Logging Finds For Missing Caches

May 19, 2006

Okay, I really try to mind my own business while participating in this hobby-- but I've got to vent on this one

Does anyone here think that it is acceptable to log a find for a missing cache just because you found the hiding spot? As far as we're concerned, if we didn't find the cache it's a DNF-- even if it's gone and we found the little strip of magnet or velcro that was supposed to be holding the thing! So when I read the following log for a cache in our area I just had to laugh....

Really? Is this cool?

We live in the area so we checked the cache (which we had already found) and emailed the owner to let them know that the cache was certainly missing. Owner temporarily disables cache and "anonymous geocacher" logs a find ! Am I nuts to think that's strange? Would you log a find in this situation?

May 19, 2006

Wouldn'd do it. It's not cool and is just cheating as far as I'm concerned.

22k · May 19, 2006

No, but that's just me.

5.3k · May 19, 2006

You might enjoy reading THIS THREAD

May 19, 2006

A person should not log a cache unless they find it. The purpose of logging to to show you found it. If the purpose was just to get to set of coordinates and not find something, why hides caches? People like that should stick to Waymarking.com

The closest I got to that was when I found the remains of a cache. The log book and most of the contents were missing. All I found was the marked container that was partially destroyed by coyotes (or kids for all I know). I have a cache I am tempted to log that is hid high up in the tree, but I have not logged it because I can't physically get to it. I can see it but I can't touch it. I won't log it until I have it in my hand.

2.3k · May 19, 2006

To each his/her own, but I would not log it I dont log it unless I hold it in my hand!

May 19, 2006

Recently on logs for a cache, it was sized up as being muggled by wildlife... Only a paperbag and a business card signed by two cachers in a plastic bag under a rock....

I contacted the owner of cache since I live closer and asked if I found site(which I had never been too) if I could restore(rescue it)... He gave me permission...

I restored it to co ordinates with new box and goodies.....And yes when I got home I logged a find...

Am I wrong for rescueing caches, resuppling them, and or adopting them...and logging Found It????

May 19, 2006

If they're new I would let it slide with a warning.

If they have a bazillion finds I would ask how they signed the log to prove they found it.

May 19, 2006

No, I think what you did was perfectly fine and is commendable for fixing someone else cache!

9.2k · May 19, 2006

I've seen logs where people haven't been able to find a cache, assume it's missing, put down a replacement cache they brought with them, and logged the cache they just placed as a find.

11.3k · May 19, 2006

You definitely earned that Found It! Thanks for rescuing "Valley View," a cache definitely worth saving!

You did good . . .

5.7k · May 19, 2006

No, you're a saint.

May 19, 2006

Miragee

to bad I did not register it before you found it, you could have gotten the free swim passes to the hot springs pool....

ops maybe should not have said that, every one will want me to rescue caches to have free swimming passes hehehehehe

But Miragee if you come back this way you will have a set of passes waiting....You taught me one thing with your log on valley view... Caching is adventure enjoyed by many and a helping hand does more good to keep the adventure going....

I always told myself when I got to 50 finds, I would put out my caches....I am holding at 48...the next two before my cache hides may be rescues...

May 19, 2006

Team Cotati

Not a saint.......just a lesson learned from my grandpa....

"Helping others will add to the lifes adventure...."

38.2k · May 19, 2006

Well you really didn't find anything, did you?

May 19, 2006

Yes Brian I did find a plastic bag with a fish bobber in it and April 18 by princess toadstool log and April 30 by Miragee (1567 found)

This bag was placed in new container...with the new stuff

May 19, 2006

Thanks for all the replies... I feel better now knowing that this isn't common practice! I'll be curious to see if the cache owner ends up deleting the find (I would!).

And to Team_Talisman-- I don't see anything wrong with what you did. First of all, you did find something-- even if it was a temporary replacement, a baggie and a log are still elements of the cache. Plus, you did something good for the caching community by replacing the container and restocking the cache . Had the "anonymous geocacher" in my example offered to help in any way, I think I'd feel differently about their log.

Happy caching to y'all

20.7k · May 19, 2006

You might like this thread, also.

