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Shades Of Gray.


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There have been a couple of threads recently on logging practices. Yes, this is another one. I don't intend for it to be judgemental of any particular practice or even to be a back and forth discussion. Rather I'd just like for others to tell how/if they would log certain caches and in certain conditions. If you'd like to make a comment please limit yourself to your own reasons/perspectives/practices.

 

These are the posts that got me thinking about doing this (Thanks to Markwell and Fizzymagic) :

 

There is nothing I would like more than some sort of reaslistic discussion. You have 22 (I think) attended logs for an event you only attended once.

In lonesumdove's defense, I went and looked at a few of those logs. She actually wrote real logs for each temporary cache, unlike many others who attended the same event and just copied-and-pasted a generic log n times to get all their smileys. So the data supports her position that logging those caches was a part of the fun of the event.

 

And I think it is too bad that there was no legitimate method for getting "credit" for those finds. While I don't think they should be equivalent to cache finds, at the same time they deserve to be logged someplace. So she (and all the other cachers at the event) made the reasonable, if perhaps questionable, decision to log the event multiple times. If I were to place blame anywhere, it would be with the event organizers, who provided a bunch of temporary caches and no way to log them legitimately, leaving the attendees in an awkward position.

 

I don't think this issue is entirely black and white, and I am not particularly interesting in micro-managing how other people live their lives. But the impact of the devaluation of the smiley affects us all, and I think that, as a community, we need to discuss these issues and come to some consensus about what is acceptable and what is not.

 

For example, the community already generally agrees that entirely ficititious logs are not acceptable. We also agree that logging finds on your own caches is bad form.

 

But beyond that, there is a gray area. Next in line comes logging a cache as a find because you couldn't find it but you tried hard. Then comes logging a find on an archived cache on this site because you found a cache listed on another site. Then comes logging a missing cache as a find if you replace the container with a new one. Then comes logging a missing cache as a find if the owner says it is OK. Then comes logging additional finds on a cache if the owner gives you a "bonus" find for something else. Then comes logging pocket caches. Then comes logging multiple finds at an event. Then comes logging multiple finds on a cache that has moved. Finally comes logging a cache found by a group as a find for each member of the group.

 

We started at something clearly unacceptable, and we ended up at something most everyone accepts as permissible. Everybody draws the line someplace in that gray area; I know exactly where I have drawn mine. It's a spot where I can feel comfortable living with myself.

 

It seems to me that the value in this discussion in in clarifying what each spot in that gray area means. For example: I disagree with Criminal that logging multiple finds on an event is lying, but I am sufficiently uncomfortable that I won't do it for myself, and my respect for people who do it is diminished considerably. As another example: I won't log the same cache twice, even if it has moved substantially, but if other people do so it doesn't affect my respect for them.

 

For example, the community already generally agrees that entirely ficititious logs are not acceptable. We also agree that logging finds on your own caches is bad form.

 

But beyond that, there is a gray area. Next in line comes logging a cache as a find because you couldn't find it but you tried hard. Then comes logging a find on an archived cache on this site because you found a cache listed on another site. Then comes logging a missing cache as a find if you replace the container with a new one. Then comes logging a missing cache as a find if the owner says it is OK. Then comes logging additional finds on a cache if the owner gives you a "bonus" find for something else. Then comes logging pocket caches. Then comes logging multiple finds at an event. Then comes logging multiple finds on a cache that has moved. Finally comes logging a cache found by a group as a find for each member of the group.

 

Wow. That was such a cool post, I thought it deserved its own graphic.

2b8e4859-fc41-40a7-a6d1-bfa1c3dca3df.jpg

 

...and my respect for people who do it is diminished considerably.

...but if other people do so it doesn't affect my respect for them.

 

Not to detract from this great post, but my respect for a person, even in the Geocaching world, is not dependent on their find count or the list of caches they've found or not found. When I see a find count, I go, "Hmmm. Isn't that interesting," and then move on. If it's a log on a cache the ONLY bearing the person's find count would mean to me is how reliable their DNF is. If a person has found 5,107 caches and they log a DNF on a cache that is a difficulty 1, I would think that cache is missing. In the forums, a person's find count usually doesn't enter into how I respond. Most of the people I have conversations with, I couldn't tell you their find count.

 

I posted in the other forum, and from the quotes above, some of this might be repeats from this lengthy thread, but I'll say my couple of quips here:

How can you cheat when nobody wins? Did I miss the prize?
...everyone should do what they think is right and STOP worrying about what the other guy is doing.
I would also add that cachers should probably stop worrying about how others feel regarding what they are doing.

 

Wow. That was such a cool post, I thought it deserved its own graphic.

