Popularity Filter

[+Black Dog Trackers]

The site still says "BETA" so it seems that it's time to discuss the popularity filter.

 

Most of the categories are set at 100%, presumably because no one voted on them either way. I guess that's the automatic start-up value. Does that mean they are 100% popular? What does the concept of "100% popular" really mean? The starting level of 100% makes the popularity filter seem to be more of a dislike-filter or even a hate filter.

 

How does it work? Let's say a category is new and therefore set at 100%. One person votes 'down' on it. What is the % then? The sample size is not shown. (The sample size is this example is 1, since only 1 person voted.) Is the popularity now (after 1 person voted 'down') 50% or 99% or what? If 2 people vote 'up' and then 1 votes 'down', what is the popularity % then? What does a popularity of 25% mean in terms of up/down?

 

In Waymarking the concept of 'popularity' could be measured by many different things (hypothetical examples included):

1. The category has a lot of waymarks.

2. The category has a lot of logs. (This is what I originally thought the popularity filter was based on.)

3. The category's current rate of new waymarks.

4. The category's current rate of new logs.

5. The number of different people making waymarks in it.

6. The number of different people making logs in it.

7. The number of times per day people look at waymarks in the category, perhaps to decide whether or not to visit them.

8. The number of people that like/dislike the way the category is managed. (You declined my waymark, so I voted your category 'down'.)

9. The number of people that like/dislike the Waymarking and/or logging requirements. (I don't like all these questions!) (I vote 'down' on all categories I find that require photos.) (.. or those that don't.)

10. The number of people that like/dislike the category's item. (I love waterfalls. I hate firehouses.)

11. The number of people voting on the category.

 

Currently the directory will show, by choice, just 2 statistics by category - the largest (#1), and most popular (the popularity filter value). It would be really cool to add more choices: #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7 and maybe even #11 !

 

When you decide you want to use the popularity filter, you really have no idea what you're using. For category X, all the votes could be because of #8 or because of #10. What would you be looking for in terms of popularity if you wanted to use the filter? Perhaps #1 or #2?

 

Does anyone have their filter usually set at a number other than 100%? If so, why?

 

A new category with zero waymarks and zero logs is automatically listed as 100% popular. What if it isn't new and instead 5 years old and no one has ever waymarked or logged or voted on it and it is still 100%. What's so 100% popular about it?

 

From what I recall, TPTB (and some members who want to see one or more categories go away) want to use the popularity filter to have as a criteria (5% or some number) to get rid of categories. If this is important, then the popularity filter voting process should have an explanation window that pops up or something saying the filter is just for #10 above (or is it #8, #9 and #10, or only #8 and #10, I don't know). Instead there's just a "Vote" box with arrows.

 

What's a bad category that should be 'gotten rid of'/archived; bad items (#10), or bad management (#8 and/or #9)?. What if it's #8 or #9 (you can't tell if that's why it was voted down, of course ), should a badly managed category be archived or should the management be dealt with in some way and the waymarks and logs kept?

 

The usual implication of what the popularity filter is for is quite different though, I think. It is presented as a way of filtering out 'junk categories' so that one can spend time only Waymarking or logging in or visiting popular categories. Is this a realistically useful feature? For instance, if you're vacationing to Phoenix or Cairo, would you really set your popularity filter to 60%, for instance? I think it would be a major error to not have it set to 100%!

 

In my opinion, if I were to be selective about what I would want to waymark or log, I would much prefer to use a list, like the current "My Favorites", and only see those categories if I switch such a filter feature to 'on'. The trouble is, a new category could come along that I'd like, so I'd have to be vigilant about maintaining my Favorites list!

 

I'm all for having useful measures, but I'm wondering if the popularity filter is doing its intended job OK as is, or whether the whole concept (or presentation) needs to be re-thought somehow.

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

I dislike the popularity filter myself. The preset filter for non premium members is 50%, so if my categories drop below that, and they might since they dont have a lot of waymarks in them, then that is a large group of people unable to log my categories. I dont use the popularity filter. I want to see 100% of the categories I like and ignore the ones I dont care for. The popularity filter wont guarantee I will see all of the ones I like unless I leave it at 100%. I would rather see an ignore list for categories than have this popularity filter.

 

I dont like the idea of removing "bad categories". Who decides that? What if there are 5 people who love a category and the rest dont like it? Does it get removed because the rest cant just ignore it? Why spoil the fun of the 5 who like the category?

Edited May 6, 2006 by Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking

[+Razak]

I dont like the idea of removing "bad categories". Who decides that? What if there are 5 people who love a category and the rest dont like it? Does it get removed because the rest cant just ignore it? Why spoil the fun of the 5 who like the category?

