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Two More Unsecure "travel Bug Hotels" Approved In My Area - Can We Ban "travel Bug Hotels"?


Highpointer
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Two new so-called "travel bug hotels" were approved in the Phoenix metropolitan area this week, and based on the descriptions of these caches, they appear to be caches that have a high risk of being muggled :anitongue: and thus are not good places to drop travel bugs. Most "travel bug hotels" that I have seen are not safe caches for travel bugs drops. A disproportionately high percentage of them become muggled, some only a few days or weeks after being placed. When this happens, multiple numbers of travel bugs are usually lost.

 

I really would like to see "travel bug hotels" banned or approved only with restrictions in place to improve the security of these caches. Can Geocaching.com implement this policy?

 

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer)

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Two new so-called "travel bug hotels" were approved in the Phoenix metropolitan area this week, and based on the descriptions of these caches, they appear to be caches that have a high risk of being muggled

 

So you're b!tchin' and you haven't even BEEN there??? :laughing:

 

Most "travel bug hotels" that I have seen are not safe caches for travel bugs drops. A disproportionately high percentage of them become muggled, some only a few days or weeks after being placed. When this happens, multiple numbers of travel bugs are usually lost.

 

A TB hotel is just a cache like ANY other. Any regular sized cache can get muggled with multiple TBs inside. Just because it's a TB cache doesn't make it bad.

 

Most of the TB hotel's I have seen and all of the TB hotels I own have been very secure & STILL I had one disappear, but same goes for all of my other caches and yet some go missing and with TBs inside yet. :laughing:

 

I really would like to see "travel bug hotels" banned or approved only with restrictions in place to improve the security of these caches. Can Geocaching.com implement this policy?

 

YAY! More rules.... :anitongue:

 

How bout this instead.

 

Before anyone sends a bug out into the wild, they LET GO of any feelings they have for it and let it live its own life. I have well over 100 of my own and I haven't had so much as a drop of acid reflux over the ones I have released that have gone missing, been held too long, or whatever.

 

A TB is an item that was basically thrown away and placed in public trust. Wanna know how much I trust the public? Better to divest yourself of all feeling for it and enjoy the good parts when/IF they happen. :laughing:

 

After logging 1250+ bugs, I can honestly say that the absolute worst parts of the TB game are the owners who hold on too tight/TRY to exert control and the interested parties who take it upon themselves to watchdog everyone else's for the common good.

 

Sheesh. Is it any wonder I call this forum the "whining and unrealistic expectation forum."

 

EDIT: Hmmmm, to prove my point, one of your own missing bugs disappeared from one of my caches that was in a VERY secure location atop a volcanic knob at nearly 9,000 feet in elevation. It wasn't a TB cache. Some locals found the cache and left a message on my sister's answering machine asking for $4,000 to return it. :laughing:

Edited by Snoogans
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Thanks for the post snoogans. I have been guilty of getting too attached to my bugs in the past. But you're right, it's just part of the gamble of releasing these things into the public. It's so easy to just start another one if one gets lost. I'll just get TWO now if I really like a bug! Luckily I haven't lost one yet, so I am just living high on the hog now and appreciate that all of mine are still in circulation. One disappeared for several months but I contacted the last holder and they found it in their closet!

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First, before you complain, look at the caches.

Second, there is no such thing as secure without having security staff, and not even then.

 

I have a TB hotel inside a visitors center watched by volunteers. Bugs still get jacked.

 

A TB Hotel should have easy access for travelers who might help a bug travel. Easy access for locals to drop off bugs they have been holding too long, a tinch less risk of loss than the standard caches that bugs already travel within. Those are my guidelines not this sites.

 

What you ask for is too much to ask for because the reality is, all caches are TB hotels. A few happen to have the name.

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Two new so-called "travel bug hotels" were approved in the Phoenix metropolitan area this week, and based on the descriptions of these caches, they appear to be caches that have a high risk of being muggled

 

So you're b!tchin' and you haven't even BEEN there??? :ninja:

 

I zoomed in on the locations of both of the caches on both Google and Mapquest maps, and I saw where they would be and observed that they were both likely located in areas where they would have a high risk of being muggled. I did visit one of the caches tonight and observed that this caches is perhaps the most exposed non-virtual cache that I have ever found. It is located in the parking lot of an office building with no cover or disguise whatsover. I do not like to leave travel bugs in exposed caches, so I would not leave any travel bugs in this cache.

 

If geocacachers have travel bugs to deposit in caches, why don't they find quality geocaches and place them in those caches? For example, South Mountain Park in Phoenix must have more than 30 or 40 caches within its boundaries (I don't know that exact number - the exact number may be even greater than that). Most of those caches have containers large enough to accomodate travel bugs. South Mountain Park is close to downtown Phoenix and is close to the geocache-rich suburbs of Tempe, Scottsdale, and Chandler.

