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What’s Going On Here? 2


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Pocket caches? From this event cache:

 

Keeping in the tradition of other caching events, I am sure there will be plenty of Pocket Caches...in which you will have to walk up to fellow cachers and ask them "Is that a cache in your Pocket or are You just Happy to see Me?...

 

This has people logging finds on old archived caches, like this, or this.

 

Does anyone just go out and find geocaches anymore, or has the game devolved into discovering easier and lazier ways to pretend you did?

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Does anyone just go out and find geocaches anymore, or has the game devolved into discovering easier and lazier ways to pretend you did?

 

That 'devolvement' happened years ago.

 

Now, get out there and go find a cache!

Why bother? "Finding" them seems irrelevant. :shocked:

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Pocket caches? From

Keeping in the tradition of other caching events, I am sure there will be plenty of Pocket Caches...in which you will have to walk up to fellow cachers and ask them "Is that a cache in your Pocket or are You just Happy to see Me?...

 

Given all the threads on "pickle parks", I'd be very afraid to ask this of someone walking around a park! You might get more of a "cache" than you bargained for. ;):shocked:

 

P.S. Yes, I think this is a very cheap number grab. If you want this as a "game" at your event, cool (I guess), but why require a smilie for it? It was part of the event...just enjoy the event!

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Does anyone just go out and find geocaches anymore, or has the game devolved into discovering easier and lazier ways to pretend you did?

 

That 'devolvement' happened years ago.

 

Now, get out there and go find a cache!

Why bother? "Finding" them seems irrelevant. :shocked:

 

It's just a game. How someone else plays really doesn't have any bearing on how you play as there doesn't appear to be any blood loss.

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Does anyone just go out and find geocaches anymore, or has the game devolved into discovering easier and lazier ways to pretend you did?

 

That 'devolvement' happened years ago.

 

Now, get out there and go find a cache!

Why bother? "Finding" them seems irrelevant. :shocked:

 

It's just a game. How someone else plays really doesn't have any bearing on how you play as there doesn't appear to be any blood loss.

 

As long as my archived caches aren't being hijacked to become pocket caches. TPTB need to work on a feature that locks an archived cache from being found, while still allowing notes to be posted.

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How someone else plays really doesn't have any bearing on how you play as there doesn't appear to be any blood loss.

 

You could say "...in my opinion this activity should not have any bearing..."

 

But you can't say"...does not..." with any authority.

 

It does have an affect on people when others get too creative with logging finds. I am not a purist about find logs. In my opinion every cacher can have a few finds outside the norm but this is too far outside for me. Using archived caches to log the pocket finds implies that the event host knew this would not be an acceptable cache to gc.com.

Edited by Team Sagefox
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TPTB need to work on a feature that locks an archived cache from being found, while still allowing notes to be posted.

 

This might not be a good thing. Some people log finds well after the find date for many reasons. Sometimes up to a year later.

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Does anyone just go out and find geocaches anymore, or has the game devolved into discovering easier and lazier ways to pretend you did?

 

Apparently you were sleeping when the point of the sport changed from finding caches to accumulating smileys.

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TPTB need to work on a feature that locks an archived cache from being found, while still allowing notes to be posted.

 

This might not be a good thing. Some people log finds well after the find date for many reasons. Sometimes up to a year later.

 

I agree that "locking" an archived cache from being logged as "found" is a BAD idea. Personally I've found, and subsequently, logged two caches that were archived by the owner. Apparently they had gone unfound (and logged as DNF) for some time. The owners just archived them without checking on them or removing them. :shocked:

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Apparently you were sleeping when the point of the sport changed from finding caches to accumulating smileys.

 

According to this article it is only a matter of time before Geocaching.com will get a stop and desist order to not a award smileys for finds (except perhaps for lampost hides in Wal*Mart parking lots)

Edited by tozainamboku
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Pocket caches? From this event cache:

 

Keeping in the tradition of other caching events, I am sure there will be plenty of Pocket Caches...in which you will have to walk up to fellow cachers and ask them "Is that a cache in your Pocket or are You just Happy to see Me?...

 

This has people logging finds on old archived caches, like this, or this.

 

Does anyone just go out and find geocaches anymore, or has the game devolved into discovering easier and lazier ways to pretend you did?

