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Videocache Opinion?


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Hey everyone,

 

I've created (to my knowledge) the first videocache, but I'm having problems getting it approved. Under the cache guidlines, it suggested soliciting opinions in this forum on new or novel cache ideas if you're having trouble getting them published, so here I am! This is a puzzle cache where you have to use a video to help you find your way from the start coordinates to the final cache location. Since the listing is currently disabled, I can't link you to that, but I recopy the important info here, which will give you a very good idea of how this type of cache would work.

 

The admin's objections were that the video is hosted on a remote site (which I don't get; the guidlines allow for puzzle caches to require research from outside sources), and that not enough gps use is involved. He said that it's against the guidlines for you to have a link that navigates the user away from gc.com, however, since I remote linked to the video on my cache page this isn't a concern as clicking the link will merely cause an open/save file dialog box to come up. As far as the gps use goes, I know there's other puzzle caches where you pretty much stop using your gps after arriving at the start coords.

 

I think that from the viewpoint of a puzzle cacher, this would be a fun and challenging puzzle that could be solved with a variety of approaches. Just so you have the full picture, I'll reproduce the text of the cache page below. If you think this is a good idea for a cache and should be allowed, please post a response and let the admins know! Here's the cache:

 

Sturbridge Videoventure

N 39° 49.264 W 074° 55.435

 

This is an experimental video puzzle cache. Figure out a way to use the video to find it.

Difficulty will vary depending on your knowledge of the area and ingenuity.

 

Get the video here!

 

Please right click the video link and save it to your computer to conserve bandwidth, because you're probably going to be watching it more than once!

 

Watch me take a fast-motion drive from the listed waypoint to the final cache location. This should prove a real challenge to people who don't have a way of taking the video out into the field with them. There are many ways you could try to solve this one, but keep in mind that the cache is somewhere within the Sturbridge developments (Woods, Estates, and Lakes), and that the video may not show the most direct route to it.

 

Also, you can't really see it in the video, but I AM holding the cache in my hand when it ends.

 

Note: I just noticed that I misspoke in the video and said "the three sturbridge woods developments" instead of "the three sturbridge developments" (sturbridge woods only being one of them). Just to confirm, the cache may be located in any of the three developments, and if you follow the video route you will go through all three on your way.

 

Special thanks to stickypod.com for both their fantastic camera mount and free video hosting.

 

[end of cache page]

 

Thanks for your opinions and (hopefully) support!

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Yup I'd try it. I think it would be a great puzzle cache the way I read the guidelines. You give the general starting point and it would be a unique challenge to get to the cache by using the video. As far as the video's storage location goes I'll leave that discussion for others. But it should be available 24/7. My vote is yes.

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I'll check out the video later, but if you need to use a GPS more why not add this to it:

 

When you arrive at the final spot (from the video), use your GPS to project a waypoint out XXX feet at a bearing of XXX degrees and that will give you the actual cache location.

 

Seems that it incorporates the GPS more and might help with the approval.

 

I reserve the right to edit my opinion once I've watched the video later. :o

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Hey i wrote a philosophy paper on the FSM! good stuff! glad to have my topic touched by your noodly appendage...

 

i actually suggested to the admin that maybe i could make the current cache location the first leg of a two-part multi to incorporate more gps use. however, it does seem that there's plenty of puzzle caches where all you need the gps for is finding the initial coords and the puzzle takes you the rest of the way, so i'm not sure why mine is a problem in that respect.

 

I'll check out the video later, but if you need to use a GPS more why not add this to it:

 

When you arrive at the final spot (from the video), use your GPS to project a waypoint out XXX feet at a bearing of XXX degrees and that will give you the actual cache location.

 

Seems that it incorporates the GPS more and might help with the approval.

 

I reserve the right to edit my opinion once I've watched the video later. :o

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:lol::o:o This is one of the few puzzle caches I would bother doing! I would have no way to take the video in the field with me, however, if I lived nearby I'd be in on the FTF race( at a respectful 25MPH). I can map the video route easily from watching it. Project a waypoint to get to the cache or Make it stage one of a two part multi, for increased GPS use. You are onto something good here. As far as the video being off GC.com, can you make it so that it can only link from GC.com? Or that it auto-returns to GC.Com? Good Luck! you can bring it to an area near me at anytime!
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If the GPS takes you to the starting coordinates of the Video I don't see the issue.

 

If the puzzle is to figure out the location of the cache based entirly on the video then I still think it's great, but this site would have heart burn since they want a cache to have a GPS component to it.

 

As for the link to your video, that in and of itself is a non issue unless the rules have changed.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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hey thanks, i tried searching for others but couldn't come up with any. guess i'm not the first. i know the guidlines don't allow for precedents, but at least i can use this as an example of where they're applying inconsistent standards, as this guy had his video remote linked as well and it looks like his also relies more on the video than the gps to guide you to the cache.

not to mention the documentary screencaps look pretty funny--i'll hafta watch this later!

