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Thank You And Goodbye


Texsox
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For those abusive emails that filled my mailbox, that you for exposing your ignorance. On the board I moderate, you would have been banned for personal attacks. Here it seems like the culture, since one person is a moderator.

 

In my five years as a LNT trainer, I have never been subjected to such abuse in discussing the topic. I never said all cachers, I said those people who blindly follow an arrow, I assumed on a cacher forum, people would know that is a minority of cachers, or at least that was my assumption.

 

Anyone want to read my comment that cachers would be more likely to not abuse the environment because it would ruin the hide? Nope. No one quotes that.

 

Ban me if you like, but this is the worst experience I have ever had on any board dealing with any subjet. Will I start spouting generalities about geo cachers from now on? You bet. Except for BigGuyinTexas, she's cool. :huh:

 

So you drove me from the sport, congratulations.

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I haven't read any geocide notes lately... Do I get a prize for noticing this one?

 

Edited because it sounded quite harsh.

 

Texsox - as many will tell you - the forums are not geocaching central (contrary to us cheese counters' beliefs.) Don't let it spoil the sport for you. Hang around, hang on, and hang on to your sense of humor - it will help.

 

Momma Marauder

Edited by Morgan's Marauders
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And since you chose to malign those of us who contacted you directly and because I was one of them, I will post the entire text of my personal note to you here:

 

You've been involved with this sport for what, two weeks? Or have you been hiding in the woods for years, observing geocachers and gathering empirical data?

 

Should I even attempt to debate your assumption that LNT is the ultimate philisophy? There is no such thing as LNT. As humans move around the forest they always leave a trace. So do other animals. You dismissed the deer argument yet in some areas, next to bulldozers, deer are one of the major threats to the ecosystem. You even admitted that you use deer paths to follow while building trails. There are some who will argue that even the building of trails is counter to LNT and detrimental to the environment, yet you not only support it, you apparently participate in it.

 

I'm not one to blow my horn but since you're so quick to paint us as a bunch of careless despoilers of the land, that's me on the front page. And there are many of us who can put me to shame when it comes to what they do for the environment, but are never recongnized.

 

I don't see this as abusive. If you do, you have an awfully thin skin.

Edited by briansnat
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Team Dubbin where on earth did you get that nifty 'smilie ' from it is sssooooooo cool.

 

I don't know, but it is cool huh!!

jerry.gif

They asked a group of high school kids in my suburb what they want to be when they finish school and one kid says, "I want to be the guy on Jerry Springer that breaks up fights." :):):lol: Way to make mom and dad proud ...

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For those abusive emails that filled my mailbox, that you for exposing your ignorance. On the board I moderate, you would have been banned for personal attacks. Here it seems like the culture, since one person is a moderator.

 

In my five years as a LNT trainer, I have never been subjected to such abuse in discussing the topic. I never said all cachers, I said those people who blindly follow an arrow, I assumed on a cacher forum, people would know that is a minority of cachers, or at least that was my assumption.

 

Anyone want to read my comment that cachers would be more likely to not abuse the environment because it would ruin the hide? Nope. No one quotes that.

 

Ban me if you like, but this is the worst experience I have ever had on any board dealing with any subjet. Will I start spouting generalities about geo cachers from now on? You bet. Except for BigGuyinTexas, she's cool. :)

 

So you drove me from the sport, congratulations.

So-called forum abuse? Check.

 

"Worst experience on any board I've ever been on"? Check.

 

Never geocaching again? Check.

 

Been there, seen that. Unoriginal.

3

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...I'm not one to blow my horn but since you're so quick to paint us as a bunch of careless despoilers of the land, that's me on the front page. And there are many of us who can put me to shame when it comes to what they do for the environment, but are never recongnized.

You could have given them a better pic. :)

ccd97396-9e25-45f0-a077-6ba7ad4daf31.jpg

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...I'm not one to blow my horn but since you're so quick to paint us as a bunch of careless despoilers of the land, that's me on the front page. And there are many of us who can put me to shame when it comes to what they do for the environment, but are never recongnized.

You could have given them a better pic. :)

ccd97396-9e25-45f0-a077-6ba7ad4daf31.jpg

 

LOL, Like my beard?

Edited by briansnat
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Not sure what Tex's orgional post was but what I do know is that on this forum is that mentioning the environmental impact caused by geocachers has caused more flame wars then mentioning guns on backpacker.com forum.

