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Insanity!

Keef_bushman
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alistair_uk

alistair_uk

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi Keef, welcome to the forums. :ph34r:

 

I must confess that I don’t quite get where you are coming from. All Geocaches do not need to be family friendly and if someone placed a cache on top of a mountain that required specialist skills and equipment then that is cool, isn’t it.

 

Could you clarify your point for me, what exactly is wrong with the cache?

Edited by alistair_uk
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Keef_bushman

Keef_bushman

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Not quite sure what you're getting at when you say "Who is behind this post", all my details are in my profile, I am a genuine, real person.

 

Winnats Head cave (for those of you who are not familiar with it) is a nasty piece of work, and should NOT be attempted without experiance. If someone were to miss the cache and venture further into the cave, they put not only themselves, but members of the rescue team in great danger, as the further reaches of the cave are very unstable and are becoming more so.

 

I hope this explains my very genuine concerns.

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perth pathfinders

+perth pathfinders

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi Keef, welcome to the forums. :ph34r:

 

I must confess that I don’t quite get where you are coming from. All Geocaches do not need to be family friendly and if someone placed a cache on top of a mountain that required specialist skills and equipment then that is cool, isn’t it.

 

Could you clarify your point for me, what exactly is wrong with the cache?

 

The cache has a 5/5 rating.

The attributes fit its nature.

The photographs clearly show what is involved.

Permission has been received from the landowner.

The page explains it is for experienced cavers only.

It states not for the claustrophobic.

It is for the very agile (and probably very thin)

Fee of 50p has been notified.

Tells you not to tackle alone.

 

 

No I think this cache is fine, and all details are covered. It may not be family friendly, but then not all Geocachers are a family, they are often lone-cachers like myself.

 

Please lets not use this as an excuse to start yet more arguments on these forums, haven't we had enough?

 

(Good Advertising for the cache owner though!!)

 

Castleton is a lovely area of Derbyshire, and there are over 100 caches within a 10mile radius of this cache, so not a problem to put on your Ignore list if its not for you?

 

GC.com would not have a 5/5 rating if they did not expect it to be used now and then.

 

Good luck those Cavers and Potholers amongst us who are able to attempt this one.

 

JUST TAKE CARE!

Edited by perth pathfinders
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mongoose39uk

+mongoose39uk

Posted
Posted

Hi Keef, welcome to the forums. :ph34r:

 

I must confess that I don’t quite get where you are coming from. All Geocaches do not need to be family friendly and if someone placed a cache on top of a mountain that required specialist skills and equipment then that is cool, isn’t it.

 

Could you clarify your point for me, what exactly is wrong with the cache?

 

The cache has a 5/5 rating.

The attributes fit its nature.

The photographs clearly show what is involved.

Permission has been received from the landowner.

The page explains it is for experienced cavers only.

It states not for the claustrophobic.

It is for the very agile (and probably very thin)

Fee of 50p has been notified.

Tells you not to tackle alone.

 

 

No I think this cache is fine, and all details are covered. It may not be family friendly, but then not all Geocachers are a family, they are often lone-cachers like myself.

 

Please lets not use this as an excuse to start yet more arguments on these forums, haven't we had enough?

 

(Good Advertising for the cache owner though!!)

 

Castleton is a lovely area of Derbyshire, and there are over 100 caches within a 10mile radius of this cache, so not a problem to put on your Ignore list if its not for you?

 

GC.com would not have a 5/5 rating if they did not expect it to be used now and then.

 

Good luck those Cavers and Potholers amongst us who are able to attempt this one.

 

JUST TAKE CARE!

 

Looks like all the bases are covered

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Haggis Hunter

+Haggis Hunter

Posted
Posted

Not quite sure what you're getting at when you say "Who is behind this post", all my details are in my profile, I am a genuine, real person.

 

Winnats Head cave (for those of you who are not familiar with it) is a nasty piece of work, and should NOT be attempted without experiance. If someone were to miss the cache and venture further into the cave, they put not only themselves, but members of the rescue team in great danger, as the further reaches of the cave are very unstable and are becoming more so.