 

Took me a minute to figure out what you were getting at Criminal. This is as bad as logging multiple temporary caches as finds on a single event cache page! :shocked: Heck, i'll ask again,,, What's going on here? ;)

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TPTB need to work on a feature that locks an archived cache from being found, while still allowing notes to be posted.

 

This might not be a good thing. Some people log finds well after the find date for many reasons. Sometimes up to a year later.

 

That is fine. I can think of two things that can be done.

1) The owner just lifts the lock long enough for the late logger to log the cache as found.

2) The lock would only disallow found it logs after the archiving date. Any found it logs with dates before the archiving would still be accepted.

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Some people cheat at solitaire, too.

Mollymommy

 

Cheating with your own deck of cards is one thing. Cheating with my deck is another.

 

If someone wants to pad their stats they can create their own cache page and log as many finds it as they want. They don't have to use others people caches for that.

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Some people cheat at solitaire, too.

Mollymommy

 

Cheating with your own deck of cards is one thing. Cheating with my deck is another.

 

If someone wants to pad their stats they can create their own cache page and log as many finds it as they want. They don't have to use others people caches for that.

 

If I feel comfortable logging a find I do it. Then I report that on my Truth In Numbers section of my profile, so that Glenn and the others for whom the numbers are important can apply whatever corrections they want.

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Pocket caches? From this event cache:

 

Keeping in the tradition of other caching events, I am sure there will be plenty of Pocket Caches...in which you will have to walk up to fellow cachers and ask them "Is that a cache in your Pocket or are You just Happy to see Me?...

 

This has people logging finds on old archived caches, like this, or this.

 

Does anyone just go out and find geocaches anymore, or has the game devolved into discovering easier and lazier ways to pretend you did?

 

Being the cache owners that you are talking about I thought this needs addressing.... We set up pocket caches for geocachers that come to the event to get out of there own little clicks. This is the best way to get newbies to meet and talk to others that usually they would not get to meet and talk to others. This is a personal preference on logging pocket caches and you as a individual has a choice to log or not log them.

 

We had over 100 gecaching teams at the event and everyone had a blast! And that's all that matters!

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since everyone is giving their opinion on pocket caches here's mine.

 

the sport is evolving, so are the caches. I'll bet that when GC started virtuals, locationless, and earthcaches were not an option. Don't know, just guessing. You may be correct in saying there is no sport in pocket caches, you may also be correct in saying the same thing for virtuals, webcams, and events.

 

Someone said in this thread that they didn't want their archived cache hijacked. PC's are not other people's caches. I have a PC that I take with me everytime I go caching. It is my cache. it is archived but I would also use one that wasn't if I was so inclined. If you don't want to "find" the PC, then don't.

 

I would love GC to make another catagory for PC's. That way people can look at them like they do the other "untraditional" caches.

 

One final parting shot. Since almost everyone likes to look at the profiles of all the people in the thread, I did the same. With VERY few exceptions, everyone who has commented on this has logged virtuals and locationless caches with others having those and earthcaches and events. There were a few purists but to the rest I ask: What is the difference?

 

anyway, I don't mean any disrespect to anyone, especially the more experienced cachers.

 

Erik

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Being the cache owners that you are talking about I thought this needs addressing.... We set up pocket caches for geocachers that come to the event to get out of there own little clicks. This is the best way to get newbies to meet and talk to others that usually they would not get to meet and talk to others. This is a personal preference on logging pocket caches and you as a individual has a choice to log or not log them.

The best way to motivate a new player is to teach them to falsify finds? You cannot be serious.

We had over 100 gecaching teams at the event and everyone had a blast! And that's all that matters!

What about integrity, does that matter? When you select “Found it” from the drop-down list, you are saying you have found that cache. Logging a cache, active or archived, that you certainly did not find is telling a lie.

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I too and getting confused at some of the stupid(personal opinion of course) stuff like this that I find when looking for caches to go hunt. Seems like I spend more time saying to myself-no way this got approved, then I do finding a cache worth looking for. I signed up for a TerraCaching account after pulling my hair out trying to find a cache that I wouldn't walk away from in disappointment at the lack of creativity/challenge/original thought involved/fill in your reason here. I'll still hit this site for cheap thrills and benchmarks, but I'm going to swim in a different pool for awhile. Flame at will.

