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City Navigator 8 Due Out May 31


LDove
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According to GPScity.com. This is the e-mail they sent to me regarding the price:

 

For your immediate information, here is the pricing information you requested:

 

Date: 23/05/06 8:00:22

Model: Garmin MapSource City Navigator North America DVD v8 (010-10474-00 v8)

List Price: US$139.27

Todays Price: US$119.95 (Save $19.32!!)

Prices are subject to change without notice.

 

My questions, I have the new 76csx - does anyone know if this mapping will be available on a memory card or is it just the CD set?

 

What is the difference between Topo maps and City Navigator (I have topo - and have not used map programs before) all a bit confusing :)

 

Thanks for any help.

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According to GPScity.com. This is the e-mail they sent to me regarding the price:

 

For your immediate information, here is the pricing information you requested:

 

Date: 23/05/06 8:00:22

Model: Garmin MapSource City Navigator North America DVD v8 (010-10474-00 v8)

List Price: US$139.27

Todays Price: US$119.95 (Save $19.32!!)

Prices are subject to change without notice.

 

My questions, I have the new 76csx - does anyone know if this mapping will be available on a memory card or is it just the CD set?

 

What is the difference between Topo maps and City Navigator (I have topo - and have not used map programs before) all a bit confusing :)

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Garmin has not released North American (USA and Canada) street mapping software on memory cards...yet.

 

They seem however, to be moving in that direction.

 

BTW--City Nav will not be CDs, but rather DVDs (see above).

 

The difference between the two--Topo provides landform and road, although the roads data is outdated. City Navigator is routable, provides POI data, and fairly up to date street level mapping. City Nav will make your 76 really shine.

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According to GPScity.com. This is the e-mail they sent to me regarding the price:

 

For your immediate information, here is the pricing information you requested:

 

Date: 23/05/06 8:00:22

Model: Garmin MapSource City Navigator North America DVD v8 (010-10474-00 v8)

List Price: US$139.27

Todays Price: US$119.95 (Save $19.32!!)

Prices are subject to change without notice.

 

My questions, I have the new 76csx - does anyone know if this mapping will be available on a memory card or is it just the CD set?

 

What is the difference between Topo maps and City Navigator (I have topo - and have not used map programs before) all a bit confusing :)

 

Thanks for any help.

 

I have a 76CSx too. I have both US Topo and City Navigator 7. Topo maps are primarily for back country use. City Navigator maps are more for city streets and auto routing. City Navigator maps are also loaded with detailed locations for GAs, Food, Lodging, etc... You can use it to find specific addresses and then auto route to it from your current location. I find that the City Navigator and Topo maps compliment each other perfectly. I have both maps loaded in my 76CSx and toggle between them as needed. To load both types of maps into you GPSr, use Garmin Mapsource and build a single map set with the Topo and the City Navigator maps you want, then load the map set to your GPSr. Once both are loaded, you select City Navigator maps to use them. If you want to see the Topo maps, select "hide City Navigator maps" and the Topos will become visible. I have 90% of the western US, both Topos and City Navigator loaded. It took 879MBs of my 1GB micro SD card.

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Does anyone know how stable Garmins new software releases are? Should I wait a couple months and let the bad things happen to other peoples GPSrs and give Garmin time to sort out the problems?

I really do want to buy Navigator but am a little leary of being first to own.

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I appreciate the clarification. Was not sure what the big difference was between the two. So for instance, if I live in the southeast portion of the state and want to go to the northern part to cache, will my GPS hold the entire state? What if I go to another state, do I delete WI from the GPS and start over?

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I appreciate the clarification. Was not sure what the big difference was between the two. So for instance, if I live in the southeast portion of the state and want to go to the northern part to cache, will my GPS hold the entire state? What if I go to another state, do I delete WI from the GPS and start over?

That depends on what GPS you have and the amount of memory would take up. I have a 60csx and a 512mb card so I hold plenty of map data. If you're asking the difference between v7 and v8 of City Navigator it should be coverage of new roads and any changes in roads. Also, everyone is hoping it has smaller segments to allow it to work with the older gpsrs.

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Garmin has not released North American (USA and Canada) street mapping software on memory cards...yet.

 

They seem however, to be moving in that direction.

 

Its because its much harder to copy. It has a unique id inside the card, so if you copy it out it would not work. The CD/DVD is just to copy, and you then have to get a key for it.

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They updated their site today right after I called them. First I called Garmin to ask them what to do since they no longer carry v7. The lady I spoke to said that they were no longer selling v7 because v8 was soon to be released, but she had no idea when it would be released (in her words, in the next few months).

 

The problem I see is that in the past (according to their website, I have no personal experience), it's usually a month and a half or so from the date software is released and the date it actually starts shipping. Although would they really stop selling the previous version if it were that far off?

 

Anyway, I called up GPScity as I had a pre-order. The guy who answered said he would call Garmin and find out, and he called me back in about 10 minutes to say they would have it June 23. I told them to cancel my pre-order. Honestly since this is the third or fourth time I think they are just making dates up since they assume it will be released soon and since they are the only site offering it, kind of cornering the market on it at this point. Although I don't know that for sure.