One resent post on a cache of mine a cacher said he was ready to give up geocaching because folks had torn up the area so bad. On another cache people undid the bolts on the facilities near the cache, I edited the cache listing to not do that.

I agree with Brainsnat that humans just like any other animal leaves some impact on this planet as it moves about. The problem with geocaching and one you have to accept is that you will concentrate a lot of folks stomping around a give area for time period. Some one once stated that they had never seen a geotrail alls I could assume was they had only done Wal-Mart caches. I use geotrails to help find a cache almost as much as my GPSr, LOL.

But all said and done I don't try to destroy thing and the given location will dictate what and how I search.

I can feel Tex's pain and there are many thing that I can only hang my head and feel a degree of shame but then I can always hope for the best.

cheers

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Some one once stated that they had never seen a geotrail alls I could assume was they had only done Wal-Mart caches.

 

Well with over 500 cache hunts under my belt, I can count the geo trails I've found on one hand and in most cases it was just a little trampled grass.

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What is LNT?

 

LNT= Leave No Trace.

 

Check out www.lnt.org

 

its a set of outdoor ethics to guide how we conduct ourselves in the wilderness. They have work that is specific to different environments (ie desert vs rainforest vs seashore) and for certain activities (horseback, caving I think, etc)

 

It was brought up because of some idiots thinking caches are trash/litter.

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My first interest , family activity, is Prospecting. We camp in the desert , forest , and near rivers depending on the season. We use no mechanized equipment only a pick and shovel. Some environmentalists hate us. We dig holes , estract the gold and return the area to the condition we found it. We have seen Desert Tortise dens in the old timer tailing piles. It's easier for the totise to dig in the processed soil. I see new trees sprouting in the holes we filled the year before. We leave no trash behind and often carry out trash left by the Friday night party crowd. To tell the truth we don't see much of that kind of thing in the remote areas we use. We have been Geocaching for a few months now and really enjoy it. I really can't say I LNT but I can say I respect the land and want my children and theirs to see it, camp on it,dig in it, and enjoy the peace of mind I get by spending a few days away from the stress of the city life.

I hope you don't see this post as a negative toward anyone or any group. That would never be ny intention.

timk54

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It was brought up because of some idiots thinking caches are trash/litter.

Some of those idiots would be right in some cases, where caches are not attended to at all. To some extent we need to be more vigilant about policing those caches that just get left behind when the cacher drops out. I don't have an a large number of finds, but I do know I have found 10 like that in the last 6 months.--hides not registered to an active member in varying stages of decay.

 

GCN9VW

 

A private E Mail response promises attention by January 10. Locally there are quite a number of these types out in the field.

 

But we have to remember the reality, geocaching is really a light impact pursuit-- and I for one am not ready to just sit in the recliner watching the nature channel on the tube.

Edited by Packanack
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... I don't have an a large number of finds, but I do know I have found 10 like that in the last 6 months.--hides not registered to an active member in varying stages of decay.

Just out of curiousity, how do you know these caches are not listed somewhere else?

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It was brought up because of some idiots thinking caches are trash/litter.

 

Some of those idiots would be right in some cases, where caches are not attended to at all. To some extent we need to be more vigilant about policing those caches that just get left behind when the cacher drops out.

If the original cache was placed in a long lasting ammo box instead of a tupperware or plastic coffee can It would eventually become a living time capsule and not trash at all. Some of the gold claims I work have old cans, old tools, and in some cases old buildings on them. they are all considered historical and connect us to the past. It's really nice to think about the life and times old timers who originally worked these areas long before there were cars and trucks, trailers and mobile homes and even penicillan and radio.

Will future generations see caches that are 100 years old and ponder the same thoughts about those who were here befor them?

timk54

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The forums are where geocachers wax political. It's inevitable some toes get stepped on. So don't post/read, just cache. Unless, of course, you have an opinion of your own to push, in which case, don't get upset when someone disagrees--vehemently or otherwise.

 

Don't get me wrong, some folks have torqued me off pretty good in the forums. But I don't let them chase me away. If you do, they win.

 

tink....tink

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It was brought up because of some idiots thinking caches are trash/litter.

Some of those idiots would be right in some cases, where caches are not attended to at all. To some extent we need to be more vigilant about policing those caches that just get left behind when the cacher drops out. I don't have an a large number of finds, but I do know I have found 10 like that in the last 6 months.--hides not registered to an active member in varying stages of decay.

