# Geocaching: Sport Or Game?

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I think of geocaching as a hobby.

In sports, all competitors start off at the same level in any one particular league. Everyone starts at zero and there is a definite end.

A game involves sides and has some sort of competitive aspect to it.

A find count is the only real way available to quantify a cacher for comparison. However, geocaching would still exist in some form even if the find count didn't.

Even when we challenge each other with puzzles or well integrated hides, the other person will still eventually "win" by finding the cache. There are no turns, no "you hide one and then I'll hide one" aspect.

I do admit it does fit the notion of "play," but then what hobby doesn't?

I think of geocaching as a hobby.

In sports, all competitors start off at the same level in any one particular league. Everyone starts at zero and there is a definite end.

A game involves sides and has some sort of competitive aspect to it.

A find count is the only real way available to quantify a cacher for comparison. However, geocaching would still exist in some form even if the find count didn't.

Even when we challenge each other with puzzles or well integrated hides, the other person will still eventually "win" by finding the cache. There are no turns, no "you hide one and then I'll hide one" aspect.

I do admit it does fit the notion of "play," but then what hobby doesn't?

Well, here I go again agreeing with CR ! Well said CR it is more of a hobby .

Star

I think of geocaching as a hobby.

In sports, all competitors start off at the same level in any one particular league. Everyone starts at zero and there is a definite end.

A game involves sides and has some sort of competitive aspect to it.

A find count is the only real way available to quantify a cacher for comparison. However, geocaching would still exist in some form even if the find count didn't.

Even when we challenge each other with puzzles or well integrated hides, the other person will still eventually "win" by finding the cache. There are no turns, no "you hide one and then I'll hide one" aspect.

I do admit it does fit the notion of "play," but then what hobby doesn't?

I disagree (big surprise ). A hobby would be governed by your own set of rules and regulations. Geocaching is governed by a central set of rules and regulations. Thank goodness that you don't set the rules and regulations for this sport or else I'd have to shoot myself in the head.

Definition Time:

hobby

n 1: Small Old World falcon formerly trained and flown at small birds.

Clearly Geocaching is not a small old world falcon. I hope this puts the 'hobby' idea to rest once and for all.

In sports, all competitors start off at the same level in any one particular league. Everyone starts at zero and there is a definite end.

I have to address this seperately. I can think of many, many sports that are individual in nature. Your definition above is short sighted and incomplete at best. Here are many examples of sports that do not fit your description:

Amateur Radio Direction Finding (Amateur Radio is the hobby, Direction finding the sport)

Geocaching (GPS navigation the hobby, geocaching the sport)

Orienteering (Compass Reading the hobby, Orienteering the sport)

Martial Arts (Still a sport/exercise even without the competition)

Horseback Riding (Horses the hobby, riding the sport)

Target Shooting (Guns the hobby, shooting the sport)

The difference between a game and a sport I think is simply the level of activity. A sport requires activity, whereas a game requires little to no activity. Examples:

Solitaire (Competitive against a set of pre-defined rules)

Chess (A competitive game)

Checkers (the same as above)

Backgammon

Dating

You get the point... Although dating sometimes requires activity. Geocaching is clearly not a game. Geocaching is not a hobby because it has a pre-determined set of rules and guidelines. The only option left is sport because of the requirement for physical activity.

Case closed? I doubt it

Expensive Past-time.

Geocaching is a sport governed by the rules of geocaching.com. I disagree with all this "It's what you make it" crap. That's like going out to play softball and deciding, "I play softball by running the bases backwards". Well, you are more than welcome to run backwards, but you will be called out and hurt your team.

There are definite rules that must be followed in this sport. If you don't like the rules, there are other sites you can go to, but then you aren't a "Geocacher" anymore. If you go to terracaching, you become a TerraCacher, not a Geocacher. I've already gotten all the terracaches within 50 miles of my home (That would be a total of 1).

Wow.. I thought you SNORTED there for a minute.

Do you think that the rules of GeoCaching.com are that clear cut? I think you'll find of shades of gray if you really read into them. If there's going be a sport where fair competition and scoring (finds) exist, there's more work to be done in my opinion.

I agree completely. There are definitely things that need to be worked out, but it's getting there

It's clear that there are some that would embrace this direction of Geocaching. We agree that there's some degree of change needed before two find counts, accumulated within a certain measure of time, could be compared in a fair competition. I, for one, think this would be interesting.

