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Micro Vs Traditional.


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OK just let me put on my asbestos suit and facemask here just in case I am out of line on this.

 

I am still young at this geocaching thing, I know. I am just starting to place caches and on occasion have found what seem to be ideal locations for a traditional cache but there is already a micro in the vicinity. Does geocaching.com allow for close proximity when one cache is a micro and one is a container? For those of you who have placed micros do you evaluate the location as especially good for a micro vs a traditional cache and plant one accordingly? Discuss :laughing:

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A micro is a standard cache and the 528' rule applies regardless of cache size.

 

As for suitability for a container...since I usually scout first and place later I tend to use a container that works for the hide. Sometimes it takes awhile to find the right container.

 

I think some people load up with film canisers and hide where they can hide regardless of what larger container might fit. Those people should stock up on severl sizes because to cover their hide method.

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I'm a newbie, but I think this is something that should be taken into account. I found a tiny micro this weekend (I haven't logged it yet) at a park where I would think a traditional could have been hidden with ease. Maybe it's part of my personal bais that a larger container should always be considered first.

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Well that didn't even raise the ambient temperature by a degree. Is it worth putting some suggestions into the general hide and seeka cache page to promote the more varied distribution of caches appropriate to the setting in which they are left?? Could that be a more awkward question?

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Does geocaching.com allow for close proximity when one cache is a micro and one is a container?

 

No, they do not.

 

Also, ditto Briansnat.

 

I find it very discouraging that too many folks prefer to place a micro over a regular. Some claim that nothing else with fit. I've found very few instances where this is really the case.

 

Hmmm... Here's a thought. Challenge the micro owner that if you can hide a regular at or near his spot--I mean within 100', well under the 528' limit--then he archives his cache allowing you the spot.

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Does geocaching.com allow for close proximity when one cache is a micro and one is a container?

 

No, they do not.

 

Also, ditto Briansnat.

 

I find it very discouraging that too many folks prefer to place a micro over a regular. Some claim that nothing else with fit. I've found very few instances where this is really the case.

 

Hmmm... Here's a thought. Challenge the micro owner that if you can hide a regular at or near his spot--I mean within 100', well under the 528' limit--then he archives his cache allowing you the spot.

 

This is 'THE ANSWER', and should be standard Geocaching protocol!

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...

Hmmm... Here's a thought. Challenge the micro owner that if you can hide a regular at or near his spot--I mean within 100', well under the 528' limit--then he archives his cache allowing you the spot.

I suspect that many that you would challenge in this manner would tell you to get bent.

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I'm a newbie, but I think this is something that should be taken into account. I found a tiny micro this weekend (I haven't logged it yet) at a park where I would think a traditional could have been hidden with ease. Maybe it's part of my personal bais that a larger container should always be considered first.

I stated that very point in this article I first published 2 years ago: Dave's Opinions on Geocache Hiding

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I think some people load up with film canisers and hide where they can hide regardless of what larger container might fit. Those people should stock up on severl sizes because to cover their hide method.

I don't think there's any question that this is the case. Problem is that these hiders might actually have to spend some money (gasp!) for their cache containers and the swag contained therein.

 

Of course the concept of spending less money in FUEL to hide fewer caches (and thus drive around town less miles), but of better quality in terms of container and/or location, would never have occurred to these same people. These people leave the house with 30 35mm containers, and by God, they're gonna place every single one of 'em that day.

 

Sigh.

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I think that cost is a red herring. On several occasions, people have bought one of my micros for $20+ after shipping. Most will not invest this much in a regular-sized cache. In fact, most regular-sized caches have zero cost because they grab the container out of the kitchen cabinet and fill it with swag from the junk drawer.

 

The determinant of a good cache is not cost or size, it's imagination.

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I think that you will also agree that it doesn't matter if there are a honking lot of micros 'saturating' an area, as long as they are imaginative. Either the view, the hide technique, or the container should be cool.

 

Of course this is true of caches of all sizes.

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I think that you will also agree that it doesn't matter if there are a honking lot of micros 'saturating' an area, as long as they are imaginative. Either the view, the hide technique, or the container should be cool.

 

Of course this is true of caches of all sizes.

Yes, I would agree. But you and I both know that Micro Spew pretty much always means a majority of unimaginative hides and/or choices of locations. NOT ALL, but a majority.

