Mega-event Cache

[alistair_uk]

I have just noticed a Mega-event cache type has been announced.

 

In summary it is an event that will attract 500 people, and the bar may be raised to 750. Correct me if I am wrong but I think it is highly unlikely that we will ever manage one of these in the UK (and possibly Europe) because of the numbers required.

 

Personally I like the idea as it does separate the more local event like the Newcastle one from the larger like the North Yorkshire event. So is it worth proposing that we use different levels of expected number in different countries?

Edited May 26, 2006 by alistair_uk

[+Simply Paul]

I dare say a yearly 'national' cache event in this country might get Mega status, even if it didn't (couldn't?) draw 500 visitors. Ask a friendly Reviewer how they interpret the guidelines for the UK when it comes to this new form of event.

[+The Golem]

I'm sure this information is readily available, but could someone tell me how many active cachers are there in the Uk at the moment - my definition of active is with 10 or more finds, the most recent within the past 3 months...

[Lactodorum]

I dare say a yearly 'national' cache event in this country might get Mega status, even if it didn't (couldn't?) draw 500 visitors. Ask a friendly Reviewer how they interpret the guidelines for the UK when it comes to this new form of event.

 

When a guideline is published you can rely on local reviewers to apply it with discretion. After all, what are local reviewers for if not to take account of local situations?

[+Simply Paul]

Bingo

 

Now, I suggest it's held somewhere central (is there a nice big park under 20 miles from the motorway, somewhere in the triangle between the M6, M42 and the M1? We'd need a weekend (longer the better, so when's the August bank holiday?) when the football/other major sporting event's not on... Lots of caches to do close-by... Hummm...

[+rutson]

I say we GFI.

 

Anyone vaguely in that area could bring it all together? I reckon with enough notice we could hit 150+.

 

Not SURE about the August Bank Holiday, folk tend to have other plans.

[alistair_uk]

When a guideline is published you can rely on local reviewers to apply it with discretion. After all, what are local reviewers for if not to take account of local situations?

You missed a trick there, you should have pointed out that reviewers are bound by the guidelines so will need to be supplied with copious quantities of alcohol so you see double, or possibly treble.

 

I was not thinking that we should try and arrange an event that would comply with the guideline, I was suggesting that the distinction was good but we are on a different scale in the UK and possibly should suggest the 500 barrier be lowered for us and other smaller countries.

[+Learned Gerbil]

When a guideline is published you can rely on local reviewers to apply it with discretion. After all, what are local reviewers for if not to take account of local situations?

You missed a trick there, you should have pointed out that reviewers are bound by the guidelines so will need to be supplied with copious quantities of alcohol so you see double, or possibly treble.

 

I was not thinking that we should try and arrange an event that would comply with the guideline, I was suggesting that the distinction was good but we are on a different scale in the UK and possibly should suggest the 500 barrier be lowered for us and other smaller countries.

 

Lets make sure I have this right, under the guidlines I can submit an event, and if I convince the reviewer there will be 500 or 750 or whatever attendees, I get this mega status for the event. So what happens if due to a sudden and dramatic late August snowstorm three men and a gerbi lturn up, does the "mega" status still stand? Surely such a status can only be granted after the event, otherwise it makes no sense and has no value.

 

I may be a skeptic, but it looks very much like an invitation for the old "wow" argument for getting rid of virtuals being resurected. I mean, my event is bound to be bigger and better than your event!

[+Jaz666]

ooooh, a new icon for people to get on their profile.

I can see these type of events becoming very popular!

[+Simply Paul]

I suspect you'd need to show your event had national appeal before the mods would put it forward as a mega event. But we're missing the important bit. What could we call such a meet? Some (or all?) of these may have been used before:

 

Cachestock

The Caching Party in the Park

Cacheageddon

The Uber Meet

MegaCache 2006

Or something much, much better...

[SlytherinAlex]

I don't think you should worry about it. It's just another icon. Who cares??

 

Can't stop, I'm on my way to GeoWoodstock4.

