Climbing Harnesses

[CoyoteRed]

Looking for some advice and sources for climbing harnesses. I'm not looking for rock climbing harnesses per se, but I guess a general harness, might even be called a saddle. While I've done a bit of reading on the subject and know I need one with a bit of padding because we will be suspending in it for short(ish) periods, I'm wondering what you folks use.

 

We're going to be using it for vertical, rope-only accents and rappelling back down. Structures and trees.

[+webscouter.]

I really like the black diamond sport harnesses.

[CoyoteRed]

I really like the black diamond sport harnesses.

 

Are they comfortable when sitting with your full weight in them for a while?

[+two left feet]

I get my climbing equipment from REI. Here is what they have in harnesses;

 

http://www.rei.com/online/store/Search?sto...HP_CLIMBING_TOC

 

You might like one with some padding under the thighs. There is a link on their page for how to pick a harness.

[bogleman]

Baileys online catalog is a logging catalog and they have a good supply of what you may be looking for.

[+RIclimber]

I get my climbing equipment from REI. Here is what they have in harnesses;

 

http://www.rei.com/online/store/Search?sto...HP_CLIMBING_TOC

 

You might like one with some padding under the thighs. There is a link on their page for how to pick a harness.

This one should work. It has some padding, Adjustable leg loops and a belay loop to make rappelling easy

[+webscouter.]

I really like the black diamond sport harnesses.

 

Are they comfortable when sitting with your full weight in them for a while?

 

To be honest no harness is comfortable. You just need to find one that is bearable. I use the sport harness when teaching scouts climbing/rappelling and find that it is the most comfortable one out there. One hint is to make sure that the harness is TIGHT. Nothing will make a harness feel worse than one that is moving around on you.

 

Make sure you don't get an Alpine type harness. They are designed for manuverability and not comfort. Get a Sport or combo type harness.

 

Petzel or Black Diamond are good brands. I just prefer the Black Diamond harnesses that I have had.

[+The Jester]

Fit is the biggest key. No amount of padding will make up for a harness that doesn't fit you. The best thing to do is go into a climbing shop (REI or any other) and try them on. Any place of worth will have a rope you can hang on to see how it grabs you (or doesn't). Don't be shy about spending a long time hanging around, it may take many minutes to be sure. And don't take any one persons advice as gospel, everyone has their favorite, but if you size/shape is different, you won't always be happy. So try as many different places as you can get to, try a lot of different harnesses, gather lots of opinions. Also check out caving groups, they might have some ideas as they do alot of what you discribe.

 

Myself, I like the Black Diamond Bod Harness (NOT the Alpine Bod). No padding in the leg loops (which you might want) but fairly wide leg loops which are adjustable. A very unscientific survey of the Basic Climb classes with the Mountaineers, shows that nearly half the students use them. The fact that they (Bod harnesses) won't break the bank may have a lot to do with that.

 

You may want to look into adding a chest harness also. They can make your life easier on vertical ropes.

[magellan315]

Make sure you get a harness for rock climbing and not a fall arrest harness. If you slip the harnesses are designed to react in two different manners. A rock climbing harness is designed so you move away from the surface you are on, this way you don't hit any protruding surfaces. A fall arrest harness lets you fall in a vertical line and meant for confined spaces with no protruding surfaces.

 

Fit is crucial, just like hjiking boots, what is comfortable for one person is not for another.

[CoyoteRed]

Thanks for all of the replies so far.

 

Living in an area basically flat and most terrain change is man-made, there's not much in the way of climbing stores around. The Black Diamond Momentum AL looks interesting. I'll try to find an outfitter not too far away to try this out and see what other recommendations they have.

 

Oh! I take that back. I looked at the Black Diamond website for dealers and there is one local. I'll call at the reasonable time to see how they can help me with fit.

 

If you're interested in why a flat-lander needs a climbing harness, well, we've got a cache offline for area maintenance at one stage and now that it's available again I have to put back the clue...

 

We had a friend, who has since moved away, help us with maintenance on the clue previously. He used his climbing gear to get up there. Looks a lot easier than simply climbing a rope or even a rope ladder.

