up in arms, no pun intended. One cacher near several military bases has allows military folks to log more than one smiley on their caches. Since, as mentioned before, they are not let out much, they can up their numbers like everyone else, with the owner's permission.

Lighten up.

It's just a game

Huh? What kind of "game" is this? Up their numbers like everyone else? Good gravy....

Edited May 29, 2006 by bumblingbs

1.2k · May 29, 2006

Lets stay on topic

5.3k · May 29, 2006

I see as of tonight (8:48PM Pacific time) the cache owner has not deleted the bogus finds on the cache page, I guess he does not care about cachers the are less than honorable.

I also wonder if all the caches that were brought from other states were archive, I know one from Ca. was archived today.

1.1k · May 29, 2006

Lets stay on topic

I know, I know. Didnt'cha see the smilie/laughing emoticons I included in my OT posts above? I just couldn't resist swinging at the Eephus pitch that was served up, esp. with all the trouble I've been stirring up lately.

1.2k · May 29, 2006

I see as of tonight (8:48PM Pacific time) the cache owner has not deleted the bogus finds on the cache page, I guess he does not care about cachers the are less than honorable.

I also wonder if all the caches that were brought from other states were archive, I know one from Ca. was archived today.

The page is locked. The owner cant, at the moment, make any changes.

5.3k · May 29, 2006

then the reviewers shoud delet them. I know they have the ability to do that.

May 29, 2006

Blah...I should stop reading this and go out and find REAL caches...at least I respect my numbers and the others in my area I'm "competing" with...and I can look at others and see how much I respect their numbers in the future. In reality, I respect Jeep Dog's numbers the most right now

Thank you for the kind words. Just for the record, I have some skeletons in my "find" closet. I bring this up only since I have received some rather... um, "passionate" emails, and those that claim I am "holier than thou" will undoubtedly make an effort to plow through my stats to find "infractions" to throw in my face.

1) I logged a cache that I placed. GASP. I am not the cache owner. I was asked to place the cache at a specfic place and coordinates. I used a GPS to get to the location, checked the cache page to ensure the location, and placed the cache. Then I opened the cache, and signed the log (but did not take the "FTF" credit, whatever that is worth). I found the specfic hiding place, and even found the cache, just not at the right spot. I have no intentions of changing this cache to a "note."

2) I have found virtuals and locationless. Several of those were with my daughter, and we have fond memories of the hunt. As soon as she understands enough to get her own account, we will move those to hers, and I will most likely delete them as "finds." I'm 50/50 on this, since they were "appropriate" finds by the rules at the time. I can say that after doing 16 or so combined, that I did not feel as if this was "true" caching, so stopped doing them (or, at least, logging them as "finds," since we made a game of finding locationaless items - had the sheet printed in the car).

3) I solved a riddle and took an "extra" smiley on a cache. I will change that to a "found" note.

At any rate, I suspect you respect my "numbers" in a figurative sense. In case it was in a literal sense, I am just exercising the integrity with which I attempt to apply to this game.

You see, I wish to be respected in this game (figuratively). As such, I attempt as much to show respect to others. Is that not all we can do? Those that have left their "found" logs either are oblivious to the "raging" debate, or flat-out do not care. As I posted earlier, I will get over that, and it helps that I believe the dismissing of the opinions of another cacher will, eventually, come back to them in full.

2.3k · May 29, 2006

Everyone of those should have been a note NOT a find people are greedy and way into their numbers, oh well as long as the soldiers get the message its all good, really dont hurt me much if someone logs a fake find, unless its my cache.

38.2k · May 29, 2006

I wonder if those who logged this cache will realize how foolish it is if they start getting e-mails thanking them for their service from people who saw the "find" in their profile and assumed they served there.

Thank you for the kind words. Just for the record, I have some skeletons in my "find" closet. I bring this up only since I have received some rather... um, "passionate" emails, and those that claim I am "holier than thou" will undoubtedly make an effort to plow through my stats to find "infractions" to throw in my face.

Don't think for a minute they aren't.

Edited May 29, 2006 by briansnat

May 29, 2006

I have just learned that one of you has, WITHOUT MY PERMISSION, placed material on two of my cache pages. While you applaud a cacheowner's right to remove logs deemed innapropriate or offensive, you have placed material on MY cache page that I cannot remove. THAT is extremely offensive!