I also think that there's a certain type of Geocacher that would not benefit from these changes if they were done globally. The group that would suffer is the recreational cacher which I believe to be the majority of cachers. I suppose I am an idealist but I think Geocaching can be all things to all cachers if the differences of these two groups, Recreational and Competitive, were acknowledged and embraced.

Lastly, if Geocaching is going to continue to evolve, I think everyone would benefit by acknowledging that both Competitive and Recreational cachers experiences are different. This is a not a call for seperation of the two types of players by any means. I am suggesting a designation for competitve cachers where you can see at a glance in their profile that the find count they are posting has met certain criteria. Whatever that is, I would leave to the more experienced cachers to hash out.

We agree that there's some degree of change needed before two find counts, accumulated within a certain measure of time, could be compared in a fair competition. I, for one, think this would be interesting.

A competition can be a sport, a game, or a hobby. But a sport does not necessarily have to involve a competition. I thought the question involved GAME versus SPORT. When you throw competition into the mix, that's an entirely different topic. I think competitions could be implemented using events perhaps? Ready, Set, Go! ........... Bob Wins!!! I would love to get involved in something like that because of my competitive nature. Anyone in Portland want to setup some kind of Competition Event?

We agree that there's some degree of change needed before two find counts, accumulated within a certain measure of time, could be compared in a fair competition. I, for one, think this would be interesting.

A competition can be a sport, a game, or a hobby. But a sport does not necessarily have to involve a competition. I thought the question involved GAME versus SPORT. When you throw competition into the mix, that's an entirely different topic. I think competitions could be implemented using events perhaps? Ready, Set, Go! ........... Bob Wins!!! I would love to get involved in something like that because of my competitive nature. Anyone in Portland want to setup some kind of Competition Event?

That would be fun! You have something for everyone.. computer and navigation experts in radio contact and communicating with the runners in the field, then there's the closers with the metal detectors and other search tools.

But it seems to me that there's some in this forum that are pretty competitve in nature now. The legitimacy of the find count of other geocachers just generated a huge amount of discussion and ultimately angst in another thread. My position is that these serious cachers are trying to make geocaching a competive sport when the current framework of regulation doesn't allow that.

I don’t fall under either category since I cache when I feel like it and don’t cache when I don’t. I’m not competitive at all, and the only issue I have with stats is that they be true, not based on lies and deceit. There are more faults in your logic than I can reasonably address.

I must largely agree with Criminal's opinions and observations as stated above. I feel that the the OP's analysis was very reductionistic and simplistic, and that while the OP's proposed solution had some interesting features, it too ignored some complex realities. And, I prefer that stats be largely true, but I have no problem with a bit of fuzziness -- after all, real life is not rendered black and white or in binary 0/1 code, but rather in infinite shades of colors and grays, and to me, this allows infinitely more complexity, fun and options.

For someone who's been caching for less than a year, you certainly have much to learn still. This activity is about bring people together not driving them apart, comparing their differences or apply over-inflated titles of grandeur to oneself. Listen and learn grasshopper, a "master" becomes a true master when he learns that greatness is a measure of willingness to learn and experience all aspects of existence.

A piece of advice from my father: A person who is great does not need to shout it to a crowd. When you're great people will know. You won't need to tell them.

I'm not sure who you were talking to.

If you're talking to me then you're obviously taking this thread way to seriously....

Hey! Go find someone else to insult you, it was me that he insulted.

Dang! Well, I'll keep looking. There must be an insulting person around here somewhere.

Headybrew, if you need an insult, here goes:

You are....

an

evil, mean,

pusillanimous polecat

and

a hooligan and carpebagger to boot!

I think you would have to add adventure to description of caching......

Each cacher looks at caching a different way....IEs:

Going to a cache, about 3/4 mile away from cache indian encampments were found...

On Trail up to cache amythist crystals were found... A simple 1 hour cache find lasted over 4 hours cause of the adventure of the other finds we found...

Team_Talismans FTF was near indian rock art....10 minutes to cache from vehicle 3 hours exploring the rock art..

An adventure inside of a freesbee golf course....staying stealth to find and log the cache..

The team likes to try to rescue caches for people unknown to us.....adventure to find destroyed or displaced remanents of cache and try to figure out what caused the damage...

Team_Talisman looks at caching as adventure on every trip....

Edited by Team_Talisman

Wow, sorry it took so long to get back to this thread. I never intended for anyone to be insulted so let's look at this again and I'll answer your questions.

Point 1) You replied: "In no way was I suggesting any segregation of players, as you seem to be insinuating."

