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Christian Literature In Geocaches


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Posted

I am concerned and not happy because in Mid-Coast Maine this spring there is a great deal of Christian literature and tracts being left in the geocaches. I find this disturbing because I do not think the caches should be used to promote religious, political, or social views. This literature has an evangelizing feel to it that I do not think is appropriate and can even be offensive.

 

I hope the people who are doing this will rethink their actions and will return the caches to their former unobtrusive, non-invasive state.

 

Thank you, Corelyn Senn

catspjs@tidewater.net

Posted

Much discussed many times (search the forums).

 

What offends you easily does not offend me and vice versa. I have no personal problem with such items but I do agree that they are ineffective tools and ill placed in caches. Much better ways to express your personal beliefs and values to others.

Posted
I am concerned and not happy because in Mid-Coast Maine this spring there is a great deal of Christian literature and tracts being left in the geocaches. I find this disturbing because I do not think the caches should be used to promote religious, political, or social views. This literature has an evangelizing feel to it that I do not think is appropriate and can even be offensive.

 

I hope the people who are doing this will rethink their actions and will return the caches to their former unobtrusive, non-invasive state.

 

Thank you, Corelyn Senn

catspjs@tidewater.net

 

i stand firm on the saying not to push your religious beliefs upon others.... i agree with you, i have found a few myself. i have no problem with church or anything like that, but as i said....

Posted

For the record, I am a Christian. However I don't leave caches in tracts (a bit off subject, but I do leave cross necklaces and pins--would those be offensive?). I agree, there are better ways to evangelize.

 

However, I don't see how tracts are "invasive and obtrusive", with the rare exception when a cache has been packed full of them. With all due respect, if you are offended by a piece of paper that says something like 'accept Jesus or burn', maybe you have the problem. If you don't believe, it's just words. If you do believe, then you're not going to 'burn'.

 

I understand offense at remarks denigrating women, homosexuals, African-Americans etc., but to my knowledge, these tracts belittle no-one. Besides, banning tracts would be a step in the wrong direction. The Nazis started out banning a few offensive titles too.<--not calling anyone a Nazi, just making a point

 

tink, tink

Posted
If you don't believe, it's just words. If you do believe, then you're not going to 'burn'.

So, if you don't believe, it's a waste; if you do believe, it's a waste.

 

Doesn't waste make Jesus sad? Or is that Gaia? And "burn in hell for all eternity"?

Posted (edited)

Ah ... we're back to the politically correct caching discussion again I see.

 

I agree with the others here that basically said it's a non-issue. It's a poor way to evangelize and a largely ineffective one, but there's really no harm in it unless the literature is of a "fringe" nature personally attacking an individual or a lifestyle (some material is of this nature an inappropriate, but materials that simply say "God loves you" or which pass along a spiritual message are really a non-issue in my book).

 

We all know how hard it is to define "fringe", but we all pretty much know when we see it. No need to debate this point as there is no black and white definition and it does vary quite a bit from person to person. This is why the court system is so run amok with politically correct activists that seem bent on preventing the mention of religion anywhere in public life. Our founding fathers in the U.S., a group of individuals very well grounded in their faith, promised us freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM it. Practice yours as you see fit and let others practice theirs ... I see nothing in the placing of tracts in a cache the preventing anyone from doing so. I don't personally see the benefit nor do I do it myself, but it's certainly not of a concern to me.

 

Bottom line, one should be comfortable enough with their own faith (or lack of one) to let others express theirs as long as such actions don't prohibit your own personal freedoms. If they're not, perhaps it's time for a little soul searching.

 

Feel free to look past the material that doesn't interest you and trade for something which does.

Edited by Lasagna
Posted
Bottom line however, one should be comfortable enough with their own faith (or lack of one) to let others express theirs. If they're not, perhaps it's time for a little soul searching.

Or the corollary: One should be comfortable enough with their own faith (or lack of one) to shut the freak up about it in mixed company. If they're not...etcetera.

Posted
If you don't believe, it's just words. If you do believe, then you're not going to 'burn'.

So, if you don't believe, it's a waste; if you do believe, it's a waste.

 

Doesn't waste make Jesus sad? Or is that Gaia? And "burn in hell for all eternity"?

No, I think that's the Indian from those old commercials (you dated yourself(oops, I dated myself, too)). But OP didn't say 'waste', 'offend' was the word.