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...NB&Submit6=Find

 

Here is a video cache, quite funny if you ask me.

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EXCELLENT WORK! Great editing, solid video. As has been suggested, when you get out of your car, you could then give an offset from that location. Stand in front of the camera like you did at the beginning and say "From this spot, travel 34 feet on heading ____. Enjoy your videoventure."

 

It would give you video a nice feeling of closure, and wouldn't reveal the cache.

 

Again, though - GREAT WORK! Your reviewer really needs to review their reviewing, imho. :o

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What an interesting challenge! I would definitely take you up on it. I love seeing all the interesting ideas you intelligent people come up with!

 

Comments on the video: it instantly downloaded and did not take me away from gc.com so I don't understand why there would be a problem. If all else fails, you are allowed to put links on your profile...right? Could you add the link there and instruct finders to download from there? Or is that just more complications added to the mix? Anyway, I'm sure there's a way to do it, others have.

 

Comments on the gps usage which I think is probably the larger issue: I agree with earlier comment. The cache appears to be a micro. Throw some coords in there and hide a bigger better cache further in to the woods. After all that I think the people deserve a lifesize cache anyway. :o You put forth effort on the gps issue and maybe they'll give a little on the link issue.

 

Goodluck! Great idea! (wish we lived closer)

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EXCELLENT WORK! Great editing, solid video. As has been suggested, when you get out of your car, you could then give an offset from that location. Stand in front of the camera like you did at the beginning and say "From this spot, travel 34 feet on heading ____. Enjoy your videoventure."

 

But how does that require you to use your GPSr more?

 

I've seen a number of caches that give you coordinates to a parking lot and then have you follow directions to a cache (example. Not sure why this is any different.

 

But as headybrew said if they won't approve it put it on another site that will. It looks like a great idea and would be a shame to not be out there somewhere.

Edited by Stump
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for some reason i often seem to have trouble with quicktime, no matter what computer or browser i'm using.

also i'm using adobe premiere and that tends to produce really bad results when t comes to quicktime compression.

even so, i was planning on eventually adding a quicktime version and maybe trying to clean up the compression to reduce the file size or even making a high and low quality version. i just decided to wait and see if it would get approved before spending the time on the render. if it does get approved, i may put an uncompressed version on cds with the cache printout as an insert and leave them in nearby caches.

 

I would recommend also providing the video in QuickTime format, if not exclusively. Cross-platform compatibility, predictable performance, and a wide variety of compression settings and options stomps wmv in the dirt.

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EXCELLENT WORK! Great editing, solid video. As has been suggested, when you get out of your car, you could then give an offset from that location. Stand in front of the camera like you did at the beginning and say "From this spot, travel 34 feet on heading ____. Enjoy your videoventure."

 

But how does that require you to use your GPSr more?

 

 

Is that a serious question?

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EXCELLENT WORK! Great editing, solid video. As has been suggested, when you get out of your car, you could then give an offset from that location. Stand in front of the camera like you did at the beginning and say "From this spot, travel 34 feet on heading ____. Enjoy your videoventure."

 

But how does that require you to use your GPSr more?

 

 

Is that a serious question?

I'd say YES. All you need is a compass, not a GPSr, to travel 34 feet from a spot.

 

I'd do a "add .xxx to latitude and .yyy to longitude of the spot you end on."

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I think it is fine as is. What would make this any different then a 1/1 you use the gps to get to the starting point. Just in this case you need to then find the cache using the video. Even on most puzzle caches you only use the gps for 1 waypoint. Yours is at the beginning and not at the end.

 

Richard of the GeoCrickets

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I've done more than one cache where the coords get you to a starting point and you don't use your GPS after that. As long as you use the GSP to get started, I don't see an issue here. I suppose you could add a redirector at the end of the journey that requires going to another waypoint or shooting a projection, but I just don't think it's necessary. Where in the guidelines does it say how much time you must spend actually using the GPS during the course of a cache hunt?

 

As for the off-site link, I don't get that at all. What about all the pics, music clips, etc. that are actually external references? Also, I know there are plenty of caches that link to other web sites. In fact, in the cache reporting form there is a space specifically for this. Is Groundspeak going to start hosting all of these resources for us now as well?

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As for the off-site link, I don't get that at all. What about all the pics, music clips, etc. that are actually external references? Also, I know there are plenty of caches that link to other web sites. In fact, in the cache reporting form there is a space specifically for this. Is Groundspeak going to start hosting all of these resources for us now as well?
I used to host my own photos for my hides until one day my local reviewer said I couldn't. The policy had changed. This doesn't mean I had to go and fix all my old caches, but the new ones had to have photos hosted on gc.com servers.