 

I wish I knew what to do, I have 3 trips coming up soon and no maps at all other than the basemap. And now its almost hard to find v7. Hurm....

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I had the same dilemma, but garmin sales support recommended I buy City Select NA v7, and I'll qualify for free upgrade to City Navigator v8 when it comes out. This is the e-mail I saved, just in case:

 

"Thank you for contacting Garmin Cartography. Yes, you will be able to upgrade from City Select to City Navigator v8 as well. You could purchase either one brand new and be eligible for the one time free update to City Nav version 8. Please let me know if you have any other questions and thank you for your interest in Garmin."

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GPSCity is pretty good about dealing with Garmin's backorder situations. I emailed Garmin about BlueChart v8 being out of stock and they said if I needed the CD immediately, I may want to try finding an old stock v7.5 and then getting the upgrade. I then contacted GPSCity and they said they don't keep them because Garmin generally buys back all the outdated versions to make room for the new versions. About a day or two later I got the Fedex tracking number for the BlueChart v8. So I feel good about waiting for the latest version especially since it was sooner than expected.

 

I have both maps loaded in my 76CSx and toggle between them as needed. To load both types of maps into you GPSr, use Garmin Mapsource and build a single map set with the Topo and the City Navigator maps you want, then load the map set to your GPSr. Once both are loaded, you select City Navigator maps to use them. If you want to see the Topo maps, select "hide City Navigator maps" and the Topos will become visible. I have 90% of the western US, both Topos and City Navigator loaded. It took 879MBs of my 1GB micro SD card.

 

Cool. This is exactly the info I was curious about. I have my City Navigator v5 (it is the allowed copy from my StreetPilot 2610 - got to get the latest version someday :rolleyes: ) and should have the Topo CD (for hiking, etc.) and BlueChart CD (for Long Island Sound) within the next couple of days from Fedex via GPSCity. I got a 1 gig micoSD from Newegg waiting for the data.

 

Hopefully in a few months Sandisk will make a 2 gig micoSD so we can load the entire USA on it. :laughing:

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Anyone know of a reliable store that is still shipping Navigator North America v7? I have to leave town at the end of next week, and would really like to have some maps ... =)

 

I've looked up about 5 or 6 online retailers and they all seem to have it either labeled discontinued or backordered. This includes GPSCity, GPSNow, Buy.com, ....

 

Thanks for the help.

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The problem I see is that in the past (according to their website, I have no personal experience), it's usually a month and a half or so from the date software is released and the date it actually starts shipping. Although would they really stop selling the previous version if it were that far off?

 

Garmin usually anounces the new version somewhere in the middle of the "announce" date and "ship" date. So they could announce it today but the website would have an announce date of May 1st or June 1st.

 

Honestly since this is the third or fourth time I think they are just making dates up since they assume it will be released soon and since they are the only site offering it, kind of cornering the market on it at this point. Although I don't know that for sure.

 

Yes, they could just be counting on the fact that Garmin has come out with the new version around this time for the last few years to corner the market so to speak.

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Your best bet might be to call Garmin direct.

 

Hi, thanks for the reply. I tried that a few days back and the lady told me they were no longer selling v7 because of the v8 release. She recommended that I look through their online retailers to see if I could find one that was still selling it.

 

Garmin usually anounces the new version somewhere in the middle of the "announce" date and "ship" date. So they could announce it today but the website would have an announce date of May 1st or June 1st.

 

Ah, well thats a bit comforting to hear at least.

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Anyone know of a reliable store that is still shipping Navigator North America v7? I have to leave town at the end of next week, and would really like to have some maps ... =)

 

I've looked up about 5 or 6 online retailers and they all seem to have it either labeled discontinued or backordered. This includes GPSCity, GPSNow, Buy.com, ....

 

Thanks for the help.

 

Here is a link for Navigator North America v7. That is still being sold.

 

Regards,

 

DIDS

Edited by DIDS
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I asked GPScity about my City Navigator v8 order from May 21 which at the time said it was expected on May 31 or June 1.

 

Then on June 7th it said they expected it by June 12th.

 

Now the webpage says Product Availability DUE 23 JUN.

http://www.gpscity.com/item-garmin-mapsour...-v8/cnusav8.htm

 

But the email from GPScity that I got yesterday when I asked about my back order said:

 

------------

Thank you for your email.

 

This CD in your order has not yet been released to us from Garmin yet as it is a brand new version of their City Navigator. We are expecting this to arrive hopefully in about a week.

 

Best Regards,

GPSCITY.COM, YOUR GLOBAL GPS HEADQUARTERS!

PHONE: 702.990.5600 / FAX: 702.990.5603

Website: http://www.gpscity.com

(JBT)

-------------

 

So about a week would be 15th to 23rd?

 

I think we will get it when they get it and they have no idea really.

 

Also there may be a backlog of orders at GPScity. So if you order now it might not ship till Jully or so if they get some this month as they may have orders for 1000 or so by now and may be getting less than that.

 

Who knows.

 

I would have bought a V7 one but the Garmin website says that they do NOT do upgrade of your software unless you have not used the lock codes yet and only then if you purchased it after the next release was released.

 

http://www.garmin.com/unlock/update.jsp

Am I entitled to a free update?