Posted
Bottom line however, one should be comfortable enough with their own faith (or lack of one) to let others express theirs. If they're not, perhaps it's time for a little soul searching.

Or the corollary: One should be comfortable enough with their own faith (or lack of one) to shut the freak up about it in mixed company. If they're not...etcetera.

 

Like I said, it's not a very effective way to go about it ... it's kinda like that guy on the street corner who's hollering about the world coming to an end or that group that goes around protesting at military funerals ... gotta wonder how many converts they really made. I'm kinda thinking it's in the "less than 1" range.

 

Personally I have more problems with all the golf balls that seem to end up in caches. Now those ought to be outlawed!

Posted
Bottom line however, one should be comfortable enough with their own faith (or lack of one) to let others express theirs. If they're not, perhaps it's time for a little soul searching.

Or the corollary: One should be comfortable enough with their own faith (or lack of one) to shut the freak up about it in mixed company. If they're not...etcetera.

If you don't like 'm, don't take 'em. For probably the only time I can remember, I completely disagree with Auntie Weasel. :)

 

Stuffing a cache with paper, of any kind, is a problem, but one or two little booklets, left by a FINDER and not teh hider? Relax, it's a diverse world.

 

If teh cache hider left them, that is a bit of a different story - in that case it would violate the guidelines.

Posted
Bottom line however, one should be comfortable enough with their own faith (or lack of one) to let others express theirs. If they're not, perhaps it's time for a little soul searching.

Or the corollary: One should be comfortable enough with their own faith (or lack of one) to shut the freak up about it in mixed company. If they're not...etcetera.

If you don't like 'm, don't take 'em. For probably the only time I can remember, I completely disagree with Auntie Weasel. :)

 

Stuffing a cache with paper, of any kind, is a problem, but one or two little booklets, left by a FINDER and not teh hider? Relax, it's a diverse world.

 

If teh cache hider left them, that is a bit of a different story - in that case it would violate the guidelines.

 

Ah ... good point there. Applies only to the finder. Creating a cache whose purpose is to distribute those would be in the same category as a "commercial" cache promoting something and thus not appropriate according to the guidelines.

Posted
No, I think that's the Indian from those old commercials (you dated yourself(oops, I dated myself, too)). But OP didn't say 'waste', 'offend' was the word.

And, as it turns out, the actor was a secret Italian.

 

If it were me, I'd be more offended by an ill-mannered nutjob discrediting my religion than an ill-mannered nutjob discrediting someone else's, but you'll have to make that decision for yourself.

Posted
If you don't like 'm, don't take 'em. For probably the only time I can remember, I completely disagree with Auntie Weasel. :)

More completely than you know, then. If you believe they shouldn't be there, I think you should trade them out.

 

I'm so glad 2004 is over. I got really sick of trading for election material. I snagged stuff from both parties. I'm a political partisan, but I didn't think geocaching was the right venue for political agitation. It annoyed me to have to expunge the stuff I agreed with as enthusiastically as the stuff I didn't.

 

This is a nice little hobby. I don't think we should gunk it up with religion or politics. Save that for the drunken family brawl at Thanksgiving, okay?

Posted (edited)
If you don't like 'm, don't take 'em. For probably the only time I can remember, I completely disagree with Auntie Weasel. :)

More completely than you know, then. If you believe they shouldn't be there, I think you should trade them out.

 

I'm so glad 2004 is over. I got really sick of trading for election material. I snagged stuff from both parties. I'm a political partisan, but I didn't think geocaching was the right venue for political agitation. It annoyed me to have to expunge the stuff I agreed with as enthusiastically as the stuff I didn't.

 

This is a nice little hobby. I don't think we should gunk it up with religion or politics. Save that for the drunken family brawl at Thanksgiving, okay?

Well, TRADING out is something altogether different. I remember threads where people said they just took them flat out, no trading. If you 'bought' whatever it is you didn't like via a trade, then teh item is yours to do with what you will. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with people just taking them, like they are the high and mighty arbiter of political correctness. Perhaps we don't disagree as much as I initially thought.

 

TRADE=good

SWIPE=not good

 

P.S. I leave nothing political or religious - I don't think it is an effective means of communicating ideas. I just don't begrudge other seekers doing so.

Edited by New England n00b
Posted
No, I think that's the Indian from those old commercials (you dated yourself(oops, I dated myself, too)). But OP didn't say 'waste', 'offend' was the word.

