'rolling Your Own' 1:24k Maps - And Sharing Them?

[jackchinook]

So I've been largely unimpressed with the topo basemaps available and want to get ahold of 7.5' USGS quad-quality maps for display on a Garmin GPSMap CX....and I want to be able to use them outside of National Parks on frequent occasion. Researching this has led me to a method of 'rolling your own maps' using a pretty complex, labor intensive method that I'm still trying to work through - I'm only moderately capable of this sort of stuff . And I don't want to invest in specialized software for converting GIS-type files that will never be used again once I have the files created that I need. So, this leads me to the following questions:

 

Is there somewhere that I've missed where these maps are available?

 

Is it legal? I mean the maps are generated from data acquired legally, for free from the USGS.

 

Are there people out there that are looking for the same stuff that would be into doing some exchanges to cut down on the amount of work to create all these maps...a coop of sorts?

 

I mean 7.5' series maps are available all over the place in digital format! 1000's of people have GPS units that allow downloadable maps. there must be folks like me around, right? Am I missing something?

[-Oz-]

1. I dont think the maps are available anywhere. I'm working on a site that would allow this.

 

2. I do believe its legal

 

3. I would love to. The current map I made i'm pretty sure is better than 1:24k.

 

I use http://people.uleth.ca/~brad.gom/dem2topo/ that to make contour lines easily. I'd love to be in a co-op to do this project.

 

Question: What exactly defines 1:24k? My most recent topo has contour lines every 25 ft.

Edited May 1, 2006 by -Oz-

[Neo_Geo]

Is there somewhere that I've missed where these maps are available?

Check out MapCenter

[+Sputnik 57]

Question: What exactly defines 1:24k? My most recent topo has contour lines every 25 ft.

1:24K maps generally refers to topographic maps prepared by the US Geological Survey. The scale of the maps is 1 to 24,000. The USGS also produces less detailed 1 to 150,000 maps, which form the basis of Garmin's Topo US map product. Garmin offers 1:24K topo maps, but only for national (and some state) parks.

[+TeamCNJC]

I don't know if this is what you researched or not, but you may also want to try this link. I've currently got a project underway - small tests have worked well so far.

[+Team Trail Walker]

I don't know if this is what you researched or not, but you may also want to try this link. I've currently got a project underway - small tests have worked well so far.

 

I have used the above web page as a guide to build several maps. I have been very happy with the results thus far. My first map was a tough one and took several tries to get just what I wanted. After doing a few maps it has become much easier. I also like how my homemade maps can be integrated with Mapsource. Now when I get ready for a hiking trip somewhere I look forward to putting a map together as part of the overall experience. I'll be using the most detailed of the maps I have made later this week for a trip to "The Great Sand Dunes" in Colorado.

 

Manyhatz

[chetwynd]

I'd be willing to pay someone to make me some maps of a specific northern california area that I ride motorcycles in! Just east of Chico!

[+The Furlows]

I went to that site, and it looks like there is a fee for most of these programs, am I off with this?

[+Team Trail Walker]

I went to that site, and it looks like there is a fee for most of these programs, am I off with this?

 

I have downloaded every program needed for free. Some have limitations on the free versions but work well for building your own maps. On several occasions I have had to find a creative way around the limits but that's part of the fun, IMHO.

 

Manyhatz

[-Oz-]

I don't know if this is what you researched or not, but you may also want to try this link. I've currently got a project underway - small tests have worked well so far.

This is exactly what I started using. I need to perfect my technique though.

[+Alan2]

If you own a PPC you can load 24K topo maps from National Geographic using their state series and Pocket Topo. Plug in a GPS in the memory slot and you wil have real-time locator on the maps.

[+Renegade Knight]

If you own a PPC you can load 24K topo maps from National Geographic using their state series and Pocket Topo. Plug in a GPS in the memory slot and you wil have real-time locator on the maps.