6.4k · May 29, 2006

I have just learned that one of you has, WITHOUT MY PERMISSION, placed material on two of my cache pages. While you applaud a cacheowner's right to remove logs deemed innapropriate or offensive, you have placed material on MY cache page that I cannot remove. THAT is extremely offensive!

Perhaps you can point us to the offensive material so we can see what you're talking about?

If it's offensive then it should also be reported to contact@Groundspeak.com and they can handle the problem.

Of course, if it's what I suspect, you might not want to protest too loudly because the only thing the owners of geocaching.com are likely to find offensive about the situation are the caches themselves that openly violate their guidelines for publishing a cache.

May 29, 2006

Once again you have missed the point.

What is offensive is the act of placing unremovable material on my cache page without my permission. The content is irrelevant...it is the act itself that is wrong.

Edited May 29, 2006 by JerseyGirl & Bruno

38.2k · May 29, 2006

Once again you have missed the point.

What is offensive is the act of placing unremovable material on my cache page without my permission. The content is irrelevant...it is the act itself that is wrong.

What is not removable? An owner can edit any of the content on the pages and delete most logs.

3.5k · May 29, 2006

The only thing I can think of that's unremovable is a log from a reviewer. I'm not sure why that would be offensive, though.

Bret

3.9k · May 29, 2006

I have just learned that one of you has, WITHOUT MY PERMISSION, placed material on two of my cache pages. While you applaud a cacheowner's right to remove logs deemed innapropriate or offensive, you have placed material on MY cache page that I cannot remove. THAT is extremely offensive!

I see what you mean, and I agree with you in your perception. After reading your email and reviewing your cache pages, it appears that you are referring to your two caches -- both located in Florida -- that have been logged as finds by people who were in Texas (likely at GW4) at the time of the find. Very WEIRD! That is indeed mind-boggling, as these are obviously fake finds. So, yes, I agree with you -- I too would feel upset if folks logged fake finds on my geocaches from 1,000 miles away! You have every right to be upset with these fraudulent finds, in my book! Bless you for noticing them and speaking up about it!

You may wish to deal with this fake find problem the same way that I did recently with a fake finder on one of our Psycho Caches (Psycho Urban Cache #9) -- I left his fake find log in place, but I inserted a log note just above it noting that the find was a fraudlent find claim, and that it had been made by a cache account which owned a number of other fraudulent finds as well, and then I discussed the fake find log issue, disclosing the name of the "finder" as well, on a thread devoted to that topic on the national forums. You may wish to do the same with the folks who logged the fake finds on your two caches. In any case, I am sorry that this happened to you. It must be astounding to you that folks who were in Texas were logging finds on your cache which is located in Florida! I guess some people will stoop to almost anything to get a find, but you are right -- you do not have to put up with it! I thank you for noticing this problem and voicing your concern about fake finds.

6.4k · May 29, 2006

Once again you have missed the point.

What is offensive is the act of placing unremovable material on my cache page without my permission. The content is irrelevant...it is the act itself that is wrong.

That depends. If the "offensive material" that you can't remove is something that the owners of the website you are using to host your cache page intended to be there, there is nothing wrong.

As I said before, if it is something truly offensive, email the contact@ address and they will remove it. However, in this case it looks like it's being used exactly for one of the reasons TPTB designed it for.

The only thing wrong I see is the act of taking a cache after it's been listed on this website and changing it into a cache that TPTB would never allow to be listed if they knew about it. The only reason you are mad is someone is pointing this out, and hopefully TPTB are looking.

Perhaps you should stop trying to circumvent the guidelines and delete all the logs off your caches that don't meet those guidelines, since you DID agree to do that as a condition of getting your cache listed on geocaching.com.

3.9k · May 29, 2006

Once again you have missed the point.

What is offensive is the act of placing unremovable material on my cache page without my permission. The content is irrelevant...it is the act itself that is wrong.

What is not removable? An owner can edit any of the content on the pages and delete most logs.