 

Well it isn't removed, it just becomes unviewable to those who don't shell out $3 a month... It's sort of Groundspeak's way of creating the premium geocaches automatically. I thought it used to be 30% anyway... if they did up it to 50 I'm glad, I think the idea is good, I'm not sure about the execution or what not... I always vote on the ones I like, rarely vote on ones I dislike... usually just vote for like and hate, the dislikes are caught in the middle so will likely have a decent grade for the most part.

[+The Blue Quasar]

I don't like the Popularity Filter concept since I judge things for myself. Mine is set at 100%. I can decide for myself what is of interest to me, not the general population.

 

I try to think of of this would work on the Geocaching side....

 

Where would "Micros" fit in the percentages? How about "Virtuals"?

 

Would they have to cross-referrence... "47% of Geocachers like Regular Sized containers used for Multi-Caches that have a Terrain and/or Difficulty of 3 or higher." ?

 

Okay that is obviously excessive...

 

Still, Filters would be very arbitrary in Geocaching, as they are here... and that's why I don't use them.

 

It was a nice idea, POP FILTERS, but as an application I don't see a need for it.

 

The Blue Quasar

[Wintertime]

I would like more explanation of the popularity voting process, too, either in the Waymarking FAQ or on the voting page.

 

As a Waymarking.com participant, I'd like to know what the valid reasons are for me voting a category up or down.

 

As a category owner, I'd like to know how many people have actually voted on my category. For example, it would only take a handful of people to affect the popularity index of a category that's new and hasn't had many visitors yet. There's a big difference between the current rating being based on five votes, 50, or 500. I don't see anywhere that I can view that number.

 

Patty

[+ChapterhouseInc]

i have my filter set to 100% so that i can see all the categories.

 

i vote up on any category that i want to find/visit (adding immediate knowledge to my favorites).

 

i do not vote on other categories.

 

i believe that categories start at 100%. voting yes cannot make it any higher. and it is not clear how voting no lowers the %.

 

it seems that categories would start at 0. obviously the group should vote yes on it, giving at least 3 yesses. then if i vote no the rating would be 75%.

 

yes, more stastics need to be gathered and available for us to view. BDT has made some very good suggestions. we will have to see how it pans out....

[Wintertime]

Just bumping this up to see whether anyone at Groundspeak might be able to give us more information about how the popularity ratings work.

 

Patty

[+silverquill]

I don't like the Popularity Filter concept since I judge things for myself. Mine is set at 100%. I can decide for myself what is of interest to me, not the general population.

 

EXACTLY!

 

I see absolutely no use for the popularity ratings or filters.

Is it just a ploy by Groundspeak to ge people to become premium members so they can view ALL categories?

 

If someone really wants to avoid viewing some categories, for whatever reason, there ought to be a better way.

 

Popularity is such a vague thing as has been pointed out. Then, if we have no idea just how this system actually works, it becomes even more meaningless, hence less helpful. Does it really generate anything useful?

 

My suggestion is just to eliminate it altogether

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

Right, popularity filter is meaningless to me too.

 

Instead, why not make a feature for premium members be an ability to ignore the categories we dont like individually.

[OpinioNate]

Just bumping this up to see whether anyone at Groundspeak might be able to give us more information about how the popularity ratings work.

 

Patty

 

How do they work? Poorly. But all joking aside...

 

i believe that categories start at 100%. voting yes cannot make it any higher. and it is not clear how voting no lowers the %.

 

it seems that categories would start at 0. obviously the group should vote yes on it, giving at least 3 yesses. then if i vote no the rating would be 75%.

 

...is how they work right now. When the popularity filter was devised the idea was to filter out categories that only appealed to a small percentage of waymarkers. This way, niche categories could still exist for a small group of enthusiasts without sacrificing quality of the site. If a few people really wanted to have a category like "Sewage Treatment Plants" they could create Premium Memberships to exist in a little corner of the Waymarking world (since most likely that category would be downgraded past the basic member threshold) without cluttering up the directory for everyone else.

 

Unfortunately, the filter calculations do not account for the number of waymarks a cat has, amount of logging that goes on, or difficulty in finding waymarks to submit. In addition, some older categories have a headstart that puts newer categories at a disadvantage.

 

Sean and I are discussing a complete overhaul of the pop filter so that it is actually meaningful. The suggestions in this thread are very helpful, especially BDP's breakdown in the OP.

[+ChapterhouseInc]

 

Sean and I are discussing a complete overhaul of the pop filter so that it is actually meaningful. The suggestions in this thread are very helpful, especially BDP's breakdown in the OP.

 

can the already cast votes be kept this time? the last time, we had to revote.

 

and can there be some icon next to the category names, meaning that i have voted (up/down) on that one?