Have they made this where you can import your waypoints yet? Last time I checked you were limited to one at a time that you input manually.

 

To answer the OP.

 

There are a lot of people who have made maps out of necessity. There is probably enough interest on the internet to create a site to share the maps made by enthusiasts. Especially if you created topo maps of a higher qualiyt.

Edited May 2, 2006 by Renegade Knight

[jackchinook]

Thanks for the replies folks. I don't have the facilities to host a site but would be interested in sharing any maps that I create. Specifically, I'll be working on maps in central and northern Vermont (where I'm living now, sorta temporarily) and then in the Cascades back in Washington, once I return. I don't yet grasp whether these will be files that could be emailed back and forth, maybe zipped, to interesed people(?) or maybe put on an FTP somewhere....but I'm interested in finding something as it does seem to be a bit of work for each map. You know what they say about many hands....

[peter]

I don't have the facilities to host a site but would be interested in sharing any maps that I create.

Why not use the MapCenter site that was linked earlier:

http://mapcenter.cgpsmapper.com/

That's already set up just for this purpose and would make the maps available to more people.

A note in this forum when maps are added would also be helpful to the geocaching community.

[+Klatch]

If you own a PPC you can load 24K topo maps from National Geographic using their state series and Pocket Topo. Plug in a GPS in the memory slot and you wil have real-time locator on the maps.

Have they made this where you can import your waypoints yet? Last time I checked you were limited to one at a time that you input manually.

 

No, and the email I got said it wasn't in the plans.

[+Renegade Knight]

If you own a PPC you can load 24K topo maps from National Geographic using their state series and Pocket Topo. Plug in a GPS in the memory slot and you wil have real-time locator on the maps.

Have they made this where you can import your waypoints yet? Last time I checked you were limited to one at a time that you input manually.

 

No, and the email I got said it wasn't in the plans.

 

Thanks. I emailed them about 3 years ago with a request. In that time NG topo has become less geocaching friendly. Amazing.

[+Alan2]

If you own a PPC you can load 24K topo maps from National Geographic using their state series and Pocket Topo. Plug in a GPS in the memory slot and you wil have real-time locator on the maps.

Have they made this where you can import your waypoints yet? Last time I checked you were limited to one at a time that you input manually.

 

No, and the email I got said it wasn't in the plans.

 

Thanks. I emailed them about 3 years ago with a request. In that time NG topo has become less geocaching friendly. Amazing.

 

The way I get around the waypoint limitation is to convert them into Notes in the NG program on my PC. I relabel the Note to a simple letter like A B C etc for each waypoint. The Notes transfer into the PPC at the right coordinates and you can Go To. Why NG can transfer Notes and can't do waypoints itself is beyond me!

 

Even without the waypoints, you'll still have your actual location on a 24k map. That's something you can't do with a regular GPS.

Edited May 2, 2006 by Alan2

[GeoidPS]

I am working on the most comprehensive map in the universe available for the Fletcher,VA USGS quadrangle area. I am collecting data for every corner of this map. This is available in a Garmin gps file. This area is also included in the Garmin 24K east series. I will share this information freely on the condition it is also shared freely. USGS quadrangles are good to a point, but from my experience there is a lot lacking.

When my data collection is completed, I will offer this to any map maker willing to update this area in their software.

[+Klatch]

If you own a PPC you can load 24K topo maps from National Geographic using their state series and Pocket Topo. Plug in a GPS in the memory slot and you wil have real-time locator on the maps.

Have they made this where you can import your waypoints yet? Last time I checked you were limited to one at a time that you input manually.

 

No, and the email I got said it wasn't in the plans.

 

Thanks. I emailed them about 3 years ago with a request. In that time NG topo has become less geocaching friendly. Amazing.

 

The way I get around the waypoint limitation is to convert them into Notes in the NG program on my PC. I relabel the Note to a simple letter like A B C etc for each waypoint. The Notes transfer into the PPC at the right coordinates and you can Go To. Why NG can transfer Notes and can't do waypoints itself is beyond me!