 

a.

[+welch]

I have just noticed a Mega-event cache type has been announced.

 

In summary it is an event that will attract 500 people, and the bar may be raised to 750. Correct me if I am wrong but I think it is highly unlikely that we will ever manage one of these in the UK (and possibly Europe) because of the numbers required.

 

....

 

I think that it eliminates all but a very few events, even in the USA (which is ok since that seems to be the way TPTB want it). I kinda figure Groundspeak wanted a way to allow Geowoodstock to advert to more people without having to explain why other events wouldn't be allowed to do it (whatever they end up allowing them to do). I mean they could just say 'we wanted to' but would have to endlessly be saying no to everyone else without a 'good' reason . (At least thats the way I see, but I've been told im being cynical today)

[+The Hokesters]

Oooh - I feel a new icon coming on

[+rutson]

You've only just got the event one Simon, steady on

[+Learned Gerbil]

I can't see how specifying a size, then being prepared to increase it is anything other than subjective when other cache types have been banished precisely becasue they were too subjective. The fact that The required number can be increased if TPTB want to means the criteria are more subjective not less. How such a subjective definition of the cache type can be applied in advance for new caches which will lead to complaints. I can see this cache type being dropped sharply when tTPTB see it is too much trouble arguing why such nd such an event did or did not apply, so I would try and get this icon while you can if you are an icon hunter!

 

Imagin the rows when an event is refused the icon only for well more than the planned numbers turnin up on the day? Presumably the cache type will need to be applied for even before the cache is published and popularity cannot be properly assessed as no-one will know about the event! What would make much more sense to me is if the icon was awarded after the event. The nthere would be an incentive to go to popular events in the hopee that you would contribute to exceed the magic number and the event being awarded the mega title and the icon.

 

However it is done there will be attempts at abuse, for example in other hobbies I have been involved in where the published status of events depends on either the numbers attending or the numbers of exhibits entered, people deliberatly create sock puppets, or ringers to artificially push up the numbers in advance, only for a hig status event to end up a flop when the numbers end up being much lower than expected, despite the event being huge on paper. Even if the reviewers are able to say tha tthis sort of thing looks suspicious and reject the mega status, pushing up event size artificially is likely to spread into ordinary events as people start league tables of event size to see how close people are to getting mega status.

 

Bwfore anyone says, "don't be silly, it won't ever happen" I remember once travelling to judge a major event in Belgium tha thad been advertised internationally and had invited judges from Britain, The Netherlands and Scanadavia. There were loads of pople there, but it was only when the prizes were awarded at the end that it turned out almost every exhibit was entered in the names of the organiser, his wife, one of their four children, his parents, her parents, his sister, her sibblings, his sister's fiance etc etc.

 

I just don't really understand why we need it.

[+Cryptik Souls Crew]

This part of the post made me think it would be down to Groundspeak in the US, rather than our reviewers to decide if we can have one:

 

In order to have your event qualified and published as a Mega-Event cache, please send an email to contact@Groundspeak.com with details of the event. Groundspeak approval will be required.

 

Bah! Just finished collecting all the icons, and they go and bring a new one out....

[+Simply Paul]

I just don't really understand why we need it.

Because size matters? I do see your point/s though. When I read the news I did wonder what it was intended to achieve, and concluded it was to promote very large, national cache events rather than our current ikkle local-interest ones - some of which already draw visitors from every corner of the country. On balance, the new icon is a bit divisive, but harmless. I think.

 

CSC: Yes, but if you were to put your request through to Groundspeak via a UK mod, then that could only help your application, surely?

Edited May 27, 2006 by Simply Paul

[+rutson]

There are certain groups of hard-core nuts who like to travel far an wide to events, so I'm told

 

The best events I've been to have had a cross-section of cachers from all around the country.

[Lactodorum]

I dare say a yearly 'national' cache event in this country might get Mega status, even if it didn't (couldn't?) draw 500 visitors. Ask a friendly Reviewer how they interpret the guidelines for the UK when it comes to this new form of event.