Edited by drat19
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Yes, I would agree. But you and I both know that Micro Spew pretty much always means a majority of unimaginative hides and/or choices of locations. NOT ALL, but a majority.

Sure, but micros are easy to ignore. Anyone who believes that most micros are lame and do not have fun finding them, should simply ignore all micros. This will take them back to the 'glory days' before the Spew™.

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Yes, I would agree. But you and I both know that Micro Spew pretty much always means a majority of unimaginative hides and/or choices of locations. NOT ALL, but a majority.

Sure, but micros are easy to ignore. Anyone who believes that most micros are lame and do not have fun finding them, should simply ignore all micros. This will take them back to the 'glory days' before the Spew™.

 

Great advice, as long as you don't live in one of the areas where micros are pretty much the only thing available.

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...

 

Hmmm... Here's a thought. Challenge the micro owner that if you can hide a regular at or near his spot--I mean within 100', well under the 528' limit--then he archives his cache allowing you the spot.

Does that extend to a regular challenging a small, or a large challenging a regular? Oooh, I can see the threads now... <_< Does this also mean a new stat: Challenges won, defended? :mad:

 

Of course, the 528' rule may extend well beyond the park's border ...

 

Interesting idea, though.

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Yes, I would agree. But you and I both know that Micro Spew pretty much always means a majority of unimaginative hides and/or choices of locations. NOT ALL, but a majority.

Sure, but micros are easy to ignore. Anyone who believes that most micros are lame and do not have fun finding them, should simply ignore all micros. This will take them back to the 'glory days' before the Spew™.

 

Great advice, as long as you don't live in one of the areas where micros are pretty much the only thing available.

 

If you live in an area where micros are pretty much the only thing available - you should be happy for Micro Spew. There probable weren't many caches there before. Micros have enabled many new caches to be placed where traditional size caches wouldn't have lasted. And even though I know I'm in a minority in these forums - they allow for new creative type of hides even in areas where you could have bigger caches. (I'm tired of finding ammo cans under a bush). Certainly many micro hides are un-imaginative. So are many regular sized hides. What we need is a way to encourage more imaginative type hides rather than limiting the size of containers.

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If you live in an area where micros are pretty much the only thing available - you should be happy for Micro Spew.

I respectfully disagree. Pre Micro Spew , if you needed to satisfy your caching addiction, you (GASP!) drove further! And gas prices are NOT a valid counterpoint - Geocachers as a group have disposable income by the definition of our game. Micro Spew has happened because the fundamental nature of our game has changed - people want their caches to be conveniently located now. That was not necessarily the case pre mid-'04 (my unofficial date for when it became clear to me that Micro Spew overtook the game).

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If you live in an area where micros are pretty much the only thing available - you should be happy for Micro Spew.

I respectfully disagree. Pre Micro Spew , if you needed to satisfy your caching addiction, you (GASP!) drove further! And gas prices are NOT a valid counterpoint - Geocachers as a group have disposable income by the definition of our game. Micro Spew has happened because the fundamental nature of our game has changed - people want their caches to be conveniently located now. That was not necessarily the case pre mid-'04 (my unofficial date for when it became clear to me that Micro Spew overtook the game).

 

I'll accept that. Since your unofficial date for Micro Spew I have noticed an increase of students without cars and people who don't want to spend all day on the weekend driving to find caches. A lot of people have gotten involved because there's now a cache just down the street. If you don't wan to hunt these micros you are free to get into your car and drive to where there are more regular size caches. You are also invited to hide the kind of caches you like to find and set an example. I prefer getting out of the city and going on long hikes and my hides reflect this. It doesn't bother me that other people like to drive from parking lot to parking lot to find 100 caches in a day - that's what they enjoy.

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If you don't wan to hunt these micros you are free to get into your car and drive to where there are more regular size caches.

 

Dukie and I rarely go out to find a cache these days. I read all the weekly new caches in my area on the lookout for fun outings, but they are rare. I started this for the hike. The chance to get out for a few hours and have a destination that I never had before.

 

That's all but been ruined by the quick gratification caches. It's now nearly impossible to find good quality hides that have all the elements. A nice outing, A destination that is worth reaching, an interesting hide, and a cache that is actually worth finding to look at.

 

I know there are those that seek to make numbers. All fine and dandy. But to weed out the really good caches from all the crap is no longer easy.