And the more I look at that graphic, the more I think it's hard to define where some of those very middle points fall. Particularly, these items:


  • Logging a missing cache as a find if you replace the container with a new one.
  • Logging a missing cache as a find if the owner says it is OK.
  • Logging additional finds on a cache if the owner gives you a "bonus" find for something else.
  • Logging pocket caches.
  • Logging multiple finds at an event.

I would think that individual people might also put them at different shades of gray. The order above is how Fizzy sees them from worst offensive to least offensive. Me...


  • Logging pocket caches.
  • Logging a missing cache as a find if you replace the container with a new one.
  • Logging a missing cache as a find if the owner says it is OK.
  • Logging multiple finds at an event.
  • Logging additional finds on a cache if the owner gives you a "bonus" find for something else.

So we have the clear black and white, and some very dark grays and very pale grays, and this wide nebulous area of gray in the middle.

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BTW, here’s how I cache:

 

Logging false finds: no.

 

Logging a find because you ‘tried’: no, that’s a DNF.

 

Logging a find on a GC.com cache for a cache you found listed on another site: no, log it there and use another site (such as Keenpeople) to keep a total tally.

 

Logging a find on a missing cache you replaced: no, that’s a DNF at best and possibly an SBA if the situation warrants it.

 

Logging a find on a missing cache, owner says it’s OK: I did it once, it was one of my first 10 finds. I’ve never done it since and won’t do so in the future.

 

Logging a find on a multi cache if you didn’t do all the work (not finding all the stages, someone else did or you just get lucky and find it): Sure, as long as the owner says it’s OK.

 

Logging a find on a mystery/puzzle cache if you didn’t do all the work (not finding all the stages, someone else did the puzzle or you just get lucky and find it): Sure, as long as the owner says it’s OK.

 

Logging additional find for ‘bonus’ given by the owner: no, one cache, one find.

 

Logging additional find because cache was moved or altered: no, one cache, one find.

 

Logging additional finds because cache has more than one stage and owner says it’s OK: no, one cache, one find.

 

Logging pocket caches (not listed anywhere): no, no cache page, nowhere to log it. Use another site (such as Keenpeople) to keep a total tally.

 

Logging pocket caches (a previously listed cache): no.

 

Logging ‘retirement’ cache: no.

 

Logging temporary event caches (either on the event page or another, permanent cache that the owner says you can log them on): no, no cache page, nowhere to log it. Use another site (such as Keenpeople) to keep a total tally.

 

Logging multiple finds on a moving cache: no, one cache, one find.

 

Logging a cache you found with a group: yes.

 

Logging one find for a cache listed on this (or any other) site: yes. I did log an event twice- there were two distinct locations for it, miles apart but from what I was told they were not allowed to list 2 different events for some reason. Don’t know that I’d ever do it again tho.

 

Logging ‘arm chair’ caches: no. I did do one LC (Radio KAOS) that was possibly the prototype tho.

 

Logging locationless caches: yes.

 

Logging virtuals: yes.

 

Logging earthcaches: yes.

 

Logging webcams: yes.

 

Logging events: yes.

 

Logging your own cache (including events): no, you already get credit for the hide.

 

 

Respond to as many or as few as you’d like. If there is a situation I’ve missed, feel free to add it.

 

Once again: please keep replies on topic and only voice your own opinions- don’t comment on anyone elses. If you think this thread is useless, that’s not the topic here, start your own thread.

 

Edited to seperate and clarify the multi/mystery finds.

Edited by Corp Of Discovery
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BTW, here’s how I cache:

 

We'll get 100 different answers from 100 different cachers. I'd like clarification on these issues from TPTB. Although interesting what everyone's different viewpoints are, they won't resolve this issue.

 

EDIT: In a recent thread, an account was suspended for posting FOUND it logs to caches when they didn't really find the cache. If accounts are going to be suspended for fake logs, I think this issue REALLY needs to be clarified by TPTB

Edited by ReadyOrNot
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I'll keep it short.

 

I log all real caches only once and if it is supposed to have a logbook I won't claim a find unless I sign it. I'm very strict about that.

 

The closest I come to "feel-good" logging is when my caching partner finds it before I do. Then my excuse it that it simply makes it a .5 star cache.

 

My opinion is that caches should be like Tb logging. You find them once, you get credit. Find it again, your stats stays the same.

 

 

edit: grammer

Edited by BlueDeuce
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Here's mine, and my opinions about various things. My opinions only.

Color code:

  • Red = Cheating
  • Orange = Questionable
  • Blue = OK, but I don't
  • Green = OK for me.