 

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer)

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I did visit one of the caches tonight and observed that this caches is perhaps the most exposed non-virtual cache that I have ever found. It is located in the parking lot of an office building with no cover or disguise whatsover. I do not like to leave travel bugs in exposed caches, so I would not leave any travel bugs in this cache.

 

If geocacachers have travel bugs to deposit in caches, why don't they find quality geocaches and place them in those caches?

 

You're generalizing. I'm a geocacher and I WON'T leave a bug in an unsecure location, nor would I hide a TB hotel in an unsafe location.

 

Some folks just don't care. I'm finding more and more the ones that don't care have had a bad experience with a TB owner or two, or one of the freaky interested parties I spoke of earlier.

 

IE - I moved 2 bugs bugs from the same owner over 300 miles and when I got home, I had a nasty note from the owner for not posting any pictures. This same owner had totally screwed up one of their bugs and I had helped them fix the problem just a week earlier. If I had still had that person's bugs for lack of a safe place to leave them, I might have just tossed 'em and saved someone else the trouble.

 

I've had a dozen such experiences with TB owners (and a half dozen more with freaky interested parties ) and it never ceases to amaze me the gall of some people over something so trivial. Never give a geocacher a horse! :ninja:

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Two new so-called "travel bug hotels" were approved in the Phoenix metropolitan area this week, and based on the descriptions of these caches, they appear to be caches that have a high risk of being muggled :ninja: and thus are not good places to drop travel bugs. Most "travel bug hotels" that I have seen are not safe caches for travel bugs drops. A disproportionately high percentage of them become muggled, some only a few days or weeks after being placed. When this happens, multiple numbers of travel bugs are usually lost.

 

I really would like to see "travel bug hotels" banned or approved only with restrictions in place to improve the security of these caches. Can Geocaching.com implement this policy?

 

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer)

For better or worse there are no rules for 'travel bug hotels'. Someone can make a cache as easy or hard, or 'secure' or in the middle of a bike trail, and still call it a hotel. This is cache owners choice. Just like it is the choice of a cache finder if they should leave a tb there or take to another cache, sometimes people make decisions that turn out to be bad, hopefully it seem right to them at the time.

If your serious about adding some sort of rule you might want to post this idea to the gc.com forum where Jeremy et al. may see it. But I have to tell you, I don't see how reviewers will ever be able to determine if a location is 'secure' or not without actually visiting the location, which will not happen. So even if a new rule were added, how could it be enforced?

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..... I don't see how reviewers will ever be able to determine if a location is 'secure' or not without actually visiting the location, which will not happen.

 

I assumed that someone did go check out the proposed cache. Guess I was wrong. :P

Edited by Team 5150
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..... I don't see how reviewers will ever be able to determine if a location is 'secure' or not without actually visiting the location, which will not happen.

 

I assumed that someone did go check out the proposed cache. Guess I was wrong. :P

Oh someone checks the spot, its just usually the first person seeking the cache after its 'published' :P .

A reviewers area might be a whole state, or sometimes bigger areas. So there is no way they could physically check the cache (how much time and $$ would it cost to do that for every submission anyways??). They read the description, plot the location(s) out on maps, and ask questions if something seems off, while trying to determine if the cache meets the guidelines or not. But all of it is done without personally visiting the location.

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A TB is an item that was basically thrown away and placed in public trust.

 

Well put Snoogums. You realistically understand the reality of Travel Bug and GeoCoin ownership when they are released. Wish more people understood that. Unfortunately there is an urealistic espectation by many folks that once they release (abandon) any trackable into a cache or event they have voluntarily given up ownership whether they wish to believe so or not.

 

Dan

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I hear you, Highpointer. I hate the darned things, too.

 

I don't see them getting banned, though, since what constitutes a hotel really is a semantic exercise. The difference between a hotel and a regular cache, as far as the listing guidelines go, is that a hotel has "hotel" in the title. I tend to cache around them, unless I have an unusually large or awkward bug to get rid of (and I usually end up with those by grabbing what's left at the end of a meet, to make sure they don't end up in limbo. But don't get me started on TB's in meets).

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A TB is an item that was basically thrown away and placed in public trust.

 

Well put Snoogums. You realistically understand the reality of Travel Bug and GeoCoin ownership when they are released. Wish more people understood that. Unfortunately there is an urealistic espectation by many folks that once they release (abandon) any trackable into a cache or event they have voluntarily given up ownership whether they wish to believe so or not.

