Rattlesnakes In Caches

[Nosmo]

Somewhere on this site should be posted the dangers of reaching into piles of rocks or holes in the ground.

 

I was in Henry Coe State Park in California last weekend and sat on a large rock to eat lunch. Afterward I glanced over it and saw a rattlesnake peering out of a jumble of rocks. When I went around I saw that its body was coiled around a plastic cache container.

 

Kids looking for this cache may not have noticed the snake in their excitement of 'the find'!

 

Regards,

 

Nosmo

[+Team Neos]

Somewhere on this site should be posted the dangers of ...

You are going to get a lot of varied responses to this post. The bottom line will no doubt be:

1) this function of this site is to list geocaches

2) safety issues, whether they pertain generalized outdoor hazards, urban considerations, or safety while driving/hiking to and from caches, as well as computer security issues, are the personal responsibility of the cachers involved

3) in the case of minors, that responsibility also resides with their parent or gaurdian

4) there is no way in the world you could ever effectively warn every person about every potential hazard they may encounter during their lifetime

 

I would like to add that I am glad that you were not harmed in this episode!

Edited May 5, 2006 by Team Neos

[+StarBrand]

Somewhere on this site should be posted the dangers of ...

You are going to get a lot of varied responses to this post. The bottom line will no doubt be:

1) this function of this site is to list geocaches

2) safety issues, whether they pertain generalized outdoor hazards, urban considerations, or safety while driving/hiking to and from caches, as well as computer security issues, are the personal responsibility of the cachers involved

3) in the case of minors, that responsibility also resides with their parent or gaurdian

4) there is no way in the world you could ever effectively warn every person about every potential hazard they may encounter during their lifetime

 

I would like to add that I am glad that you were not harmed in this episode!

 

Ok - ditto. Lots of hazrds out there. Weather, terrian, just nature. Oh and don't forget about people. Car accidents, robbery, beatings, traps, snares, etc.....

 

Be careful out there!! (now it is on the site (somewhere))

 

[also glad here that you are ok!]

[+TEAM 360]

It's gotten to the point where I have warning labels on my cache pages:

 

WARNING! You can be seriously injured or even killed while

attempting this cache. Dangers for this cache include extreme

terrain changes, steep drops, and desert animals and plants. Do not

try this cache if you are not in good physical condition. Not a

cache for children. Attempt this cache at your own risk.

 

For my caches THE CRACK, ELECTRIC VIEW, DROPOFF, and OVER THE EDGE.

[+mudsneaker]

I use to raise snakes and didnt waste ant time getting a Sawyer Extractor Pump for emergencys. I don't have snakes now but still carry it in my first aid kit for any reason needed.

[+briansnat]

Not really a getting started issue. Moving to general forum.

[+Mopar]

Somewhere on this site should be posted the dangers of reaching into piles of rocks or holes in the ground.

 

I was in Henry Coe State Park in California last weekend and sat on a large rock to eat lunch. Afterward I glanced over it and saw a rattlesnake peering out of a jumble of rocks. When I went around I saw that its body was coiled around a plastic cache container.

 

Kids looking for this cache may not have noticed the snake in their excitement of 'the find'!

 

Regards,

 

Nosmo

You are sooooo right!!!!

Here's my suggestion.

Somewhere near the top of each and every cache page they should post something like this:

 

That should link to a more detailed warning, maybe something like this.

 

Since geocaches are in all sorts of locations, all over the world, the warning should be short and sweet and fairly generic. Maybe like this:

 

Geocaching, hiking, backpacking and other outdoor activities involve risk to both persons and property. There are many variables including, but not limited to, weather, fitness level, terrain features and outdoor experience, that must be considered prior to seeking or placing a Cache. Be prepared for your journey and be sure to check the current weather and conditions before heading outdoors. Always exercise common sense and caution.

 

Would something like that make you happy?

[+wimseyguy]

Oooh I like that. Can I get one for my cache pages too?

 

PS I have never seen a snake actually in a cache, although I may or may not have seen a cache in a snake, a spider, and a rat!

Edited May 6, 2006 by wimseyguy

[+TEAM 360]

You are sooooo right!!!!

Here's my suggestion.

Somewhere near the top of each and every cache page they should post something like this:

 

That should link to a more detailed warning, maybe something like this.

 

Since geocaches are in all sorts of locations, all over the world, the warning should be short and sweet and fairly generic. Maybe like this:

 

Geocaching, hiking, backpacking and other outdoor activities involve risk to both persons and property. There are many variables including, but not limited to, weather, fitness level, terrain features and outdoor experience, that must be considered prior to seeking or placing a Cache. Be prepared for your journey and be sure to check the current weather and conditions before heading outdoors. Always exercise common sense and caution.

