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Logging Dnfs - Did Not Finds


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At a recent Cacher's Meet there was some discussion on how useful or not DNFs were. It would seem that most of us found them useful as an indicator of how hard a cache is, but many people do not log DNFs.

 

We must admit to not logging DNFs if those before us have already made lots of comments about coordinate problems, prefering to try again or email the cache owner. However if we really enjoyed the hunt, but had to eventually admit defeat [eg GCGAYP The Last of the Mohicans], we log it.

 

We have two caches that generate lots of emails form cachers who are are seeking help. In both cases logged DNFs are outnumbered by unlogged DNFs at a ratio of 3:1. In one case the cache has a Difficulty of 4 and although DNFs are under represented the impression we get from emails is that cachers expected it to be hard. Our problem cache is in the centre of Norwich and has a Difficulty of 3, but in this case we have had several emails from cachers who did not expect it to be "Challenging. An experienced cache hunter will find this challenging, and it could take up a good portion of an afternoon." We've rechecked the cache a couple of times and even got a virgin cacher to go round and there is no way that it is "Difficult. A real challenge for the experienced cache hunter - may require special skills or knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days / trips to complete." Some more DNFs would help we feel.

 

Most recently a cache owner removed DNFs, including ours, from their cache's log aparently because of strongly held views against logging DNFs.

 

+ Do you log or don't you log them?

+ Do you find them usefull?

+ Would you rather they were removed after they served their purpose (eg a muggled cache)?

+ Are they a badge of pride or a dunce's cap?

 

We would be really interested to hear your views.

Edited by Jango & Boba Fett
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Do you log or don't you them?

If I've been to the right area, and had a 'proper' look, then yes. If I wasn't able to solve a puzzle or get to the location, or there were muggles stopping me from hunting, I'd either not log it, or post a note.

 

Do you find them useful?

As a hider, very. They alert me to possible problems. As a finder (or a DNFer!) they remind me where I've been and make it easy for me to check back later and see if there was a genuine problem or if I was just being dumb.

 

Would you rather they were removed after they served their purpose (eg a muggled cache)?

No, they're a part of the history of that cache and should stay as a record.

 

Are they a badge of pride or a dunce's cap?

That would depend on if the cache was still there ^_^

Really, they're helpful things which tell you, the owner and those who follow as much useful information as a 'found' log does, I'd say.

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I log them, but only after I feel that I've given the cache area a good going over ... I'll often invest a few trips and a few hours looking before I'll log. Basically, if I feel I've absolutely checked everything but still couldn't find it, then I'll log it.

 

Sometimes, I'll go to a cache area but not have a lot of time to search or there will be other circumstances (such as muggles) that will prevent me from searching everything I deem as a possible hiding location. In such cases, I won't log a DNF until I've had time to return and check it out.

 

As a hider, I use a DNF as an indication from the seeker that they may be in need of a more explicit hint on a given cache. I'll usually offer a hint if they would like one after I see a DNF come in that indicates they really gave the search a good effort. About the only time I won't do this is if there is an FTF at stake or if there is something special about the cache that requires some thought to solve.

 

By all means, DNF's should remain with the log of the cache unless they give away some of the "secret" as to how it's hidden -or- if they communicate something misleading or incorrect (such as a posting of updated coordinates which are in fact, incorrect). Some people don't like them because they fear others may not seek their cache because it will be deemed too hard or potentially missing. I see the former as a challenge to make me want to go seek the cache and I see the latter simply remedied by a "Found" after the DNF's.

 

So, in short, log a DNF is you truly feel you've searched everything and everywhere and have spent a good deal of time doing so. Log a note if you've been there, but couldn't find it due to lack of time or other circumstances.

Edited by Lasagna
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Do you log or don't you them?

If I've been to the right area, and had a 'proper' look, then yes. If I wasn't able to solve a puzzle or get to the location, or there were muggles stopping me from hunting, I'd either not log it, or post a note.

 

Do you find them useful?

As a hider, very. They alert me to possible problems. As a finder (or a DNFer!) they remind me where I've been and make it easy for me to check back later and see if there was a genuine problem or if I was just being dumb.

 

Would you rather they were removed after they served their purpose (eg a muggled cache)?

No, they're a part of the history of that cache and should stay as a record.

 

Are they a badge of pride or a dunce's cap?

That would depend on if the cache was still there ^_^

Really, they're helpful things which tell you, the owner and those who follow as much useful information as a 'found' log does, I'd say.

 

Wot 'e said.

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I don't have any caches of my own yet, but as a seeker I find the DNF's useful as they can give an indication of the difficulty of the cache (unless they're posted by new cachers who I tend to assume are just inexperienced). I do log DNF's, although like others, I only do this if I feel I have truely seached everywhere a cache could be.