 

Dan

 

I just can't let it go... I released one little guy last summer and he up and dissappearing before even being logged one time. I have since turned my entire home into a shrine in his honor, I light candles for him every night and cry myself to sleep wondering if he's ok. So far I've lost my job because I can't stop weeping in front of the boss. I've lost my family because they think I'm crazy for building a 20ft tall replica of the little guy in my backyard. My dogs have left me because I forget to feed them after I curl up in a little ball and cry myself to sleep. I just can't seem to get over the loss of this my dear travel bug. :cry:

 

But wait... he was in a fairly well hidden, regular cache, that was nearly impossible to see if you weren't looking for it. Maybe it's not just hotels that get muggled. Hmmm... :)

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I'm sorry, but we really couldn't ban TB hotels. They aren't all in unsecure locations. Reviewers are all volunteers and since there is no pay, or budget for travel to each location, in order to review it, the best they can do is work with online resources and mapping software to check on locations. While I am not a proponent of TB hotels, and many do go missing, it is not up to me. Anyone placing a TB hotel should take into consideration the muggle factor when placing it. Sure a highway rest stop is a handy location for travellers, but it's the worst place to drop off TBs if you're worried about muggles! Why not find a park off the highway to hide it in, and give the traveller a chance to stretch their legs?

 

My suggestion to those who do not like TB hotels. Add instructions to your TB page and a tag to your TB to tell cachers that you do not want your TB to go into a TB hotel. It won't reduce the chances of a TB going missing, but it will reduce the chances of a TB going missing from aTB hotel.

 

We cannot make new rules for every single thing. The only way to reduce missing TBs would be to ban the TBs themselves. And that's not going to happen!

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A TB is an item that was basically thrown away and placed in public trust.

 

Well put Snoogums. You realistically understand the reality of Travel Bug and GeoCoin ownership when they are released. Wish more people understood that. Unfortunately there is an urealistic espectation by many folks that once they release (abandon) any trackable into a cache or event they have voluntarily given up ownership whether they wish to believe so or not.

 

Dan

 

There is a world of difference between having a realistic expectation and giving up ownership. I have high hopes that my TB will make it's goal and I absolutly positivly own it. However I am also realistic in knowing it comes it goes, it's dissapeared for a year, or months at a time. That's life. If however someone stole it and I had the means to prosecute them for the theft I would. Actually being able to do that is also an unrealistic expectation.

 

Bottom line, I did not give up ownership. I merely assumed the risks when I released my bug.

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"I just can't let it go... I released one little guy last summer and he up and dissappearing before even being logged one time. I have since turned my entire home into a shrine in his honor, I light candles for him every night and cry myself to sleep wondering if he's ok. So far I've lost my job because I can't stop weeping in front of the boss. I've lost my family because they think I'm crazy for building a 20ft tall replica of the little guy in my backyard. My dogs have left me because I forget to feed them after I curl up in a little ball and cry myself to sleep. I just can't seem to get over the loss of this my dear travel bug. :lol: "

 

:D:D:D:rolleyes::lol::laughing:

the love of a geocacher.......or is it insanity?

Edited by smilingsteeles
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I'm sorry, but we really couldn't ban TB hotels.

Oh, well...actually, it would be extremely easy to ban TB hotels. All you'd have to do is refuse to approve a cache that called itself one.

 

I don't see that happening and I understand why. But it's important to recognize the difference between can't and won't.

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I'm sorry, but we really couldn't ban TB hotels.

Oh, well...actually, it would be extremely easy to ban TB hotels. All you'd have to do is refuse to approve a cache that called itself one.

 

I don't see that happening and I understand why. But it's important to recognize the difference between can't and won't.

 

But then you would have the Travel Bug Motel, The Travel Bug Bed and Breakfast, or the super secret Not for Travel Bugs (wink, wink) caches.

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I'm sorry, but we really couldn't ban TB hotels.

Oh, well...actually, it would be extremely easy to ban TB hotels. All you'd have to do is refuse to approve a cache that called itself one.

 

I don't see that happening and I understand why. But it's important to recognize the difference between can't and won't.

 

But then you would have the Travel Bug Motel, The Travel Bug Bed and Breakfast, or the super secret Not for Travel Bugs (wink, wink) caches.

 

Ban any cache that states it would be a good place to drop a bug. It's that easy.

Edited by BlueDeuce
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I'm sorry, but we really couldn't ban TB hotels.

Oh, well...actually, it would be extremely easy to ban TB hotels. All you'd have to do is refuse to approve a cache that called itself one.

 

I don't see that happening and I understand why. But it's important to recognize the difference between can't and won't.

 

But then you would have the Travel Bug Motel, The Travel Bug Bed and Breakfast, or the super secret Not for Travel Bugs (wink, wink) caches.

 

Ban any cache that states it would be a good place to drop a bug. It's that easy.

Just do what eartha suggested earlier, ban all TBs.

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I'm sorry, but we really couldn't ban TB hotels.

Oh, well...actually, it would be extremely easy to ban TB hotels. All you'd have to do is refuse to approve a cache that called itself one.

 

I don't see that happening and I understand why. But it's important to recognize the difference between can't and won't.