OK, on to the list:

  • Fake Finds: No.
  • Own Caches: No.
  • Tried Hard: No.
  • Another Site: No.
  • Missing/Replaced: No.
  • Missing/Owner Permission: No. And I have turned down several offers.
  • Mystery w/o Solving: Maybe. I don't think this has come up for me.
  • Bonus Finds: No.
  • Moved Cache: No.
  • Pocket Caches: No.
  • Retirement Cache: No.
  • Multiple Event Finds: No.
  • Group Finds: Yes.
  • With Hider When Hidden: No. Exception: if the only real challenge to the cache is a hike, and I go back to the spot later on a separate hike, I may log the find on that second trip.
  • Armchair Caches: No.
  • Locationless: No. I just chose not to count these for myself.
  • Events: No. With one exception: Clayjar's Alaska Quest.
  • Virtuals: Yes.
  • Webcams: Yes.
  • Earthcaches: Yes.

Edited by fizzymagic
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BTW, here’s how I cache:

 

We'll get 100 different answers from 100 different cachers. I'd like clarification on these issues from TPTB. Although interesting what everyone's different viewpoints are, they won't resolve this issue.

 

EDIT: In a recent thread, an account was suspended for posting FOUND it logs to caches when they didn't really find the cache. If accounts are going to be suspended for fake logs, I think this issue REALLY needs to be clarified by TPTB

 

I understand and sympathize with you wanting to get things clarified by TPTB. I know we will get a lot of different replies on this subject and they will all be different. That is the point of this thread- to just see how others do things, not to pass any judgement. I figure maybe if we see how and why others do things it may lead to a better understanding of those who do it differently. It is not about resolving any issue.

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For me:

 

* Fake Finds: No.

* Own Caches: No.

* Tried Hard: No.

* Another Site: No.

* Missing/Replaced: No.

* Missing/Owner Permission: No. And I have turned down several offers.

* Mystery w/o Solving: No.

* Bonus Finds: No.

* Moved Cache: No.

* Pocket Caches: No.

* Retirement Cache: No.

* Multiple Event Finds: No.

* Group Finds: Depends on the circumstances (see below).

* Armchair Caches: No.

* Locationless: Yes.

* Events: Yes.

* Virtuals: Yes.

* Webcams: I would but haven't.

* Earthcaches: I would but haven't.

 

And to add one more:

 

* With another cacher when he hid it: No.

 

Regarding group finds, if the cache has some feature that makes it out of the ordinary (e.g. a puzzle, it's on the side of a cliff, up a tree, on bridge supports, etc...) and I didn't solve the puzzle or perform the physical task to retreive it, I won't log it. If I'm with a large group and never saw the cache or hiding place and just get a logbook passed from the crowd, I won't log it.

 

If I'm with a small group, I will log it whether or not I'm the one who actually uncovered it because I feel I was part of the team and it was a team effort (Though with small groups most of the time we will let each individual find it). If I'm with a large group and I uncover the cache, or if I'm part of a smaller sub-group (maybe 2-5 people) that breaks off from the crowd and finds it, then I will log it.

Edited by briansnat
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I copied the list of types from the original poster.

 

Logging a false finds: no.

 

Logging a find because you ‘tried’: No though it sure would make my stats look better.

 

Logging a find on a GC.com cache for a cache you found listed on another site: no way.

 

Logging a find on a missing cache you replaced: no. Never actuallyt replace a cache. Have notified ownere that I thought it was missing

 

Logging a find on a missing cache, owner says it’s OK: No. Never had an owner say that was ok anyway.

 

Logging a find on a multi/mystery if you didn’t do all the work (someone else did or you just get lucky and find it): Once because I found the final stage while looking for an intermediate stage accidentally.

 

Logging additional find for ‘bonus’ given by the owner: no, one cache, one find.

 

Logging additional find because cache was moved or altered: no, but I did give permission for others to do so on one of my caches after I moved and rehid it basically making it a new cache with the same name.

 

Logging additional finds because cache has more than one stage and owner says it’s OK: no

 

Logging pocket caches (not listed anywhere): no I didn''t even know they existed till I read the related thread.

 

Logging pocket caches (a previously listed cache): no.

 

Logging ‘retirement’ cache: no. Not sure what that really is.

 

Logging temporary event caches (either on the event page or another, permanent cache that the owner says you can log them on): no,

 

Logging multiple finds on a moving cache: no.

 

Logging a cache you found with a group: yes.

 

Logging one find for a cache listed on this (or any other) site: yes.

 

Logging ‘arm chair’ caches: no.

 

Logging locationless caches: No.

 

Logging virtuals: yes.

 

Logging earthcaches: No, but would if I encountered on.

 

Logging webcams: No to much trouble.

 

Logging events: yes.

 

Logging your own cache (including events): no.

 

:o

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I'll copy briansnats format and insert my own stuff, (is that like logging a cache you didn't find...oh well..)

 

Fake Finds: No.

Own Caches: No.

Tried Hard: No.

Another Site: No.

Missing/Replaced: No.

Missing/Owner Permission: Twice, but I was still a Noobie and I've turned down offers since.

Mystery w/o Solving: No.

Bonus Finds: No.

Moved Cache: No.

Pocket Caches: No.

Retirement Cache: No.