 

I hope this explains my very genuine concerns.

I think you should take a read of these following threads and you will realise our concerns - thread 1, thread 2, thread 3, thread 4.

 

Your post may be 100% genuine, but given the fact that you are new and have never found a cache it does have the hallmarks of a troll. I would hope that once you see it has been discussed at lenght already you will close this thread and send Lactodorum an email with your concerns.

 

For the record I think the cache looks great and wish it was closer to me so that I could attempt it.

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Keef_bushman

Keef_bushman

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I only found out about this cache this morning when I got my cache update email, I didn't know this cache had been discussed before and am not "working in conjunction" with anyone.

All I will say, and I'll leave it at this, is....

If you had ever been down said cave you would know what I mean.

Thanks

Sorry if I upset anyone or broke any rules, yes, I am new to this.

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Haggis Hunter

+Haggis Hunter

Posted
Posted

Winnats Head cave (for those of you who are not familiar with it) is a nasty piece of work, and should NOT be attempted without experiance. If someone were to miss the cache and venture further into the cave, they put not only themselves, but members of the rescue team in great danger, as the further reaches of the cave are very unstable and are becoming more so.

All I will say, and I'll leave it at this, is....

If you had ever been down said cave you would know what I mean.

Thanks

I can understand that you have your concerns, but the cache owner has done his work, as these comments point to -

 

Im curently in comunication with a member of the local cave rescue and land owners regarding the state of this cave / cache. Its looking at the moment this could be back up again soon. Going to get in touch in the next week with the Winnats Pass farm to see about these access permissions and if its required it will be up in the description.

 

If the LOCAL cave rescue and the landowner are happy with the cache, then I honestly can't see why this is an ongoing subject?

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Keef_bushman

Keef_bushman

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I could be wrong, but the concensus seems to be that if you are "experienced" go for it......

 

OK..... Then why is it that neither of the chaps listed as the cachers list Caving amongst their interests? This would seem to suggest that they don't have experience..... I could be wrong.

 

P.S. Being a climber does not count as caving experience.

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Black Pig & the Piglets

+Black Pig & the Piglets

Posted
Posted

Having just returned from doing said cache in the company of Mrs BP, our 14year old daughter Piglet, MikeG, Poppy Walker & Freakboy. I can confirm that yes the cache is not for the faint hearted, it does meet the attributes & the criteria as listed on the webpage, and above all it is a FANTASTIC CACHE!. There are a couple of tight squeezes & you do need to be pretty flexible & agile. Only the ill prepared or inherently stupid should be in any danger, but I could list many caches even some set by the main protagonist of this weeks trouble, which would also put the same people in danger. The simple answer is that if you don't feel that you are upto or equipped to do this cache, then don't. That is your choice, you make yours & leave others to make theirs.

Whilst doing this cache we also collected a bin liner full of rubbish including cans, broken glass & plastic sheeting. You would think that the caving fraternity would be a little more caring about their precious caves :ph34r: after all we do keep getting reminded ad nauseum that it's an SSSI.

As a SCUBA diver it has always been my intention to set a cache that req'd you to dive to find the cache, If & when I do so, can I expect the usual supects to crawl out from under their armchairs & give me the same amount of grief that Matt & Eckers have had this week? <end rant mode>

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Haggis Hunter

+Haggis Hunter

Posted
Posted

Keef, your initial post was very blunt and to the point! Which was not a very nice way to introduce yourself to the caching community?

All your other posts bring out new points that could have been in the initial post, thus prolonging the debate on the rights and wrongs of this thread.

 

This style of posting resembles two different types of member, the first is a troll which as I am sure you are aware is a member that isn't actually a member and is trying to cause a heated debate, ill feeling or an argument.

The second is Moote, sadly although we know he is not a troll his topics and opinions have the effect of a troll. Moote is also the person that has caused the problems for this cache, reviewers and generated ill feeling over the past few days.

 

I am afraid that I am finding it hard to accept that you aren't either Moote himself or a friend who is airing Moote's thoughts??