What you actually said in your original post was:

"I propose a new designation of Geocache player be formed, for the sake of this discussion let's call it a Master Cacher and give them their own icon. "

My response was and still is: If you single out or isolate any group you are in fact defining, to the letter, the word "segregation". I'm not insinuating, I double-checked the definition and it hasn't changed yet.

Point 2) You replied: "I was taking a position that Geocaching activity is and should remain a personal preference of each individual playing the game."

What you proposed in your original post was:

To save room here I'll paraphrase (and please feel free to correct me here). You propose a new set of rules and guidlines for "purist" geocachers so that they might be appreciated as such.

My response was and still is: "A person who is great does not need to shout it to a crowd. When you're great people will know. You won't need to tell them." (Dad still gets credit for that one) My point was that by caching and observing the caching habits of others we come to recognize the different styles and who the great ones are as they lead by example. These wonderful people don't need titles to get others to recognize their exceptional qualities.

Point 3) You asked: "Just curious, how'd you become so knowledgeable that you feel comfortable telling others "they have a lot to learn" in six months?"

I learned, much like yourself, by reading the forums that most of the profiles I've seen don't like to be pigeon-holed into a category of this or that kind of player. We all take very unique views of why we do what we do as has been made clear so many times by other cachers with far more experience than the two of us combined. I learned that from people who know more than myself and I accept their knowledge in the hope of becoming a better cacher. That you immediately pointed out that I've only been caching for "six-months" is a perfect example of my previous points as you so quickly segregate us by time played into yet another category. Not to mention that we are actually two people with well over 60 combined years of hiking and climbing, treasure hunting and exploring before caching came along. We've both been dragging garbage out of the woods decades before CITO was defined. So exactly what are you basing your angst and judgement on?

Like HeadyBrew so nicely illustrated, great wisdom is in understanding. Understanding can be reached by accepting knowledge from everyone regardless of age or experience.

I hope you haven't found this response to be an intended insult. It is merely to clarify what I said before when I was in a hurry. I understand your original post was to suggest establishing a higher criteria for a cacher who holds himself to a higher level. I applaud your concern and even your effort to raise awareness of cachers who want to define the game to a higher level. I just don't think separating out a small group of competitive cachers with a different set of rules and titles is going to help bring us together.

I disagree (big surprise ).

No, no surprise at all. Say, who do you agree with?

Is hiking a sport, game, or hobby?

For someone who's been caching for less than a year, you certainly have much to learn still. This activity is about bring people together not driving them apart, comparing their differences or apply over-inflated titles of grandeur to oneself. Listen and learn grasshopper, a "master" becomes a true master when he learns that greatness is a measure of willingness to learn and experience all aspects of existence.

A piece of advice from my father: A person who is great does not need to shout it to a crowd. When you're great people will know. You won't need to tell them.

I'm not sure who you were talking to.

If you're talking to me then you're obviously taking this thread way to seriously....

Hey! Go find someone else to insult you, it was me that he insulted.

Dang! Well, I'll keep looking. There must be an insulting person around here somewhere.

Headybrew, if you need an insult, here goes:

You are....

an

evil, mean,

pusillanimous polecat

and

a hooligan and carpebagger to boot!

That's better!!!!

Is hiking a sport, game, or hobby?

I dunno...Is going to a Wal-Mart (Tram-Law) parking lot a sport, game, or hobby? Is solving puzzles, word problems, or trivia a sport, game, or hobby? Statistics would probably tell you that most people think the latter is a game, coyotered's quote is a sport, both of which can be hobbies, and the former (wal-mart), well....I won't go there.

I think of geocaching as a hobby.

In sports, all competitors start off at the same level in any one particular league. Everyone starts at zero and there is a definite end.

A game involves sides and has some sort of competitive aspect to it.

A find count is the only real way available to quantify a cacher for comparison. However, geocaching would still exist in some form even if the find count didn't.

Even when we challenge each other with puzzles or well integrated hides, the other person will still eventually "win" by finding the cache. There are no turns, no "you hide one and then I'll hide one" aspect.

I do admit it does fit the notion of "play," but then what hobby doesn't?

I disagree (big surprise ). A hobby would be governed by your own set of rules and regulations. Geocaching is governed by a central set of rules and regulations. Thank goodness that you don't set the rules and regulations for this sport or else I'd have to shoot myself in the head.

Definition Time:

hobby

n 1: Small Old World falcon formerly trained and flown at small birds.