Per my earlier email, it seems that she is concerned about fake finds having been placed on her cache pages by folks who were really in Texas at the time of their "find". To my best knowledge, and in my own experience, she can -- as the cache owner -- indeed delete those fake find logs from her cache pages, so I am not sure why she is complaing that she cannot remove them.

6.4k · May 29, 2006

What is not removable? An owner can edit any of the content on the pages and delete most logs.

The only thing I can think of that's unremovable is a log from a reviewer. I'm not sure why that would be offensive, though.

Bret

Bookmark lists such as this one that point out caches that are being used to circumvent the listing guidelines can not be deleted by the cache owner.

3.5k · May 29, 2006

Oohhhh that. Yeah...I forgot about those.

May 29, 2006

Clarification...None of my caches has been logged by anyone while attending GW4.

Mopar is correct in surmising that it is the Bookmark List that I find annoying and offensive. If you don't like my caches, or the way I play this GAME, so be it. Post your OPINION on the Forum and move on...but your OPINION should not be made a permanent part of MY cache page. It's like saying that I have a right to put a tattoo on your arm, whether you like it or not, as long as that tattoo represents my opinion.

May 29, 2006

FYI, I have deleted a log from someone who, while logging my (or rather Bruno's) archived cache at an event, has then posted here on the Forum that they find the practice offensive.

6.4k · May 29, 2006

Clarification...None of my caches has been logged by anyone while attending GW4.

Mopar is correct in surmising that it is the Bookmark List that I find annoying and offensive. If you don't like my caches, or the way I play this GAME, so be it. Post your OPINION on the Forum and move on...but your OPINION should not be made a permanent part of MY cache page. It's like saying that I have a right to put a tattoo on your arm, whether you like it or not, as long as that tattoo represents my opinion.

contact@Groundspeak.com .......

HOWEVER, in this case it's NOT an opinion. It's a FACT that GC.com has not allowed moving caches in many years. They would not knowingly allow a cache that moves from event to event hidden in someones pocket to be listed on their website. Caches that do violate the guidelines you agreed to follow and should must be archived.

The owner of the website has stated in the past that he considers the use of caches like this to be an abuse of the system.

Edited May 29, 2006 by Mopar

3.1k · May 29, 2006

Clarification...None of my caches has been logged by anyone while attending GW4.

Mopar is correct in surmising that it is the Bookmark List that I find annoying and offensive. If you don't like my caches, or the way I play this GAME, so be it. Post your OPINION on the Forum and move on...but your OPINION should not be made a permanent part of MY cache page. It's like saying that I have a right to put a tattoo on your arm, whether you like it or not, as long as that tattoo represents my opinion.

You break the guidelines and then someone calls you out on it and that offends you?

Tough...play with in the guidelines and then you will be left alone. Caches are not meant to be hidden in pockets but rather in the woods or a parking lot...

3.9k · May 29, 2006

Clarification...None of my caches has been logged by anyone while attending GW4.

Mopar is correct in surmising that it is the Bookmark List that I find annoying and offensive. If you don't like my caches, or the way I play this GAME, so be it. Post your OPINION on the Forum and move on...but your OPINION should not be made a permanent part of MY cache page. It's like saying that I have a right to put a tattoo on your arm, whether you like it or not, as long as that tattoo represents my opinion.

Oh.... so you seem to be saying that it was not fake finds from Texas, but rather, other fake finds on your caches, which irritated you. But now you are also talking about a bookmark list, too, which also irritated you. Let me take a look at that bookmark list.... Okay, it seems that the bookmark list which is irritating you is one about "fake finds". However, I am confused: why would your caches be on a "fake finds" bookmark list, since we already know that you seem to be very vociferous in your opposition to fake finds and probably remove them from your cache listing pages within minutes of noticing them?

Well, this is all a bit beyond me... I am just a country boy, and there are some things which are so complex that they lose me...

6.1k · May 29, 2006

This cache is ACTIVE but it is NOT at the coords listed. Is it a puzzle cache? NO. It is a pocket cache. I consider this an abuse of the system, now we have live, active, caches being carried around to be logged.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...&log=y&decrypt=

Note: This cache was archived soon after this was posted

Edited May 29, 2006 by 4wheelin_fool

2.1k · May 29, 2006

...It's like saying that I have a right to put a tattoo on your arm, whether you like it or not, as long as that tattoo represents my opinion.