If you purchased a locked MapSource product ON or AFTER the release date of an update, you are entitled to an unlock on the newer version of that product for free. Please see details.

http://www.garmin.com/support/faqs/faq.jsp...ography〈=en

 

in there it say's:

 

FREE UPDATES:

If you ORIGINALLY & NEWLY unlocked a NEW locked MapSource CD-ROM/DVD-ROM product ON or AFTER the release date of an update for that same product, you are eligible to unlock on that specific update what you unlocked on the original for no charge. In other words, you can update to the latest data for free!

 

You must order a free Update Disk for that particular MapSource product. Do that on the Garmin website, starting at: MapSource Updates

-----

 

So to me that says since the V8 is not yet released and does not have a posted release date. If you order v7 or install it / unlock it before the official v8 release date (like now) and the release date ends up being July 15th then you have to buy it again to get V8. Or buy the update which is like $75 if you were updating to v7. We do not know what it is for v8 as it is not posted and not released.

 

From the same web page:

-----

CHARGED UPDATES:

Your update options are determined by what you have previously unlocked and when.

 

If you are a returning customer who previously purchased a MapSource CD-ROM/DVD-ROM product you may purchase an update if one is available to you. Your update options are determined based on what you've previously unlocked. A new unlock code must be purchased to access the updated data.

-----

 

So I would be VERY CAREFUL about buying V7 and using it and thinking that you can get a free upgrade when v8 comes out since that is **NOT** what Garmin has posted on their website.

 

You better get it in writting from Garmin or be prepared to pay $75+ for the v8 update.

 

Cheers.

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I pre-ordered and I'm disappointed that it hasn't been released. This is my first GPS and would really like the software. I guess some of us are just stuck in the middle, we can't find ver 7 because it's not being sold and we can't get ver 8 because it hasn't been released.

 

We just have to search and wait. Kind of a bummer!!!!

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I want to get a 60csx but I'm gonna wait until City Nav v8 is out. Contrary to Garmin's assurance that v7 users will be able to upgrade to v8 for free I am sceptical. I thought they have a 30 day time limit on that and if I buy v7 now and they drag their heels on release 8...

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Yep, thought I'd add my disappointment to the pile too. I bought my 76CSx at the end of May and thought for sure I'd have a map by now. Contacted Garmin to find that their product folks don't know the release date of version 8 either. What's a GPSMAP 76CSx without maps - very disappointing. From reading some of the other forums, found out the update's free, but you have to pay for unlocking it. It's very iffy. With the cost of maps over $100, I have to say I'm very disappointed in the unprofessional manner that Garmin, an international company, has taken in handling this matter. Makes me almost want to return the unit and revert back to my papermaps which are still quite reliable.

 

So just a warning to everybody considering buying a Garmin product running on North America maps. Unless you okay to have the unit with no maps, hold off on your purchase like Tharagleb says, til version 8 is out before buying. Otherwise you will run the risk of paying for a set of maps version 7, only to have the latest update version 8 come out a month or 2 later and pay additional fee to unlock the update. For those of you needing a map, try GPSDiscount. They have a 800 number you can call to confirm availability of version 7.

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This really suks. I too had several trips planned this summer and dumped out all that money for the 76csx and now can't use it. I also have not received my rebate and I sent it in over a month ago - anybody else still waiting on theirs?

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Yep, thought I'd add my disappointment to the pile too. I bought my 76CSx at the end of May and thought for sure I'd have a map by now. Contacted Garmin to find that their product folks don't know the release date of version 8 either. What's a GPSMAP 76CSx without maps - very disappointing. From reading some of the other forums, found out the update's free, but you have to pay for unlocking it. It's very iffy. With the cost of maps over $100, I have to say I'm very disappointed in the unprofessional manner that Garmin, an international company, has taken in handling this matter. Makes me almost want to return the unit and revert back to my papermaps which are still quite reliable.

 

So just a warning to everybody considering buying a Garmin product running on North America maps. Unless you okay to have the unit with no maps, hold off on your purchase like Tharagleb says, til version 8 is out before buying. Otherwise you will run the risk of paying for a set of maps version 7, only to have the latest update version 8 come out a month or 2 later and pay additional fee to unlock the update. For those of you needing a map, try GPSDiscount. They have a 800 number you can call to confirm availability of version 7.

 

If you unlock after the "release date" there is no charge for the update. In past years they have back dated the "release date" 2-3 weeks before they actually announced and shipped the product. Also, if you unlock within the month or so prior to the release date, You can (and should) call tech support. They will usually knock off the price of the update. I have heard of people getting their update for as little as $25. When I upgraded from City Select 5 to 6, I had unlocked about 2 months prior to the release of v6. They gave me the upgrade for half price ($37.50 instead of 75).

 

With the apparent delays, I would think that they will back up the release date. They have generally been very good to work with.

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Yeah, I went ahead and ordered City Select v7 via the GPSDiscount link Onit posted above. I talked to Garmin first, and the lady said since Select is being phased out, that I will be eligible for whatever upgrades/updates a Navigator user with the same purchase dates etc would be eligible for. She said that I would *NOT* be eligible for the free upgrade since it has yet to be released...