Clearly Geocaching is not a small old world falcon. I hope this puts the 'hobby' idea to rest once and for all.

If Photography is your hobby, it is governed by certain rules. Total darkness, etc....

You dont make all the rules. kite flying, model airplanes, etc, all have central standards.

or rules. So, actually, Hobby is closest to it.

If you dont think so, go to Hobby store and see all the books on how to do their hobbies.

Instruction books showing the rules (altho losly based rules) in which you need to follow.

Dont put model train tracks down the driveway into the street ! etc.

Allow me to quote what you wrote again:

For someone who's been caching for less than a year, you certainly have much to learn still. This activity is about bring people together not driving them apart, comparing their differences or apply over-inflated titles of grandeur to oneself. Listen and learn grasshopper, a "master" becomes a true master when he learns that greatness is a measure of willingness to learn and experience all aspects of existence."

When you start a sentence "For someone who has been caching for less than a year go on to basically call them clueless then finish up with LISTEN AND LEARN GRASSHOPPER .....that is going to put anyone on the defensive. I find it amazing that you would think anyone wouldn't feel insulted after seeing that. I had assumed that you had been Geocaching for years. I am glad that you've got a great outdoors experience, treasure hunter, and whatever else. But maybe you could ask your father how was I supposed to know that and second how were you able to size up my experience outside of Geocaching from your forum post?

Is hiking a sport, game, or hobby?

It's cleary not a game. I could see an argument for hobby or sport. It's got the physical aspects of a sport, but it's not governed by any central set of rules, so I would say Hobby. If you joined the "Mid Atlantic Hiking Association" and became a member of the organization and went on organized hikes, I would say it then becomes a Sport.

If all you did was use the GC.com site to get coordinates and hiked to the coordinates, enjoyed the view and left without signing the log book, trading items, etc. then I could see the argument for hobby, but again, you are governed by a central set of rules and regulations when geocaching.

As a previous poster commented that kite flying has rules, come on now! You make the rules when you go out and fly a kite. If you joined a kite flying organization that required membership to participate, it no longer is a hobby, it's a sport.

If Photography is your hobby, it is governed by certain rules. Total darkness, etc....

You dont make all the rules. kite flying, model airplanes, etc, all have central standards.

or rules. So, actually, Hobby is closest to it.

If you dont think so, go to Hobby store and see all the books on how to do their hobbies.

Instruction books showing the rules (altho losly based rules) in which you need to follow.

Dont put model train tracks down the driveway into the street ! etc.

This was where I was going with my query about hiking. Hiking is physical and does have guidelines. I don't know of anyone who would think of it as a sport or a game.

Geocaching is a little more involved but not much. Many of the rules folks run into involve getting their cache listed on this site--like the 528' rule. Trading even is just common courtesy that really shouldn't need saying, but apparently does. Same with putting it back or not spoiling the hunt for the next person. Signing the logbook is "bragging rights," kind of like taking a picture of your fish instead of saying, "it was this big."

So, no, geocaching doesn't have rules and regulations that elevate it to sport status.

Now, something that I've been thinking of would be a sport. Geocaching rodeo.

-snip-

Now, something that I've been thinking of would be a sport. Geocaching rodeo.

How 'bout geocaching paintball, where you hide your cache and then defend it? Now thats a game! Or is it a sport? Why do we care, again?

Why do we care, again?

We don't, really. I'm just defending why I use "hobby" when describing what I do. Also, helps when dealing with people who want to accuse us of "playing game in [fill in the blank.]"

As for Geocaching Rodeo, I'm serious. Sissy participates in Truckers Rodeo for her company. It doesn't involve how many trips you took, how many miles you drove, how long you've been driving, or how safe you've been. It involves various skills at handling your truck.

A geocaching rodeo would be similar. You demonstrate various skills used while geocaching. This is simply a fun thing to do during an event. I'm thinking I need 5 events. So far I've come up with taking coordinates, hint translation, bearing guessing, and distance guessing. These all are quantifiable activities that doesn't rely on subjective scoring or putting anything back where it was.

If you're over 55, it's a past time.

Allow me to quote what you wrote again:

For someone who's been caching for less than a year, you certainly have much to learn still. This activity is about bring people together not driving them apart, comparing their differences or apply over-inflated titles of grandeur to oneself. Listen and learn grasshopper, a "master" becomes a true master when he learns that greatness is a measure of willingness to learn and experience all aspects of existence."