 

edit for grammar

Edited by hikergps
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One final parting shot. Since almost everyone likes to look at the profiles of all the people in the thread, I did the same. With VERY few exceptions, everyone who has commented on this has logged virtuals and locationless caches with others having those and earthcaches and events. There were a few purists but to the rest I ask: What is the difference?

 

Erik

 

The difference is that the virtuals, locationless and earthcaches were appropriately listed by gc.com. Your pocket caches could not be approved so you are using archived caches to post finds. Your pocket caches are not geocaches and therefore should not be logged on gc.com.

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Pocket caches? From this event cache:

 

Keeping in the tradition of other caching events, I am sure there will be plenty of Pocket Caches...in which you will have to walk up to fellow cachers and ask them "Is that a cache in your Pocket or are You just Happy to see Me?...

 

This has people logging finds on old archived caches, like this, or this.

 

Does anyone just go out and find geocaches anymore, or has the game devolved into discovering easier and lazier ways to pretend you did?

 

Being the cache owners that you are talking about I thought this needs addressing.... We set up pocket caches for geocachers that come to the event to get out of there own little clicks. This is the best way to get newbies to meet and talk to others that usually they would not get to meet and talk to others. This is a personal preference on logging pocket caches and you as a individual has a choice to log or not log them.

 

We had over 100 gecaching teams at the event and everyone had a blast! And that's all that matters!

 

I could easily see myself looking at one of those caches that Criminal linked to and thinking, "Gee, the cache is archived, but with all those finds, it must be there" and wasting my time and gas looking for it. I'd be pretty ticked off to find the cache is gone and I wasted my time thanks to a group of people who have perverted this sport with their new little game.

 

How about we use the cache logs for what they were designed for and that's reporting finds and DNFs on geocaches. There are many other ways to encourage people to meet at events that don't promote rampant cheating and these extralegal caches.

Edited by briansnat
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I could easily see myself looking at one of those caches that Criminal linked to and thinking, "Gee, the cache is archived, but with all those finds, it must be there" and wasting my time and gas looking for it. I'd be pretty ticked off to find the cache is gone and I wasted my time thanks to a group of people who have perverted this sport with their new little game.

 

How about we use the cache logs for what they were designed for and that's reporting finds and DNFs on geocaches. There are many other ways to encourage people to meet at events that don't promote rampant cheating and these extralegal caches.

 

Wait, wait just a second. Stop everything. I actually agree with you on this one.

Just what's going on here?

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This is unreal. I can only shake my head and wonder just what the heck is this sport coming to.

 

Recently, in frustration at the sub-culture of geocoin enthusiasts that bring their collection of coins to meets and let folks "find" the coin, I quipped that maybe I should bring some of our caches to events so folks can log them, too.

 

I thought the action would show how ridiculous the practice was.

 

Apparently not.

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Additionally, isn't an archived "pocket cache" that is still in play against the rules? Would a pocket cache itself be against the rules?

 

Specifically, the rule violated would be the one that prohibits caches where you must do something extra that is not listed on the cache page. I'm not sure of the specifics, but the gist is to prevent folks from having to email the owner for further details. Sounds kinda like the same if you have to ask the owner for the cache.

 

The examples provided in an above post are listed as traditionals. It's obvious they are not. They travel and they are not at the listed coordinates.

 

Shouldn't these be locked down?

Edited by CoyoteRed
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Additionally, isn't an archived "pocket cache" that is still in play against the rules? Would a pocket cache itself be against the rules?

 

Specifically, the rule violated would be the one that prohibits caches where you must do something extra that is not listed on the cache page. I'm not sure of the specifics, but the gist is to prevent folks from having to email the owner for further details. Sounds kinda like the same if you have to ask the owner for the cache.

 

The examples provided in an above post are listed as traditionals. It's obvious they are not. They travel and they are not at the listed coordinates.

 

Shouldn't these be locked down?

 

It certainly appears to be a way to get around the guidelines regarding temporary (and possibly moving) caches. I guarantee if they were submitted for review they would not be published. Hey, that could be a new way to beat the system.