 

I don't see that I have much choice though. I purchased the GPS in large part because of two trips that I have coming up (both within the next month, and I don't travel all that often). The way I see it, either they will ship within the next month or so (and, if that is the case, I think I will be eligible for the free upgrade since as rswith says above, they usually predate the eligible announce date some) or they won't be shipping for a month or so anyway, in which case having the new version would be a relatively moot point since its past my travels...

 

I guess it comes down to I can wait and have the newest version when I don't need it, or I can have an outdated version when I can use it. I still don't see how Garmin can officially have NO version currently recommended.

 

Anyway, just a question as a matter of opinion, do you guys (and gals) think it would make more sense for a product like this to be subscription based? In other words, instead of waiting an entire year for a batch $75 update, would it not make more sense to pay $75/year and have updates sent out as soon as they have them? I suppose this would present some challenges, but it seems more logical for a time based product like this. Really by the time we actually get v8, parts of it will already be outdated .. =)

 

PS. Also for some of you that have used these products for awhile, is there really that much updated between versions? I suppose for new developing neighborhoods there might be many updates, but overall does the POI database change all that much in a year?

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If you unlock after the "release date" there is no charge for the update. In past years they have back dated the "release date" 2-3 weeks before they actually announced and shipped the product. Also, if you unlock within the month or so prior to the release date, You can (and should) call tech support. They will usually knock off the price of the update. I have heard of people getting their update for as little as $25. When I upgraded from City Select 5 to 6, I had unlocked about 2 months prior to the release of v6. They gave me the upgrade for half price ($37.50 instead of 75).

 

With the apparent delays, I would think that they will back up the release date. They have generally been very good to work with.

 

Well, one of the other things I don't like is that with the upgrade you essentially toss the prior version out the window and don't have access to it anymore. I've used some software wherein I liked the prior version better and reloaded the earlier version because I felt the revised version was bloated. Once you update, there's no going back to any of the prior versions as I understand it. It's good to hear that they're good to work with - but it does bother me to have to pay extra to use something in the interim while waiting for the map I want. Good thing I have the World Cup to distract me a little bit from this. How about that Shaka Hislop? Hate that the warranty clock is ticking while my unit sits there mapless. Thanks for the history of how they've backdated the release date and given folks discount for the update.

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Actually, that is not the case. I had City Select V 5, City Select V7 and City Navigator all loaded and working in Mapsource at the same time. When you upgrade, the previous version is still installed and still works. You have to uninstall the older version seperatly.

 

 

Well, one of the other things I don't like is that with the upgrade you essentially toss the prior version out the window and don't have access to it anymore. I've used some software wherein I liked the prior version better and reloaded the earlier version because I felt the revised version was bloated. Once you update, there's no going back to any of the prior versions as I understand it. It's good to hear that they're good to work with - but it does bother me to have to pay extra to use something in the interim while waiting for the map I want. Good thing I have the World Cup to distract me a little bit from this. How about that Shaka Hislop? Hate that the warranty clock is ticking while my unit sits there mapless. Thanks for the history of how they've backdated the release date and given folks discount for the update.

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Actually, that is not the case. I had City Select V 5, City Select V7 and City Navigator all loaded and working in Mapsource at the same time. When you upgrade, the previous version is still installed and still works. You have to uninstall the older version seperatly.

 

 

Well, one of the other things I don't like is that with the upgrade you essentially toss the prior version out the window and don't have access to it anymore. I've used some software wherein I liked the prior version better and reloaded the earlier version because I felt the revised version was bloated. Once you update, there's no going back to any of the prior versions as I understand it. It's good to hear that they're good to work with - but it does bother me to have to pay extra to use something in the interim while waiting for the map I want. Good thing I have the World Cup to distract me a little bit from this. How about that Shaka Hislop? Hate that the warranty clock is ticking while my unit sits there mapless. Thanks for the history of how they've backdated the release date and given folks discount for the update.

 

Yeah, what he said. :huh:

 

I have gove back and forth so to speak as well, they all worked just fine. Once you have an unlock code for a product you have it forever. Once it is unlocked, it will work forever. When you upgrade to a higher version, you still have the unlock to the previous version.

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Actually, that is not the case. I had City Select V 5, City Select V7 and City Navigator all loaded and working in Mapsource at the same time. When you upgrade, the previous version is still installed and still works. You have to uninstall the older version seperatly.

 

 

Well, one of the other things I don't like is that with the upgrade you essentially toss the prior version out the window and don't have access to it anymore. I've used some software wherein I liked the prior version better and reloaded the earlier version because I felt the revised version was bloated. Once you update, there's no going back to any of the prior versions as I understand it. It's good to hear that they're good to work with - but it does bother me to have to pay extra to use something in the interim while waiting for the map I want. Good thing I have the World Cup to distract me a little bit from this. How about that Shaka Hislop? Hate that the warranty clock is ticking while my unit sits there mapless. Thanks for the history of how they've backdated the release date and given folks discount for the update.

 

Yeah, what he said. :blink:

 

I have gove back and forth so to speak as well, they all worked just fine. Once you have an unlock code for a product you have it forever. Once it is unlocked, it will work forever. When you upgrade to a higher version, you still have the unlock to the previous version.