4.5k · May 19, 2006

From your post it sounds like the original cache was completely missing. I would bet that the business card wasnt the original logbook and it wasn't put out by the cache owner. Sounds like someone before you tried for the cache, wrote their name on that business card, put it in a baggie, and hid it under a rock. On top of that, this rock may not even be the cache's original hiding spot. You may have more of the details which allows you to make a better call than me but from what i see here, i wouldn't log it as a find.

While i'm here, i do want to say thank you for helping out with the cache! :laughing:

9.2k · May 19, 2006

But you didn't rescue, resupply or adopt. You replaced a completely missing cache. So instead of posting a SBA, which would have resulted in either the cache owner getting off his/her butt and fixing the cache, or the cache being archived so someone could place a cache there that has an actual owner looking after it, you simply perpetuated the problem.

And as for logging a find on a cache that you just placed... :laughing:

11.3k · May 19, 2006

:rolleyes: Actually . . . Team_Talisman did not replace a "completely-missing" cache, nor did he log a find on a cache he just placed. He just put the cache contents in a new container, and added a lot of swag as well. :laughing:

I found the ziplock bag, the marginal swag, and the signed business card when I went looking for the cache which has a remarkable view of the Paradox valley in an infrequently-visited part of Colorado.

The ziplock bag was hidden under a rock and was located at GZ.

I just assumed the cache had been muggled and the container taken. Unfortunately, I've found caches in that condition before.

If I had had a container with me, and had put those items in the container, would you deny me the find? Team_Talisman did a good thing by replacing the container with one that should last a long time.

I think voluntary replacement of a leaking or missing cache container is a good thing.

7.2k · May 19, 2006

I've gotta agree with this.

5.9k · May 19, 2006

I'll never understand how someone can admit they didn't find the cache, but feel justified in logging it as found because the owner gave them permission. Does the cache owner own the english language? From another thread:

SCENARIO:

You’re shopping in the mall and come out after several hours and find your car is missing. All that remains in the empty parking spot is some broken safety glass. You call the police and mall security responds to the lot to take the report.

You: “Well, my car was parked right here but it’s gone.”

Mall Security (MS): “Right here in this empty spot?”

You: “Yes, all that’s left is this broken glass”

MS: “Oh, so you found your car.”

You: “What?”

MS: “You found your car when you came out of the mall right?”

You: “No, my car is gone, it’s been stolen.”

MS: “Well, you just said there was glass from your car here, so let’s just say you found it.”

You: “No! I didn’t find it! It’s gone!"

Just then, the mall owner shows up.

Mall Owner (MO): “Hi, I’m Jim Simon, owner of Simon Malls, what seems to be the problem?

You: “I was shopping in the mall and when I came out my car was gone.”

MO: “Where did you shop?”

You: “What? I shopped through the whole mall. What does that have to do with anything?”

MO: “Well, you walked about two miles overall then.

You: “Yes, easily that far.”

MO: “I’m going to allow you to say you found your car”

You: “What!?! Are you all insane? How can you say I found my car if it’s GONE!!!”

MS: “But you found where it was, and you found some of the car, right?”

MO: “And I’m going to allow you to say you found it.

You: “What?!!? Look, I need my car, I have to go to work tomorrow, and my spouse needs his truck at work!”

MO: "You have two cars?"

You: “Not anymore!”

MO: “It would be a shame for your numbers to be skewed because of what somebody else did, so I’m telling you that you can still say you have two cars. Thanks for shopping at Simon Malls.”

You: “WHAT!?!? This is pure insanity!!!

Indeed.

May 19, 2006

I personally would not do it but to me it is not a big problem if someone else does. If that is how they want to play what the heck.

Is it cheating? IMO yes, but not nearly as much as pocket caches and logging 30 times at the same event cache. Fix the larger problem then debating little infractions like this might mean more to me.

May 19, 2006

As far as the comment I replaced a completly missing cache, maybe you should read all the logs mentioned on this caution since Jan 1 2006..

Cachers found remanents of cache at cache site traded items and such. April 14 by princess toadstool (1763 found)

4:21 pm - Sunrise rainbow, shine ems, and I found this one on an afternoon dedicated to caching. The cache container was missing and the contents were strewn about. We signed a loose card, took a beanie baby, and left a fishing bob.

next person logging April 30 by Miragee (1567 found)

I did not have the most recent Past Logs in my Pocket Query data, so I didn't know my caching buddy P.T. was the last person to find this cache. What a surprise to see her name on the card! As she said, the container is missing. I signed the card, but the cache needs serious maintenance. The view of the valley from that location is fantastic, so I hope this cache lives on for future finders.