 

Thanks for ya'll's help. If anyone has something to add, feel free.

[+KBer]

You should call Shawn at Wesspur.com, he is an expert on this type of climbing equipment. His phone number can be located on the web site.

[+Wadcutter]

If you can find an Army Field Manual (can't remember the number) it will show you how to rig a seat using a length of rope. They're very secure, quick, and simple to tie. As Webscouter wrote, no seat is comfortable.

[+webscouter.]

Just thought I would mention, when you go to try on a harness don't put it on and stand up straight. That would make it really uncomfortable and isn't how you would wear in during use. If the outfitter doesn't have a wall for you to hang on for a bit test its' fit by squatting or crawling around. The harnesses are meant to be used in a "sitting" position. This will give you a more accurate feel for how the harness fits.

[+sbell111]

I'm a fan of the Yates Mountain Warfare Harness. It has a wide padded waist belt and wide leg straps that are less bulky and more comfortable than padded leg straps.

 

It's really a matter of personal preference. Like someone else said, go to any good sporting goods store and try a few out. You will quickly learn which features that you like or don't like. Once you find this out, shop for a good deal.

 

I assume that you are already fully trained in the use of this gear. If not get it before you go out and kill yourself.

[+BadAndy]

 

I assume that you are already fully trained in the use of this gear. If not get it before you go out and kill yourself.

 

I second that. It doesn't take much of a fall to do serious damage.

[+VegasCacheHounds]

I'm a big fan of my Black Diamond Bod (as said in an earlier post, not the Alpine Bod). Works great, affordable, and comfortable, even for extended periods. Its what I'm wearing in these pics:

 

 

 

 

Going to REI and trying on various ones is a very good idea.

[+VegasCacheHounds]

Oh, and just in case anyone starts asking what this all has to do with caching, I was on my way up to a cache in that last pic

[+AtoZ]

Get a hold of BOB & BOB caving supply. Cavers use various harness configurations for coming and going in caves.

I use a Metolious Wall Harness which is nice to hang in. I have other harness from just simple almost swamie belt to alpine depending on the need but for verticle work the Wall Harness is nice to hang in.

cheers

[+Confucius' Cat]

 

I assume that you are already fully trained in the use of this gear. If not get it before you go out and kill yourself.

 

I second that. It doesn't take much of a fall to do serious damage.

 

This is a VERY serious concern. From reading your post, the way you describe the activities you plan, it seems probable that you are not very familiar with rope work.

 

If you are only doing this once or twice, I would think the price of all the necessary equipment would be prohibitive.

 

A simple and very comfortable harness suitable for short periods of suspension (less than 30 min perhaps) can be "made" by simply tying a swiss seat harness with approximately 25-30 feet of 2" seat belt webbing. Again, this REQUIRES proper training... if you tie it wrong.... Well, you don't want to go there!

 

I have used various "factory" harnesses and i still prefer the good old fashioned swiss seat most of the time.

 

Swiss seat example

 

 

In addition to the harness, you will need an appropriate length of top quality climbing or rappelling rope (there is a difference and you don't want ANYTHING that is not top quality), several carabiners, several lengths of tubing sling, a set of Jumar® acesnders or equivalent (assuming you are going to "climb the rope" as u indicated), a figure eight or other rappelling device... it will be quite a cash outlay for a single expedition. You are talking several hundred dollars here.

 

I would recommend, rather than buying a harness, that you find a climbers' club and borrow or rent the equipment, along with their training and assistance in the expedition.

[CoyoteRed]

From reading your post, the way you describe the activities you plan, it seems probable that you are not very familiar with rope work.

 

You're right. We're just learning.

 

I got a lead on some training. Not much in the way of climbing clubs near the coast, though.

[+JakeBond]

never needed a harness for geocaching, but i have also used the black diamond harness in the work place rigging. when its put on properly, it can be pretty comfortable. ive even had some friends of mine use it in a dance piece that they were doing so they could clip into an ibolt in a wall and dance on the wall! they said it was comfortable enough...

[4wheelin_fool]

If you can find an Army Field Manual (can't remember the number) it will show you how to rig a seat using a length of rope. They're very secure, quick, and simple to tie. As Webscouter wrote, no seat is comfortable.