 

Cool. stand corrected. Thanks, good to know my understanding was off - what happens when you talk about something you have no experience with. :anicute:

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well i have read all the replies to this topic and i dont know much about availibility when i comes to the release date and shipping what not so... If i am destined to go to Colorado on June 29, do you think i am going to be screwed when it comes down to me wanting to use CN v8 on my trip. I also would like to know if when i porduct is anounced but not shipped, is it not possible to get the product untill after the shipping date? Thank you all for your input. :lol:

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I wish I had read this before buying my 60Csx with CS7 (unlocked May 24th). Garmin confirmed that I will not qualify for a free upgrade :drama: Nothing like paying top dollar for obsolete software.

 

see my e-mail and Garmin's response below:

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Glenn W

Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:25 PM

To: Garmin Sales Support

Subject: Sales support request for None selected

 

Inquiry:

I recently purchased City Select 7 and unlocked all the North America maps

on May 24, 2006.

 

Will I qualify for a free upgrade to City Navigator 8 when it is released?

I understand that City Select will no longer be supported.

 

Request emailed to sales@garmin.com

 

 

Dear Glenn,

 

Thank you for contacting GARMIN International. You will not be entitled to

update to version 8 at no charge. However when our mapping company releases

the update sometime this summer they will give us some guidelines to work

with our customers that purchased a previous version prior to the update.

 

When you see that version 8 is available send me an email and I will see

what we can do to help you with the update.

 

If your replying to this message, Please include all correspondence.

 

Best Regards,

Dan Goretskie

GARMIN International

Technical Support Specialist

techsupp@garmin.com

800-800-1020

913-397-8200

913-440-5488 fax

http://www.garmin.com/

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Inquiry:

I recently purchased City Select 7 and unlocked all the North America maps

on May 24, 2006.

 

Will I qualify for a free upgrade to City Navigator 8 when it is released?

I understand that City Select will no longer be supported.

 

Request emailed to sales@garmin.com

 

 

Dear Glenn,

 

Thank you for contacting GARMIN International. You will not be entitled to

update to version 8 at no charge. However when our mapping company releases

the update sometime this summer they will give us some guidelines to work

with our customers that purchased a previous version prior to the update.

 

When you see that version 8 is available send me an email and I will see

what we can do to help you with the update.

 

If your replying to this message, Please include all correspondence.

 

Best Regards,

Dan Goretskie

GARMIN International

://www.garmin.com/]http://www.garmin.com/[/url]

 

Look at it this way:

 

Inquiry to Ford Motor Company:

I recently purchased a 2006 Ford Explorer XLT on June 5, 2006 and drove it all over the North American continent.

 

Will I qualify for a free 2007 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer Edition when it is released?

I understand that 2006 models will no longer be sold.

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Thank you for contacting Ford Motor Company. You will not be entitled to a 2007 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer Edition at no charge. However when our factory starts shipping 2007 models sometime this Fall they will give us some trade-in guidelines to work with our customers that purchased a previous model prior to the update.

 

When you see that the 2007 models are available send me an email and I will see

what we can do to help you with the purchase.

 

Sincerely,

Ford Motor Company

 

If the new version 8 isn't out yet, then the current version 7 is current - and therefor NOT OBSOLETE.

Edited by Neo_Geo
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Glenn,

 

I wouldn't worry about it all that much. At this point, it depends on who you ask. You wrote to the sales people ("sales@garmin.com"), and they along with the sales reps on the phone are all saying "No, you can't get a free update". However, if you write to cartography@garmin.com (the email the website tells you to contact regarding Navigator/Select sotware), they will say yes (at least that was my experience along with a few others) ... from the email response I got:

 

"If you do find a brand new version of the software you can purchase it, install and unlock the maps and when our version 8 update is released later this summer you will qualify for a free update."

 

My guess at this point is that from what others have said and my email responses, Garmin will probably do the right thing and give free or severly reduced updates to those of us who really didn't have much of a choice... And for certain I wouldn't worry about the sales reps say as they seem to all say something different ... =)

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Look at it this way:

 

Inquiry to Ford Motor Company:

I recently purchased a 2006 Ford Explorer XLT on June 5, 2006 and drove it all over the North American continent.

 

Will I qualify for a free 2007 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer Edition when it is released?

I understand that 2006 models will no longer be sold.

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Thank you for contacting Ford Motor Company. You will not be entitled to a 2007 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer Edition at no charge. However when our factory starts shipping 2007 models sometime this Fall they will give us some trade-in guidelines to work with our customers that purchased a previous model prior to the update.

 

When you see that the 2007 models are available send me an email and I will see

what we can do to help you with the purchase.

 

Sincerely,

Ford Motor Company

 

If the new version 8 isn't out yet, then the current version 7 is current - and therefor NOT OBSOLETE.

 

Err, thats not really a fair analogy. That would be a good analogy had he purchased the 60CS and wanted a free upgrade to the 60CSx. The difference is that the mapping software is a required additional purchase to make a previous purchase (his GPS) functional in a way that Garmin advertised it to be. So, in essence, if he wants to use his GPS as a city navigation device (as Garmin advertised that it could be) without wasting warrantied days, he HAS to purchase the software now, even though Garmin no longer sells the previous software (v7) because it is at best outdated.