 

I think I've gone looking for maybe 8 caches in the past year. Ever since my Hawaii trip, I have not bothered to log the results here as I don't want to add to the numbers side of the 'game'. Instead, I write nice long entries in the logbooks (well, the caches that HAVE logbooks - what is up with the scrap paper you find now?) And I e-mail a nice thankyou to the person who placed the cache.

 

The ratings, types, and other methods of ranksing do not help those of us that are looking for the 'experience' and not the 'number'.

 

Crap Cache™ is just far too common. I only have one hide to my name. It was well thought out, well planned, and is an 'event' for those willing to find it. If only there was a way to easily search for the truly exceptional over all the junk.

 

But I've said all this before. It's like everything else in our Society. The finest things are far outnumbered by the crap.

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I guess as a Premium member, I have a hard time understanding what you are saying. I just setup pocket queries to find caches with terrain greater than 2.5 or difficulty greater than 3. I happen to like micros, but if I didn't I could filter them out too. I guess I could do more. As a premium member I could create a bookmark list of caches that are a cut above the parking lot micro. I could make it public and shared so that it would appear on the cache page of those caches and non-premium members could look at my recommendations.

 

I happen to know some of the local cachers that are into numbers. Almost every weekend they put together a caching trip. They lay out a route in a different part of So. California where they can find 50 or 60 caches in a day's outing. They have fun doing it. I've gone with them once or twice even though it is not my thing. Occasionaly, they post in the local forum encouraging people to put out more lampost and bus stop micros. Partly they do it to piss off the people who hate micros. They have fun doing that too. I wouldn't deny them their fun. There are still plenty of places I can go and find the caches I like to find.

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Great advice, as long as you don't live in one of the areas where micros are pretty much the only thing available.

I'm not familiar with such an area. I assume that it would be a huge urban area with no greenspace. I've never been to a city like this.

 

Either way, if you don't like micros, you may as well not subject yourself to them.

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I respectfully disagree. Pre Micro Spew , if you needed to satisfy your caching addiction, you (GASP!) drove further! And gas prices are NOT a valid counterpoint - Geocachers as a group have disposable income by the definition of our game. Micro Spew has happened because the fundamental nature of our game has changed - people want their caches to be conveniently located now. That was not necessarily the case pre mid-'04 (my unofficial date for when it became clear to me that Micro Spew overtook the game).

 

Dukie and I rarely go out to find a cache these days. I read all the weekly new caches in my area on the lookout for fun outings, but they are rare. I started this for the hike. The chance to get out for a few hours and have a destination that I never had before.

 

That's all but been ruined by the quick gratification caches. It's now nearly impossible to find good quality hides that have all the elements. A nice outing, A destination that is worth reaching, an interesting hide, and a cache that is actually worth finding to look at.

 

I know there are those that seek to make numbers. All fine and dandy. But to weed out the really good caches from all the crap is no longer easy. ...

You know, I personally think that this position is a cop out. Please reread Drat's post. He is right.

 

When I first started playing this game, there were only a couple of caches in my general area. If I wanted to go find a cache, I had two choices; wait until one was hidden in the area, or take a road trip.

 

'MicroSpew' hasn't changed this. If you don't like micros, exclude them from your PQs. If you like a hike, up your terrain rating. It's true that you might have to drive a few more miles to go after a cache that really jangles your chain, but that's just like it was in the old days. Nothing has really changed.

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Ice Cream Flavor Spew dates back to mid 1985 when Ben and Jerry's introduced New York Super Fudge Chunk. Since that time ice cream makers have been experimenting with unusual flavors and mix-ins much to the detriment of traditional ice cream flavors like Chocolate and Vanilla. It has gotten to the point where you can't find plain old Chocolate and Vanilla in the stores any more. Even the so called Chocolate and Vanilla have names like Swiss double chocolate and Real French Vanilla Bean. I can't get traditional ice cream where I live anymore ;)

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Ice Cream Flavor Spew dates back to mid 1985 when Ben and Jerry's introduced New York Super Fudge Chunk. Since that time ice cream makers have been experimenting with unusual flavors and mix-ins much to the detriment of traditional ice cream flavors like Chocolate and Vanilla. It has gotten to the point where you can't find plain old Chocolate and Vanilla in the stores any more. Even the so called Chocolate and Vanilla have names like Swiss double chocolate and Real French Vanilla Bean. I can't get traditional ice cream where I live anymore ;)

Point taken. The game's changed. I just don't happen to care for the changes in this case. I don't think they've changed the game for the better in any way except for giving more cachers the ability to run up their stats quicker with less effort required to do so. MY OPINION, your mileage may vary.