 

Even without the waypoints, you'll still have your actual location on a 24k map. That's something you can't do with a regular GPS.

 

When I use topo maps I am normally in rugged terrain. Just the kind of environment I would hate to subject my TX to. I would probably end up with the Palm in the hard case all the time, anyway. But it sounds like something fun to play with.

[bvandeuson]

Question: What exactly defines 1:24k? My most recent topo has contour lines every 25 ft.

1:24K maps generally refers to topographic maps prepared by the US Geological Survey. The scale of the maps is 1 to 24,000. The USGS also produces less detailed 1 to 150,000 maps, which form the basis of Garmin's Topo US map product. Garmin offers 1:24K topo maps, but only for national (and some state) parks.

 

1:24K refers to the distance scale.......that is: 1inch on the map equals 24000 inches on the ground. As the map scale gets smaller, that is 1:12K, the area covered by the map will be smaller, with more detail possible. I use TOPO USA to generate my maps for plotting caches prior to hunting them........Using 1:24K to get a picture of the surrounding area, roads, trails, etc., then print in a much smaller scale to pinpoint the location using the coordinates. I use the larger scale to get as close to the cache location as possible by trail or road, then the small scale map to separate details. I hope this helps. P.S. I am surrounded by National Forest, so most of the caches I hunt are NOT in urban environments, where TOPO does not do as good a job with the details as commercial maps.

Edited May 3, 2006 by bvandeuson

[peter]

I am working on the most comprehensive map in the universe available for the Fletcher,VA USGS quadrangle area.

Orienteering clubs frequently have topo maps of their local areas that are far more detailed and up-to-date than the USGS 24K series. But I'm not familiar with the Fletcher, VA quad and whether any clubs have already mapped that area.

[-Oz-]

MapCenter has a lot of weaknesses. I should be albe to have a much better system up within 2 weeks, 3 max. I'm pretty good at programming.

 

If you think you'll forget about this thread you can send your map(s) to gps @ oztheory.com (remove the spaces). I'll definitely do my best to make a good site for exchanging files like this (for free). If you have ideas please send me a PM.

[peter]

MapCenter has a lot of weaknesses. I should be albe to have a much better system up within 2 weeks, 3 max. I'm pretty good at programming.

There are already too many sites setup for the sharing of maps. The result is that they're scattered all over and not nearly as useful as a more comprehensive collection in one or at most a few spots. And there are some advantages in using the cgpsmapper compiler available at that site that provides features beyond those in the free/shareware versions.

[-Oz-]

Peter, what are the sites. MapCenter is the only one I really found and it wasn't as easy to use as could be expected.

 

And what are the advantages? Maybe i should have it compile one of my maps rather than using the free version.

[peter]

Peter, what are the sites. MapCenter is the only one I really found and it wasn't as easy to use as could be expected.

 

And what are the advantages? Maybe i should have it compile one of my maps rather than using the free version.

Here are a few sites that have Garmin-compatible free maps:

http://home.wtal.de/noegs/freemaps.htm

http://rwsmaps.griffel.se/

http://www011.upp.so-net.ne.jp/mametaro/kanto-e.html

http://www.elsinga.net/maps.html

http://www.aracnet.com/~seagull/ORTopo/

 

I think these are all for letting others have access to some specific maps rather than also allowing uploads of additional shareable maps. But I'm concerned that spreading out the maps among more sites will reduce their usefulness.

 

Here's the item from the MapCenter FAQ on the compiler features:

 

"Q: What are the advantages of the online compiler? Is it better than freeware/shareware cGPSMapper?

 

A: In addition to all features of freeware version, online compiler supports all features available in registered shareware version (city and POI indexing, additional city information: country and region, additional POI information: country, region, city and description), some features of the standard version (direct support for ESRI format, irregular map bounds, not limited city and POI indexing, full POI address and additional description), some features of the professional edition (building numbering, searching for address, searching for intersection) and even routing (with some limitations)."