When you start a sentence "For someone who has been caching for less than a year go on to basically call them clueless then finish up with LISTEN AND LEARN GRASSHOPPER .....that is going to put anyone on the defensive. I find it amazing that you would think anyone wouldn't feel insulted after seeing that. I had assumed that you had been Geocaching for years. I am glad that you've got a great outdoors experience, treasure hunter, and whatever else. But maybe you could ask your father how was I supposed to know that and second how were you able to size up my experience outside of Geocaching from your forum post?

Obviously you're not willing to accept any opinion other than your own so I won't continue after this post. I don't know where you made the jump from we're all in a learning experience to the idea that you alone are clueless. I never sized up your experience at all. I've pointed out repeatedly that greatness is about a willingness to learn. If you can't accept that logic, that's your right to disagree. That you keep making these enormous jumps in logic and insist on taking it all as personal attack is obviously upsetting you so I'm letting it go. Happy caching.

Allow me to quote what you wrote again:

For someone who's been caching for less than a year, you certainly have much to learn still. This activity is about bring people together not driving them apart, comparing their differences or apply over-inflated titles of grandeur to oneself. Listen and learn grasshopper, a "master" becomes a true master when he learns that greatness is a measure of willingness to learn and experience all aspects of existence."

When you start a sentence "For someone who has been caching for less than a year go on to basically call them clueless then finish up with LISTEN AND LEARN GRASSHOPPER .....that is going to put anyone on the defensive. I find it amazing that you would think anyone wouldn't feel insulted after seeing that. I had assumed that you had been Geocaching for years. I am glad that you've got a great outdoors experience, treasure hunter, and whatever else. But maybe you could ask your father how was I supposed to know that and second how were you able to size up my experience outside of Geocaching from your forum post?

Obviously you're not willing to accept any opinion other than your own so I won't continue after this post. I don't know where you made the jump from we're all in a learning experience to the idea that you alone are clueless. I never sized up your experience at all. I've pointed out repeatedly that greatness is about a willingness to learn. If you can't accept that logic, that's your right to disagree. That you keep making these enormous jumps in logic and insist on taking it all as personal attack is obviously upsetting you so I'm letting it go. Happy caching.

Fox and Hound, I feel that you said that well; I had been tempted to write much the same, as a somewhat independent observer. Thanks!

Allow me to quote what you wrote again:

For someone who's been caching for less than a year, you certainly have much to learn still. This activity is about bring people together not driving them apart, comparing their differences or apply over-inflated titles of grandeur to oneself. Listen and learn grasshopper, a "master" becomes a true master when he learns that greatness is a measure of willingness to learn and experience all aspects of existence."

When you start a sentence "For someone who has been caching for less than a year go on to basically call them clueless then finish up with LISTEN AND LEARN GRASSHOPPER .....that is going to put anyone on the defensive. I find it amazing that you would think anyone wouldn't feel insulted after seeing that. I had assumed that you had been Geocaching for years. I am glad that you've got a great outdoors experience, treasure hunter, and whatever else. But maybe you could ask your father how was I supposed to know that and second how were you able to size up my experience outside of Geocaching from your forum post?

Obviously you're not willing to accept any opinion other than your own so I won't continue after this post. I don't know where you made the jump from we're all in a learning experience to the idea that you alone are clueless. I never sized up your experience at all. I've pointed out repeatedly that greatness is about a willingness to learn. If you can't accept that logic, that's your right to disagree. That you keep making these enormous jumps in logic and insist on taking it all as personal attack is obviously upsetting you so I'm letting it go. Happy caching.

Fox and Hound, I feel that you said that well; I had been tempted to write much the same, as a somewhat independent observer. Thanks!

Let's mello out people!

Just remember that the only rocks we need to lift up are those with caches underneath them!

The master smiled.

+1

Allow me to quote what you wrote again:

For someone who's been caching for less than a year, you certainly have much to learn still. This activity is about bring people together not driving them apart, comparing their differences or apply over-inflated titles of grandeur to oneself. Listen and learn grasshopper, a "master" becomes a true master when he learns that greatness is a measure of willingness to learn and experience all aspects of existence."

When you start a sentence "For someone who has been caching for less than a year go on to basically call them clueless then finish up with LISTEN AND LEARN GRASSHOPPER .....that is going to put anyone on the defensive. I find it amazing that you would think anyone wouldn't feel insulted after seeing that. I had assumed that you had been Geocaching for years. I am glad that you've got a great outdoors experience, treasure hunter, and whatever else. But maybe you could ask your father how was I supposed to know that and second how were you able to size up my experience outside of Geocaching from your forum post?