 

As for the Ice Cream Flavor Spew dates you cited, allow me to retort: http://tampatrib.com/baylifenews/MGBI4YYXADE.html B):DB)

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MY OPINION, your mileage may vary.

 

Just in case anyone was confused as to drat19's "opinion" about Micros, here's a shot from a search last night for a micro just off of a parking lot in some light woods:

 

274ede98-ba94-4aa4-9478-e783ca82ba85.jpg

 

Yes, the edit does take some away from it, but everyone know's his opinion anyway, it's just a great picture. :ph34r:

 

Celticwulf

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MY OPINION, your mileage may vary.

 

Just in case anyone was confused as to drat19's "opinion" about Micros, here's a shot from a search last night for a micro just off of a parking lot in some light woods:

 

274ede98-ba94-4aa4-9478-e783ca82ba85.jpg

 

Yes, the edit does take some away from it, but everyone know's his opinion anyway, it's just a great picture. :ph34r:

 

Celticwulf

Darn the "family friendly" concept anyway! When the guys wanted to get a pic of me actually participating in a search for a lame roadside micro, a smile and a finger seemed appropriate! (Oh, and the cache? Missing from the base of the bush where it had last been seen - what a great, creative hide! :ph34r: )

 

Even when you're pounding your fist at the bully pulpit of the church of No More Micro Spew , you still can't take yourself TOO seriously! ;):lol:

 

(Edit: content)

Edited by drat19
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As for suitability for a container...since I usually scout first and place later I tend to use a container that works for the hide. Sometimes it takes awhile to find the right container.

 

I think some people load up with film canisers and hide where they can hide regardless of what larger container might fit. Those people should stock up on severl sizes because to cover their hide method.

 

I couldn't have said better myself. Over the weekend I place 2 caches in one park, yes they are far enough apart, one was nano and the other a large container.

 

I have no problem with micros when they are in the right place. But don't just stick one somewhere just because you can. The same could be said of large caches as well. Plan out your caches. A bad cache is a bad cache no matter what size it is.

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I think that most folks prefer full size caches, but sometimes a micro will do wonderfully. We have a series here that we have named "Some Like It Hot", and they are all either micro or nanos hidden at coffee houses throughout the area. The idea was to bring you to somewhere to grab some "geo-fuel". Ditto for our series "Already Been Chewed", which takes you to locations of a local pizza chain, ABC Pizza. A full sized one would be a bear, and again, the idea was for you to log a smiley after a hunt at somewhere you might like to go.

 

Also, if someone asked me to remove one of these micros to place a full sized cache, "get bent" would be far too mild of a thing to say. :(

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Micro-spew TM is, like global warming, either junk science or urban myth. Discuss.

 

Micro Spew is real. There are alot of trashy micro placed for the sake of placing a mirco, not because it's good place for a micro or for a cache period. That's not to say all mirco's are crap and all non-micros are great. Because micros are so easy to make and place, many are done poorly. At the same time many non-micros are just as bad. Micros do seem to be out of control in some places. But don't blame it on micros, blame it on lazy cachers.

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OK, so I'm a newy newbie here. I'm yet to hide anyhing (or find anything for that matter) I'm still studying up on my GPSr manual and reading the "Idiot's Guide to Geocaching" (take that how you will).

 

From what I've learned in my reading it seems like the site should decide what size container you place. There are some sites in which only a micro will do. But if the site can support a larger container, I'd think that one should give serious thought to stepping up in size.

 

In terms of a site already taken, I'd contact the current cacher and see if they're interested in teaming up. Volunteer to help maintain a larger cache to replace the micro.

 

It can't hurt!

 

Driver Carries Cache

(madmike)

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I'm a newbie, but I think this is something that should be taken into account. I found a tiny micro this weekend (I haven't logged it yet) at a park where I would think a traditional could have been hidden with ease. Maybe it's part of my personal bais that a larger container should always be considered first.

 

I agree, but I guess the first person to find the spot gets to choose what type of container, I have been to spots that very easily could of had an ammo can but instead had a key holder, right now there is still so many spots to hide a cache that you can easily find another location for a hide, at least in my area.