 

But then you would have the Travel Bug Motel, The Travel Bug Bed and Breakfast, or the super secret Not for Travel Bugs (wink, wink) caches.

 

Ban any cache that states it would be a good place to drop a bug. It's that easy.

Just do what eartha suggested earlier, ban all TBs.

Easier to ban users too stupid to follow a simple argument.

 

No cache can function as a TB hotel without somehow declaring itself to be one in its description or title. If there were a policy against approving such caches, they would cease to be. The fact that some caches are exceptionally convenient to the road or large and accomodating is not a problem. The fact that some caches advertise themselves as hotels and become collection centers for bugs, with all the attendant risks, can certainly be a problem.

 

I've never come out arguing the darn things should be banned, no matter how much I dislike them. But the more people here flap their hands and declare such a thing simply impossible, the more irritating it is.

 

Almost as irritating as the way users are savagely mocked for liking their TB's and caring what happens to them.

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Easier to ban users too stupid to follow a simple argument.

 

No cache can function as a TB hotel without somehow declaring itself to be one in its description or title. If there were a policy against approving such caches, they would cease to be. The fact that some caches are exceptionally convenient to the road or large and accomodating is not a problem. The fact that some caches advertise themselves as hotels and become collection centers for bugs, with all the attendant risks, can certainly be a problem.

 

I've never come out arguing the darn things should be banned, no matter how much I dislike them. But the more people here flap their hands and declare such a thing simply impossible, the more irritating it is.

 

Almost as irritating as the way users are savagely mocked for liking their TB's and caring what happens to them.

I gotta disagree there, the location and function are far more of a problem then the name. If you did ban any cache with hotel in the name, then you'll have to ban motel,lodge,Inn, (and all the other names used since they're all used to mean the same thing). And of course you'll have to lock the naming field (and description) so cache owners cannot change it after the cache has been listed.

With all the hotels 'gone' the caches that have the same function, but not the same name (or description) would need to be addressed. You'd have to start going after all the caches in rest stops, and near interstate extis, and in parks close to airports. Otherwise people might be wanting to use them for quick easy drop points (secure or not).

Maybe we could just ban easy to reach caches, but again the reviewers still don't have time/money to go check these locations.

Maybe we could just ban lazy cachers that leave Tb in easy caches. There are two problems with this, first there are many many easy caches. There are far more low rated caches then high rated caches. Second there are far more people (myself included) that have, do, or will visit easy caches, then those that visit only hard ones. So banning these people means banning a very large part of the cacher population. But at least those few that always do the long walks up the mountain won't be dropping off any TBs into hotels. (once they find some tbs that are already in caches hard enough they won't be banned for visiting that is.)

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No, it's the name.

 

People approach a "hotel" (or "inn" or "motel") differently than they do other caches. They have low expectations of the cache location. They accept lameness as unimportant. They are less likely to leave a grumpy log when they discover an ammo can under a cement block by the side of the road near the airport. They are not surprised to see multiple TB's in them and may well be reluctant to take multiple TB's out. They may be reluctant to take the last TB (or any TB) if they haven't one to leave in trade. Often, other swag is discouraged.

 

If nothing in the name or description tipped off a reviewer that a cache is a TB hotel, then nothing would similarly tip off the cachers who hunt for it. And hence it wouldn't be one.

 

Again, I'm not arguing that such a thing should be done. I'm just ticked that it keeps being described as this amazing, impossible thing to do. After all, it's much easier to spot a TB hotel from the description than a commercial cache, and the latter are not permitted.

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Jeeze!!

 

Who really gives a darn!

 

They are TB's.

 

They go missing, no matter where they are put.

 

You accept this risk when you put them out.

 

Give it a rest.

 

I am a noobie and have figured this one out already.

 

People like you give me headaches.

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Ok...now I feel personally assaulted. We found ourselves with a collection of TB's that had been placed in caches with difficult terrain and we had rescued them from languishing in those caches for the Arizona summertime. So, seemed like a good idea to start a Hotel. Didn't know there was attitude against them!

 

So yes, it's close to a road. And yes, we called it a TB Hotel. And yes, it's a lame find. But I could care if there's other swag in it. And if one of my TB's go missing, then that's that. It's a TB, for goodness' sake...not a person!

 

So, hope y'all visit my lame-o Hotel that isn't approved just yet. Makes me feel like I should have just named it Lame-O Cache. Hmmm...is there time to change it before it gets approved? Gotta run and check!

 

Shari of ShaMik

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Ok...now I feel personally assaulted. We found ourselves with a collection of TB's that had been placed in caches with difficult terrain and we had rescued them from languishing in those caches for the Arizona summertime. So, seemed like a good idea to start a Hotel. Didn't know there was attitude against them!

 

So yes, it's close to a road. And yes, we called it a TB Hotel. And yes, it's a lame find. But I could care if there's other swag in it. And if one of my TB's go missing, then that's that. It's a TB, for goodness' sake...not a person!