Multiple Event Finds: No.

Group Finds: Only if I signed the logbook, I consider the find a group effort and I do my fair share in the search.

Armchair Caches: No.

Locationless: They were de-activated before I found any. (Waymarking suits me fine for that kind of stuff anyway.)

Events: Yes.

Virtuals: Yes.

Webcams: Yes, but haven't been to one yet.

Earthcaches: Yes

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will someone please describe a "pocket cache" to me?

 

AFAIK:

 

A pocket cache is just that- a cache carried in your pocket for others to log. Not usually listed. If it was a cache that WAS listed, then it is more like a retirement cache.

 

A retirement cache is a previously listed and now archived cache (or just the logbook from one ) brought to an event for others to log.

 

An arm chair cache is a cache that you can do from your home while sitting in your arm chair- there is no need to physically go anyplace.

 

Edit: added arm chair cache.

Edited by Corp Of Discovery
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K, "on topic":

 

Fake Finds: No.

Own Caches: No.

Tried Hard: No.

Another Site: No.

Missing/Replaced: No.

Missing/Owner Permission: No.

Mystery w/o Solving: No.

Bonus Finds: No.

Moved Cache: No.

Pocket Caches: No.

Retirement Cache: No.

Multiple Event Finds: No.

Group Finds: Yes, if I help in the hunt and sign the cache it's a find.

Armchair Caches: No.

Locationless: No.

Events: Yes.

Virtuals: Yes.

Webcams: No.

Earthcaches: No.

 

Now, wasn't that fun?

 

EDIT:

 

So-called 'CO-FTF': NO WAY. Don't need to fool myself into feeling better about being second finder.

 

Log online: NO.

Edited by TEAM 360
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An arm chair cache is a cache that you can do from your home while sitting in your arm chair- there is no need to physically go anyplace.

 

There are only a few true armchair caches. TPTB put the kibosh on them pretty quicky. Armchair caches also include virtuals where someone through the magic of Google can figure out the verification info and log a find without ever visiting the site. Its considered by many to be a dishonest practice, or at best cheesy, but its a popular way for some numbers hounds to get their finds when they can't get out.

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there are actual ligitimate armchair caches? or are you just saying there are some viturals that can be googled?

 

If there are some legitimate ones, would you mind sharing one so i could at least check it out?

 

I've seen a few. They involved solving a puzzle or riddle and logging the find. They were meant to be armchair caches. I don't remember their names though.

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I cache the way I want. When I cache by myself I'm generally a puritan when it comes to logging. The main exception is when I've found the remains of a cache scattered around. I'll try to do repairs and replace everything, but if I can't I 'll trash out what was left and post a needs maintenance along with my find. When I go out with others I'll generally follow what the group is doing - but I've been know to log a DNF when everyone else claimed a find on the replacement cache. In any case, I keep a Truth In Numbers section in my profile so you can adjust my numbers if it's important to you.

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The way I feel about it, at least right now:

* Fake Finds: No.

* Own Caches: No.

* Tried Hard: No.

* Another Site: No.

* Missing/Replaced: No.

* Missing/Owner Permission: Came up twice. Once, yes. Once, no.

* Mystery w/o Solving: If I'm with a group, yes. Otherwise I probably wouldn't even try.

* Bonus Finds: Yes. But at this point I haven't had to opportunity.

* Moved Cache: Depends on how far it was moved.

* Pocket Caches: No.

* Retirement Cache: No.

* Multiple Event Finds: Yes. But I should mention that I rarely look for the temporary caches at an event.

* Group Finds: Yes.

* Armchair Caches: No.

* Locationless: Yes.

* Events: Yes.

* Virtuals: Yes.

* Webcams: Yes.

* Earthcaches: Yes.

* With another cacher when he hid it: I can't see myself being in that situation.

 

And another one that kind of bothers me:

* Logging a TB or coin just because I saw it: No.

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I've evolved a bit from the dark side. But I'm still firmly in the gray.

 

In the past I've logged the fragment of a cache that I returned to the owner. No log, just the container remnant. I'd do it again.

 

On the other hand recently I was given permission to log a cache I would have found had it been there based on the description I gave the owner. They could tell with 100% certaintly the cache was now missing and I found the nothing there. In the past I would have logged it, now...I don't.

 

If I co-hide a cache, in the past I've logged them all as a find rather than be co-listed. Now it's sixes. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't until and if I ever come back. It depends. The Ignore list serves the same purpose now. I didn't evolve, the tools got better to accomplish the task I wanted done.

 

I didn't log that online virtual cache though I virtually found it. It just didn't feel right. This must be one of the armchiar caches. I've never been interested in logging the radio station cache though I like the concept as a unique (and single) cache.

 

Other situations.

 

Find the last stage of a multi without the first stages, Heck yes. But on one the owner said "no" so I didn't.