 

When a guideline is published you can rely on local reviewers to apply it with discretion. After all, what are local reviewers for if not to take account of local situations?

 

I have checked the situation and it is Groundspeak that determine whether or not an event qualifies as "Mega". I have been told that an event would qualify if, say, we had an EU event that pulled from more than one country and enough people signed up to come. The MEGA event is not designed for everyone or every situation. It for those special times when you happen to get something that large.

 

So who fancies organising the first pan-European event?

[+Mr'D]

Bah! Just finished collecting all the icons, and they go and bring a new one out....

yeah... who says we are numbers men????

 

[+John Stead]

If, say, we had an EU event that pulled from more than one country and enough people signed up to come

So who fancies organising the first pan-European event?

 

I would venture to suggest that the event that Dave (Mancunian Pyrocacher) organised last year which took place on the Holyhead to Dublin ferry and the one which followed in Dublin city would have qualified as it involved cachers from two countries

Then there is the one which is being set up in Anglesey to which the Irish cachers are also invited - maybe the organizer is a bit reticent about putting this forward in view of his recent elevation to the hierarchy of geocaching but surely an independent approver could do something about it?

[Lactodorum]

If, say, we had an EU event that pulled from more than one country and enough people signed up to come

So who fancies organising the first pan-European event?

 

I would venture to suggest that the event that Dave (Mancunian Pyrocacher) organised last year which took place on the Holyhead to Dublin ferry and the one which followed in Dublin city would have qualified as it involved cachers from two countries

Then there is the one which is being set up in Anglesey to which the Irish cachers are also invited - maybe the organizer is a bit reticent about putting this forward in view of his recent elevation to the hierarchy of geocaching but surely an independent approver could do something about it?

 

No it wouldn't, not unless 500+ people turned up on the ferry to join in the event. Being International isn't the criterion, being BIGis.

[+Simply Paul]

The UK, being an overpriced island on the edge of the EU is just the wrong place for an EU event, sadly. France would be perfect, if it wasn't for the lack of interest and caches there...

 

Hang on, a cache held in England might appeal to foreigners; the Welsh and the Scots. Perhaps that might fool the folks over the ocean

[+rutson]

No it wouldn't, not unless 500+ people turned up on the ferry to join in the event.

 

Hmmm... about 496 short then, IIRC.

[+Cryptik Souls Crew]

I think this side of the pond we are going to struggle to do this. The USA has loads of cachers and no language barrier to worry about.

 

Even with the combined turn out of all the events on CITO day in the UK this year we would still be well short, the only way I could see it happening is expanding into Europe, which brings with it many complications. I wouldn't relish trying to organise an event in say, Germany for 500+ people!

 

Looks like another trip to the USA is in order for the hardcore icon hunters..

[alistair_uk]

If we had one big event in the UK, a big one that lasted a couple of days and probably included some sort of conference and entertainment that people could camp, hostel or hotel it (ie. as full and accessible as possible), how many cachers do you think would attend?

[+Hillhappy1]

Sounds like the Midlands would be a good place for a Mega Event.

As SP states, M1,M42,M6 not forgetting the M69, Coventry,Birmingham and

East Midlands Airports for our continental cousins to come in by.

Easy access from North South East and West.

Lots of parks, caches, conference centres (if you want to go that way).

 

As for numbers it depends on how well the event is publicised in the

geocaching community and the timing is crucial.

What is a bank holiday here probably isn't abroad.

 

Sounds good to me though.

[SlytherinAlex]

 

So who fancies organising the first pan-European event?

I'm all for it. It's a while since we panned Europe.

 

Alex (just back from GW4)

[+harrogate hunters]

I dare say a yearly 'national' cache event in this country might get Mega status, even if it didn't (couldn't?) draw 500 visitors. Ask a friendly Reviewer how they interpret the guidelines for the UK when it comes to this new form of event.

 

When a guideline is published you can rely on local reviewers to apply it with discretion. After all, what are local reviewers for if not to take account of local situations?