But you requested that your cache be listed for any and all to find. I assume you have not made your arm available for public use. It would seem appropriate to me that people post Should Be Archived notes on your pocket cache.

6.1k · May 29, 2006

Clarification...None of my caches has been logged by anyone while attending GW4.

Mopar is correct in surmising that it is the Bookmark List that I find annoying and offensive. If you don't like my caches, or the way I play this GAME, so be it. Post your OPINION on the Forum and move on...but your OPINION should not be made a permanent part of MY cache page. It's like saying that I have a right to put a tattoo on your arm, whether you like it or not, as long as that tattoo represents my opinion.

You are being awful possessive about a page which does not belong to you, but belongs to geocaching.com, and is located on someone else's machine.

3.9k · May 29, 2006

You get a special icon for logging the event?

Well then.. even though I'm not there, I want the icon.

I'm gonna log a find on the event.

I hope it doesn't create a controversy.

:rolleyes:

3.9k · May 29, 2006

As usual Mopar is my hero. Keep up the good work!

I really enjoy reading about your research. It amazes and amuses me!

Let me know next time you travel out here and I'll hike .... well... I'll buy you dinner .

I am NOT at GW4.

I am at home.

I will not get to log all those fake, duplicate, pocket, archived, nor sitting on a table caches there.

I will continue to go find some caches around here the old fashioned way... you know.. go find them, and sign the logbook INSIDE the cache..

Ah, a voice of sanity! Thank you, Mopar, for your research, and thank you, VenturaKids, for your humor.

Oh, I gotta run now, as I'm in the midst of making multiple photocopies "log sheets" for of all our caches, to be sent via mail, Fedex and UPS to my geofriends around the world for finds!

May 29, 2006

Oh, I gotta run now, as I'm in the midst of making multiple photocopies "log sheets" for of all our caches, to be sent via mail, Fedex and UPS to my geofriends around the world for finds!

May I have some, please?

And don't forget to include a self-addressed, stamped envelope. That way I don't even have to find the Post Office.

May 29, 2006

Clarification...None of my caches has been logged by anyone while attending GW4.

No, they weren't. But one was logged the same day at another event that's over 75 miles away from the original cache coordinates. Isn't the principle here the same?

I'm curious - if someone were to visit the coordinates listed on the cache page, would they actually find a cache there? Or do all the local geocachers know that this one lives in your pocket? Are there two caches? I'm a bit confused how this "pocket cache" thing works.

I think the only people that the bookmark list offends are those who found the cache at the posted coordinates (6 out of a total 61 logs). If you want to play a game on gc.com that falls outside the site's guidelines, you should probably expect to get some complaints.

If you hadn't made such a fuss about the bookmark list, I (and probably several others) would have never seen or cared about your cache. Just a thought.

Edited May 29, 2006 by Mary&Dave

May 30, 2006

And if you all had better things to do than monitor caches owned by strangers, located thousands of miles away from you I never would have been offended in the first place.

I currently have 50 active caches, plus 3 that are awaiting permits from the local government agency. Of that total you have chosen to target one, plus one that is already archived. What your invasive behavior is making me consider doing is archiving all of my caches and never placing another. Why should I spend the time and money to stock and place caches? Why should I take endless amounts of time to make sure all of my caches have coords as accurate as possible? Why should I take responsibility to maintain these caches in good condition for others to find? Why...so that people like you, located many miles away can criticize and demean my efforts? I think not.

Right now, after the virtual lashing I've taken in this forum today, I have a strong desire to archive all of my caches and never place another. I've spoken to others that have been affected by your long-distance terrorism and others feel the same way.

However I am more responsible than that. I know that I owe it to the LOCAL gc community to continue to place quality caches...that is, caches with solid, weatherproof containers, in interesting locations, with the best coords I can obtain. So my caches will remain active and I will continue to place more.

And if any of you ever get off your lazy butts and away from your computer screens and choose to cache in Florida, I invite you to come find my hides.