 

Pocket cache. Sorry but the entire concept is more alien to caching in my view than locationless. I'd not log them and even if I did log it at the event I'd not log it online.

 

Moved cache. Yes. Once in the original spot, once in the new spot. The owner posted you could log it in it's new spot if you had found it in it's old spot. The new spot took an hour to find. So did the old spot for that matter.

 

Logged a couple of locationless, lost interest except in a few that I truly enjoyed the challenge of. Someone else logged those first. Grrr.

 

Earthcache. A virtual by another name and less interesting. I even like geology but would rather they stayed what they were. No seeking so no log.

 

Events. Once for attending.

 

Event caches. Only if listed later as a separate cache.

 

More than one find on a multi, No.

 

Another sites caches. Heck yeah, but on that site. This is this site.

 

Group finds. Of course. Groups finds is about all I do. Three muskateers style. All for one and one for all.

 

Lastly if I find 4 logs from 4 caches at one cache site but not the log that should have been there, I'm logging the cache that I'm supposed to be standing at and not any of the others. It seems the best solution to the problem. Besices you don't alway know which of the other logs go to what other cache.

 

Gray is my color, moving towards white ever so slowly that I'm in no danger of ever arriving.

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Fake Finds: No.

Own Caches: No. - (Exception - caches I adopted after logging them under other owner)

Tried Hard: No.

Another Site: No.

Missing/Replaced: No.

Missing/Owner Permission: No. (Well once - found the trashed remnants of cache including log pages)

Mystery w/o Solving: No.

Bonus Finds: No.

Moved Cache: No.

Pocket Caches: No.

Retirement Cache: No.

Multiple Event Finds: No.

Group Finds: Yes, if I help in the hunt and sign the cache it's a find.

Armchair Caches: No.

Locationless: No.

Events: Yes.

Virtuals: Yes.

Webcams: Yes

Earthcaches: Yes.

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For me:

 

* Fake Finds: No.

* Own Caches: No.

* Tried Hard: No.

* Another Site: No.

* Missing/Replaced:Yes if the owner says to go out and find it and says if it is missing to put one there.

* Missing/Owner Permission: Yes and the owner volunteered it, I didn't ask.

* Mystery w/o Solving:Yes- I brute forced a few from inadvertant hints in logs

* Bonus Finds:

* Moved Cache: Yes if the owner says it is a totally new style or location.

* Pocket Caches: No.

* Retirement Cache: No.

* Multiple Event Finds: Yes, if the organizer says you can do it.

* Group Finds: Yes, you all looked for it.

* Armchair Caches: Yes, did only 2.

* Locationless: Yes.

* Events: Yes.

* Virtuals: Yes.

* Webcams:Yes.

* Earthcaches: Yes.

* With another cacher when he hid it: Yes, but sign down log and wait for several people to find it first before logging mine.

 

Basically, if the owner says it is ok- do it.

Edited by Wacka
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there are actual ligitimate armchair caches? or are you just saying there are some viturals that can be googled?

 

If there are some legitimate ones, would you mind sharing one so i could at least check it out?

 

I've seen a few. They involved solving a puzzle or riddle and logging the find. They were meant to be armchair caches. I don't remember their names though.

 

Here is what might be the most popular one: Four Windows; and here's a real cache that became one due to an online geocaching 'game': Änglamarken.

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Copy/paste Fizzy's without color. My own additions in bold.

 

Fake Finds: No.

Own Caches: No.

Adopted Caches: Depends (only if I've found it before I had intended to adopt it)

Tried Hard: No.

Another Site: No.

Missing/Replaced: No.

Missing/Owner Permission: Depends.*

Mystery w/o Solving: Depends.**

Bonus Finds: No.

Moved Cache: No, if the waypoint is the same.

Pocket Caches: No. (never heard of it until recently)

Retirement Cache: No. (never heard of it until recently)

Multiple Event Finds: No, but I'm guilty of one - won't delete, it's part of my "cheating" history. :ph34r:

Group Finds: Yes.

With Hider When Hidden: No, until I revisit the cache, usually for maintenance or TB exchange.

Armchair Caches: No.

Locationless: Yes, especially since I did find them.

Events: Yes.

Virtuals: Yes.

Webcams: Yes, but I haven't logged one yet.

Earthcaches: Yes.

 

* I helped replace a missing fizzymagic puzzle cache once. I got permission to log it, but didn't do so, since I didn't solve it yet. I've solved it now, so I'll go back and sign the log next time I'm in the area

 

** If I "brute-forced" the cache (finding it by luck, studying the logs, analyzing maps and owner's tendencies) then I'll claim a find. If I was with someone else at the cache, but did not solve the puzzle, I usually don't log a find. I'll log "owner spoilers" with permission.

Edited by budd-rdc
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there are actual ligitimate armchair caches? or are you just saying there are some viturals that can be googled?