[GeoidPS]

1:xxxxxx is simply the ratio of the map distance to real world distance (ft/ft, in/in, m/m, etc). Hiking maps are commonly 1:63360 or 1:63.36K.

This would be 1" = 63360ft/(12x5280) or 1"=1 mile.

Edited May 14, 2006 by GeoidPS

[GeoidPS]

If using Mapsource to upload your custom map, it seems that only one map is compiled as its own group. I take it that each custom map created will be seen as a seperate product in Mapsource. Is there a procedure to group all the custom maps to show as one product which when toggled can select the custom maps?

 

This is per edit:

If I'm reading this correctly, when using cGPSmap, editing the last line in the test_pv.txt file each custom map is listed between [Files] and [End-files] which creates the custom mapset. Which line calls the actual name of the map set?

Edited May 15, 2006 by GeoidPS

[+Red90]

If you open the sample PV file that comes with the program (test_pv.txt), you will see all the command lines explained.

 

MapSetName = map name in GPS

Copy1,Copy2 = copyrights info

MapsourceName = map name in MapSource programm

CDSetName = CD set name - visible in MapSource menu

 

If you want to see the maps at the same time as other map sets, set the map to "transparent".

[+FourDoggies]

For those of you that make your own maps.....do you know of a freeward/shareware tool to convert DLGs to SHP files? I have done a few maps so far to learn the process, but my hang up is adding roads. I do not need detail roads or routable rods, mainly just something onthe maps for a point of reference.

 

Thanks!

 

Jeff

[-Oz-]

For those of you that make your own maps.....do you know of a freeward/shareware tool to convert DLGs to SHP files? I have done a few maps so far to learn the process, but my hang up is adding roads. I do not need detail roads or routable rods, mainly just something onthe maps for a point of reference.

 

I don't know how to convert them to .shp files but I use sdts2mp to conver the DLGs into .mp files.

 

Does anyone know where to find usgs data about camgrounds and stuff.

 

Also, does anyone know how to add POIs to gpsMapEdit

[GeoidPS]

I don't know if this is what you researched or not, but you may also want to try this link. I've currently got a project underway - small tests have worked well so far.

 

I have used the above web page as a guide to build several maps. I have been very happy with the results thus far. My first map was a tough one and took several tries to get just what I wanted. After doing a few maps it has become much easier. I also like how my homemade maps can be integrated with Mapsource. Now when I get ready for a hiking trip somewhere I look forward to putting a map together as part of the overall experience. I'll be using the most detailed of the maps I have made later this week for a trip to "The Great Sand Dunes" in Colorado.

 

Manyhatz

I'm using the free version of cGPSmapper. I have gotten as far as creating topo file with imported stream data (GPSmapedit), but can't seem to complie and create the map for Mapsource using cGPSmapper. I get an error message :

File cannot be open

POI info sorting

Layer>>>>>>>>>0<<<<<<<<generation

Nothing was imported into Layer0!

Aborting program due to errors. Check error message above.

Layer0 cannot be empty!

 

Any ideas?

[+Red90]

You need to have at least one thing in the lower levels, and nothing in the highest layer. For instance, if you have levels 0, 1, 2 and 3 created, there needs to be objects in 0, 1 and 2. Level 3 must be empty. This is all explained somewhere.

 

Make sure the levels are progressive. Bits for level 0 must be higher than level 1, etc..

 

You might want to join this Yahoo group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/map_authors/ it is where all the map makers hang out.

[+ejnewman]

I just followed the instructions and eventually got everything working. No high-res NHD for my area though.

[-Oz-]

No high-res NHD for my area though.

Glad you successfully made a map. If I may ask, what area?