Then I Team_Talisman found the cache inside of a plastic bag....... Not every one has a full can or tupper ware of stuff when they are caching..... a container can be anything from a Bison-tub ot thimble to a very large container... from fake dog poo to hollowed out pine cones.... a plastic bag under a rock or bush can qualify...like the squashed pop/beer cans with a film canister hooked to the bottom...

a container with small supplies were found at the co ordinates...SO YES THERE WAS STILL AN ACTIVE CACHE..

There are three ways to log a cache 1) sign log 2)log it on web page 3) do both of the previous

Owners were contacted and were ask permission to do a rescue which they agreed to.... Archive an active found cache is not in my realm of thinking....

There were still parts of this active cache on coordinates.

I am not one to ask for SBA just so I can get a Hide credit.....

And, I am meeting the owners in 2 weeks along with a few other cachers at the site.....Will let you know the outcome

Edited May 19, 2006 by Team_Talisman

11.3k · May 19, 2006

As I stated in my previous post, the cache was not "completely missing." I found it. Team_Talisman also found it, then replaced the container.

Haven't you replaced the container for a cache you don't own before? I have.

9.2k · May 19, 2006

Sorry, but I disagree completely (and we're not talking about an existing cache that's just leaking). It would have been far better to have let the cache be archived after posting a SBA, then submit your own cache for that location. Unfortunately, what we have now is a cache with an absent owner. Possible emails from land managers or cachers with questions will go unanswered.

This doesn't seem to be a case of doing the right thing (especially since the right thing wasn't done), but doing the thing that lets you bump your find count. :laughing:

May 19, 2006

owners were contacted...... everything was agreed on..... emails were answered

Let me ask you this....are you going to SBA a cache placed since 2002 and maintained with a few Colorado mother nature problems Just so you can place a cache there???

Not me

May 19, 2006

Oh as far as bump counts hehehehe al lot of people dont even log all there finds or dnfs on GC or other caching sites only in log books...but thats a different forumn

38.2k · May 20, 2006

Sorry I missed that point. I read it to be a throw down cache, but I read it wrong. I take back what I said. Definitely a good thing to do.

11.3k · May 20, 2006

Thank you, briansnat.

Finally, someone understands. :laughing:

2.6k · May 21, 2006

I think what you did was a very nice thing to do for another cacher. Although if it would have been me I wouldn't have posted a find on it, and as to the others before you all they found were the remmennts of the cache, not the cache.

May 21, 2006

I have to say that this is the best way to look at it. As with any game, the person can see the game as they like, myself, DNF and any logs without a signature, deleted. As FARMERTED has pointed out when out caching with me and MNLOBO:

KIDATHEART: Found it!!!! :ninja:

FARMERTED: Do you have it in hand?

KIDATHEART: No

FARMERTED: Then you haven't found it yet.

KIDATHEART: Found it, in my hand

MNLOBO:

If it ain't in your hand, it ain't a find

2.1k · May 21, 2006

I see this a little differently. A paper bag can be a container just as well as a nice camo ammo can can be. If someone knows one of my containers is missing and uses a ziplock for a replacement container until I get back out there (this has happened) I am going to allow finds for anyone who subsequently finds that "container" because it is a container and they "found" it. It doesn't matter to me what is used for a logsheet as long as finders sign it.

Because of forum discussions I caved in last month and deleted my one find I claimed for replacing someones container. I'm ok with that now - I didn't have anything to find and I agree cache finds should not be taken as rewards(*). But whenever anyone places a temporary container for a missing cache then, as I see it, the next finders get to log it as a find. Seems pretty clear to me.

(*) But I will not delete anyone else's find on one of my cache if they claim it for placing a temporary container.

As I usually say when this discussion comes up: "How many times will a cacher claim a find like this in their entire caching history?" More than one time per 100 finds? More likely one per 500 is my guess. For our 105 caches placed I think people have claimed a find for temporarily placing a container for us a total of about one time!

Logging Finds For Missing Caches

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