And, as it turns out, the actor was a secret Italian.

 

If it were me, I'd be more offended by an ill-mannered nutjob discrediting my religion than an ill-mannered nutjob discrediting someone else's, but you'll have to make that decision for yourself.

You're right, what you said probably should offend me, but as a lifelong heathen (<--just a joke-poking fun at myself) and a rather recent convert, I think I can understand your point of view, without taking offense.

Posted (edited)

I too am a Christian and I frequently come across political propaganda, ie: I hate Bush, stupid little darwin fish, etc. What I do is remove the material from the cache and throw it in my burn pile. If you have a problem with it, trade it out and burn it. I am not your judge. Ultimately, you will be held responsible for the actions you take in life, so make sure you are making the correct choices.

 

Since YOU brought it up.

 

PRAISE GOD! PRAISE JESUS! ALL WE DO WE DO FOR YOU!

Edited by ReadyOrNot
Posted

I am concerned and not happy because in Mid-Coast Maine this spring there is a great deal of Christian literature and tracts being left in the geocaches. I find this disturbing because I do not think the caches should be used to promote religious, political, or social views. This literature has an evangelizing feel to it that I do not think is appropriate and can even be offensive.

 

I hope the people who are doing this will rethink their actions and will return the caches to their former unobtrusive, non-invasive state.

 

Thank you, Corelyn Senn

catspjs@tidewater.net

Seeing how it's well known that religious tracts often divide people, I see no reason why they should be placed in caches. Personally, I'm not offended by the tracts themselves, since they can be easily be ignored. I'll likely be offended by the person who placed them, since odds are that he or she lacks common sense or courtesy by placing them in the first place.

Posted

Can I leave satanic propaganda? :)

Well, I haven't seen that stuff in a cache. I have seen healing crystals, ankhs, GLAAD pins, political propaganda , das kapital and lots of other stuff advocating agendas/points of view. None of these offended me, although I disagreed with many of the ideas expressed/represented.

 

Are tracts (regardless of viewpoint expressed) good swag? I say no, but the ones I've seen don't offend me. If I found one of your satanic tracts in a cache, I'd trade a cross for it, say a prayer for you, and trash it at first opportunity. I wouldn't try to prohibit you from leaving them.

Posted

I am concerned and not happy because in Mid-Coast Maine this spring there is a great deal of Christian literature and tracts being left in the geocaches. I find this disturbing because I do not think the caches should be used to promote religious, political, or social views. This literature has an evangelizing feel to it that I do not think is appropriate and can even be offensive.

 

I hope the people who are doing this will rethink their actions and will return the caches to their former unobtrusive, non-invasive state.

 

Thank you, Corelyn Senn

catspjs@tidewater.net

 

It's a diverse world. You advocating for the lack of religion or political tracts in caches is also an agenda. You have the freedom to promote that and others have the freedom to leave tracts as their sig item.

 

You have no right though to actually expect compliance because it's a diverse world.

Posted

Dude, I hear ya. The things people push on you at the cache sites!

 

I am easily offended by the cute little stuffed animals. Hey man, if they want to push those things on me, it's there world!. Those things are scary. I have nightmares. They might as well left a bottle of Jack D.

 

I wish the people that put those Matchbox cars in caches would stop that too. I mean I'm a Ford guy and the GM cars really go against my beliefs!

 

And if I see another lanyard from a school I didn't go to, I think I might just go postal! Don't make me go all Tyrell Sprewell on them!

 

Oh, and those lame pencils! For the love of ink man! Pens were invented a long time ago and I personally switched to them when Da Vinci started that whole "code" thingy.

 

And If I see one more log book!!!!!!! I mean this is the meaning of "The Man"!!!! What next? Video surveillance around a cache? Maybe fingerprint sensors? Retinal Scans? All his just to make sure we were there at the cache. Is our "word" not good enough? Geez, I could have around 14,000 caches by now if I did not have to sign those lame log books with a pencil, and all those lanyards and critters getting in my way. Oh, and that whole "put the cache back where you found it" is a waste of time. I usually leave it laying out. I do not like being told what to do.

 

Another thing! Who thinks they can use US Army Ammo cans? I am against violence. These ammo cans contained munitions that killed people!