 

Would something like that make you happy?

 

Yea, this is nice:

In no way shall Groundspeak Inc. nor any agent, officer, employee or volunteer administrator of Groundspeak Inc., be liable for any direct, indirect, punitive, or consequential damages arising out of, or in any way connected with the use of this website or use of the information contained within.

 

But it doesn't say anything about the person who PLACED the cache. I would still suggest a warning on the cache page itself, if it's needed.

[Steak N Eggs]

 

But it doesn't say anything about the person who PLACED the cache. I would still suggest a warning on the cache page itself, if it's needed.

 

Some people are just to stupid to even think that their cache is unsafe. I have been to a few caches that I though were WAY up in the danger catagory, and I used my own judgment to send my kids back to the truck. A little note might be nice saying "not kid friendly" or such, but it may also take out some of the mystery for the people who are into the "NUMBERS GAME" but go for the hunt. We try to do both...

 

Do some reasearch before you head out. Look at past logs, look at topo maps and see where it is. then make your conclusions from there. Difficulty ratings are also good (if the PLACER rated it correctly). Use common sence while out hunting and you should be fine......

 

Whould you agree Mo?

Edited May 6, 2006 by Steak N Eggs

[+aka Monkey]

I use to raise snakes and didnt waste ant time getting a Sawyer Extractor Pump for emergencys. I don't have snakes now but still carry it in my first aid kit for any reason needed.

 

Don't bother. Apparently they don't work and could cause harm.

 

And, if you want to see what a rattlesnake bite can do, check out these pictures. They are NOT for the faint of heart! (Initial link goes to story, subsequent clicks go to photos)

Edited May 7, 2006 by aka Monkey

[+Sagefox]

I was in Henry Coe State Park in California last weekend and sat on a large rock to eat lunch. Afterward I glanced over it and saw a rattlesnake peering out of a jumble of rocks. When I went around I saw that its body was coiled around a plastic cache container.

 

You ate lunch before retrieving the cache?

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

You ate lunch before retrieving the cache?

 

Doing that cost me a first to find once.

 

[+LeoCaptKirk]

In just 4 months and 250 caches, I have encountered snakes, ticks, almost being hit by a car, several falls from looking at the GPS and not where I was going, poison ivy, scrapes, spider bites, and was almost shot by a man for being in the wrong neighborhood (that cache has been archived due to several cachers being threatened). And that is probably only the tip of the iceberg! But it's fun...

[+prntr1]

Two VERY large rattlesnakes in two weeks, after seeing those pictures I am going to be a lot more careful.

[+ThePropers]

I use to raise snakes and didnt waste ant time getting a Sawyer Extractor Pump for emergencys. I don't have snakes now but still carry it in my first aid kit for any reason needed.

 

Don't bother. Apparently they don't work and could cause harm.

 

And, if you want to see what a rattlesnake bite can do, check out these pictures. They are NOT for the faint of heart! (Initial link goes to story, subsequent clicks go to photos)

 

Ok, that was gross.

 

I also carry one of those pumps...had no idea they were so useless. Grrrr...Here's hoping I never get bit by a rattlesnake.

[+ELECTRICHEADX]

 

Don't bother. Apparently they don't work and could cause harm.

 

i was just about to say the same thing...also just cause you get bitten doesn't neccessarily mean they in ject venom. those pictures were nuts-i actually didn't realize a rattler bite could be such a big deal that they'd hafta cut the entire length of your arm open!

[+Rick618]

We were up on a nearby mountain, it's more of a hill compared to the rest of the country but it's all we got. Lots of rocky areas filled with plenty of snake food and we did see a nice rattlesnake in the trail on the way out. That is just a hazzard of the woods same as a cliff, a wasp, or poison ivy. Some guys on bikes spotted it and we could hear it buzzing as we came up behind them. One of the guys used a log stick to nudge it off trail and everyone passed with no harm to man nor beast.

[+mudsneaker]

I use to raise snakes and didnt waste ant time getting a Sawyer Extractor Pump for emergencys. I don't have snakes now but still carry it in my first aid kit for any reason needed.

 

Don't bother. Apparently they don't work and could cause harm.

 

And, if you want to see what a rattlesnake bite can do, check out these pictures. They are NOT for the faint of heart! (Initial link goes to story, subsequent clicks go to photos)

 

After reading your post. I spent a long time reading up on it. To many to link, but most came to the same conclusion that your right about its effectiveness. But I also found nothing saying it caused more harm. A small amount of venom could be pulled out if used within 5 minutes of the bite. Although that time is likely better spent moving toward a hospital for sure.