 

I have checked the situation and it is Groundspeak that determine whether or not an event qualifies as "Mega". I have been told that an event would qualify if, say, we had an EU event that pulled from more than one country and enough people signed up to come. The MEGA event is not designed for everyone or every situation. It for those special times when you happen to get something that large.

 

So who fancies organising the first pan-European event?

 

Why not all come to the Mega Event on 17th June 2006 ! LOL !

 

Last year we had 130 + people turn up... with a couple of cachers from other countries (Sweden springs to mind !)

 

You never know North Yorkshire Meet Year 3 might be the first Mega Event this year !!!

 

Please warn me if so... as event organiser I might panic and go to France caching for the day !

[Moss Trooper]

I dare say a yearly 'national' cache event in this country might get Mega status, even if it didn't (couldn't?) draw 500 visitors. Ask a friendly Reviewer how they interpret the guidelines for the UK when it comes to this new form of event.

 

When a guideline is published you can rely on local reviewers to apply it with discretion. After all, what are local reviewers for if not to take account of local situations?

 

I have checked the situation and it is Groundspeak that determine whether or not an event qualifies as "Mega". I have been told that an event would qualify if, say, we had an EU event that pulled from more than one country and enough people signed up to come. The MEGA event is not designed for everyone or every situation. It for those special times when you happen to get something that large.

 

So who fancies organising the first pan-European event?

 

Well we do have 3 country's already England, Scotland and Wales, without getting your feet wet and Ireland and Northern Ireland if you do, and not forgetting wor Little Isle of Man.

 

We don't even need to cross the channel..

[+Teasel]

Is the expectation that the 500 people will mostly already be geocachers (ie found the site through geocaching.com)? For example the HCC event in Hampshire drew in well over 1000 people, which certainly counts as MEGA in my book, yet "only" around 100 of those present were geocachers. Where would an event such as this sit?

[+The Hokesters]

Anyone else spot US-centric bunkum again?

[+Learned Gerbil]

A skeptic might think there is an opportunity behind all this to sell sponsorship for mega events.

[+sTeamTraen]

So who fancies organising the first pan-European event?

 

Does an event with 40 teams and almost 100 people coming from six different countries count? If so, you're a year late.

[+sTeamTraen]

I wouldn't relish trying to organise an event in say, Germany for 500+ people!

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006200424,00.html

 

Fill in your own joke here... while whistling the theme tune from "The Great Escape".

[+Mustard Devil]

This post probably wont make a difference but......Mega Event status was NOT confirmed for GW4 untill JoGps

gave the welcoming speech just before the evening meal was served at 5:30PM.

I was there and there were over 500 in attendance!

[alistair_uk]

Okay, okay, hold on a moment. Having looked back I think we have gone off track worrying about the umber of countries, it is the number or attendees that we need to worry about. It is unlikely that we will pull 500 people from the UK and ROI and I guess this is why the suggestion of going pan European.

 

First as no one appears interested in talking to Groudspeak to lower the bar for the numbers I guess I will stop worrying about it.

 

It is not totally imposable to do this, especially if we take a couple of current events and hold them together.

 

As for the location don't fall in to the trap of picking somewhere geographically central, it will need to be somewhere accessible (for the UK and EU visitors) and low cost. One peace of advice I have is DO NOT PICK A LOCATION FIRST as this drives the costs up.

 

If you had not guessed I am also throwing my hat in to the ring to help organise such an event but I am being my usual sceptical self and as not 100% certain it will actually happen.

 

So I ask again, how many people could we get to attend an event? Will it be over 500?

[+Learned Gerbil]

Personally, I am more interested in events that are appropriate in terms of cost,time, place, nature of the event and fitting it to my other obligations rather than simply size.

[+sTeamTraen]

If you had not guessed I am also throwing my hat in to the ring to help organise such an event but I am being my usual sceptical self and as not 100% certain it will actually happen.