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Additionally, isn't an archived "pocket cache" that is still in play against the rules? Would a pocket cache itself be against the rules?

 

Specifically, the rule violated would be the one that prohibits caches where you must do something extra that is not listed on the cache page. I'm not sure of the specifics, but the gist is to prevent folks from having to email the owner for further details. Sounds kinda like the same if you have to ask the owner for the cache.

 

The examples provided in an above post are listed as traditionals. It's obvious they are not. They travel and they are not at the listed coordinates.

 

Shouldn't these be locked down?

 

It certainly appears to be a way to get around the guidelines regarding temporary (and possibly moving) caches. I guarantee if they were submitted for review they would not be published. Hey, that could be a new way to beat the system.

First let me state for the record that you'll find no pocket caches or event caches for that matter in my list of finds, but I do occasionally cheat at solitaire...

 

But really, who cares if people pull this crap. We all know they're only cheating themselves. The only thing it does is pad their stats, and who cares about that anyway. I mean, if it's about the hunt, not the smiley, who cares about cheating number Hos. If there were some perks for making the 1K club, then it'd be another story.

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Pocket caches? From this event cache:

 

Keeping in the tradition of other caching events, I am sure there will be plenty of Pocket Caches...in which you will have to walk up to fellow cachers and ask them "Is that a cache in your Pocket or are You just Happy to see Me?...

 

This has people logging finds on old archived caches, like this, or this.

 

Does anyone just go out and find geocaches anymore, or has the game devolved into discovering easier and lazier ways to pretend you did?

 

Actually the couple pocket caches I've seen at events were supposed to be logged in whatever manner was used for the rest of the non gc.com listed temps. (which is currently to log them all on an nearby active regular cache (with the owners approval of course). this is apperently so the person's stats have that many 'finds' not 'events) The only upside I see is at least a pocket cache means actually finding something... unlike a 'retirement card/event' :) .

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But really, who cares if people pull this crap. We all know they're only cheating themselves. The only thing it does is pad their stats, and who cares about that anyway. I mean, if it's about the hunt, not the smiley, who cares about cheating number Hos. If there were some perks for making the 1K club, then it'd be another story.

 

If someone's lying about finding a cache causes me to waste my time and gas looking for it, I care, a lot. I was already a victim of that. I pulled up a few cache pages, discarded the ones without recent finds and set out for an afternoon of geocaching. One of the group was a bit further away, so I saved it for last. My wife and I searched quite a while and when I came home to post a DNF and read the most recent logs, they were of the "Cache is missing, but I'm logging a find" variety. Yeah, thanks. Waste my time so you can get a freakin' smiley. Sure, I guess it was my fault for not reading the logs and making the assumption that my fellow geocachers were honest.

 

I know of another geocacher who was tricked into 100 mile RT drive because someone posted a phony find on a cache on his watch list.

 

Harmless fun. Ha, ha, ha.

Edited by briansnat
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Here's the crux. The puritans are correct:

  1. You only find a cache if you found it and signed the log
  2. Caches either meet certain guidelines and are listed on GC.com or they are not listed on GC.com
  3. Logging multiple finds on a cache online, or logging a find on an archived cache you didn't actually find, so that your GC.com find count includes caches you found but are not listed on GC.com is cheesy.

The problem is that the smiley count says "Caches found". It would be more honest if it said "Number of Found logs logged online". I also agree with CR that the importance some people place on their smiley count as opposed to the importance they give to going and actually finding a cache has lead to some pretty cheesy things being done. However, I think the most important thing is to be having fun. If some people have fun pumping up their numbers or logging geocoins at events to get an icon, I will let them. I personally have fun reading the forums to see how upset people get when other people do cheesy things in order to have fun.

Edited by tozainamboku
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I paddled 4 miles with my son and wife today to find a cache...it was a beautiful day, the sun was out, the rain yesterday scrubbed the air pristinely clean, the cache was in great shape...we had a ton of fun.

 

The activities of a bunch of cheaters didn't effect my enjoyment of our caching expedition in the least.

 

If looking for, and finding out about, how people cheat at this game we play upsets you...don't go looking...

 

Jamie - NFA

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If looking for, and finding out about, how people cheat at this game we play upsets you...don't go looking...