Obviously you're not willing to accept any opinion other than your own so I won't continue after this post. I don't know where you made the jump from we're all in a learning experience to the idea that you alone are clueless. I never sized up your experience at all. I've pointed out repeatedly that greatness is about a willingness to learn. If you can't accept that logic, that's your right to disagree. That you keep making these enormous jumps in logic and insist on taking it all as personal attack is obviously upsetting you so I'm letting it go. Happy caching.

I have zero malice towards you. I accept the fact that we differ in opinion as a healthy postitive thing. When I posted my thoughts I knew that some folks would not agree with me and many have expressed that they don't in this thread. Interesting that your post was the only one that gave me pause huh?

Just put this to the test some time if you would. Find any stranger on the street and bluntly point his or her alleged inexperience in anything they like to do. Then address them as GRASSHOPPER and tell them to listen and learn before you administer your own logic on them. Be sure to do it in the same sentence for effect. I am thinking you'll come up with similar results.

Sheesh.

Edited by Team GeoBlast

So, no, geocaching doesn't have rules and regulations that elevate it to sport status.

Hiking does have rules, but they are generally rules that you determine yourself. It becomes a Sport when it is organized and governed by "CENTRAL" rules, which perfectly describes geocaching. That's why it calls itself a SPORT on the homepage. I would agree with you completely that it is NOT a competition though (although I'd like it to be ). I think we are just having a problem defining our terms.

Can we agree on this:

Hobby - An activity fully governed by yourself with your own set of rules

Sport - An organized hobby with a set of central rules - generally involves physical activity

Game - A Sport or Hobby with competition at its core

I dunno.. Sounds good to me

So, no, geocaching doesn't have rules and regulations that elevate it to sport status.

Hiking does have rules, but they are generally rules that you determine yourself. It becomes a Sport when it is organized and governed by "CENTRAL" rules, which perfectly describes geocaching.

Wrong on both counts. There are definite guidelines in hiking that is not determined by yourself. Conversely, folks are always trying to make up new rules in geocaching.

Care to outline these "central" rules? I bet most of them are not as you think they are.

Besides, if there were a central group that controls the activity through a set of rules and regulations then there wouldn't be much in the way of a debate over a whole host of things some of which are going on right now.

EDIT: forgot to add this site calls it a game, as well, so what's your point? Jeremy has said time and again goecaching is not competitive.

Edited by CoyoteRed

Wrong on both counts. There are definite guidelines in hiking that is not determined by yourself. Conversely, folks are always trying to make up new rules in geocaching.

If I decide to go out hiking tomorrow, noone is going to outline who, what, where, why, when, or how I am going to go about doing that. What rules of hiking are you referring to exactly? The laws of Gravity? In geocaching, there are MANY rules relating to cache placement. If you do not follow the rules, your cache will not be placed.

I think you are just being difficult for the sake of being difficult. Humor me... If I were to go out hiking tomorrow, exactly what specific rules am I suppose to follow and who determined those rules? I think it's very clear that TPTB have created guidelines for cache placement and cache retrieval. Not everyone follows those guidelines, but hey, that's life.

To sum up -- Answer the question above: What rules are there in hiking and who determines those rules.

Thanks!

To sum up -- Answer the question above: What rules are there in hiking and who determines those rules.
The hiking community came up with stuff like don't cut switch-backs, LNT, etc. Actually, it is easy to know if there are any rules to hiking. Type "hiking" and "rules" in Google and see what pops up.

This is cache listing guidelines. This is simply for getting your cache listed on Groundspeak's service. It has little or nothing to do with the way you conduct yourself during the activity.

Actually, the rules for geocaching (note no dot com) have more to do with defining what a geocache is, how the clues are presented, and how you conduct yourself in the field, like protect the environment and leaving the cache ready for others to find it. There is no central body that describes this nor is it dictated by some governing body. The hobby is actually loosely organized and steered by the community.

If you do not follow the rules, your cache will not be placed.
Forgot to address this above. "Placed" and "listed" are two different things. Many times folks have placed a cache only to not have it listed for some reason. Sometimes these reasons are as simple as it being a vacation cache or too close to another cache. Nothing wrong with the cache except that it violated Groundspeak listings guidelines. List them on another site--or privately--and it's perfectly fine.

Does it really matter?