 

I believe that type of harness is called a "diaper harness"(which seems identical to the "swiss seat" mentioned, but I am not familiar with that name). They are very simple and not really that bad. I have made, and used them in the past when I was with newbies who I let use my Black Diamond harness. It consists of a length of rope with both ends tied together (a circle). You sit in the center of the circle and pull the rope together from both sides of your body and from your crotch and connect the 3 spots together in the front with a carabiner. Thats all there is to it. The only problem is that you have to experiment with the length of rope to decide the size of the circle so that it fits tight. Do NOT try it unless you are with an experienced rappeller, and do NOT use any ordinary type of rope other than climbing webbing. In fact, do not go AT ALL unless you are with someone experienced, as it is very important to use the correct knots. Other than that, Black Diamond is the leader in the market but the comfort of their harnesses varies with the price. (you get what you pay for)

[+Munin]

I got a lead on some training. Not much in the way of climbing clubs near the coast, though.

Have you looked into the Charleston County Parks and Recreation Climbing Wall and some of their associated events? (I see upcoming clinics for rappelling and climbing technique, for instance). The climbing wall and bouldering caves aren't exactly the biggest on the planet, but I think it's in your area and it could give you an intro to some of the basics - tying in properly, communicating with your belayer, practicing taking a fall, having your belayer catch and lower you, etc. The clinics seem like a good place for you to meet people who can provide more advanced instruction (setting up anchors, top-roping, rappelling, etc).

[+Confucius' Cat]

The smaller climbing areas can be quite good for training and experience. I got my start in Cincinnati; not much to climb there either, but one of the local outdoor stores had a small group and a qualified instructor.

 

My first "climb" was on an expressway cut using a "Walmart" utility rope- working load 300lbs. (Walmart didn't exist then but if I said "Twin Fair" no one would know what I meant)

 

My friend and I thought climbing was all about figuring out where you could put your feet that the "rock" wouldn't break from underneath you.

 

We lived.

 

When we looked back on it after taking Bob's climbing class from "Outdoor Adventures", we realized that we were VERY LUCKY- and VERY FOOLISH!

 

After learning how to do it RIGHT, we were also introduced to a lot of cool (nearby) places to climb which were generally unknown to the general public.

 

The wall at Climb ON Is where the practical parts of the class were held. This wall is totally man-made and has "routes" that will challenge even a very experienced climber. The only thing this wall lacks is height- it is 30 feet or so on the big wall and about 20 on the short wall. I used to climb the short wall unbelayed. I have fallen from near the top and did not get hurt. I never had guts enough to climb the big wall without a rope, though many do.

 

I'll bet if you look around a bit, (ask at the outdoor stores) you will find there are a few places like this in your area. You don't need a natural climbing area to learn.

 

The new-fangled artificial climbing walls are OK but they are a little "sterile" and most of the operators have permanent belays and stock harnesses so you don't learn much about rope work.

[CoyoteRed]

One of the reasons I'm looking into this is one of our caches we made a rope ladder in order to get the clue up there and for maintenance. No safety rope, nothing. Now, trying to do a two-handed job with one hand is bad enough, but doing while you have a considerable amount of weight on your other hand is tougher and that's after climbing 20+ feet to get there.

 

Actually doing that stage isn't all that bad. You get up there how ever you choose, find the clue, read the coords, and come down. (Hope you don't forget them on the way down. Which is another reason we suggest a partner--both safety and sanity.)

[+Confucius' Cat]

Freeing both hands whilst standing on a ladder or tree branch does not really require a climbing harness. You will actually be fully supported by the object you are standing upon. The trick is to maintain your balance without using your hand and learning to TRUST that balance.

 

The simplest thing is to use a simple chest harness, carabiner, and sling to "rope off" to a good anchor point higher than your chest (at the desired working level). You then lean back slightly in the harness, taking sufficient weight off the feet to produce a trustworthy three point suspension. In fact, for the purpose of freeing your hands whilst standing on a reliable footing, it is preferable to have your anchor point high at chest level rather than at waist level as would be in the typical climbing (seat) harness.