 

Jamie - NFA

 

Yeah, I guess you can say that about Barry Bonds, Milli Vanilli, Rosie Ruiz, Jayson Blair, et. al. Why should anybody care?

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I was really happy to get my 100 a week or two ago. I started reading this thread and started really thinking about my PC's and how much importance I was puting on my smiley count. I spoke privately with a cacher that I respect for his integrity(as far as caching goes anyway) and my thinking has changed.

 

I tell you the following not to toot my own horn or pat myself on the back because I don't need a forum to do that. But I want my integrity to mean something and I don't ever want to be accused of being a hypocrite.

 

I have deleted all of my finds that were Pocket Caches. I lost 13 "finds" and now am back below 100. But I think I am more proud of my 91 than I would ever be with my 104 now knowing what I know.

 

The other reason I wrote this is because of the defense post I wrote for PC's earlier.

 

anyway,

 

Erik

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But really, who cares if people pull this crap. We all know they're only cheating themselves. The only thing it does is pad their stats, and who cares about that anyway. I mean, if it's about the hunt, not the smiley, who cares about cheating number Hos. If there were some perks for making the 1K club, then it'd be another story.

 

If someone's lying about finding a cache causes me to waste my time and gas looking for it, I care, a lot. I was already a victim of that. I pulled up a few cache pages, discarded the ones without recent finds and set out for an afternoon of geocaching. One of the group was a bit further away, so I saved it for last. My wife and I searched quite a while and when I came home to post a DNF and read the most recent logs, they were of the "Cache is missing, but I'm logging a find" variety. Yeah, thanks. Waste my time so you can get a freakin' smiley. Sure, I guess it was my fault for not reading the logs and making the assumption that my fellow geocachers were honest.

 

I know of another geocacher who was tricked into 100 mile RT drive because someone posted a phony find on a cache on his watch list.

 

Harmless fun. Ha, ha, ha.

oops. I guess I didn't understand the whole concept of PCs. I assumed they were listed separately. That is pretty crappy, and I understand your contempt.

 

Well, it wasn't the first time nor will it be the last time I go off half-cocked...

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<snip>

One final parting shot. Since almost everyone likes to look at the profiles of all the people in the thread, I did the same. With VERY few exceptions, everyone who has commented on this has logged virtuals and locationless caches with others having those and earthcaches and events. There were a few purists but to the rest I ask: What is the difference?

<snip>

You are correct. I've never found a pocket cache. So I can't speak from experience. If someone would be kind enough to let me "find" their pocket cache then I would better understand this business of logging finds on archived cache pages.

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Does anyone just go out and find geocaches anymore, or has the game devolved into discovering easier and lazier ways to pretend you did?

 

I don't like it. It seems to make the find count seem less valid.

 

But with that being said, I would like to announce a new business I am starting. For a small fee, I will go to any cache and log someone else's username in it. If you are unable to visit a cache, but would like to log it as a "find", just send the GC# and your credit card #, and I will write your name in the logbook. Prices range from $20 to $20,000....... :)

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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For all those that take the attitude towards finds like these of "who cares", "it doesn't affect me" or "just ignore it if you don't like it", you can make the comparison to hookers, pimps and drug dealers standing on the street corners or that crappy run down area of town you tend to avoid. "It's not my thing so who cares". I disagree. It's cheap and tawdry and not the way the game was meant to be played. When I hear pocket caches I get a vision of some shady looking guy with greased back hair in a seedy bar sliding up to me asking if I want a good deal on a wristwatch. Thanks, no. It's an integrity thing.