Edited May 30, 2006 by JerseyGirl & Bruno

3.1k · May 30, 2006

Jersey Girl -- No one is attacking your caches that are in solid, weatherproof containers, in interesting locations, with the best coords you can obtain. The ones people have problems with are the ones that are not out in the wild but only appear at events. That is against the guidelines and for you to be so upset that people are pointing that out is mind boggling. Just admit when you have been caught doing wrong, apologize and then move on.

I just might get off my lazy butt and head down to FL and find one of your nicly maintained caches that are out in the wild. Thanks for the offer. You come on up to Middle Georgia and find one of ours too.

9.3k · May 30, 2006

I think this game is between the hider and the finder. And Groundspeak, sort of. It's not a LIE, it's how they play the game.

Thank you for your refreshing diversion, and alternate viewpoint. My earlier "holier than thou" comment might have seemed sarcastic, but it merely referred to those folks who got their feelings hurt by how someone else plays a game.

This is not a competition. The cacher who dies with the most smileys does not win. Calling folks "liars" and "cheaters" because they happen to play differently than you is inflammatory at best, downright insulting at worst. What surprises me the most is that Groundspeak allows all these hurled insults without a single warning. By not acting upon those who insult others in their forums, they are setting a standard.

Just my $0.02 from the cheap seats.

Post script; JerseyGirl, there are some of us who love your caches.

May 30, 2006

I will admit, I was tired yesterday, and I remember rethinking this topic after reading the first few posts of it, but for the life of me, I can't remember posting anything negative about pocket caches. Looking thru my posting history comes up with a post on May 8th saying I didn't see a big deal about it since there was a signed log. I was the one that Jersey Girl deleted the find of her PC from the celebrate your refund event back on apr 15. Since I was rethinking this matter in my head, and had attended and signed a few PC's at the Team Cache Divers 3-4-1 Celebration that was on the 27th but had not gotten around to logging my finds yet for the day, I decided to not do 'finds' on them. I have also deleted the log of the other pocket cache that I had found on Apr 15. To me its not that big of a deal.

I don't remember making a post in this or any other thread regarding pocket caches, if I have, the post was axed by a moderator with no message coming to me. If there was a post, Jersey Girl, I am sorry for offending you, if there wasn't a post, you sure are getting good at reading minds!

*editville*

Reading thru my entire posting history (28 posts, thats a quick read) the only time where I mentioned pocketcaches that I saw at all was in this post:

It definately seems that I don't have the majority opinion, but I have signed a few pocket caches, its not a big deal, I found and physically signed the logbook, I also found the cache that was hidden in the meeting area as well and signed it, I also signed a few caches that were not approved yet but were placed for the event. It was fun, I met a ton of geocachers in my part of the state, and now I've got some new people to go caching with.

For me, its not about the numbers, its about having fun. I won't log a find on a cache that I have not signed, if its a pocket cache, or a travel bug that is on a living creature, so be it. (Hi Bruno)

Do we really need so many rules lawyers in a game thats supposed to be fun?

Again, sorry for anything I may have done to make you upset Jersey Girl (and bruno)

Edited May 30, 2006 by norsehawk

22k · May 30, 2006

I think this game is between the hider and the finder. And Groundspeak, sort of. It's not a LIE, it's how they play the game.

Thank you for your refreshing diversion, and alternate viewpoint. My earlier "holier than thou" comment might have seemed sarcastic, but it merely referred to those folks who got their feelings hurt by how someone else plays a game.

This is not a competition. The cacher who dies with the most smileys does not win. Calling folks "liars" and "cheaters" because they happen to play differently than you is inflammatory at best, downright insulting at worst. What surprises me the most is that Groundspeak allows all these hurled insults without a single warning. By not acting upon those who insult others in their forums, they are setting a standard.

Just my $0.02 from the cheap seats.

Post script; JerseyGirl, there are some of us who love your caches.

I completely agree, this is not a competition.

Finding 100 or 200, or 500 is an achievement.

Isn't it?

edited only for spelling

Edited May 30, 2006 by BlueDeuce

38.2k · May 30, 2006

I 've spoken to others that have been affected by your long-distance terrorism...

I think we're going a bit overboard with hyperbole here. Its a flippin' bookmark.

5.9k · May 30, 2006

I currently have 50 active caches, plus 3 that are awaiting permits from the local government agency.

Good! Thank you! I love quality caches!