 

But the environment doesn't know (or care) if the cache owner is active or not. As long as people continue to find that cache, and presumably do a tiny bit of maintenance occasionally, the cache is active. It is very common that non-owners will keep a cache alive.

 

I don't agree that geocaches qualify as litter as long as they are active. They are placed for a purpose and are hidden or disguised. Geocachers often remove litter along the way to or at a cache site, litter that is most assuredly placed by non-cachers.

 

I have no problem, though, with local cachers removing containers where the owner is inactive or non-responsive and there is no local interest in keeping the cache alive. Some people seem to think that a cache is a sacred item that is not to be touched, maintained or removed with out the all-important owner approval. But in my travel/caching territory there are hundreds of caches placed by people with no commitment to maintenance. Its no big deal if one of these caches gets an SBA post followed by removal of the container by a local cacher. Equally import though, it is ok if the locals and even visitors to keep abandoned caches alive.

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Speaking of "tink...tink..." and LNT:

 

I had the opportunity some decade or so ago to hike across central and South America. You're slashing along clearing a trail when suddenly: "tink!" - your machete hits stone. A little more work, and you realize that there's a 200ft stone building in your way. In just a few hundred years, the jungle reclaims an entire civilization worth of "damage". Can't see it from the air, can't see it from the ground.

 

"That's great in a jungle!" one might cry...

 

In the deserts they spend years excavating hundreds of feet deep to get to a new site that someone happened to find some microscopic hint of in some ancient texts.

 

Everything in between is just that - in between.

 

My take? Simply this: I don't care for ATV's 4 wide ripping up the woods - 'cause it's butt-ugly for years.

 

Hikers "Destroying the land" for all eternity? Puhlease. Not buying it. Here's fifty cents. If you can find a payphone, call someone more gullible.

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It was brought up because of some idiots thinking caches are trash/litter.

Some of those idiots would be right in some cases, where caches are not attended to at all. To some extent we need to be more vigilant about policing those caches that just get left behind when the cacher drops out.

 

But the people who say "cache is trash" are NOT doing it on a case by case basis, but a blanket statement.

 

they ignore the fact that caches are no more trash then:

 

*journals left in caves or on top of peak for people to sign in when they get their (which has gone on for decades)

 

*medal fire rings, preset wires for bear bags, picnic tables, trail signs, wasp/bug traps, animal traps, measurement/test equipment and the like that are PURPOSELY left in many of our parks and wilderness areas (many times by the same land management people who call caches trash)

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Just out of curiousity, how do you know these caches are not listed somewhere else?

 

I don't. But I do know that they are listed on Geocaching.com and the geosite notice did not reference any other site and the people who have logged it are known to me personally.

 

If the original cache was placed in a long lasting ammo box

 

This one was GCG7E4--

 

But in my travel/caching territory there are hundreds of caches placed by people with no commitment to maintenance. (I added emphasis)

 

Sounds like it could make for a problem to me, not an earth shattering problem, but more of a public relations problem and really when land managers review a use they are concerned about PR. So all I am saying is that a trashed cache that sits trashed for months should be picked up . But again the reality of geocaching is that it has insignificant impact. We are not cutting the tops off of mountaintops to strip mine coal afterall. So the OP was over reacting to our hobby.

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Who cares? When I'm out geocaching, it's all about me and my enjoyment. If some grass or plants get killed in the process, oh well. I'm tired of the ultra-environmentalists getting in the way of my fun. They say that suicides come in packs. Let's just hope some more tree-huggers commit geocide <wiping the tear from my eye>

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Just out of curiousity, how do you know these caches are not listed somewhere else?

 

I don't. But I do know that they are listed on Geocaching.com and the geosite notice did not reference any other site and the people who have logged it are known to me personally.

 

If the original cache was placed in a long lasting ammo box

 

This one was GCG7E4--

 

But in my travel/caching territory there are hundreds of caches placed by people with no commitment to maintenance. (I added emphasis)

 

Sounds like it could make for a problem to me, not an earth shattering problem, but more of a public relations problem and really when land managers review a use they are concerned about PR. So all I am saying is that a trashed cache that sits trashed for months should be picked up . But again the reality of geocaching is that it has insignificant impact. We are not cutting the tops off of mountaintops to strip mine coal afterall. So the OP was over reacting to our hobby.

 

Sounds like maybe a policy is needed. I'm not a huge fan of rules, but there should be some process by which we can remove abandoned caches, so if the owner comes back and says "what the heck?" we can point to the process and the condition of the cache as justification.

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