 

I find the high-res NHD overkill. I modify the dbf files in excel and make it so things with names get one "type" and things without names get another. Then when i load the shapefile into mapedit I just delete the ones without names and assume they're not that important. Granted, I'm in arizona were 95% of the time 99% of the "streams" and "washes" don't have water anyway.

[+ejnewman]

No high-res NHD for my area though.

Glad you successfully made a map. If I may ask, what area?

 

I find the high-res NHD overkill. I modify the dbf files in excel and make it so things with names get one "type" and things without names get another. Then when i load the shapefile into mapedit I just delete the ones without names and assume they're not that important. Granted, I'm in arizona were 95% of the time 99% of the "streams" and "washes" don't have water anyway.

 

Champaign County, east central Illinois. There is a hig-res NHD area on the very west edge of the map I did, but the rest is all medium. I actually had to combine four different sub-areas from NHD because I'm on a high spot that is the source of several different rivers going in every direction. The medium res isn't too bad around here because a lot of the streams have been straightened into drainage ditches so there are lots of straight lines and lots of streams that definitely exist, but have no names.

[GeoidPS]

Here is my test_pv.txt file. Please note any glaring blunders.

Thanks

 

[Map]

FileName=custom1

MapVersion=100

ProductCode=62

Color=32

 

Levels=5

Level0=24

Level1=22

Level2=20

Level3=19

Level4=18

Level5=17

 

Zoom0=0

Zoom1=1

Zoom2=2

Zoom3=3

Zoom4=4

Zoom5=5

 

MapsourceName=custom1

MapSetName=CustomTopo

CDSetName=CustomTopo

 

Copy1=Garmin

Copy2=Stan

[End-Map]

 

[Files]

img=10000001.img

[END-Files]

[-Oz-]

You could probably change the MapsourceName, MapSetName, CDSetName to something useful. Other than that it looks good.

[+Red90]

You do realise that the levels in the PV file are for the Preview Map display, not the map tile itself? This is to show the plain boxes around the map tiles when zoomed out. As far as I know, there is no point to mor ethan the 2 levels for the preview map.

 

Normally, the default PV levels are:

 

Levels=2

Level0=14

Level1=13

Zoom0=5

Zoom1=6

 

The levels for the map tiles are set within the MP file.

Edited May 17, 2006 by Red90

[+paulamur]

I downloaded a map of Polk County Oregon from Mapcenter. I would like to try this on my 60Cx. I have 2.71 install so I can access the SD micro card as a Mass storage device. Can I just load the .img file onto the card? If so what directory should I create to put it into? I don't have any mapsource maps yet, so this would be a stop gap solution. Thanks.

[-Oz-]

I downloaded a map of Polk County Oregon from Mapcenter. I would like to try this on my 60Cx. I have 2.71 install so I can access the SD micro card as a Mass storage device. Can I just load the .img file onto the card? If so what directory should I create to put it into? I don't have any mapsource maps yet, so this would be a stop gap solution. Thanks.

No. You have to either use sendmap to send the map to your gpsr (sorry, can't find the url right now) or use cgpsmapper to make the .tdb and overview image then hack the registry to put it in mapsource. I normally go with the second (presumably more difficult) option to put the maps on my GPSr. Read this article for some help, especially part III.

 

See, this is one of the reasons mapcenter is a PIA. It does a great job of creating the maps but its still sooo difficult for the normal user to use them.

 

And, today, I just finished my 24k topo of Mt. Lemmon in Tucson, AZ. It includes summits, towers, trailheads, the main road on the mountain plus some other reference roads, creeks, tanks, a waterfall. All in all a much better map than the first one I made (must be time to go back and fix the first one).

[+paulamur]

Thanks, for the reply. I can see that it is a bit of work. So once I can view it in Mapsource then I can up load it. I'm assuming the Mapsource that came with the GPSr will work?

 

The Maps at mapcenter they have already been compiled, so I wouldn't need to do that again? Just do the edits to the redegistry for mapsource?

 

Sorry if these questions seem obvious, but I'm new to the Garmin world.