Edited by jpoe
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Thanks jpoe,

 

I'll wait and see. Even if they don't comp the CN8, CS7 isn't that bad.

 

GW

 

I have been upgrading from CS5 to CS6 to CS7 and to CityNavigator 8 here in Europe.

Waiting in eager on what is new, and been disappointed every time.

Very little new POI,

Still missing roads,

Not fixed “one way drive trough”

 

So I sent a list of 10 wrong ways in my City to Navtec who is the source of the maps.

I did get a confirmed that they have done a visual inspection and confirmed that they

will update their base. 1/2 a year later, CN8 came out and no fixes was there.

It seems that it takes more than one year to get fixes into the map. So if I am lucky

I will get the fixes in City Navigator 9 or will it get 10 before I see it?

 

It seems to be around 1 year between every new version of map.

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So I sent a list of 10 wrong ways in my City to Navtec who is the source of the maps.

I did get a confirmed that they have done a visual inspection and confirmed that they

will update their base. 1/2 a year later, CN8 came out and no fixes was there.

It seems that it takes more than one year to get fixes into the map. So if I am lucky

I will get the fixes in City Navigator 9 or will it get 10 before I see it?

 

It seems to be around 1 year between every new version of map.

Yes, that's correct.

Navteq updates their database every working day, as soon as their schedule permits.

Then they release the current database to their subscribers, like Garmin, once every third month.

From that, it's up to the subscriber what to do with the data. First, they have their standard update cycle. For Garmin, it's normally one year (for street maps). Volvo updates twice a year.

Second, they have to convert it into some format, that's appropriate for their own units. Then they need to test it, to make sure it works as intended.

Then production of the DVD's, packaging and shipping should be done.

 

You can count on that there's a latency of 9-18 months, before a change comes into a new product. But if Navteq has done the update, then it will eventually reach your Garmin GPS. I know for sure, since I'm responsible for more than 50 updates to the European maps, and they do get into the map products from Garmin.

 

Apart from that, the whold discussion above is a joke. If you buy version x now, or wait for version x+1, or for that matter x+n, you'll still get a map that has errors, where roads are missing, restaurants have opened or closed and all other issues. It's not that easy, that you can just follow the GPS, without thinking at all. Hopefully, when the GPS suddenly tells you that you are driving in the woods, but you see a new, fine road, with small signs on the bridges, claiming that they were built last year, you aren't that stupid that you can't understand that this is a fairly new stretch of a road, and that's why it's not on the map.

Likewise, if your GPS says that you can turn right in the next crossing, and you go there, just to find out that someone has created a nice, new green area, where the road used to come out, planted some trees there, and put a bench to rest tired legs on there, then you are hopefully not that stupid that you can't realize that to access the road, which you still can see behind the trees, you now need to go around the block.

 

Someone who really IS that stupid will probably not get the maps into the GPS anyway.

 

Hence, there's nothing that prevents you from using your GPS, with the best maps available right now. If you don't like to spend the money for the next update, then wait for version 9, then. Even if Garmin doesn't deliver the current version any longer, it can most probably be found at retailers.

The car analogy above is dead on. If you are worried about wasting warranty days, before you buy a new map, then it's your own fault, if you didn't postpone the procurement of the GPS, until you could buy the map you desire at the same time, thus having the full functionality from day one.

Every experience from life will show anyone that a predicted delivery date is just that, predicted. Until you have the product in your hand, you know it's just clever guesswork, at best.

 

Besides, if you are reluctant to spend money on toys, how do you prioritize your life? :laughing:

Edited by apersson850
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You can count on that there's a latency of 9-18 months, before a change comes into a new product. But if Navteq has done the update, then it will eventually reach your Garmin GPS. I know for sure, since I'm responsible for more than 50 updates to the European maps, and they do get into the map products from Garmin.

 

Apart from that, the whold discussion above is a joke. If you buy version x now, or wait for version x+1, or for that matter x+n, you'll still get a map that has errors, where roads are missing, restaurants have opened or closed and all other issues. It's not that easy, that you can just follow the GPS, without thinking at all. Hopefully, when the GPS suddenly tells you that you are driving in the woods, but you see a new, fine road, with small signs on the bridges, claiming that they were built last year, you aren't that stupid that you can't understand that this is a fairly new stretch of a road, and that's why it's not on the map.

Likewise, if your GPS says that you can turn right in the next crossing, and you go there, just to find out that someone has created a nice, new green area, where the road used to come out, planted some trees there, and put a bench to rest tired legs on there, then you are hopefully not that stupid that you can't realize that to access the road, which you still can see behind the trees, you now need to go around the block.

 

Someone who really IS that stupid will probably not get the maps into the GPS anyway.

 

Hence, there's nothing that prevents you from using your GPS, with the best maps available right now. If you don't like to spend the money for the next update, then wait for version 9, then. Even if Garmin doesn't deliver the current version any longer, it can most probably be found at retailers.

The car analogy above is dead on. If you are worried about wasting warranty days, before you buy a new map, then it's your own fault, if you didn't postpone the procurement of the GPS, until you could buy the map you desire at the same time, thus having the full functionality from day one.