Hobby - An activity fully governed by yourself with your own set of rules

Sport - An organized hobby with a set of central rules - generally involves physical activity

Game - A Sport or Hobby with competition at its core

Although I don't completely agree with those tree bullet points as defined above.

Geocaching is a hobby. No doubt about it.

Where does Monopoly fall in that list. I always thought it was a game.

Accomplishments in sports can be quantified but well defined events. Barry Bonds has 713 home runs because he hit the ball over the fence that many times. Those stats are correlated by the league.

Honestly, the stats regarding Geocaching are pretty arbitrary. (Virtual finds, multiple finds at events, groups finds, finding your own cache)

Games have winners and conclude at an predefined ending.

Perhaps if we all stopped caching at 1111 finds we could quantify caches accomplishments better. ???

It's a hobby, just like model railroading, doll house building or collecting vinyl records. You focus what's interesting to you.

All I know, is I still get a thrill out of finding a plastic container hidden in the woods, getting myself and the cache mobile covered in mud, enjoying the outdoors and discovering new and interesting place. Plus, the people I meet always amaze me.

Hobby - An activity fully governed by yourself with your own set of rules

Sport - An organized hobby with a set of central rules - generally involves physical activity

Game - A Sport or Hobby with competition at its core

Although I don't completely agree with those tree bullet points as defined above.

Geocaching is a hobby. No doubt about it.

Where does Monopoly fall in that list. I always thought it was a game.

Accomplishments in sports can be quantified but well defined events. Barry Bonds has 713 home runs because he hit the ball over the fence that many times. Those stats are correlated by the league.

Honestly, the stats regarding Geocaching are pretty arbitrary. (Virtual finds, multiple finds at events, groups finds, finding your own cache)

Games have winners and conclude at an predefined ending.

Perhaps if we all stopped caching at 1111 finds we could quantify caches accomplishments better. ???

It's a hobby, just like model railroading, doll house building or collecting vinyl records. You focus what's interesting to you.

All I know, is I still get a thrill out of finding a plastic container hidden in the woods, getting myself and the cache mobile covered in mud, enjoying the outdoors and discovering new and interesting place. Plus, the people I meet always amaze me.

Concur 100% with this.

There's currently no defined measure of true accomplishment in Geocaching. While personally I am fine with GC as it is today, I would also be okay if there was a defined "next level" that new cachers could strive to reach. I think this would probably add to the retention of players too. Reading the stats thread a while ago and seeing that the average person executes something like 4 finds (posted without reviewing exactly what the number is), perhaps it is something GC might benefit by providing.

It would also aid in placating the -tally-ban that lurks in these forums that consistently and harshly come down on people for just playing the way they want to play.

Accomplishments in sports can be quantified but well defined events. Barry Bonds has 713 home runs because he hit the ball over the fence that many times. Those stats are correlated by the league.

I can't believe you threw me this softball!!! Barry Bonds cheated to get those 713 home runs and many have accused him of cheating! If he does break the record, there will forever be doubt associated with the record because of his cheating. Not all that different from geocachers cheating to get finds. (The only difference is the method of cheating. Barry injected drugs into his butt)

Your example certainly doesn't clarify this issue...

There's goes my induction into the Geocaching Hall of Fame.

There's goes my induction into the Geocaching Hall of Fame.

You never know! In 5 years, it may develop into a full-blown sporty sport and your find count will get dropped for all those inaccuracies And yes, it may have an effect on your induction into the GC hall of fame.

Here are my rough definitions (that I reserve the right to modify on a whim!):

Hobby: something you do to occupy your time, such as collecting, whittling, birdwatching;

Game: competitive activity not involving much in the way of athleticism. Poker, Bridge, Chinese Checkers, Clue, Croquet, there's plenty of others you could lump in here

Sport: competitive activity requiring athleticism. Here's where the arguments start, but I break it down thusly: anything that can be won by a professional player while they're smoking or drinking, isn't a sport. :-)

I don't consider Geocaching either a sport or a game. It's more of a hobby to me. There are others who are very competitive at it, so it becomes a game. They define the competitive benchmark, not me, because I'm not playing their game. It might be logged finds, it might be "race you to it," whatever.

Alternative definition for the conspiricy theorist: Geocaching is a recreational activity invented by the military-industrial complex to perfect GPS navigation and sell consumer electronics.

If you joined a kite flying organization that required membership to participate, it no longer is a hobby, it's a sport.

If I build a model airplane, it's a hobby. If I enter it in an IPMS contest, with required membership in the club, rules and judges and so on, what is it? Point being, centralized rules and membership requirements alone don't make a sport.