 

Whichever country you host such an event will inevitably dominate in terms of numbers attending. For many people, even if it's not too far from them, the international border will be a problem. Kind of like how the audience for snooker goes down 30% when they move it from BBC1 to BBC2. In the Schengen/Euroland countries this is becoming less of an issue but it's still there, even for people as open-minded as geocachers.

 

That means that there are only two countries where you could envisage hosting such an event in Europe: the UK and Germany. Of the two, Germany would probably win hands down if there were to be an Olympic-style beauty contest: they could offer lower costs for accommodation (I don't know much about camping, but I know how much B&B/hotel rooms cost comparatively between the two), cheaper travel to get there for more cachers (Germany+Benelux = 25000+ caches, so presumably almost twice the number of cachers could drive there compared with UK), etc.

 

Another big problem - perhaps in either place - would be getting permission. 500+ people setting off after even 50 or 100 caches is going to result in a lot of trampled grass. I don't know how the Americans manage it but they have a lot more space to play with, plus, in general, less government to deal with.

[+DcCow]

If you had not guessed I am also throwing my hat in to the ring to help organise such an event but I am being my usual sceptical self and as not 100% certain it will actually happen.

 

Whichever country you host such an event will inevitably dominate in terms of numbers attending. For many people, even if it's not too far from them, the international border will be a problem. Kind of like how the audience for snooker goes down 30% when they move it from BBC1 to BBC2. In the Schengen/Euroland countries this is becoming less of an issue but it's still there, even for people as open-minded as geocachers.

 

That means that there are only two countries where you could envisage hosting such an event in Europe: the UK and Germany. Of the two, Germany would probably win hands down if there were to be an Olympic-style beauty contest: they could offer lower costs for accommodation (I don't know much about camping, but I know how much B&B/hotel rooms cost comparatively between the two), cheaper travel to get there for more cachers (Germany+Benelux = 25000+ caches, so presumably almost twice the number of cachers could drive there compared with UK), etc.

 

Another big problem - perhaps in either place - would be getting permission. 500+ people setting off after even 50 or 100 caches is going to result in a lot of trampled grass. I don't know how the Americans manage it but they have a lot more space to play with, plus, in general, less government to deal with.

 

Nick would be great in helping sort this. He put on a great event last year, and as he said above, he had almost 100 people from several countries attend. I'd be willing to help in any way I can.

 

DC

[+sTeamTraen]

Couple of marquees for lectures, talks or presentations. Portaloos and burger vans job done.

 

Having organised an event single-handed - which is easy, up to a certain size - I can think of a few issues to sort out:

 

- Insurance

- Money

- Landowner permissions

- Money

- Organising committee meetings

- Money

- Organising committee politics

- Money

- Caches - placement, descriptions, quality control, beta testing

- Money

- Organising committee tantrums

- Money

- Organising committee walkouts three weeks before the event

- Money

- Weather

 

As for the number of attendees: there are probably more like 5000 than 500 cachers in the UK, but if you can get even 5% of them to attend an event, well done.

[alistair_uk]

Having organised an event single-handed - which is easy, up to a certain size - I can think of a few issues to sort out:

 

- Insurance

- Money

- Landowner permissions

- Money

- Organising committee meetings

- Money

- Organising committee politics

- Money

- Caches - placement, descriptions, quality control, beta testing

- Money

- Organising committee tantrums

- Money

- Organising committee walkouts three weeks before the event

- Money

- Weather

 

As for the number of attendees: there are probably more like 5000 than 500 cachers in the UK, but if you can get even 5% of them to attend an event, well done.

I think you missed money, 24 hour bar, money and money.

[+sTeamTraen]

I think you missed money, 24 hour bar, money and money.

 

Again, Germany would have the advantage there - it would be a lot easier to set up a beer tent. Licensing restrictions tend to be a lot less severe.

 

I avoided the money issue on my event by making it entirely free - then I passed a collection box round at the dinner. The event cost avout 480 Euros to organise (although I didn't count petrol money in that) and I collected about 430, so I was quite pleased. (It would have felt awful to make a profit!).