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OK, so I'm a newy newbie here. I'm yet to hide anyhing (or find anything for that matter) I'm still studying up on my GPSr manual and reading the "Idiot's Guide to Geocaching" (take that how you will).

 

From what I've learned in my reading it seems like the site should decide what size container you place. There are some sites in which only a micro will do. But if the site can support a larger container, I'd think that one should give serious thought to stepping up in size.

 

Driver Carries Cache

(madmike)

 

Out of the mouths of 'babes', so to speak. You're dead on with that. Yet some people just want to put out a cache, any cache, anywhere. :laughing:

 

In the case at hand, it's first come, first serve. The 'misplaced' micro was there first. If you can get the owner to work with you, GREAT. Having said that most cachers that would place a 'Mirco Spew' cache won't share. Therein lays the problem. :)

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I find it very discouraging that too many folks prefer to place a micro over a regular. Some claim that nothing else with fit. I've found very few instances where this is really the case.

 

Hmmm... Here's a thought. Challenge the micro owner that if you can hide a regular at or near his spot--I mean within 100', well under the 528' limit--then he archives his cache allowing you the spot.

 

WTF? No freakin' way. Why would you do that? If the micro-hider got to the spot first, it's HIS SPOT to place whatever kind of cache HE likes there. Not whatever kind of cache YOU like.

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Does geocaching.com allow for close proximity when one cache is a micro and one is a container?

 

No, they do not.

 

Also, ditto Briansnat.

 

I find it very discouraging that too many folks prefer to place a micro over a regular. Some claim that nothing else with fit. I've found very few instances where this is really the case.

 

Hmmm... Here's a thought. Challenge the micro owner that if you can hide a regular at or near his spot--I mean within 100', well under the 528' limit--then he archives his cache allowing you the spot.

 

This is 'THE ANSWER', and should be standard Geocaching protocol!

 

This is ludicrous. What if I happen to like micros and I think all regular sized caches should be archived and replaced by micros? This insanity is getting out of control.

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If you live in an area where micros are pretty much the only thing available - you should be happy for Micro Spew.

I respectfully disagree. Pre Micro Spew , if you needed to satisfy your caching addiction, you (GASP!) drove further!

 

Guess what!!! You can STILL do that!!! Just because there are 3000 micros in your neighborhood doesn't mean you have to look for them - you can STILL drive somewhere else to find the regular and large ones. Why are you not understanding that?

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This does kind of lead into another thread I've seen on getting a quality rating on caches. There are all sorts of websites where you can rate things like resturants or take opinion polls. Maybe this feature could be added to caches? If enough people say a chache sucks it quits getting visitors and eventually a few SBA's....

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What if I happen to like micros and I think all regular sized caches should be archived and replaced by micros? This insanity is getting out of control.

 

I agree with the second quoted sentence, but probably not the way you intended.

 

To answer your query, if your micros are like the typical, non-trading micro, then your version wouldn't be caching at all, now would it? Where's the "cache" in "geocaching?" It would be "geologging."

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If you live in an area where micros are pretty much the only thing available - you should be happy for Micro Spew.

I respectfully disagree. Pre Micro Spew , if you needed to satisfy your caching addiction, you (GASP!) drove further!

 

Guess what!!! You can STILL do that!!! Just because there are 3000 micros in your neighborhood doesn't mean you have to look for them - you can STILL drive somewhere else to find the regular and large ones. Why are you not understanding that?

I do, and I do. But it sure seems like our game has become a "game of convenience" to a lot more people than used to be the case. I had one person on the Minnesota forums respond back to a civil (yes) discussion we were having on this topic with the comment, "Why should have to drive more than 5 miles to be able to cache". I was so dumbfounded I couldn't even answer.

 

I know your counterpoint: "Folks can cache however they want and it's none of your business", and in this case, that point has merit. My point is that the overall character of the game has changed, and I'm entitled to my opinion (as you are to yours) that I don't think it's a good thing in this case.

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I had one person on the Minnesota forums respond back to a civil (yes) discussion we were having on this topic with the comment, "Why should have to drive more than 5 miles to be able to cache". I was so dumbfounded I couldn't even answer.