 

If there are some legitimate ones, would you mind sharing one so i could at least check it out?

 

I've seen a few. They involved solving a puzzle or riddle and logging the find. They were meant to be armchair caches. I don't remember their names though.

 

Here is what might be the most popular one: Four Windows; and here's a real cache that became one due to an online geocaching 'game': Änglamarken.

 

I thought vituals weren't allowed? I'm sure it's on it's way over to Waymarking.com....

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there are actual ligitimate armchair caches? or are you just saying there are some viturals that can be googled?

 

If there are some legitimate ones, would you mind sharing one so i could at least check it out?

 

I've seen a few. They involved solving a puzzle or riddle and logging the find. They were meant to be armchair caches. I don't remember their names though.

 

Here is what might be the most popular one: Four Windows; and here's a real cache that became one due to an online geocaching 'game': Änglamarken.

 

I thought vituals weren't allowed? I'm sure it's on it's way over to Waymarking.com....

 

Those are grandfathered . If you notice it's an "F" cache.

 

Thanks for pointing this one out- I have to log it now. :ph34r:

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Corps, excellent thread and thanks for starting it! I like the structure, where you are inviting each poster to share how they would do it, rather than judgement. And, I like the various delineations and categorizations offered in the first few posts, and particularly the scale offered by Markwell -- thanks, Markwell!

 

I am busy this morning, too busy to take the time to relate right now how I would handle each exigency, but I will indeed send a post exploring such matters to this thread in the next day or two. Thanks again!

 

Have fun!

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there are actual ligitimate armchair caches? or are you just saying there are some viturals that can be googled?

 

If there are some legitimate ones, would you mind sharing one so i could at least check it out?

 

I've seen a few. They involved solving a puzzle or riddle and logging the find. They were meant to be armchair caches. I don't remember their names though.

 

Here is what might be the most popular one: Four Windows; and here's a real cache that became one due to an online geocaching 'game': Änglamarken.

 

I thought vituals weren't allowed? I'm sure it's on it's way over to Waymarking.com....

 

Maybe I can clear up a few things here, that is, if I have my own facts in order! First, older existing virtuals have been grandfathered, and thus numerous older virtuals still remain on gc.com -- it is new virtuals which are not allowed. For them, go to Waymarking.com.

 

Secondly, there are a good number of caches listed at this site which are armchair caches, which, in other words, can be logged at a distance, but if and only if you complete the requirements. We had long owned find logs for three of these, one in New England, one in the Midewest, and one on the West Coast. In fact, there are at least three bookmark lists which list many of the known armchair caches listed here. I wil try to find them in my database... rummage.... rummage..... rummage...... rummage......... sort....... display......

AHA! Here they are, with a bit of a blurb on them:

 

First, there is a thread devoted to armchair caching, entitled Geocaching For Those Who Can't Get Out Of Their House? (Ever thought of a video type game of geocaching??) at http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...4entry2079804

 

And, here are some interesting-looking bookmark lists from that thread; the list of bookmark lists (aka a "meta-bookmark bookmark list") follows:

 

Couch Caching by Odragon, at http://www.geocaching.com/bookmarks/view.a...35-caff28a22b7e

 

Armchair Caches, by Haggis Hunter, at http://www.geocaching.com/bookmarks/view.a...0d-247765c51c2e

 

Couch Caches by Packman5, at http://www.geocaching.com/bookmarks/view.a...93-e018de74b5dd

 

Couch Caching by chstress53, at http://www.geocaching.com/bookmarks/view.a...4e-318c1fde3ce0

 

Google Caches by hulmgulm, at http://www.geocaching.com/bookmarks/view.a...b7-63c3999d5bb4

 

Have fun!

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Oh the morality of it all. :mad:

 

The Clan Riffster perspective:

 

Fake Finds: No.

Own Caches: No.

Tried Hard: No.

Another Site: No.

Missing/Replaced: Maybe. If I tote an ammo can two miles through the swamp to replace somebody elses muggled cache, I'll probably claim it as a find. If I replace a parkinglot micro for someone, I'd ask the owner. If they gave me a thumbs up, I'd log a find.

Missing/Owner Permission: Depends on the amount of work involved.

Mystery w/o Solving: Yes. If I find it, regardless of the circumstances involved, I'm logging it.

Bonus Finds: Depends.

Moved Cache: Depends.

Pocket Caches: Probably.

Retirement Cache: Depends.

Multiple Event Finds: No.

Group Finds: Yes.

Armchair Caches: Don't know what these are, so "No".

Locationless: Yes.

Events: Yes.

Virtuals: Yes.

Webcams: Yes, but haven't been to one yet.

Earthcaches: Yes

 

Another moral dilema: You help another player hide a cache. Do you log it? A while back I helped my daughter Mogwai913 hide her first cache, a 5 stage multi. I'll probably go out there eventually to do some maintanance, at which time I'll sign the logbook and claim a find. I wouldn't do this until several other players have already logged finds.