I did really like this advise though regarding all treatments.

"Remember, all of these treatments can be potentially as devastating as the bite, so be sure to rehearse the eventuality of a bite and improve the likelihood of making the right decisions in a rapid manner under a very poor near frantic planning environment! Calm and reason rarely go hand in hand at the initial bite scene! Review each approach for what it has to offer and what fits the individual circumstance the best."

[+ThePropers]

 

i was just about to say the same thing...also just cause you get bitten doesn't neccessarily mean they in ject venom. those pictures were nuts-i actually didn't realize a rattler bite could be such a big deal that they'd hafta cut the entire length of your arm open!

 

No kidding. From now on I am caching in a full suit of armor. An ounce or prevention (or in this case 120 pounds) is worth a pound (or in this case, one nasty arm incision) of cure.

[+Airnut]

I ran into a rattlesnake at a cache recently. I walked about ten feet into the woods when I heard a buzzing sound. I looked to where the sound was coming from. It was a pretty good sized timber rattlesnake about

fifteen feet away. It was all coiled up with its head in the air. I felt that I was safe at that distance. I stood there and looked at it then walked away. I read that they are threatened so I was probably pretty lucky to see one. I live in the same area as ThePropers.

[+DocDiTTo]

I ran into a rattlesnake at a cache recently. I walked about ten feet into the woods when I heard a buzzing sound. I looked to where the sound was coming from. It was a pretty good sized timber rattlesnake about

fifteen feet away. It was all coiled up with its head in the air. I felt that I was safe at that distance. I stood there and looked at it then walked away. I read that they are threatened so I was probably pretty lucky to see one. I live in the same area as ThePropers.

 

I saw one last year near a cache in Sullivan County, but never around Harrisburg. Were you near home, or traveling out a ways? (For the rest of you, yes, I live pretty close to Airnut and ThePropers too)

 

We did have an up-close-and-personal encounter with two copperheads last year in Maryland.... ThePropers and I both got an adrenaline rush from one of them.

[+Airnut]

It was in a Perry County Pennsylvania Game Land not too far from home. I would not want to encounter a Copperhead. I heard they are nastier than Rattlesnakes.

[+geospyder]

If you spot a rattler you just have to be fast...

 

 

This rattler was actually the cache. Rubber snake with a micro inserted in it's belly. You can see the lair where it was placed. I did poke it a few times with my hiking stick before reaching in

[+silverquill]

Somewhere on this site should be posted the dangers of ...

You are going to get a lot of varied responses to this post. The bottom line will no doubt be:

1) this function of this site is to list geocaches

2) safety issues, whether they pertain generalized outdoor hazards, urban considerations, or safety while driving/hiking to and from caches, as well as computer security issues, are the personal responsibility of the cachers involved

 

Sort of. Actually there are a number of Attributes that can be attached to a cache description. The tick icon is one of them; I can't remember if snake is a choice.

 

But, in general, I agree with you.

 

As I posted in the poison ivy thread, geocaching is getting a lof of us inexperienced people lured out into the wilds. That is good, but we sure have a lot to learn -- just about being out in geocaching territory!

[+geospyder]

Snake is one of the attributes.. I've only placed two caches but both have snake warnings. The last person to find my Mini Blow Hole caches actually ran into a rattler.

[+DocDiTTo]

It was in a Perry County Pennsylvania Game Land not too far from home. I would not want to encounter a Copperhead. I heard they are nastier than Rattlesnakes.

 

From what I've read, a Copperhead's venom isn't as bad as a rattlesnakes, but if you're talking temperment, I don't know. The one I really got up close and person with was a baby, and was striking like crazy, but that was because it had been under the cache container we'd moved and then in the pile of leaves we were scraping away to put the cache back into place. How one of us didn't get bit is beyond me...

 

as the picture shows, we were pretty close! (He calmed down and was posing for us by then though)

 

[+headybrew]

If you spot a rattler you just have to be fast...

 

 

This rattler was actually the cache. Rubber snake with a micro inserted in it's belly. You can see the lair where it was placed. I did poke it a few times with my hiking stick before reaching in

 

Oh my GOD, that is so scarey. My eyes were bugging out untill I read the last part of your post. :P

[+aka Monkey]

Well, the Sawyer Extractor probably isn't a good bet, but there's at least one precaution you can take which might help. TurtleSkin manufactures a pair of snake gaiters which could help protect you from a bite. Sadly, no one sells gloves which are deemed as rattlesnake proof (these might work, although TurtleSkin doesn't guarantee them for snake bites), and you're more likely to be bitten in the arm than the hand.