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alistair_uk

alistair_uk

Posted
Posted

Not quite sure what you're getting at when you say "Who is behind this post", all my details are in my profile, I am a genuine, real person.

 

Winnats Head cave (for those of you who are not familiar with it) is a nasty piece of work, and should NOT be attempted without experiance. If someone were to miss the cache and venture further into the cave, they put not only themselves, but members of the rescue team in great danger, as the further reaches of the cave are very unstable and are becoming more so.

 

I hope this explains my very genuine concerns.

Keef, We often have people who are disgruntled and have an axe to grind create a fake identity to give the impression that more people are concerned about something than actually are, or to make a point anonymously. As you are someone who have not found a cache and registered recently I am shore you can see who many are sceptical. If you are who you say you are then my welcome is genuine and this will be the case from many cahcers who agree and disagree with you.

 

I can only echo the comments above about the listing covering all bases and although you will not be alone in your thought you may well be surprised than many disagree with you. This listing does make the dangers clear and fully informs the cacher who may decide to search for it. Personally I would only look for it if escorted by someone who did know what he or she was doing.

 

If your concern is that inexperienced cachers will attempt this cache then I put it to you that the listing does make it clear. If you disagree then perhaps you could highlight how you think the wording should be changed to make clear the skill level required to locate it safely, or is your pont that no one should in there right mind go here, or that no Geocacher (regardless of if the are a potholer) should go here?

 

Perhaps you could tell us your connection with Geocaching and why this listing obviously concerns you so.

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Bear and Ragged

+Bear and Ragged

Posted
Posted
OK..... Then why is it that neither of the chaps listed as the cachers list Caving amongst their interests?

 

I/we have many interests, but don't list them on our profile.

 

Re this cache, I read that permission is requred to park and go to the cave, presumably whoever gives permission can say "No" to anyone at anytime, if it is unsafe to enter the cave.

 

The warnings are on the cache page, and the reviewer/approver has said the cache fulfills Geocache.com guidelines.

 

I see no problem with it.

I would attempt a 5/5 cache, but NOT this one!

 

G

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stora

+stora

Posted
Posted

 

---snip---

 

I am afraid that I am finding it hard to accept that you aren't either Moote himself or a friend who is airing Moote's thoughts??

 

My money is on that someone is peeved over the outcome of the last few days on these borads. They are now posting on here in the "style" of Moote's postings and topics, trying to cause yet more trouble.

 

then again it could be me having a grumpy old man moment.

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Keef_bushman

Keef_bushman

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I apologise for the bluntness of my first post, I'm sorry I didn't take more time to include all of my concerns in my first post and I am sorry I couldn't find a better way to express my view.

I appreciate the points raised, and can assure you that this post was not meant to cause the offence that it has, I could have chosen my words better.

I am real!

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Haggis Hunter

+Haggis Hunter

Posted
Posted

I apologise for the bluntness of my first post, I'm sorry I didn't take more time to include all of my concerns in my first post and I am sorry I couldn't find a better way to express my view.

I appreciate the points raised, and can assure you that this post was not meant to cause the offence that it has, I could have chosen my words better.

I am real!

In that case then I think the least we can do is take you for your word, and welcome you to the community. I hope you enjoy it when you find your first cache?

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elderstuart/laine

+elderstuart/laine

Posted
Posted

:ph34r:

I could be wrong, but the concensus seems to be that if you are "experienced" go for it......

 

OK..... Then why is it that neither of the chaps listed as the cachers list Caving amongst their interests? This would seem to suggest that they don't have experience..... I could be wrong.

 

P.S. Being a climber does not count as caving experience.

 

I was one of the FTF at this cache although I do not list caving/potholing as a hobby/passing phase/something I do as a pass time.

I also don't list $ex as a hobby or something I enjoy doing but I can assure you I do and It's always a "5/5"

 

and looking at your profile obviosly a very bored person because you have no hobby's or interests listed, I hope you find geocaching interesting and it leads to you finding and enjoying a life.

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mollyjak

+mollyjak

Posted
Posted

I have no problem with this cache.