Every experience from life will show anyone that a predicted delivery date is just that, predicted. Until you have the product in your hand, you know it's just clever guesswork, at best.

 

Besides, if you are reluctant to spend money on toys, how do you prioritize your life? :laughing:

 

Well, I really don't want to turn this into any form of argument, so please don't take offense, but consider an opposing viewpoint to your points:

 

First, I agree that you would have to be "pretty stupid" if you see a brand new road and don't understand why it isn't on your map, but likewise you would also have to be pretty stupid if you couldn't figure out how to navigate from point A to point B using a paper map. Most people don't purchase GPS units for auto navigation in an effort to surpass limitations of their intelligence, they do so entirely for convenience. And a model loses some of that convenience if you are unable to route to a new area of town without pulling over and using a paper map or some other guide.

 

It also depends a good deal on where you live. In some cities/areas, over the course of a few years maybe just a few extra roads get built, and some POI's change. In fast growing areas, however, you can have entire areas of the city that develop over a few years. For instance, I currently live in a fairly small (pop 100,000) town in Florida and about 30% of that population wouldn't be covered in CS < v7 since its built up over the past 3 years or so. While that percentage wouldn't be as high, even in big-fast growing metropolitans like Miami you have vast parts of the city that grow yearly - which might make a difference to a delivery person. Of course its still possible to find someone living in those parts if they don't exist on your GPS; I'm not contesting that, just that you've lost some value of your GPS by not being able to.

 

Most importantly, I would agree with your argument (and the above analogy) entirely if the maps weren't a time based product. As you say, roads and POI's change often. What the bulk of your money goes to purchase (if the price of updates is any indication) is a snap shop of a "state" at a given time. The further you are from that state in time, the less value the product possesses. Someone who purchased CS7 the day it was released gained a far more valuable product then someone who purchases it today; and yet the price really hasn't changed virtually at all (you can find it new at about 75% of retail, the same as the day it was released).

 

Finally, I'm not entirely sure that it is fair to blame a consumer for not daily reading the forums, or for not logging onto the Garmin website, navigating through the many pages to the City Navigator maps page, scouring the page only to notice the lack of a single 10 pixel by 10 pixel "Buy" button that they were probably never before aware existed anyway; only to discover that the maps Garmin says are available in every one of their pamphlets/boxes/manuals can't actually be purchased. Some people probably have more interesting lives than us ... =)

 

And as for the toys thing, don't get me started. I've got a 60CSx on my lap that meant Ramen noodles straight for a month (and they get old after awhile, trust me!). I've definitely got my priorities straight, its just money can be a very limited resource for a Graduate student ... =)

 

Best Regards,

Edited by jpoe
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I called Garmin's cartography group couple days ago as I received no reply to my emails to them last weekend. The lady I spoke with said they were waiting for Navteq to give them the maps, that they don't make or update the maps themselves, but receive them from Navteq. She refused to give me even a ballpark ETA on version 8 as I may come back to them if they don't meet that deadline. Given that, I now fail to see how anybody can cite a specific or even estimated time of arrival. She suggested I purchase version 7 and when version 8 comes out to look at it online to see if anything's changed in the location I frequent that would warrant updating the map. If not, then she said I could wait and update to version 9 when it comes out. She said also to call them right away when version 8 was released to see if I would qualify for a free unlock update or a discount to the update.

 

Is that true, anybody knows, that I don't need version 8 in order to update to version 9? In other words, if I get version 7 now and unlock it, I can update to version 9 or 10 directly the following year(s)?

 

Yes, it was my decision not to get the map at the same time of the purchase of the unit, thinking that version 8 was coming out June 1, a mere few days from my unit purchase date. I had read that in a forum and was happy someone posted it so I could get the most recent map. I think I would have been pissed buying the current map NOT knowing the next version was around the corner. My bad for thinking the company would have no trouble meeting this rollout date since the maps went back as far as version 4 so this was not their first time at putting out maps. Before I spend more money, thinking I might wait to see if Garmin comes through with their rebate. But we'll see if the urge to get a map overrides my patience. I do agree with Jpoe not entirely fair to blame the consumer. I also don't think it's very respectful to call folks stupid or their input to this thread a joke. Folks are in different places in their lives and everybody is learning from their life experience, some more painful than others, some with more clarity, some with less. This could have been worse, I could have prematurely ordered the 1GB micro-sd as well but didn't.

 

Hey Jpoe, have you tried Ramen noodles without using their enclosed soup base - frying the cooked noodles with spagetti sauce combined with oyster sauce is pretty tasty, kinda like making the tomato beef chow mein without the beef, yum! edit - I think I might have started with ketchup and oyster flavored sauce first and worked my way up to spaghetti sauce. Guess what I'm saying is don't limit yourself to what you can do with those noodles. :)

Edited by Onit
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I wonder if there is a caveman in the backroom breaking down the large map chunks down to smaller pieces with a hammerstone, and that is why the delay in the new version?

 

I know that people were wanting smaller map chunks for GPS units with 56megs memory and smaller, and that Garmin got rid of City Select not long ago, and people were forced to buy City Navigator for the color etrexes, and that is not good.