 

Yes, I know that's probably a cardinal sin, and will undoubtably result in my being banished to geohades for an eternity of torment, but remember, you asked for opinions. :mad:

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My wife doesn't have an account so she wanted me to post for her.

 

* Fake Finds: No.

* Own Caches: No.

* Tried Hard: No.

* Another Site: No.

* Missing/Replaced: No.

* Missing/Owner Permission: No.

* Mystery w/o Solving: No.

* Bonus Finds: No.

* Moved Cache: No.

* Pocket Caches: No.

* Retirement Cache: No.

* Multiple Event Finds: No.

* Group Finds: No.

* Armchair Caches: No.

* Locationless: No.

* Events: No.

* Virtuals: No.

* Webcams: No.

* Earthcaches: No.

* With another cacher when he hid it: No.

* Logging a TB or coin just because I saw it: No.

 

Edited to mentioned that she will and has gone caching.

Edited by BlueDeuce
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Why does the website even allow multiple finds on a single cache? It seems like most everyone agrees that this is not okay, and it seems like it would be fairly easy to restrict.

 

Well the only time I could see could be warranted is for a moving cache. They are caches that move from place to place, sometimes withinga region and sometimes throughout the country. Though no longer allowed, but some old ones are gradfathered.

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I had a cache that got muggled. When I replaced it I moved it to a new and more difficult location. The container may have been the same and the name was the same, but that was about all so I sent a note to all cachers that had found the first cache that this was available and theycould log it again if they could find it.

 

:mad:

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I'll actually stay on topic for once in my life.. Here goes:

 

Fake Finds: No.

Own Caches: No.

Tried Hard: No.

Another Site: No.

Missing/Replaced: No.

Missing/Owner Permission: No.

Mystery w/o Solving: Maybe - Depends if I at least participated in the solving

Bonus Finds: No.

Moved Cache: No.

Pocket Caches: Absolutely NOT

Retirement Cache: No.

Multiple Event Finds: No.

Group Finds: Yes, as long as I was there and didn't wait in the car

Armchair Caches: Absolutely NOT

Locationless: No

Events: Yes - ONCE

Virtuals: Yes - ONCE

Webcams: Yes

Earthcaches: Yes

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* Fake Finds: No.

* Own Caches: No.

* Tried Hard: No.

* Another Site: No.

* Missing/Replaced: No.

* Missing/Owner Permission: No.

* Mystery w/o Solving: No.

* Bonus Finds: No.

* Moved Cache: No.

* Pocket Caches: No.

* Retirement Cache: No.

* Multiple Event Finds: No.

* Group Finds: Yes.

* Armchair Caches: No.

* Locationless: No.

* Events: Yes

* Virtuals: Yes.

* Webcams: No.

* Earthcaches: No.

* With another cacher when he hid it: No.

* Logging a TB or coin just because I saw it: Only if I saw it in a cache, not at an event

(If I choose not to move it for whatever reason, or as is the case with a coin I have in

a cache, because it is not supposed to move, I will log a coin, but not a TB)

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BTW, HERE IS HOW I LOG MY STUFF

 

Logging false finds: NO

 

Logging a find because you tried : NO thats a DNF

 

Logging a find on a GC.com cache for a cache you found listed on another site:No I dont even know how to do this if I wanted to. Not sure I understand the question.

 

Logging a find on a missing cache you replaced: Maybe. I had one where I replaced the cache for the owner after I went looking for it. I found the exact location and method of the hide. Container was gone. I replaced it (with permission) and logged it as a find. I like to play for the red checks on the map, thats my motivation. If i could never log this just because I replaced it then I would have a spot with no red check and that just would not do. If I had previously found the cache and replaced it for a favor then NO I would just post a note.

 

Logging a find on a missing cache, owner says it’s OK: Maybe. Depends. Like the above question I found the location and the owner confirmed my find via email. Allowed me to log the find and they replaced it. I did log it as a find, but got over there as soon as I could to log it on paper. I did not log it a second time if you were wondering.

 

Logging a find on a multi cache if you didn’t do all the work (not finding all the stages, someone else did or you just get lucky and find it): Yes, as long as I was a part of it. I have also several times found the last stage by luck or by cunning. Reading clues or a good guess. This is actually an acheivment so yes I would log it as a find. No differenct then when I started to do this without a GPS.

 

Logging a find on a mystery/puzzle cache if you didn’t do all the work (not finding all the stages, someone else did the puzzle or you just get lucky and find it): Same answer as the above question on multies

 

Logging additional find for ‘bonus’ given by the owner: NO

 

Logging additional find because cache was moved or altered: Yes (sort of) again I (and I say I) play for the red checks. There have been some caches that were archived that I had previously found. They were reactivated exactly as was before even using the same paper log with my name still on it from when I found it before. I took my red check back by "finding" it again. then when I was in the area and not going out of my way, I would resign my name on the paper log. If it were a different hide I would not do this.