 

So, hope y'all visit my lame-o Hotel that isn't approved just yet. Makes me feel like I should have just named it Lame-O Cache. Hmmm...is there time to change it before it gets approved? Gotta run and check!

 

Shari of ShaMik

 

The problem with easy-to-find "travel bug hotels" is that they encourage the accumulation of multiple travel bugs in a single cache that has a high probability of being muggled. When a cache is muggled with multiple travel bugs in it, then all travel bugs in the cache at that time are lost.

 

It is better, in my opinion, to distribute travel bugs to multiple caches, to spread out the risk of travel bugs losses. Placing caches close to well-travelled roads is generally not a good idea because such caches have a high probability of being found by non-geocachers, some of whom have the propensity to steal or ransack caches. Caches near roads may also be found by road cleanup crews or "adopt-a-highway" cleanup crews who figure such containers are trash and will discard them.

 

If you find multiple travel bugs, instead of making a "travel bug hotel", why not go on a trip and find more caches to place the travel bugs in? If you live in the Phoenix area, the summer is a great time to visit caches in high-elevation regions like Prescott, Sedona, Flagstaff, and Payson. In addition to finding existing caches, why not make some new quality caches to place in the higher elevation regions? We need to increase the cache density in those areas. They don't need to be difficult caches - I have found some high-quality caches in the rural and high-elevation regions that are only a few hundred feet away from well-graded dirt roads.

 

As an outdoor enthusiast, I really would like to see more caches in the rural and high-elevation regions of Arizona. In my opinion, geocaching shouldn't be a predominantly urban activity for relatively sedentary people. If you look at a map of the cache distribution in Arizona, you can find many areas where there are no caches within a radius of several miles. Let's put some caches out there!

 

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer)

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I established a travel bug hotel in my area. I did so because people wanted it and encouraged me to do it. I took care to place the bug in an area where few muggles are likely to go but still convenient to the Interstate. I wanted to make it fairly easy to get on and off the Interstate yet not likely to get muggled. Finally, I made it a members only cache. I did this to further minimize the possibility of abuse. It has been operating pretty well since placed a few months ago and I'm hopeful that it will continue to serve the area for a long time. Travel Bug Hotels serve a useful purpose if done right. There are a lot of us out here that would strenuously object to a ban.

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I really would like to see "travel bug hotels" banned or approved only with restrictions in place to improve the security of these caches. Can Geocaching.com implement this policy?

 

YAY! More rules.... :rolleyes:

 

How bout this instead.

 

Before anyone sends a bug out into the wild, they LET GO of any feelings they have for it and let it live its own life. I have well over 100 of my own and I haven't had so much as a drop of acid reflux over the ones I have released that have gone missing, been held too long, or whatever.

 

A TB is an item that was basically thrown away and placed in public trust. Wanna know how much I trust the public? Better to divest yourself of all feeling for it and enjoy the good parts when/IF they happen. :(

 

After logging 1250+ bugs, I can honestly say that the absolute worst parts of the TB game are the owners who hold on too tight/TRY to exert control and the interested parties who take it upon themselves to watchdog everyone else's for the common good.

 

Sheesh. Is it any wonder I call this forum the "whining and unrealistic expectation forum."

 

EDIT: Hmmmm, to prove my point, one of your own missing bugs disappeared from one of my caches that was in a VERY secure location atop a volcanic knob at nearly 9,000 feet in elevation. It wasn't a TB cache. Some locals found the cache and left a message on my sister's answering machine asking for $4,000 to return it. :(

 

This is an excellent perspective on travel bugs. I have seven of them. Three are listed as unknown location. Two have been sitting for several months. Two are moving pretty well at the present time. When you get a notice that your bug has traveled, it's a nice tidbit for the day. Otherwise, you get on with your life.

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I run a very popular airport TB hotel in Portland, Oregon and never had any problems, and a LOT of praise for it. Never been muggled because it has extremely adequate camo. :lol:

 

I saw a TB hotel in southern california that was disgused as an electrical box. Had a combo lock on it too. Best protection for TBs that I have ever seen. :lol:

 

Honestly, it's all in the planning and how you set it up. ALL caches are prone to having things stolen from them.

 

A well-planned TB hotel cache is well worth it. One that is not well-planned simply isn't. Same for all caches.

 

Don't dump on ALL TB hotels because of a few lame TB hotels out there.

Edited by Sparrowhawk
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Just a newbie here, I have been viewing this thread for a sometime. Here is my point; I spend a lot of time on the road, traveling 2 wks a month. TB Hotels/Inns work for me. Helps keep life simple on the road. Keeping the tags in play is part of the game. After all, it beats sitting in the hotel room flipping channels.