 

Send that jerk across the boder to ND and he'll how know good he has it. There are 36 cache within 50 miles of my house, 6 of those are mine. Lazy cachers are gutting our sport. Get of your f...ing a.. and cache a..hole. If want to set on your couch then stay there and let the rest of us enjoy ourselves. I've got nothing againest mircos mind you. I've even got some of my own. But cache put put because you're too dadgum lazy to do it right is a bad cache.

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I had one person on the Minnesota forums respond back to a civil (yes) discussion we were having on this topic with the comment, "Why should have to drive more than 5 miles to be able to cache". I was so dumbfounded I couldn't even answer.

 

Send that jerk across the boder to ND and he'll how know good he has it. There are 36 cache within 50 miles of my house, 6 of those are mine. Lazy cachers are gutting our sport. Get of your f...ing a.. and cache a..hole. If want to set on your couch then stay there and let the rest of us enjoy ourselves. I've got nothing againest mircos mind you. I've even got some of my own. But cache put put because you're too dadgum lazy to do it right is a bad cache.

Easy there big fella. I agree with the spirit of your post/point (about lazy cachers), but I want to make sure we're clear on one thing: I'm a proud member of MNGCA (I've spent a majority of my Mon-Fri workweeks there for over 2 years now) and think the vast majority of cachers there are GREAT folks. My post and my point were in response to a SINGLE cacher in a SINGLE, CIVILIZED discussion on the topic. PLEASE don't let this become an MN-bashing discussion...that was NOT my intent.

Edited by drat19
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I had one person on the Minnesota forums respond back to a civil (yes) discussion we were having on this topic with the comment, "Why should have to drive more than 5 miles to be able to cache". I was so dumbfounded I couldn't even answer.

 

Send that jerk across the boder to ND and he'll how know good he has it. There are 36 cache within 50 miles of my house, 6 of those are mine. Lazy cachers are gutting our sport. Get of your f...ing a.. and cache a..hole. If want to set on your couch then stay there and let the rest of us enjoy ourselves. I've got nothing againest mircos mind you. I've even got some of my own. But cache put put because you're too dadgum lazy to do it right is a bad cache.

Easy there big fella. I agree with the spirit of your post/point, but I want to make sure we're clear on one thing: I'm a proud member of MNGCA (I've spent a majority of my Mon-Fri workweeks there for over 2 years now) and think the vast majority of cachers there are GREAT folks. My post and my point were in response to a SINGLE cacher in a SINGLE, CIVILIZED discussion on the topic. PLEASE don't let this become an MN-bashing discussion...that was NOT my intent.

 

Not my intent, sorry. :)

 

I would agree with what say about MN cachers. I've done some caching there and had some of your members over here. Anything that helps the sport is great. It just gets my goat when people like the one you mentioned would rather have lots of poor caches that a few good ones. :laughing:

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I had one person on the Minnesota forums respond back to a civil (yes) discussion we were having on this topic with the comment, "Why should have to drive more than 5 miles to be able to cache". I was so dumbfounded I couldn't even answer.

 

Send that jerk across the boder to ND and he'll how know good he has it. There are 36 cache within 50 miles of my house, 6 of those are mine. Lazy cachers are gutting our sport. Get of your f...ing a.. and cache a..hole. If want to set on your couch then stay there and let the rest of us enjoy ourselves. I've got nothing againest mircos mind you. I've even got some of my own. But cache put put because you're too dadgum lazy to do it right is a bad cache.

Easy there big fella. I agree with the spirit of your post/point, but I want to make sure we're clear on one thing: I'm a proud member of MNGCA (I've spent a majority of my Mon-Fri workweeks there for over 2 years now) and think the vast majority of cachers there are GREAT folks. My post and my point were in response to a SINGLE cacher in a SINGLE, CIVILIZED discussion on the topic. PLEASE don't let this become an MN-bashing discussion...that was NOT my intent.

 

Not my intent, sorry. :)

 

I would agree with what say about MN cachers. I've done some caching there and had some of your members over here. Anything that helps the sport is great. It just gets my goat when people like the one you mentioned would rather have lots of poor caches that a few good ones. :laughing:

Thanks. :huh:

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Yes, I would agree. But you and I both know that Micro Spew pretty much always means a majority of unimaginative hides and/or choices of locations. NOT ALL, but a majority.

Sure, but micros are easy to ignore. Anyone who believes that most micros are lame and do not have fun finding them, should simply ignore all micros. This will take them back to the 'glory days' before the Spew™.

 

LOL yeah then it was a tupperware under a bush

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