 

And you could always spread this around your cache.

Edited May 11, 2006 by aka Monkey

[+TEAM 360]

If you spot a rattler you just have to be fast...

 

 

This rattler was actually the cache. Rubber snake with a micro inserted in it's belly. You can see the lair where it was placed. I did poke it a few times with my hiking stick before reaching in

 

Or INSANE!

 

Thats a pretty good looking fakesnake...the white is just a BIT too bright, though, but it sure looks good!

[BRTango]

If you spot a rattler you just have to be fast...

 

 

This rattler was actually the cache. Rubber snake with a micro inserted in it's belly. You can see the lair where it was placed. I did poke it a few times with my hiking stick before reaching in

 

So you poked it with a stick before you knew it was fake? You sir are a braver man than I!!!

[Stan_TheGunNut]

The SnakeAway doesn't work for all types of snakes....Cottonmouts are not affected by it. Also, moth balls are much cheaper, and works well also. To me, the snake away just looks and smells like ground up moth balls.

 

Guess this thread has reminded me that there are dangers everywhere....

[+50Cal]

If you spot a rattler you just have to be fast...

 

 

This rattler was actually the cache. Rubber snake with a micro inserted in it's belly. You can see the lair where it was placed. I did poke it a few times with my hiking stick before reaching in

 

This would be a DNF for sure. I don't think I would have gotten close enough to poke the thing. Even if I did, I still would not have grabbed it. I will be sure to not look for this cache. You have the link on gc.com for this one?

[+SandyEggoGuy]

If you spot a rattler you just have to be fast...

 

 

This rattler was actually the cache. Rubber snake with a micro inserted in it's belly. You can see the lair where it was placed. I did poke it a few times with my hiking stick before reaching in

 

This would be a DNF for sure. I don't think I would have gotten close enough to poke the thing. Even if I did, I still would not have grabbed it. I will be sure to not look for this cache. You have the link on gc.com for this one?

 

I LOVE IT for a cache. It sure would make a different on who logs this as the first to find. Who sells them, I want to get one for a cache..

[+ladeebugg]

Think im gonna have nightmares after reading about the actual snakebite, and fake snake cache(i wont look for that one). I have had only a few encounters with venomous snakes, but after seeing what they can do to your body, not to mention your life, I will be much more careful while looking for caches.

[+Nero]

ok, after reading this thread i think ill stick to urban caches! I have never encountered a snake, i did hear what sounded like a bush rattle at me once and i was gone!

[+Big-AlH]

What worries me is the kids. I'd hate to be taking the kids out for some fun caching and have one of them get bitten by a rattler.

 

They go to school in the foothills (~1500 feet elevation) and they find rattlers on their campus several times a year. A cache I placed near there first got covered in poison oak and after moving it now seems to be in a good rattler sleeping spot. Can't win there.

 

I will definately get treking poles for the kids and make sure they are well trained - but I probably won't take them to many rock caches in the hills...

 

-al

[+SithL0rd]

Saw a post one time supposedly from a National Parks suggestion box.

 

Went along the lines of "enjoyed the trails but could you do something about the thorns an all the bugs that kept biting us. could you spray to get rid of them."

 

I like to think it was fake but...

[+Cornerstone4]

If you spot a rattler you just have to be fast...

 

 

This rattler was actually the cache. Rubber snake with a micro inserted in it's belly. You can see the lair where it was placed. I did poke it a few times with my hiking stick before reaching in

 

This would be a DNF for sure. I don't think I would have gotten close enough to poke the thing. Even if I did, I still would not have grabbed it. I will be sure to not look for this cache. You have the link on gc.com for this one?

 

I LOVE IT for a cache. It sure would make a different on who logs this as the first to find. Who sells them, I want to get one for a cache..

 

I have one just like that that I got off of Ebay.

 

I got some real interesting phone calls after a few of the finds.

[+LDove]

Is it just me or are some of these just plain BAD ideas? Why would you put a fake snake in an spot like that? To scare people? Why? Is that funny? How do you teach children outdoor safety if you are poking at a fake snake with a stick? Why make a mouse trap that is camoed? Go ahead Johnny stick your fingers in there???? I guess there are so many other fun and safe ways to hide stuff - that I am not seeing the humor or fun in messing with things that could get kids or adults hurt? Am I the only one?

[+TEAM 360]

Is it just me or are some of these just plain BAD ideas? Why would you put a fake snake in an spot like that? To scare people? Why? Is that funny? How do you teach children outdoor safety if you are poking at a fake snake with a stick? Why make a mouse trap that is camoed? Go ahead Johnny stick your fingers in there???? I guess there are so many other fun and safe ways to hide stuff - that I am not seeing the humor or fun in messing with things that could get kids or adults hurt? Am I the only one?