My vote: Recreational Activity.

Does it really matter?

nope.

Does it really matter?

nope.

That's funny, look at the tag line you use on your posts

"Enjoy the SPORT, not the brand name"

Here are my rough definitions (that I reserve the right to modify on a whim!):

Hobby: something you do to occupy your time, such as collecting, whittling, birdwatching;

Game: competitive activity not involving much in the way of athleticism. Poker, Bridge, Chinese Checkers, Clue, Croquet, there's plenty of others you could lump in here

Sport: competitive activity requiring athleticism. Here's where the arguments start, but I break it down thusly: anything that can be won by a professional player while they're smoking or drinking, isn't a sport. :-)

I don't consider Geocaching either a sport or a game. It's more of a hobby to me. There are others who are very competitive at it, so it becomes a game. They define the competitive benchmark, not me, because I'm not playing their game. It might be logged finds, it might be "race you to it," whatever.

Alternative definition for the conspiricy theorist: Geocaching is a recreational activity invented by the military-industrial complex to perfect GPS navigation and sell consumer electronics.

Heh Heh... I can't believe I'm wasting my time on this thread... But here goes.

I would put it hierarchically. Sports are games, and games in turn are hobbies.

Hobby: something you do for fun: a pastime.

Game: a hobby that contains a competitive component.

Sport: a Game which contains an athletic/physically demanding component.

Of course Deer Hunters and such call their activity a sport, when it doen't usually involve competition against other hunters... Go figure.

PS: it's "pastime", not "past time"

Does it really matter?

nope.

That's funny, look at the tag line you use on your posts

"Enjoy the SPORT, not the brand name"

I had to call it something. How about: "enjoy the generic and controversially labeled activity, not the brand name." ??

Here are my rough definitions (that I reserve the right to modify on a whim!):

Hobby: something you do to occupy your time, such as collecting, whittling, birdwatching;

Game: competitive activity not involving much in the way of athleticism. Poker, Bridge, Chinese Checkers, Clue, Croquet, there's plenty of others you could lump in here

Sport: competitive activity requiring athleticism. Here's where the arguments start, but I break it down thusly: anything that can be won by a professional player while they're smoking or drinking, isn't a sport. :-)

I don't consider Geocaching either a sport or a game. It's more of a hobby to me. There are others who are very competitive at it, so it becomes a game. They define the competitive benchmark, not me, because I'm not playing their game. It might be logged finds, it might be "race you to it," whatever.

Alternative definition for the conspiricy theorist: Geocaching is a recreational activity invented by the military-industrial complex to perfect GPS navigation and sell consumer electronics.

Heh Heh... I can't believe I'm wasting my time on this thread... But here goes.

I would put it hierarchically. Sports are games, and games in turn are hobbies.

Hobby: something you do for fun: a pastime.

Game: a hobby that contains a competitive component.

Sport: a Game which contains an athletic/physically demanding component.

Of course Deer Hunters and such call their activity a sport, when it doen't usually involve competition against other hunters... Go figure.

PS: it's "pastime", not "past time"

You'reright.

we consider it as a family hobby.

Here are my rough definitions (that I reserve the right to modify on a whim!):

Hobby: something you do to occupy your time, such as collecting, whittling, birdwatching;

Game: competitive activity not involving much in the way of athleticism. Poker, Bridge, Chinese Checkers, Clue, Croquet, there's plenty of others you could lump in here

Sport: competitive activity requiring athleticism. Here's where the arguments start, but I break it down thusly: anything that can be won by a professional player while they're smoking or drinking, isn't a sport. :-)

I don't consider Geocaching either a sport or a game. It's more of a hobby to me. There are others who are very competitive at it, so it becomes a game. They define the competitive benchmark, not me, because I'm not playing their game. It might be logged finds, it might be "race you to it," whatever.

Alternative definition for the conspiricy theorist: Geocaching is a recreational activity invented by the military-industrial complex to perfect GPS navigation and sell consumer electronics.

Heh Heh... I can't believe I'm wasting my time on this thread... But here goes.

I would put it hierarchically. Sports are games, and games in turn are hobbies.

Hobby: something you do for fun: a pastime.

Game: a hobby that contains a competitive component.

Sport: a Game which contains an athletic/physically demanding component.

Of course Deer Hunters and such call their activity a sport, when it doen't usually involve competition against other hunters... Go figure.

PS: it's "pastime", not "past time"

You'reright.

Hehehethatsfunny...

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