 

If you don’t like hotels or don’t what your tag in a hotel, you can always put a note on your tag. However, you may see fewer miles traveled. Just a rant………… :anibad::P

Edited by foundbutlost
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Hmmmm, to prove my point, one of your own missing bugs disappeared from one of my caches that was in a VERY secure location atop a volcanic knob at nearly 9,000 feet in elevation. It wasn't a TB cache. Some locals found the cache and left a message on my sister's answering machine asking for $4,000 to return it. :)

 

You're kidding! The locals aren't very bright, are they? I hope they held their breaths while waiting for your return call! :ph34r:

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So, realistically, a TB Hotel, Motel, B & B, Transfer Portal, or whatever the owner chooses to call it, is just another cache. If the owner chooses to stock it with a few TBs he has collected, in order to move them on, so what? If other cachers choose to take and leave TBs at that cache, so what? As long as the TBs missions are being honored, all is good!

The OP has a self proclaimed policy: "My style of geocaching is to pick up every travel bug that I see, and I do not leave a cache with more than one travel bug in it. Leaving multiple travel bugs in a cache presents too much risk to travel bugs, because if a cache is muggled with travel bugs in it, then all of the travel bugs in the cache at that time are lost."

 

This is fine if the individual retrieving the TB(s) is actually furthering it's(their) goal(s), but otherwise I see it as another poorly rationalized excuse for Travel Bug GREED, and an effort to control that which is uncontrollable!

 

By the same logic, no cacher should be in possession of more than one Travel Bug at a time, in case they're in a car crash on the way home! Oh, or maybe their house might burn down after they have collected all the Travel Bugs they can get their hands on!

 

As Snoogans said early-on in this thread (paraphrase) "The key word in the sentence 'I released my Travel Bug today.' is RELEASED!"

 

EDIT: 'cause I can.

Edited by AZcachemeister
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I don't care either way. Geocachers (not all of them) have pretty much proven that there is a way around just about any guideline that there is.

 

I have a travel bug locked up in Fort frickin' Knox. A members only travel bug jail in bum screw ME.

 

But I don't lose any sleep over it. I'm just thrilled that I got more than 100 miles out of it for the $10 I invested into it.

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Travel Bug GREED

 

If any geocacher is reading this please take any of my Travel Bugs with you to the next cache, please. There is no such thing as being greedy when it comes to moving Travel Bugs, they are meant to Travel and you are helping them and the geocachers who own them when you pick them up and take them, all of them, all the time. The more Travel Bugs you move along the more Travel Bugs and geocachers you are helping.

 

Cache owners who place any type of restriction, even one as simple as "Leave one bug in this cache." are demonstrating that they fail to understand the general parameters of the game.

 

Cachers who want you to believe that the Travel Bugs are trade items or items that have been "thrown away" are demonstrating that they fail to understand the general parameters of the game.

 

When you place a Travel Bug into play you place it into the trust of the geocaching community, you are not ceding ownership of the Travel Bug, it is still yours, like your caches. You are entrusting your TB to geocachers who should help your bug accomplish it's mission.

 

So please always take my Travel Bugs, you cannot be greedy when it comes to helping other cachers out by moving their Travel Bugs.

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...There is no such thing as being greedy when it comes to moving Travel Bugs, they are meant to Travel and you are helping them and the geocachers who own them when you pick them up and take them, all of them, all the time. The more Travel Bugs you move along the more Travel Bugs and geocachers you are helping. ...

 

I see what you are saying but there really is such a thing as greed though maybe not in the traditional sence.

 

Those who go find travel bugs in an area just to keep their hotel stocked are being greedy.

Those who move bugs come hell or highwater and move them in opposite directions to their goals are being greedy.

 

There are probably other forms of travel bug greed but those are the two that I've encountered.

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Travel Bug GREED

If any geocacher is reading this please take any of my Travel Bugs with you to the next cache, please. There is no such thing as being greedy when it comes to moving Travel Bugs, they are meant to Travel and you are helping them and the geocachers who own them when you pick them up and take them, all of them, all the time. The more Travel Bugs you move along the more Travel Bugs and geocachers you are helping.

 

Some cacher picked up my daughter's TB along with a bunch of others and has walked them through four states, logging them through caches, posting group photos, telling stories.

 

This has been the best treatment I have ever seen for a bug released by my family. Is this guy being greedy by collecting a bunch of TBs and holding on to them while he caches? Hardly.

 

He's doing exactly what we hoped would happen, someone is enjoying our bug and is sharing the experience.

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Travel Bug GREED

If any geocacher is reading this please take any of my Travel Bugs with you to the next cache, please. There is no such thing as being greedy when it comes to moving Travel Bugs, they are meant to Travel and you are helping them and the geocachers who own them when you pick them up and take them, all of them, all the time. The more Travel Bugs you move along the more Travel Bugs and geocachers you are helping.