 

Logging additional finds because cache has more than one stage and owner says it’s OK: No

 

Logging pocket caches (not listed anywhere): no dont even know what this is

 

Logging pocket caches (a previously listed cache): no.

 

Logging ‘retirement’ cache: no.

 

Logging temporary event caches (either on the event page or another, permanent cache that the owner says you can log them on): Yes I feel its part of their event and if they set it up that way I play by their rules and I did find it so its not a lie.

 

Logging multiple finds on a moving cache: Maybe. I have only one find on a traveling cache that keeps poping up in my area. It would be another find (location) but I dont know. Have not got there yet.

 

Logging a cache you found with a group: yes, but I have to be present at the find. My other half and I cache together. Sometimes I sign her name, sometimes she signs mine. Our rule is whoever finds it signs it with their name first. But we are both actually there.

 

Logging one find for a cache listed on this (or any other) site: Not sure I know what this question is. If its listed on this site, and I go out and find it then Yes. But is that not what everyone does or am I not understanding this question.

 

Logging ‘arm chair’ caches: I am guessing this means if my other half finds a cache without me and I go to log it as a find for myself. Absolutely NO NO NO. We each have our own accounts.

 

Logging locationless caches: Sure if I do it. I have not to date.

 

Logging virtuals: yes There was one vertual I had visited many many times before I was into this game. I knew the answer and was very familiar with the site. I logged it as a find and was honest in my log of the nature. It was from my hometown some thousand miles away. The owner excepted my log. I thought it was really cool that site was there it was a rush just finding it on the site.

 

Logging earthcaches: yes Have not done so yet tho.

 

Logging webcams: yes. Logged my first one the other day

 

Logging events: yes.

 

Logging your own cache (including events): Ok I would say NO but I did this once. Here is the story. There was some major flooding up here. My cache had gotten washed away so I archived it. I was out on the river and by some stroke of luck found it sticking up out of the sandbar way downriver still intact. I logged it as a find. I did find it that was not a lie.

 

Logging an archived cache : I have logged a find on some caches that were archived. I did find them. They were archived for whatever reason but the cache itself is still alive and well. Logged my find on the paper log and went to log it on the site and found it was archived. So I still logged it anyway.

 

Respond to as many or as few as you’d like. If there is a situation I’ve missed, feel free to add it.

 

Once again: please keep replies on topic and only voice your own opinions- don’t comment on anyone elses. If you think this thread is useless, that’s not the topic here, start your own thread.

 

Edited to seperate and clarify the multi/mystery finds.

Edited by Roamingbull
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Forgot a couple

 

Geo coins - I log these but have to have it in my hands and take it from one cache to the next. I see that there is a descovered link now, I may use that.

 

Here is another angle

 

TB or GEO coin in a cache you have already found do you go get it. - I have to say yes I do (coins) or a travel but that I can really help along the way.

 

Oh and I understand what an armchair cache is now so as long as that is the rule of the cache (what it is set up for by the owner) then Yes I would, have not done so yet however.

 

Logging caches or taking credit for a cache that your other half or "team found" but you were not there - NO (this is what I at first thought an armchair cache was)

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Someone brought up geocoins and TBs. My general rule for geocoins is that I have to find them in a cache. I won't go to an event and count coup on coins and I won't log personal geocoins that people carry around with them. Not that I see anything wrong with the practice. Its just not my cup of stout.

 

As far as TBs, if I see one at an event that I can move along, I will take it and move it along. I won't count coup on one and leave it there though. If a geocoin is actually being used as a traveler (somewhat rare these days) I will treat it like a TB. If someone were to give me one and ask me to move it along, then I would log it and move it along.

Edited by briansnat
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My general rule is I'll log a find on a cache found in the wild where I was able to sign the log.

 

Yes, sometimes this means I'm picking up the remains of the cache, adding a new logbook or slip of paper, and other things, but in all cases, I've actually found the cache.

 

I'll log events caches, but I'd rather they didn't add to the find count. I think the handling of the social aspect could be handled a whole lot differently and with better results.

 

Logging "bonus" smilies without a physical cache? Nope.

 

We've not logged bonus caches at events on the event page, and I wouldn't have a problem with it if there wasn't a massive potential for abuse.

 

Locationlesses. Done it. Didn't turn me on. We generally don't care for non-physical caches and tend to skip them.

 

Trackables are only logged if we find them in the wild (or forced into because we're distributing them like the White Jeep.) Actually, we could probably have one of the longest list of icons as anyone because of the work we did for the South African coin. We could have logged some very rare coins. Cheating? Yes, in my opinion, though I think it little different than logging a coin you didn't find in the wild.

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