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Regarding delivery dates:

Life has taught me that a delivery date is true, if you can see and touch the product. As long as you can't do that, then it's clever guesswork at it's best. Even the most ordinary delivery, similar to what has been done many times before, may go awry this time, due to some unforseen cause, neglected by everyone involved. In a perfect world this would not happen. But I don't live in a perfect world, and unfortunately it seems you didn't either.

Sometimes there's an interesting opinion by private customers, in their viewing of companies as some kind of being of it's own. But a company is just a collection of people. People do mistakes, are overly optimistic, get sick, or whatever, which may cause havoc to the best of plans.

 

Regarding usefulness of navigation:

There's also the question about for which purpose the map/GPS combination is intended. A professional, like a deliveryman, may see the expense as an investment, quickly paid for by loosing less time when looking for unfamiliar addresses. Somebody driving on his own time may regard the possible saving less important, even if he perhaps can save some fuel for his car. This reasonably has some leverage

 

Regarding a chance to see what you will get:

At least Garmin does provide a viewer of the map, so you can look at a new version before you buy it, and thus make up your own mind about if this is something you'd like to spend your money on or not. I've not seen the same service from other suppliers, but perhaps it exists.

 

Regarding being stupid or not:

Notice that I didn't try to imply that anyone here is stupid. I'm just trying to say that if you don't understand that a very new road may not be represented on the map, then you are a bit stupid. Unfortunately there are many examples of very old roads, which still aren't on the map. Then a report to Navteq (or whoever is providing the map data) could at least make this better for the next release. It works. I have myself reported over 50 errors on Garmin's maps, to Navteq, and these changes do show up on the maps, eventually, even if it's not always on the next issue.

I still consider some of the input to this thread as being rather funny, something I expressed by calling it a joke. Perhaps that's the wrong word to use. English is a rich language, and it's not my native one, so sometimes the more subtle semantics do elude me. That could perhaps offend someone, unintentionally.

On the other hand, to get some reaction, to make people think a bit further, often requires a certain degree of provocation.

 

The balance is delicate.

 

Add-on: While I was typing, there was another entry into the thread. Regarding that, have you noticed that Garmin advertises the huge map tiles in the most recent City Navigator products as an advantage to the customer, since he doesn't have to select so many tiles, in order to load the maps covering a certain area. It's like noone at Garmin know that you can keep the mouse button pressed, then move the mouse to include all map tiles in a certain area in one fell swoop.

Makes me think that they are just putting up a smoke screen, trying to cover that the reason is that they want to convince people that they need a new Garmin GPS, with a larger memory than their old model has.

Edited by apersson850
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How does the update rebate work?

Jelloman2 - If you need maps for a trip on June 29, you need to take into account the time it will take to ship the maps to you if you buy it online unless you have access to a store nearby where you can walk in and pick it up whether it's version 7 or 8. Also time to unlock and learn how to use it and upload what you need to your unit. You don't want to spend your trip time figuring out how to use it (unless you don't mind). Garmin has not officially announced/released version 8 yet as far as I know. The shipping date usually follows the release date. Don't believe you can get a copy before the shipping date. From this Garmin Table the shipping date can be from 1 to 3 months from the release date. One might make the assumption from the data on this table that the release date might be on or about the 1st of the month. Someone else mentioned sometimes they backdate the release date. But as they say in the stock market, past performance is no guarantee of future performance.

 

Edit - I just realized the table I referenced in above link is for UPDATE versions of the mapping software. I made an assumption that the shipping timing would apply across the board for all released versions. For all I know, the UPDATE version may be delayed for some reason and perhaps there is a new, non-UPDATE ORIGINAL version to be unlocked for the first time which is shipped on it's release date. With Garmin, I hate to make any assumption.

 

Edit - Ok, here's the official word from Garmin FAQ about release and ship dates:

Q. What is "ship date"? What is "release date"?

A. The "ship date" is the day when the Update disks are expected to begin shipping to customers. The "release date" is the day Garmin's cartography department releases the data to manufacturing for replication.

Edited by Onit
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Well, this is somewhat true. I purchased city select 4 for my gps V and later upgraded to CS6. When I purchased my 60csx I happily loaded my version 6 to it (unlocking it as my second unit).

Next I tried to load my version 4 maps to it (since I was able to do that on my gpsV). It would not let me no matter what I did so I wrote garmin. They told me that I would not be able to use my verson 4 maps on my 60csx. I need some of the older features of 4 that aren't on 6 but according to garmin, i'm not entitled to use it on my 60csx (but my gps V was still allowed).

 

So, your old versions will not follow you to a second unit..

 

Well, one of the other things I don't like is that with the upgrade you essentially toss the prior version out the window and don't have access to it anymore. I've used some software wherein I liked the prior version better and reloaded the earlier version because I felt the revised version was bloated. Once you update, there's no going back to any of the prior versions as I understand it. It's good to hear that they're good to work with - but it does bother me to have to pay extra to use something in the interim while waiting for the map I want. Good thing I have the World Cup to distract me a little bit from this. How about that Shaka Hislop? Hate that the warranty clock is ticking while my unit sits there mapless. Thanks for the history of how they've backdated the release date and given folks discount for the update.

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