 

H***would freeze over before I would ever even consider attempting this cache but then luckily we are all different levels of age, fitness and interests in this hobby of ours.

 

While we enjoy lower levels of terrain other younger and fitter prefer a different challenge and each to their own. :ph34r:

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Rebel Alliance

+Rebel Alliance

Posted
Posted (edited)

I was also in the FTF find group.

The cache is very challenging but as long as common sense is applied it is a great cache.

 

I felt safer doing down under earlier in the week than another cache I have done recently where one slip could have resulted in a serious injury and that slip very nearly happened once or twice.

 

I was there this morning when the second group exited the cave.

Following on from our resident "expert"'s comments earlier in the week regarding the site being an sssi I was amazed that an entire black bin bag of rubbish was removed from said cave. Although not that amazed as we had witnessed the state of the cave earlier.

 

Perhaps it should have been set as a CITO event :ph34r:

 

To reiterate this cache is 5/5, it is difficult and should be approached with respect, planning and preparation. But isn't that the case with all outdoor activities?

Edited by Rebel Alliance
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Son Of Windswept

+Son Of Windswept

Posted
Posted (edited)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this cache, the details are decscribed, the problems noted. You can choose to do it or not. Me - I don't like caving so I would probably give it a miss, unless it was on my nearest unfound list. But there are caches on the top of the Alps, and caches in Afghanistan, so I would take a shot at this before the ones mentioned previously :-)

Edited by Son Of Windswept
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Jango & Boba Fett

+Jango & Boba Fett

Posted
Posted

:o Try this one for size - with apologies to all Mötley Crew fans (that’s with one öö)

 

He's A Teaser

And He Got No Heart At All

He's A Teaser

And He'll Tempt You Till You Fall

Yeah, He'll Tempt You Till You Fall

 

He'll Talk To You In Riddles

That Have No Sense Of Rhyme

And If You Ask Him What He Means

Say He Don't Got No Time

 

He's A Teaser

And He Got No Heart At All

He's A Teaser

And He'll Tempt You Till You Fall

He's A Teaser

And He Got No Heart At All

He's A Teaser

And He'll Tempt You Till You Fall

Yeah, He'll Tempt You Till You Fall (Down a Cave)

 

Wait a minute, have I posted this in the wrong thread? :mad::mad::o

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t.a.folk

+t.a.folk

Posted
Posted

and looking at your profile obviosly a very bored person because you have no hobby's or interests listed, I hope you find geocaching interesting and it leads to you finding and enjoying a life.

[/quote

 

Do you conclude the same of every other person who doesn't their hobbies and interests listed on their profiles ?

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elderstuart/laine

+elderstuart/laine

Posted
Posted

and looking at your profile obviosly a very bored person because you have no hobby's or interests listed, I hope you find geocaching interesting and it leads to you finding and enjoying a life.

[/quote

 

Do you conclude the same of every other person who doesn't their hobbies and interests listed on their profiles ?

 

No of course not!!

 

I was just showing how wrong you could be by assuming that everything put in profiles is true or not, believable or not.

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doctor scotland

+doctor scotland

Posted
Posted

well, real or not so real, cheers keef!

i know castleton well and will hopefully be somewhere nearby in the coming months.

this cache is just the sort of stuff i like, and without your critisism of it, i wouldnt have noticed this one!

many thanks!!!

looking forward to getting dirty in the dark!

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Haggis Hunter

+Haggis Hunter

Posted
Posted

Well I believe we have the considered response to Keef’s concerns, even if that response was not what he wanted. I suggest we than Keef for his concern and put the topic to bed once and for all.

 

Thank you, I agree. :mad:

Bottom left of the thread gives you the option to close the thread, which will certainly put it to bed.

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Keef_bushman

Keef_bushman

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Well I believe we have the considered response to Keef’s concerns, even if that response was not what he wanted. I suggest we than Keef for his concern and put the topic to bed once and for all.

 

Thank you, I agree. :mad:

Bottom left of the thread gives you the option to close the thread, which will certainly put it to bed.

Thank you didn't know I could do that.

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