 

Some cacher picked up my daughter's TB along with a bunch of others and has walked them through four states, logging them through caches, posting group photos, telling stories.

 

This has been the best treatment I have ever seen for a bug released by my family. Is this guy being greedy by collecting a bunch of TBs and holding on to them while he caches? Hardly.

 

He's doing exactly what we hoped would happen, someone is enjoying our bug and is sharing the experience.

 

How lucky you are!

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Those who move bugs come hell or highwater

 

I have to say RK, I really do not agree with this one, this is exactly the opposite of greed.

Geocachers who go out of their way to move bugs and do it all the time are doing exactly as requested by almost every Travel Bug owner in the world today, "Please move my bug". The phrase hell or highwater aside there is no way that moving bugs can be greedy, ever. That is like saying that finding all the caches in an area is being greedy, the caches are there to be found and the TB's are there to be moved, no greed involved at all.

 

Those who go find travel bugs in an area just to keep their hotel stocked are being greedy.

 

If a Travel Bug Hotel has any type of restriction at all, even a simple one like "Please leave one bug in this cache at all times" it is just a prison and anyone putting TB's in such a cache isn't being greedy, they are being a poor custodian of another geocacher's TB. If a cache owner thinks his cache should have TB's in it and has to collect and place the TB's himself he isn't being greedy, he is just being stupid. If a cache calls itself a hotel and it is convenient and secure it is a good place for TB's it will likely have many cachers placing TB's into it, not out of greed but out of convenience. If the owner is one of those geocachers it makes no difference.

 

move them in opposite directions to their goals are being greedy

 

Moving a bug in a direction opposite to the one it is traveling is not helpful but if you log it no harm is ever done, the owner gets a log on the bug and small moves in any direction do not hurt. If a geocacher was to consistently ignore the wishes of TB owners and move TB's away from their goals that would be extremely poor play and I agree, it might be poor play motivated by a greed for higher TB numbers.

 

TB greed just doesn't exist except in the narrowest definition. Greed implies that a geocachers is taking more than their share and since TB's are always owned by another player they really can't be shared. The owner selects the mission and the most common mission of TB's is simple, move from cache to cache. Anyone who assists with that mission is helping the owner and the TB, they are not being greedy at all.

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TB greed just doesn't exist except in the narrowest definition. Greed implies that a geocachers is taking more than their share and since TB's are always owned by another player they really can't be shared. The owner selects the mission and the most common mission of TB's is simple, move from cache to cache. Anyone who assists with that mission is helping the owner and the TB, they are not being greedy at all.

 

 

How about people who visit a cache remove a coin and make no mention of their visit in the logbook or on line?

 

That would be theft based on.... Greed? Yes.

Is it a rare occurance? No.

 

How about a cacher who harvests all TBs in their area, in complete disregard for their goals, places them in a high difficulty cache and claims they are only adding to the fun. And they do this A LOT.

 

Somebody greedy for attention and doesn't care about the impact? Unfortunately yes. (I am not stating a hypothetical situation)

 

Edit: I meant that as an adjective, not a verb.

Edited by BlueDeuce
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That would be theft

 

It is very unfortunate that people do this and I am not sure what they are attempting to accomplish when they steal someone else's TB, perhaps they enjoy a tangible reminder of the fact that they have stolen something from another player, perhaps they really are illiterate and ignorant of the facts and think they are allowed to take the item and keep it, still others choose to do it knowingly and I agree, it is not rare. I suppose you are entirely correct in assessing this as greed but the deepest impact of the theft is the destruction of trust between geocachers and the geocaching community. More and more people have had to accept that greed will rule the geocoin game. You can find experienced geocachers advocating theft without looking too far. We have tried to counteract this in our area by giving away new unactivated geocoins with the instruction that they can be traded or taken, people log those. :D

 

complete disregard for their goals

 

The cacher who is taking TB's and moving them in a fashion that is contrary to the owners stated mission is hindering the TB's rather than helping the TB's. Moving TB's, even into difficult caches, is always a good thing unless you are moving them contrary to the owners stated mission and doing this knowingly and repeatedly is sure to cause ill will. I am not sure that simply moving TB's to a highly difficult location is greed but it is inconsiderate to knowingly move TB's with complete disregard for the mission that the owner selected. A geocacher could simply discover TB's which he cannot assist and leave them for another cacher to help. Many geocachers in different parts of the country seem to have some expectation that TB's are there to enrich their local caching landscape, they aren't, TB's belong to the owner and they are on a mission which the owner has selected. If a geocacher picks up every TB in an area and moves them along then that is exactly what they are supposed to be doing. There are other geocachers who fail to grasp the general parameters of the game and feel that this is greedy, they are wrong.