 

This weekend's event in Paris was also organised by one person (and his family) - his way to cover costs was to sell event-specific geocoins.

 

But for a 500-person event, the numbers are so huge, which consequently means that a certain number of people have to be involved who require to not be out of pocket. In practice that means setting an entry fee. How much? How to collect it? What about people who claim to be unemployed, over 65, or otherwise deserving of a concession? Thick skin required.

[SlytherinAlex]

Perhaps we should go for a smaller event first to hedge our bets and then go for something a bit larger afterwards. After all this was geo woodstock 4!

 

Siliconwombat

A very good point that seems to have been lost on a lot of people.

 

GW has grown and evolved. It didn't start off this big.

 

Out of interest, I attended GW4 at the weekend and it did not cost me anything but petrol money and $5.00 park entrance.

 

alex.

[alistair_uk]

I also truly believe in the concept of keeping it simple and starting small. Perhaps the way forward is to look at organising a "National" or "International" event as an experiment. One key point (or is that problem) is that we need to do it in a way that people accept it is such without the imposable task of truing to please everyone.

[+Learned Gerbil]

Interestingly, the "mega" concept has been linked simply to size. Arguably there isa case for using the term for a series or large events close together on the same or adjacent dates. For example, recently two events, including a CITO event were held near Reading on one day, and a seperate event for the overnighters and locals was held the next morning. Total attendence for the three events must have been over 250 even if only about 120 actual people were involved. I am not trying to inflate numbers here, just showing that the concept, with flexibility and imagination could be applied to a series of events which together are more significant than the individual events.

[alistair_uk]

Interestingly, the "mega" concept has been linked simply to size. Arguably there isa case for using the term for a series or large events close together on the same or adjacent dates.

...but the size is the one guideline that Groundspeak are laying down. I feel that it is not arguable as you are just trying to use a loophole to count people twice and that loophole can be, and a have confidence will be corrected in seconds if someone tried it on. basically we have to ask Grounspeak to make the event a "Mega" event and they will if it is in reality a huge event (Huge as in size and not cacher, obviously ).

Edited May 31, 2006 by alistair_uk

[+Learned Gerbil]

I am not looking for a loophole, just pointng out that TPTB have chosen to make size the only criteria which seems short sighted to me. It also depends how you define an event ,and how you define an attendee.

[+Team Maddie UK]

Hi

 

Late last summer, I had started a thread about doing a "BIG EVENT" (linky) to coincide with Geowoodstock4 with satellite connections etc. I had found a location that could take over 500 cachers and had all the facilities. I had gotten emails from people all over the world willing to attend. BUT I got knocked back because it might conflict with other events happening around the same time. But the idea did not die completely and a group of us discussed the possibility of a EURO-EVENT with 3-5 countries hosting an event at the same time with satellite hookups and webcams etc. The idea is not dead and can be done

But right now a lot of my time and energy is going into the Shrops 2006 event (to be held in Denbighshire) which can take up to 200 campers 100 have already expressed interest in attending. So there is still space available.

 

My vote would go with the EURO-EVENT

 

Lynn

Edited June 1, 2006 by Team Maddie UK

[+Team Maddie UK]

Just adding to what Lynn said above, and before someone inevitably accuses us, this is not a shameless plug for the Shropshire 2006 event. Perhaps some of you have not read this event page.

 

Allow me to quote from the event page...

 

Due to the incredible attendance at last year's event we have decided to make this an annual UK wide event (similar in nature to the American 'Geowoodstock' which travels from state to state) with future venues not confined to the Shropshire area, although the events will be held at approximately the same time of year every year. ie. The first weekend in September. The naming of this years event not only is intended to reflect this new direction but also the Arthurian connections associated with the Llangollen area. After all, what is Geocaching if not a ‘Quest’. Since 'Arthurian connections' can be found throughout the UK so, hopefully, will be the following years' events.

 

This is also intended to become a sizeable yearly event and the planning is already underway.

 

Martin