Edited May 17, 2006 by paulamur

[peter]

The Maps at mapcenter they have already been compiled, so I wouldn't need to do that again? Just do the edits to the redegistry for mapsource?

Since you don't currently have MapSource, I'd suggest you instead upload the MapCenter files to your GPS using either SendMap directly or using the Img2GPS program. I found the latter to be the easiest. The alternate ways are described at:

http://vip.hex.net/~dougs/GPSSM/index.html

(I'd recommend the 3rd method shown there for those who don't have MapSource.)

Edited May 17, 2006 by peter

[+paulamur]

Well it worked. Yesterday I had tried to connect sendmap to the 60Cx by putting it into USB Mass Storage mode. Today I just hooked up the GPS to the computer, ran sendmap, hit connect to GPS. It showed connected and identified the GPSr correctly, so I uploaded the a map, the GPSr rebooted, and there was a roadmap of Polk County, Oregon. It even shows the street names when I hover over them. Pretty cool, for a free map.

[+az_pistolero]

Anyone know how to take a calibrated DRGs and put them into Mapsource? For the moment, at least, I don't want to put them on the GPS, since my GPS V only can handle 20M of maps at any given moment.

 

I have the calibrated Digital Raster Graphics files in two formats for the entire state of Arizona:

1) TFW/TIF/FGD sets (one set per USGS quad)

2) Calibrated PICT (one file per quad -- generated by MacGPS Pro from the triplet above)

 

What I've seen so far on this thread seems to suggest downloading the DEMs but since I already have these... Thanks!

[+Red90]

The GPS only takes vector maps. No raster. Raster is slow, large and scales poorly.

[+az_pistolero]

Somewhere, I'd read that Garmin took their 1:100,000 topo maps from DRGs, so I'd figured I could at least make the MapSource app read calibrated DRGs somehow.

 

I'm not interested in putting the map on the GPS. At all but the tightest zoom, they'd be nearly useless on the GPS. I just want to use more detailed topos in MapSource for trip planning.

 

Right now, I have to move GSAK files over to my Mac to use MacGPS Pro, this would save some steps.

[indygpser]

I am trying to download a Shape File from the NHD GEODATABASE. I go through all the procedures, including entering my email and the file is never emailed to me. I have tried several times last night and this morning and still no file emailed to me. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[+ejnewman]

It doesn't email you the file, it sends you an email when the file is ready. The link to download the file is in the email. Sometimes it takes several hours. Make sure you put the right email into the website and check your mail spam folder to make sure it didn't accidently get flagged as spam.

[indygpser]

I don't know if this is what you researched or not, but you may also want to try this link. I've currently got a project underway - small tests have worked well so far.

 

I have used the above web page as a guide to build several maps. I have been very happy with the results thus far. My first map was a tough one and took several tries to get just what I wanted. After doing a few maps it has become much easier. I also like how my homemade maps can be integrated with Mapsource. Now when I get ready for a hiking trip somewhere I look forward to putting a map together as part of the overall experience. I'll be using the most detailed of the maps I have made later this week for a trip to "The Great Sand Dunes" in Colorado.

 

Manyhatz

I'm using the free version of cGPSmapper. I have gotten as far as creating topo file with imported stream data (GPSmapedit), but can't seem to complie and create the map for Mapsource using cGPSmapper. I get an error message :

File cannot be open

POI info sorting

Layer>>>>>>>>>0<<<<<<<<generation

Nothing was imported into Layer0!

Aborting program due to errors. Check error message above.

Layer0 cannot be empty!

 

Any ideas?

 

I'm getting the same error and I have went over everything a hundred times! My Level 0 is not freaking empty! I'm about to say the hell with it!

Edited May 21, 2006 by indygpser

[+Red90]

Yes, but is your highest level empty? I must be empty. Also make sure your levels are sequential.

 

Look through the .mp file and see if it looks correct.