 

"Greedy for attention" is very real and I am sure it causes problems but I don't think that the geocachers who yell "travel bug greed" are referring to those seeking attention, they are yelling greed because they feel that they should get a chance to log a TB or they feel TB's are there to make a caching trip more enjoyable or to decorate the local landscape. I have seen TB's referred to as "local TB's" which really made me laugh out loud.

 

A geocacher threatened to quit geocaching and started a thread to sell all his geocaches because another geocacher had come to his area and picked up all the "local TB's", :D:)

The sad part was that this geocacher had been a member for years and still failed to grasp the simplest parameter - TB's belong to other geocachers, they are not "local TB's" even if they are in your area, TB's are not there to enrich geocaching trips, they are owned by and given a mission by another geocacher.

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No, no. Don’t break that all apart. I don’t care if a cache moves a bug against its goal, I don’t care if a bug is placed in a difficult cache, and I don’t care if they move a bunch a bug from an area.

But when they do “all three things, at the same time, month after month”, then come here to the forums and brag about it, that person probably didn’t get enough attention as a child.

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No, no. Don’t break that all apart. I don’t care if a cache moves a bug against its goal, I don’t care if a bug is placed in a difficult cache, and I don’t care if they move a bunch a bug from an area.

But when they do “all three things, at the same time, month after month”, then come here to the forums and brag about it, that person probably didn’t get enough attention as a child.

 

You may be correct but you have described "greedy for attention" not "travel bug greed". In this case I would say the TB's are simply a being used as a tool for collecting attention. It can be difficult to pin down mishandling of TB's as so many have no mission tags and no additional information that indicates where they should go but repeat incidents of mishandling are likely a sign that something is not kopacetic.

 

Pissing off the local populace is not a real measure though as many have been infected by a mindset which simply cannot acknowledge that TB's belong to other geocachers, I have seen an apparently experienced geocacher telling another geocacher to "keep" a TB tag they do not own. :D Really. I have seen an apparently experienced geocacher telling geocachers that they were "throwing away" TB's when they released them into the trust of the geocaching community. :)

 

I am the owner of a TB Hotel cache called TBTCDNAB. It is in a very secure location and it is a largish regular cache. It has no trading restricitons at all and encourages any geocacher to take all the bugs, all the time. I placed this TB hotel to help counteract a trend in the next province where geocachers seem to think that TB's are a trade item. One new nearby prison cache in that province even had the owner using the cache page as a pulpit to express his mistaken beliefs that TB etiquette states that TB's should be traded. The other cachers in that area who do get out may discover that TB etiquette is exactly the opposite of what is being said by the local prison administrator.

 

I do agree with you, some geocachers are more interested in themselves than the TB's they pick up that they are supposed to be helping.

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No, no. Don’t break that all apart. I don’t care if a cache moves a bug against its goal, I don’t care if a bug is placed in a difficult cache, and I don’t care if they move a bunch a bug from an area.

But when they do “all three things, at the same time, month after month”, then come here to the forums and brag about it, that person probably didn’t get enough attention as a child.

 

You may be correct but you have described "greedy for attention" not "travel bug greed". In this case I would say the TB's are simply a being used as a tool for collecting attention. It can be difficult to pin down mishandling of TB's as so many have no mission tags and no additional information that indicates where they should go but repeat incidents of mishandling are likely a sign that something is not kopacetic.

 

Pissing off the local populace is not a real measure though as many have been infected by a mindset which simply cannot acknowledge that TB's belong to other geocachers, I have seen an apparently experienced geocacher telling another geocacher to "keep" a TB tag they do not own. :D Really. I have seen an apparently experienced geocacher telling geocachers that they were "throwing away" TB's when they released them into the trust of the geocaching community. :D

 

I am the owner of a TB Hotel cache called TBTCDNAB. It is in a very secure location and it is a largish regular cache. It has no trading restricitons at all and encourages any geocacher to take all the bugs, all the time. I placed this TB hotel to help counteract a trend in the next province where geocachers seem to think that TB's are a trade item. One new nearby prison cache in that province even had the owner using the cache page as a pulpit to express his mistaken beliefs that TB etiquette states that TB's should be traded. The other cachers in that area who do get out may discover that TB etiquette is exactly the opposite of what is being said by the local prison administrator.

 

I do agree with you, some geocachers are more interested in themselves than the TB's they pick up that they are supposed to be helping.

 

I think u r a good TB Hotel Manager -= there is a TB hotel in our area that has 6 TB's right now and 2 of them have been there for over a year each! It has a restriction that you have to have a TB to trade or you can not pick them up - Perhaps it is because people didn't have TB's to trade that the 2 TB's have languished there so long?

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For $10,000 U.S. Dollars per cache I will personally verify any cache witch seems to be unsecure and will be happy to give it my review.

 

What will that do…. Well beets me but I might end up agreeing with you…… or not.

:drama:

 

Oh forgot to say 5 cache min request.

Edited by PCFrog
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