 

What is this world coming too. Take God out of the schools, out of the Pledge of Allegiance, and out of society. Hears a catch 22: I bet no one ever complains about taking the word God off our money.....

Posted (edited)

My only problem is the tracts. I love finding the cross necklaces, Jesus fish and the such. But, if you leave a tracts then it is pushing a religion. Not all are the same, by a LONG shot. I have NO problem with Christians, I am one, but I hate when someone tries to push their beliefs on me. I don't let the Mormons on my porch anymore, Nor do I let Jehovah whiteness in my drive anymore. I don't mean any harm or anything to those of you who may be one or the other. I'm not trying to flame or get flamed.

I guess what I’m saying is the tracts are what bothers me

Edited by wandat24
Posted

I read this post and thought why should I reply, I'll just leave it alone. But then I had a thought that I would rather have a kid find a religous tract instead of pornography. Thats the way I see it because I am sure something worse could be left in a cache. Am I wrong?

Posted
I read this post and thought why should I reply, I'll just leave it alone. But then I had a thought that I would rather have a kid find a religous tract instead of pornography. Thats the way I see it because I am sure something worse could be left in a cache. Am I wrong?

I would agree with ya there!!!!

Posted

I read this post and thought why should I reply, I'll just leave it alone. But then I had a thought that I would rather have a kid find a religous tract instead of pornography. Thats the way I see it because I am sure something worse could be left in a cache. Am I wrong?

 

You are 100% right! Although, you'd be surprised, some people would probably feel more comfortable finding pornography than something telling them that God loves them. Go figure?

Posted
You are 100% right! Although, you'd be surprised, some people would probably feel more comfortable finding pornography than something telling them that God loves them. Go figure?

 

Perhaps because they've actually experienced the first thing, and found it pretty enjoyable, but the existence of the other is purely hypothetical, and not particularly convincing from personal experience.

 

Oh, well. Religious tracts: just more spam trying to sell people stuff they don't want to buy.

Posted (edited)

Can I leave satanic propaganda? :ph34r:

 

True Satanists wouldn't leave propaganda in a cache. I quote some the 11 satanic rules of the earth

 

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked

 

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy

 

6. Do not steal (paraphrased)

7 is not relevant.

 

9. Do not harm little children

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him

 

Although no 1 is the only relevant one, I have always wondered about no 7 and the others are just cool.

 

I read this post and thought why should I reply, I'll just leave it alone. But then I had a thought that I would rather have a kid find a religous tract instead of pornography. Thats the way I see it because I am sure something worse could be left in a cache. Am I wrong?

 

Pornography doesn't offend everybody just as christian tracts don't offend everybody. Not everyone has or goes caching with children so does that make leaving pornographic material in caches o.k.

 

Tracts do not offend me at all except if there is a cache full of them as my swaps are usually around the $5-$10 mark and I feel ripped off swapping a really nice keyring or such for a piece of scrap paper.

 

By the way I was a happy clappy born again christian for many many years but gave it up and studied satanism for a while but gave that up for tttedzeinsism.

 

edit:my spelling sux

Edited by tttedzeins
Posted

Since we were unable to dispatch the Groundspeak Thought Police within our usual 30 minute guarantee, I am moving this to the Geocaching Topics forum where the Thought Militia can take over.

Posted

I kinda chuckle at these things but the cacher who state they'd rather have kids find something like this than porn hit the nail on the head.

 

It is a poor way to evangelize but I can't see how it's going to hurt anybody. Sometimes we as a nation are too thin skinned. I hope a christian track is the worst thing I ever find in a cache.

Posted

I'm not very religious, but do enjoy finding the occasional religious tract in a cache. Then I trade for them and leave one of the NC Sweet Potato tracts I usually carry on me. It's the official State Vegetable, and very nutritious. The tracts are filled with yummy recipes and nutritional info. Then I can do as I please with the religious tracts. :ph34r:

 

Depending on the flavor-I would probably prefer to find porno in a cache though-for the reasons AW pointed out a few posts back. :wub:

Posted (edited)

Before you can convince me that I need to be saved in the first place, you need to convince me that I am a bad person. I don't believe I'm a bad person. And I'm offended by those tracts, because they are DIRECTLY telling me that I am a bad person. Why else would I need to be saved?

 

SOME christians go around telling us we're evil, we have "sinned" and not only will we burn in hell for eternity, but we fully deserve it because we are such bad creatures... And then they get offended if I disagree?