 

Your find count does affect me in that the number is a relative comparison of finds. It assumes that we did roughly the same activities to reach the numbers we have. Most cachers have a few virtuals, a few locationless, a few events, etc, but the vast majority of the numbers usually involves pulling a hidden container out of somewhere that you had to travel to and look for. Whatever your total, our numbers are probably reasonably proportionally the same, so we can compare apples to apples. That's the purpose of numbers. To compare to other numbers. Otherwise they would have no meaning. So when I start to hear about what basically amounts to fake finds it doesn't make me happy. It just cheapens the game. And I know the response, "Quit griping and [insert smiley face] get out and find some caches!" However, if something isn't right, it ought to get pointed out and corrected. I applaud Criminal for doing so. There is a social aspect to geocaching, it isn't just limited to finding caches. So by ignoring "finds" like these, it eventually does change the very nature of The Game. "Wow, you have a thousand finds you say? How many of them did you actually go out and find something? Me? Most of mine I just come to events like this and sign logs all day. Sure gets those ol' numbers up"

 

As someone very astutely pointed out previously in response to virtuals, locationless, events and webcams not being actual finds, these are all sanctioned as legitimate by gc.com and have valid purposes. Pocket caches don't.

 

So who cares? I do. It's an integrity thing.

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For all those that take the attitude towards finds like these of "who cares", "it doesn't affect me" or "just ignore it if you don't like it", you can make the comparison to hookers, pimps and drug dealers standing on the street corners or that crappy run down area of town you tend to avoid.

 

It's a common occurance these days. In other words, if it doesn't affect me, it's none of my business. Who am I to say what is right or wrong? Everyone has there own morality. If something is against the rules, it's against the rules. I get so tired of people trying to make a wrong into a right.

 

ITS CHEATING! ITS AGAINST THE RULES!

 

IT SHOULD BE PUNISHABLE BY DEATH (oh wait, maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here :) )

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ITS CHEATING! ITS AGAINST THE RULES!

 

Since there really aren't rules here, it may not be against any rules, but I do wonder why people feel its perfectly OK to use Geocaching.com's server space to store logs for caches that are not listed on this site.

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If looking for, and finding out about, how people cheat at this game we play upsets you...don't go looking...

 

Jamie - NFA

 

Yeah, I guess you can say that about Barry Bonds, Milli Vanilli, Rosie Ruiz, Jayson Blair, et. al. Why should anybody care?

 

2 thoughts...

 

1) geocaching is a fun pastime, not professional baseball, where careers and multi-million dollar awards and endorsements are at stake...also, what Barry Bonds and Milli Vanilli did was illegal, inflating your smiley count is not.

 

2) I didn't say that I don't care, or that you (or Criminal) shouldn't care...I suggested that if it bothers him as much as it seems to (he seems to spend an awful lot of time watching how other people play the game), that he should not go looking for trouble as much.

 

I don't approve of pocket caches, or other methods of boosting numbers outside of finding caches, but I'm not going to end the practice by whining about it in the forum.

 

I don't approve of people turning without using their signals, but I don't drive around looking for instances of this behavior and/or post repetitively about it in the driving safety forum.

 

Happy Monday!

 

Jamie - NFA

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since everyone is giving their opinion on pocket caches here's mine.

 

the sport is evolving, so are the caches. I'll bet that when GC started virtuals, locationless, and earthcaches were not an option. Don't know, just guessing.

 

The sport is evolving?!?!? Interesting that all the examples you used were all banished to Waymarking.com

 

There has been some evolution but this site is more of a "creationist" site rather than the "evolution theory". :laughing:

 

Actually, I believe that the sport, like all activities, has to evolve to remain vital and I wish there was more of it allowed. At the same time, it must stay true to its basic tenants or the activity is no longer the activity. I don't think pocket caches belong. With or without a container (that's another discussion), the activity is based on whether people can use a GPS and coordinates to find a spot on the earth. PCs don't really seem to fit that.

 

JDandDD

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Whine? I don’t see any post where anyone has whined about this practice. I had never heard (or even imagined) that such a thing was going on. I asked for explanation. If that’s what you call whining then I feel sorry for your children. Nevertheless, I had hoped someone from the ‘cheating is OK’ side of the issue would explain or provide some confident support for their view. This is a forum after all, it is a place to discuss things. So far, the only defense offered is the same defense proffered up whenever someone feels guilty about their actions:

1. You shouldn’t worry, it doesn’t affect you. (Lighten up…yeah, good one.)

2. You should cache more and/or post less.

3. It’s all fun no matter how you play the game.

4. You shouldn’t go looking for trouble. (What makes you think I have to look?)

 

None of those weak arguments address the issue, instead, they attempt to distract us from what we’re talking about.

 

How can someone justify claiming a find on something they clearly did not?

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