 

Plus it's a great feeling to find a cache when lots of others have failed - I finally found Display Valuable Lettered Arithmatic last week which has had a few DNF's including two my my own. Felt great! ^_^

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I log them for three reasons: firstly they may be helpful to the cache owner and other cachers, secondly they can sometimes be amusing to read and finally if I could find every cache I looked for it wouldn't be much of a game, would it?

 

The only DNF I have had on my first cache looks like the cacher was in completely the wrong place (unlike dozens of others) - now where's the smiley for "smug grin"

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always log your dnfs we did a cache today and couldnt find it along with nearly everyone else who has done it the owner then said that due to the number of dnfs he was adding a spoiler photo which someone used who had done it before and this time they found straight away

the point being if no one had logged there dnfs then the owner wouldnt know about this problem

also if we dont log dnfs then how is the owner to know there is a problem he could think it is still there when it has in reality gone missing

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I log DNFs if I have a proper chance to look and can't find, or there is some other impediment that the hider needs to know about - like the recomended parking no longer exists and I decided to look for another cache after I gave up looking for alternative parking.

 

As an owner of caches I love DNFs - they tell me if the cache is still challenging or if there are problems with it. What I hate is the people who can't find a cache but keep silent becasue they don't have the balls to say DNF, or even claim a find on the basis that the cache is missing and they would have found it but it has gone missing (even when it hasn't!) This happens a lot on the Central London micros.

 

My favourite DNF I read was for a cache in the Gobi desert It was something like "Was going to set off on the three day drivve to the cache site, but Bubonic Plague was reported in the area so changed my mind" Now that is info the hider and other finders need!

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+ Do you log or don't you log them?

I always log them

 

+ Do you find them useful?

They provide useful info to all parties

 

+ Would you rather they were removed after they served their purpose (eg a muggled cache)?

Anyone can delete there own logs, so if you want to remove that is up to you

 

+ Are they a badge of pride or a dunce's cap?

No not either of these, we all have bad days

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Our first attempt at finding a cache was a DNF. We searched for a good hour and a half before giving up and trudging home very deflated. After an exchange of e-mails with the owner it was determined that the box had been muggled, but even so we disappointedly logged a DNF because it was the honest thing to do. We'd looked and hadn't found it.

 

There is a great deal of pride taken by cachers in their numbers - how many caches they've found etc. Similarly I can't help thinking that there is an element of pride too in unblemished records that makes some people want to avoid logging DNFs even though they may have been genuinely defeated by the cache. As Mr Nibbler said, if there were never any DNFs then it wouldn't be much of a game would it?

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There is a great deal of pride taken by cachers in their numbers - how many caches they've found etc. Similarly I can't help thinking that there is an element of pride too in unblemished records that makes some people want to avoid logging DNFs even though they may have been genuinely defeated by the cache.

 

This is a bit silly of them, of course, because one's DNF list is private. (Or: "if you can't handle a list of your own "failures", maybe this isn't the sport for you!")

 

That said, I use my DNF list as a list of caches to go back and re-do one day. However, I doubt if I'll ever complete it - I have one in Croatia, for example. Occasionally when I see that one of my DNF caches has been archived, I think "yessss, one less to do", which is of course not quite the right spirit...

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+ Do you log or don't you log them?

Logged them all apart from the first cache I looked for before I bought the gps.

 

+ Do you find them useful?

Yes they work as a reminder of outstanding caches to go back to.

 

+ Would you rather they were removed after they served their purpose

No leave them they're part of the cache history.

 

+ Are they a badge of pride or a dunce's cap?

Neither unless you're really anal.

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Our problem is when do you log a DNF.... Our recent 'success' with Jango & Boba Fett's NC5 The Nelson Touch took us more than eight hours over three visits... should we have logged the DNF after the second trip when we thought we have solved all the clues but could not work out the cache position.

I agree that DNF logs are helpful to know that you are not the only one having problems with a cache, it also lets the owner know that there could be a problem. The cache in question has been live for nearly two months and the only logs are the two of us who have completed it has no one else tried are they still trying?????

So when would you log it

Dave

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I agree with all of the above.

 

I would also add that as a cache hider, I find a few DNFs a useful way of knowing that I have set the cache level about right, not just that there may be a problem. I don't want everybody to find every cache first time, but I don't want them to be ridiculously frustrating either. A DNF or two in the logs lets me know that not everybody can find my cache, which makes me think I have got it right.

 

As a finder, a series of DNFs lets me know that it may not be worth searching for ages for a cache, as it may be missing. Previous DNFs in the logs often contain details which help when you try to find the cache yourself.

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