 

On the other hand, I made the case that I needed to host some data on one of my servers, I explained why, and it was accepted. That cache is now live. (I also knew about the guideline in advance and explained to my reviewer before I submitted the cache what I was doing and why. In my hiding experience, asking first, as opposed to explaining later, is worth a lot.)

 

(And if you want to know why, this isn't what I needed but consider a puzzle cache that uses some steganographic technique to hide the coordinates. The image might be manipulated by GC so that it still looks the same but the coords might be gone. This is why some images need to be hosted on servers the hider has control of.)

 

I think your cache should be approved.

 

Paul

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I would recommend also providing the video in QuickTime format, if not exclusively. Cross-platform compatibility, predictable performance, and a wide variety of compression settings and options stomps wmv in the dirt.

BS - WMV is a better choice. The QT a broken on my PC. WMV is smaller BW and there are players for MAC and Linux on sourceforge.net.

I was going to suggest at least two ways to view.

MAC's main way and Windows'. At least have these two.

 

QT isn't as cross plaform compatible as ppl with MACs want you to think. :)

 

Other then that, I think a vidoecache is a great idea. As for the clicking away from GC.com, most webcam caches MUST do this in order to reference the webcam in question.

Edited by supertech
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well, i finally got an email from the reviewer. i'm a little dismayed at how dismissive he's been. he never responded to any of my requests for suggestions on getting the cache approved or my request that he post the cache in the reviewers' forum (as it says to do in the guidlines). instead, he just told me i could appeal his decision at contact@geocaching.com. and i just did, including the url to this post in the link. hopefully everybody's opinions on here combined with the fact that my cache doesn't actually break any guidlines will convince them to approve it. i think it's great that gc.com includes the suggestion to post here as part of the guidlines, it encourages a more democratic environment where we the cachers can have a say in what should be allowed. Thanks everybody for your opinions!

 

 

that's a funny coincidence--my videoventure takes place in Voorhees, NJ

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Hey everyone,

 

I've created (to my knowledge) the first videocache, but I'm having problems getting it approved. Under the cache guidlines, it suggested soliciting opinions in this forum on new or novel cache ideas if you're having trouble getting them published, so here I am! This is a puzzle cache where you have to use a video to help you find your way from the start coordinates to the final cache location. Since the listing is currently disabled, I can't link you to that, but I recopy the important info here, which will give you a very good idea of how this type of cache would work.

 

The admin's objections were that the video is hosted on a remote site (which I don't get; the guidlines allow for puzzle caches to require research from outside sources), and that not enough gps use is involved. He said that it's against the guidlines for you to have a link that navigates the user away from gc.com, however, since I remote linked to the video on my cache page this isn't a concern as clicking the link will merely cause an open/save file dialog box to come up. As far as the gps use goes, I know there's other puzzle caches where you pretty much stop using your gps after arriving at the start coords.

 

I think that from the viewpoint of a puzzle cacher, this would be a fun and challenging puzzle that could be solved with a variety of approaches. Just so you have the full picture, I'll reproduce the text of the cache page below. If you think this is a good idea for a cache and should be allowed, please post a response and let the admins know! Here's the cache:

 

Sturbridge Videoventure

N 39° 49.264 W 074° 55.435

 

This is an experimental video puzzle cache. Figure out a way to use the video to find it.

Difficulty will vary depending on your knowledge of the area and ingenuity.

 

Get the video here!

 

Please right click the video link and save it to your computer to conserve bandwidth, because you're probably going to be watching it more than once!

 

Watch me take a fast-motion drive from the listed waypoint to the final cache location. This should prove a real challenge to people who don't have a way of taking the video out into the field with them. There are many ways you could try to solve this one, but keep in mind that the cache is somewhere within the Sturbridge developments (Woods, Estates, and Lakes), and that the video may not show the most direct route to it.

 

Also, you can't really see it in the video, but I AM holding the cache in my hand when it ends.

 

Note: I just noticed that I misspoke in the video and said "the three sturbridge woods developments" instead of "the three sturbridge developments" (sturbridge woods only being one of them). Just to confirm, the cache may be located in any of the three developments, and if you follow the video route you will go through all three on your way.

 

Special thanks to stickypod.com for both their fantastic camera mount and free video hosting.

 

[end of cache page]

 

Thanks for your opinions and (hopefully) support!

 

 

You have created the First Video Letterbox!!!! see if they will list it.

 

But I am not downloading any thing to my computer that I don't trust and since I don't know you I don't trust you. No offense.