 

Well, too bad they can't ALL be high-quality, exciting WalMart lamppost micros...

 

Actually, would you rather teach your children outdoor safety while poking at a REAL snake with a stick?

 

At least this way, they will know what a rattler looks like, and will always remember the lesson they learned that day, if you teach them to give snakes a wide berth and not to mess with them...

[+LDove]

No, I would teach them to leave a snake alone! I am not fond of lame caches either! Some of the ideas, however, on the thread with cool hides are great, safe and don't scare the crap out of anybody. I use creative ideas in my hides too, but I would not get a thrill out of scaring kids or adults. I guess to each his own...

[+mellisarock]

Recently came face to face with a nice sized snake while caching in oklahoma....this was a total wake up call and I will never again step off the trail without a little poking with a stick first!!!!

[+maggieszoo]

Warning: Long post

 

I got to attend a Search and Rescue Medical Responder seminar once and got to listen to a great lecture on spiders and snakes. A few things I remember:

 

rattlesnakes are generally pretty easy-going, but have fairly powerful venom.

 

copperheads are generally pretty aggressive, but have fairly weak venom.

 

only 1 in 4 bites involves envenomation. a snake knows that you are too big for him to eat, so he only wants you to leave.

 

young snakes don't know how much venom to inject, so will use a full dose every time

 

you are more likely to get a big dose on a very hot day. the snake doesn't want to have to chase its prey, so it kills it quickly

 

Most snakebites occur in the southern states.

 

Of those, most victims are men.

 

Of those, most involve alcohol.

 

Of those, most are on the hand.

 

Of those, most are not the first bite the victim has ever had.

 

Sorry, I can't remember the lecturers name, but he was an MD that specializes in snake bites. I think he was from Colorado.

 

He also said that antivenin is usually worse than the venom, often deadly. Don't apply a tourniquet or ice unless you fear for your life so much you are willing to lose the limb, because you might. DO keep the limb lower than the heart. DO stay calm. This will help more than anything else. The victim should not walk if it can be helped. This increases blood flow. You don't want the venom circulating. Don't use an epinephrine auto injector (Epi Pen) unless the victim is having symptoms of anaphylaxis (difficulty breathing, throat swelling, etc). Epi increases blood flow, so only take it if you may die without it. Oh, and once you have had antivenin, you will be sensitive to it forever and can't ever have it again, so make sure you really need it before you let anyone give it to you.

 

Most people are not horribly sensitive to a snake bite the first time they are bitten. Yes, the site will look terrible and tissue will most likely die, but you most likely will not die or even have to be hospitalized.

 

I was bitten by a copperhead in my own backyard. Never saw him until after it happened. My ankle looked really nasty for awhile, and the tissue "cored out" about the size of a quarter and maybe a half inch deep, but I don't even have a scar now. I felt sick, but not too bad. I rode 50 miles on the horse that weekend and did ok. Never did get around to going to a doctor....

 

Just be careful out there. Like I said, I got bitten in my own backyard.

Edited July 14, 2006 by maggieszoo

[+Ambrosia]

 

This little guy was near a cache that we did on Saturday. I had to use the macro setting to get a clear pic of him.

[+Miragee]

Last month we ran into this cache guardian.

 

[+Ambrosia]

Hoo, boy! Right on top of the cache!

[+sbell111]

"Working with explosives is dangerous."

[+SmartSapper]

WARNING! Being born has been proven to be fatal in 100% of tested individuals. Your results may vary. Side effects may include, but are not limited to, injury, adventure, pain, happiness, anger, love, excitement, boredom, unpleasantness, marriage, divorce, stories to tell your grandkids, laughter, tears, more laughter, arthritis, grief, wisdom, cancer, enlightenment and death. The management assumes no responsibility for loss or damages. 4 out of 5 doctors agree that sitting in your basement with the light turned off is a bad idea.

 

[+Glock22]

If you live in Florida You should know by the age of 4-5 that you have deadly snakes around also gators if you live in California, You know you have Rattlers the only poisinous snakes we have, Bottom line if you for a cache check to see what might be there. We have alot of urban type "Bush Hides" in Fresno and it's Hot 108' Today so the Blackwidow spiders are out they bite you just be carful, watch your kids and educate them on how much that bie hurts.

 

Just my.02

 

When I was 7 I brouht home a Cotton mouth From the swamp Brother told me it was Glass snake, Did not get bit But Never listened to brother again in regards to snakes.

 

Greg