 

Chest harness:

Make a loop of 1" tubular nylon sling using a piece of sling about 2-1/2 times your chest girth. Make the loop by tying the ends together with a water knot, leaving at least 3 inches of extra sling beyond each end of the knot.

 

Place one arm through the loop and pull the loop around your back and through the other end of the loop so that the loop can "cinch up" like a slip-knot around your chest.

 

Clip the carabiner into the free end of the loop and attach it to a similar loop of sling which has been looped around your anchor point.

 

Even though the chest harness is a slip-knot design, it will not be uncomfortable or dangerous since you will not be putting your full body weight on it. If there is danger of falling and you need protection therefrom, you will also need a seat harness or a fall arrest harness as you indicated. The chest harness is ONLY for balance in order to free your hands.

 

I can provide pix if you want, but I do not have any handy.

 

Re the rope ladder:

 

I'm not sure I would ever trust someone else's permanently placed rope ladder. Ropes deteriorate in sunlight. The next user does not know who made it, how it is anchored, how old the rope is, how long it has been in the weather, etc. Also it cannot be fully inspected prior to beginning to climb. I would be very concerned that I would be on about the 15th step when i see the frayed rope just above my head. Bad news.

 

A cable ladder would be preferable for a permanent placement. They don't deteriorate in sunlight, but are subject to rust unless stainless steel. The trust factor for future users would be IMHO a lot greater.

 

The "trust" thing has been a problem for climbers all along. We learn not to trust unknown equipment. There are some climbs so "technical" that permanent hardware must be placed on the route. (There is always a lot of flack over this) Other climbers seldom trust hardware left by others, therefore more permanent hardware gets placed and next thing you know the rock looks like a climbing bolt showroom. Very "un-Green"!

 

Rope or cable, it takes a lot of skill/patience to use these ladders, even though the danger of falling is minimal (assuming the ladder or its anchors don't fail).

Edited May 14, 2006 by Confucius' Cat

[bandgeek]

Re the rope ladder:

 

I'm not sure I would ever trust someone else's permanently placed rope ladder. Ropes deteriorate in sunlight. The next user does not know who made it, how it is anchored, how old the rope is, how long it has been in the weather, etc. Also it cannot be fully inspected prior to beginning to climb. I would be very concerned that I would be on about the 15th step when i see the frayed rope just above my head. Bad news.

 

 

I work on a high ropes course, and agree very strongly with this! Ropes need to be properly stored, maintained and inspected before use. We do not leave our climbing ropes out overnight or lunch hour for fear of weather damage. Climbing 20+ feet would cause a lot of damage if the ladder were to fail unexpectedly. I would reccomend that cachers be required to bring their own rope. That way, they would (or should) know how to safely use all equipment, and they would be aware of its condition.

 

As for harnesses, I like my Petzel Adjama harness, and most Petzel gear. It is a bit more expensive than some other makes, but my camp bought it and I'm not going to complain. Anyone looking for climbing gear in Canada should try Mountain Equipment Co-op. They have very good prices and experienced staff that will help you with anything you need. For climbing equipment/training I always go through Challenges Unlimited, but they are geared more towards challenge ropes courses and artificial climbing walls.

[+sbell111]

...My first "climb" was on an expressway cut using a "Walmart" utility rope- working load 300lbs. (Walmart didn't exist then but if I said "Twin Fair" no one would know what I meant)

Ha! I was talking to my wife about Twin Fair the other day and she looked at me like I was 'gifted'.

[+bobbarley]

There are lots of professions that use harnesses. If you're looking at ascending and descending then I might suggest arborist supply companies. Big thick, more comfortable harnesses for hanging out.

Check out this stuff and look under saddles.

[+ducttape90210]

The harness i use looks like a seat belt with 2 seat belt leg loops. i like it because its light and for the most part comfortable (until you take your weight off of it (figure that out)and it stays buched up in places it shouldnt be bunched up in). one way that i have found to make your harness more confortable is to get the waist belt really tight. and leave the leg loops with a little slack (about 2 fingers should fit through) use for vertical rope only repeling and its pretty confortable.