 

Don't they ever get sick of running around being offended all the time? When is it my turn?

Edited by headybrew
Posted

Oh goody, this conversation again.

 

Here's what you do.

 

Trade even, Trade up, or don't trade at all

 

If I find food, porn, fireworks or religious tracts in a cache, I'll trash it out. It's not a trade item. It's trash.

Posted

And here I thought that we were talking about geocaching.... :ph34r::wub:

 

I noticed that too.

 

So to keep the spirit of geocaching alive....

 

Trade even, Trade up, or don't trade at all.

Posted

And here I thought that we were talking about geocaching.... :ph34r::wub:

 

I noticed that too.

 

So to keep the spirit of geocaching alive....

 

Trade even, Trade up, or don't trade at all.

 

What I said is directly relevant to the topic. It's in support of my argument for trashing out those items. You're getting a bit repetitive Mr. Deuce.

Posted (edited)

YOU may be offended to find a Bible in a cache and you may think it promotes religion.

 

The next GUY may be offended at a McDonalds toy as he may think it promotes McDonalds.

 

PERSONALLY, I am offended when people put things in there marked www.geocaching.com.

I mean, all they are doing is trying to advertlize that Jeremy guy's web site.

 

 

:ph34r::wub::wub::wub::wub:;)B)

Edited by wesleykey
Posted (edited)

And here I thought that we were talking about geocaching.... :ph34r::wub:

 

I noticed that too.

 

So to keep the spirit of geocaching alive....

 

Trade even, Trade up, or don't trade at all

 

 

What I said is directly relevant to the topic. It's in support of my argument for trashing out those items. You're getting a bit repetitive Mr. Deuce.

 

No, what it means is that you need to worry less about getting your personal and off-topic viewpoint made in this forum and address the topic, which by the way has been discussed more times than I can count.

 

Let me catch you up.

 

Trade even, Trade up, or don't trade at all.

 

 

edit: removed an 's

Edited by BlueDeuce
Posted

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him

 

I like that one! :ph34r:

Posted

What I said is directly relevant to the topic. It's in support of my argument for trashing out those items. You're getting a bit repetitive Mr. Deuce.

 

No, what it means is that you need to worry less about getting your personal and off-topic viewpoint made in this forum and address the topic, which by the way has been discussed more times than I can count.

 

Let me catch you up.

 

Trade even, Trade up, or don't trade at all.

 

What I said IS on topic. Nothing personal intended, but I think it's quite in-disputable that you are being repetitive.

 

I have stated a valid reason for trashing that stuff out. I invite you to do the same, rather than repeating an unsupported statement.

 

I'll be the repetitive one if you want. This stuff is offensive. Tracts are a direct statement that I am not only going to burn in hell, but that I am worthy of such fate due to my vileness. It's not at all unreasonable to feel offended by that. My argument is that this stuff is trash, not a trade item. I consider "nothing" to be an even trade for trash.

 

PS: It doesn't matter how often it's been discussed before. The OP asked about it. It hasn't been discussed by me, and I have a right to express my on-topic and non-personal views.

Posted

Oh goody, this conversation again.

 

Here's what you do.

 

Trade even, Trade up, or don't trade at all

 

If I find food, porn, fireworks or religious tracts in a cache, I'll trash it out. It's not a trade item. It's trash.

There's a huge difference between the first two and the last two. Food can attract animals that destroy caches. Fireworks are illegal in most places. Porn is generally accepted to be ADULT subject matter - it's legal, but due to teh potential exposure to children not mature enough to handle or understand it can be problematic for parents and teh kid. The last thing, tracts? Not appropriate for caches, IMHO, but unless you are mentally a child yourself, it isn't going to cause any damage, physically or mentally.

 

Trade up, trade even, or don't trade at all.

Posted

This stuff is offensive. Tracts are a direct statement that I am not only going to burn in hell, but that I am worthy of such fate due to my vileness. It's not at all unreasonable to feel offended by that. My argument is that this stuff is trash, not a trade item. I consider "nothing" to be an even trade for trash.

 

Discussing in-depth your personal viewpoint of tract topic, is not a discussion about what to do about it.

 

If you don't like it, remove it. If you think it is worthless, trade nothing and you have traded even.

 

K?

 

Trade even, Trade up, or don't trade at all.

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