Why...so that people like you, located many miles away can criticize and demean my efforts? I think not.

There is nothing demeaning. Either the cache follows the rules or it does not. If it doesn't, it should not be listed here. Sorry, that's just the way it is. You can't tackle a base runner stealing second in baseball. Those are the rules. If you do, you've cheated. Geocaching has (thankfully) very few rules and no score, so how much worse is it to cheat at it?

I've spoken to others that have been affected by your long-distance terrorism and others feel the same way.

Terrorism? c'mon. Be an adult, it's a bookmark that tells nothing more than the truth. It exposes people cheating at a simple scoreless game, that's a long way from terrorism. Why is it that "it's just a game" when cachers cheat, but suddenly it's terrorism if I expose it?

I know that I owe it to the LOCAL gc community to continue to place quality caches...that is, caches with solid, weatherproof containers, in interesting locations, with the best coords I can obtain. So my caches will remain active and I will continue to place more.

Thank you! Again, quality caches are always appreciated. Learn from the experience and move on. I have no dislike for you or any of your caches that are within the guidelines of this site. If I found myself in your area I would seek out one of your quality caches and praise them in my log.

And if any of you ever get off your lazy butts and away from your computer screens and choose to cache in Florida, I invite you to come find my hides.

Look at my cache hides darling, nothing lazy about them. Trust me.

Edited May 30, 2006 by Criminal

10.2k · May 30, 2006

I 've spoken to others that have been affected by your long-distance terrorism...

I think we're going a bit overboard with hyperbole here. Its a flippin' bookmark.

Well, I suppose it's better than Goodwin being invoked with a Nazi reference. Less predictable, at the very least.

May 30, 2006

Hey, since there are rules against having "moving caches" perhaps all these cache from all over the world sitting on a table in TX should be archived.

Excellent point.

Since owners can only move caches .1 mile all of these caches should be disabled or archived.

What's the point of posting coordinates? What's the point of going on the hikes? What's the point of exerting any effort if I can just wait around and have someone bring the cache to me?

Bret

We couldn't agree more! We traveled long distances and enjoyed wonderful hikes to find two of the ape caches. It cheapens the sport when the cache can be brought to an event like this! What is the point? The cache isn't really "found" at the event! It's actually just handed to someone to sign. This is a game of adventure and discovery.

We love our numbers but this is WAY TOO FAR! We log what we find and that is the enjoyment for us!

6.4k · May 30, 2006

We couldn't agree more! We traveled long distances and enjoyed wonderful hikes to find two of the ape caches. It cheapens the sport when the cache can be brought to an event like this! What is the point? The cache isn't really "found" at the event! It's actually just handed to someone to sign. This is a game of adventure and discovery.

We love our numbers but this is WAY TOO FAR! We log what we find and that is the enjoyment for us!

Funny you should mention those APE caches. Rumor has it that the owners of those caches were asked if they could be borrowed so everyone at GW4 could log it. Obviously at least those cache owners have some ethics because I haven't noticed any TX logs on them.

May 30, 2006

Funny you should mention those APE caches. Rumor has it that the owners of those caches were asked if they could be borrowed so everyone at GW4 could log it. Obviously at least those cache owners have some ethics because I haven't noticed any TX logs on them.

Since this reply came in on a thread that started with my opinion of one cache that was at GW4, I would like to point out the that owner of the cache in question has ethics. He is attempting to get everything back on an even keel, and has apparently is remorseful about the unintended outcome.

Another "for the record," I never demanded the cache be archived, the owner delete finds, nor even folks change how they logged the cache. Would it be nice if either of the latter two occured? Would that make me "happy?" Well, yes, but I do not have unrealistic expectations everything in GC occurs to placate my happiness.

I tossed out my feelings on the cache in question. Those that can see the issue that the cache is more than "another smilie" to those that have actually been to the cache, and respect other cachers, I assume would change their logs. Those that did not see the issue, or perhaps saw the issue but just do not care about how others value the cache, I assume would leave as finds.

The same goes for the cache owner.

Were the guidelines "abused?" (I do not like "abused.") Well, certainly believe that they were, but that is GC.com's judgement to determine, not mine. Again, I floated my opinion to be used in weighing decisions.