Edited by CO Admin
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well, i finally got an email from the reviewer. i'm a little dismayed at how dismissive he's been. he never responded to any of my requests for suggestions on getting the cache approved or my request that he post the cache in the reviewers' forum (as it says to do in the guidlines). instead, he just told me i could appeal his decision at contact@geocaching.com.

Looking at your cache page, I believe this summary oversimplifies the extended dialogue which took place between you and the reviewer. It is true that, on May 3, your reviewer told you ultimately to appeal the decision to the contact address. But two days earlier, the reviewer told you that a Groundspeak employee was consulted about your cache, and that the thumbs-down decision was thus endorsed by Groundspeak. A discussion in the Reviewer Forum is moot if Groundspeak has already said no to the idea. The reviewers could love a cache concept, but it's Groundspeak's site and we do what they tell us to do.

 

That being said, you are always welcome to bring the issue to the forums, and you have gotten some good feedback here in the thread. Yes, it's an innovative idea -- but it doesn't fit the listing guidelines for what can be published here.

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BS - WMV is a better choice.
Strike one (for lack of tact and inserting opinion).
WMV is smaller...
Strike two (for generalizing and transferring WMV's limitations to QT).
QT isn't as cross plaform compatible as ppl with MACs want you to think.
Try golf.

 

QT Player is under constant development and therefore should be updated consistently (it's free). I wasn't trying to enter into a platform war, but Apple QuickTime is the industry standard digital video file format for more reasons than I can take time for here. Ask a pro, but be prepared to be laughed at.

 

MAC's main way and Windows'. At least have these two.
We agree!

 

All that, and I still think the OP's well-done video introduces a lot of potential new fun to the game. It's something I have been wanting to do for a long time, too.

 

[/arguing]

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Special thanks to stickypod.com for both their fantastic camera mount and free video hosting.

 

You may want to ask the reviewer to clarify his/her concerns about the off-site hosting of the video. However, the concern may be that it looks like the above line is advertising for the stickypod.com. Removing that line may make things peachy.

 

I don't really see the concern about the use of the gps. You have to use the gps to get the starting point. I've done a number of night caches that give you the starting coords and then you can put the gps in your pocket and follow the reflectors.

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well, i finally got an email from the reviewer. i'm a little dismayed at how dismissive he's been. he never responded to any of my requests for suggestions on getting the cache approved or my request that he post the cache in the reviewers' forum (as it says to do in the guidlines). instead, he just told me i could appeal his decision at contact@geocaching.com.

Looking at your cache page, I believe this summary oversimplifies the extended dialogue which took place between you and the reviewer. It is true that, on May 3, your reviewer told you ultimately to appeal the decision to the contact address. But two days earlier, the reviewer told you that a Groundspeak employee was consulted about your cache, and that the thumbs-down decision was thus endorsed by Groundspeak. A discussion in the Reviewer Forum is moot if Groundspeak has already said no to the idea. The reviewers could love a cache concept, but it's Groundspeak's site and we do what they tell us to do.

 

That being said, you are always welcome to bring the issue to the forums, and you have gotten some good feedback here in the thread. Yes, it's an innovative idea -- but it doesn't fit the listing guidelines for what can be published here.

 

it does fit the listing guidlines though. that's what's been so frustrating about this; people keep citing guidlines that it doesn't violate and then basically ignoring me when i point out that it doesn't violate them. the extended dialogue between me and the reviewer pretty much consisted of him copying and pasting generic guidlines that were completely unrelated to my cache, and although he said somthing about discussing it with a Groundspeak employee he still didn't give any valid reason why they had made that decision. it's really weird how people reading this thread look at the cache and see that it's no different from many puzzle and night caches, yet when a reviewer looks at it they don't seem to be able to see this.

 

i got a response to my appeal citing the same irrelevent guidline that the original reviewer had (The information needed to solve the puzzle must be available to the general caching community and should be solvable from the information provided on the cache listing). I wrote back a response offering to take down the stickypod reference (commercial violation, that's understandable) and explaining my intentions for the puzzle a little better,and yet again explaining why my cache does not violate that guidline, so I'm hoping they'll compromise and let me list it as the first leg of a multi like i'd previously suggested.

Edited by ELECTRICHEADX
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You have created the First Video Letterbox!!!! see if they will list it.

 

But I am not downloading any thing to my computer that I don't trust and since I don't know you I don't trust you. No offense.

 

as i pointed out to the appeals person, this is an open-ended puzzle, not a letterbox. there are a multitude of ways to solve it, and only a handful of them are similar to letterboxing.

 

and i guess i won't have to worry about you downloading me to your computer then ;-)

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I'd like to hear from the admins/Groundspeak on this one. Nothing seems out of bounds to me. I'd like to know what they see, cuz I'm missing it. Sometimes a key bit of info is left out when a cache disapproval is appealed in the forums. Good luck with approval though--very creative idea.

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