Finally, I have been asked why I have posted this here. Why not? Is this not the purpose of the forums? After posting a note on the cache page, I received some not-so-nice emails (not from the same person as Mopar, so please do not go and flame that fellow out). Now, a resonable person who is respectful of others may wander, when something like this happens, "did I miss something, and have I gone overboard?" and query the community at large.

2.3k · May 30, 2006

I hope this method of "play" doesnt catch on in Arizona. We have a solid community here. I would hate to see this kind of garbage start to become the "norm" of caching.

There are cachers here in Arizona who have been playing it 'loose and fast' with claiming finds for several years now, and I imagine it is the same everywhere. Yea, I can name names, but I am not going to. They know who they are. There will always be a certain percentage of people doing that, and there will be others who can stand by each and every single one of their rock-solid finds.

It's human nature. Just like the idiots who throw their cigarette out the window and unknowingly burn down half this state, some people just don't 'get it'....

What can ya do?

24.7k · May 30, 2006

And if you all had better things to do than monitor caches owned by strangers, located thousands of miles away from you I never would have been offended in the first place.

I currently have 50 active caches, plus 3 that are awaiting permits from the local government agency. Of that total you have chosen to target one, plus one that is already archived. What your invasive behavior is making me consider doing is archiving all of my caches and never placing another. Why should I spend the time and money to stock and place caches? Why should I take endless amounts of time to make sure all of my caches have coords as accurate as possible? Why should I take responsibility to maintain these caches in good condition for others to find? Why...so that people like you, located many miles away can criticize and demean my efforts? I think not.

Right now, after the virtual lashing I've taken in this forum today, I have a strong desire to archive all of my caches and never place another. I've spoken to others that have been affected by your long-distance terrorism and others feel the same way.

However I am more responsible than that. I know that I owe it to the LOCAL gc community to continue to place quality caches...that is, caches with solid, weatherproof containers, in interesting locations, with the best coords I can obtain. So my caches will remain active and I will continue to place more.

And if any of you ever get off your lazy butts and away from your computer screens and choose to cache in Florida, I invite you to come find my hides.

Here is a simple list of rules to live by.

First, This is a forum. It's for discussion. I sure as heck didn't look up some random cache to gripe about. S someone else noticed something and thought it worth mentioning and asked for an opinion. Thats exactly what a forum is for.

Second, your skin is too thin. You say you would not have been offended in the first place but then you are offended now. Then you talk about taking your ball and going home. Then you rub our noses in not being locals. You need a thicker skin.

Third if the majority of opinions is going against you there are two that can be happening. You are wrong, or you are facing a mob. If it's a mob, you can't win and you need to get out of dodge. If you are wrong, well, maybe you should rethink things.

Fourth: You need to be able to tell a difference of opinion apart from terrorism. If this were terrorism someone you know would be dead as a direct result. Since it's a forum at best someone you know might have gotten a bruised ego or have had their argument crushed. Thats a big difference.

Fifth: It's a small world when it comes to geocaching. Some of your locals will make it to my state and find some of my caches and vice versa. You may like your local caches but the people you are scorning in this thread may turn out to be one of your next finders. Most of them would actually write a decent log instead of TNLN TFTC.

Sixth: Your lazy butt was camped out in front of the computer screen typing out that message just the same as everone else. My lazy butt typed this message out later. My lazy butt helped someone move this weekend, hauled garage sale stuff, BBQ'd, had a movie night with the kids, took folks out to Chinese food, changed out a washer for another learned the other was broken and changed them out again, and I'm sure a few other things. Overall it was a lazy weekend What you need to know is that everyones lazy butt has a real life it's attached too.

Seventh: Even though it was apparently your cache, the discussion isn't personal so much as a situation that people would like to debate. If your's sparked the conversation, such is life.

Eights: Anyone who would directly threaten you or email you a nasty gram over this isn't worth the effort of you even being annoyed at them. It takes all kinds to fill the world and some step over the bounds. A forum discussion should remain in the forum.

2.3k · May 30, 2006

Come on, RK, don't hold back...tell us how you REALLY feel...

1.5k · May 30, 2006

So does this mean if we did not even go to GW4 we can still log it to get the brand new icon??/

Is My Opinion Overboard?

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