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I can't seem to think my way through this problem. There is a 1/4 million dollar art structure in my town that is simply ridiculous, and I thought it worthy of a cache. I placed a very ordinary micro....the interest was not really the cache itself, but my desire to share this structure and the hilarious story behind it with other cachers.

Unfortunately, it's 245 feet from another cache, and was rejected.

The story with the cache is pretty darn long, and if I tried to make a multicache the page would get way too cumbersome. I have two other sites nearby with similiar unusual appeal that I have not placed yet, but they come with their own stories and pictures, and I can't see combining them.

If I have people go to this art structure and then go 300 feet farther to get the cache, I would still have to list the art structure's coordinates, and it would be rejected again.

I considered putting the cache on an (alternative site), but the story was too long by their standards and I couldn't use it all.

How can I make this cache work?

Thanks in advance.

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Here's one option... can you move it far enough away from the other cache that it's outside of 528' while still close enough to the artwork that the description is meaningful?

 

If not, occasionally a revewer may make an exception to the proximity guideline if there is a clear obstacle separating the two caches... a river or a major highway that can't be crossed on foot, for example. They probably won't do it if both caches are in the same block, or if you can walk directly between the two, though. I'd contact the reviewer and discuss it with them if you think that's the case. Still, it couldn't hurt to move the cache 200-250 feet further away from the existing cache if you can.

 

edit: after reading your post again, I see where you mentioned that you are concerned about moving the cache away from the artwork. Why not list the coordinates to the artwork as a separate waypoint on the cache page using the additional waypoints feature? If the cache is a few hundred feet away but still in view of the art, I can't imagine that people wouldn't walk over to take a closer look at the unusual work.

Edited by DavidMac
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Ask the cache owner if they would mind either moving or archiving their cache. maybe you could work together to place a multi in the area.

If you don't ask, the answer is always "no".

 

Thanks, but the other cache is part of an interesting series and at a worthwhile spot. The problem with moving it to the 528 foot distance is that there are some natural obstacles that make it impossible to do so and remain within sight of the bizzare sculpture. One might easily do the other cache and miss this sculpture, though, it's behind a building and doesn't catch the eye til you get up close.

This structure is officially called the Tidal Bowl, or Tidal Clock, but it is locally known as the Tide-E-Bowl. The cache would be pointless without the story that goes with it.

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Make it a puzzle cache. Provide the coordinates for the artwork, something thereon gives you the necessary clue to solve for the cache coordinates. It can be an easy puzzle, it just requires that you stop and view the artwork.

 

Then wouldn't I have to make it a 3 stop tour? I can't start out with the coordinates of the artwork, even if the seeker would just be going there to count something and move on, can I?

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Make it a puzzle cache. Provide the coordinates for the artwork, something thereon gives you the necessary clue to solve for the cache coordinates. It can be an easy puzzle, it just requires that you stop and view the artwork.

 

That would make it an offset and because the posted coordinates are too close to another cache it would likely be rejected.

 

Here is an idea. Place a traditional cache nearby, then a second "bonus cache" at the structure. In inside your regular cache you can put a piece of paper inside with the story behind the object and the coordinates for the bonus cache. Then who are interested can go see the object. Of course the bonus cache won't be listed on this site, which means that there is no proximity issue.

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Make it a puzzle cache. Provide the coordinates for the artwork, something thereon gives you the necessary clue to solve for the cache coordinates. It can be an easy puzzle, it just requires that you stop and view the artwork.

 

That would make it an offset and because the posted coordinates are too close to another cache it would likely be rejected.

 

Here is an idea. Place a traditional cache nearby, then a second "bonus cache" at the structure. In inside your regular cache you can put a piece of paper inside with the story behind the object and the coordinates for the bonus cache. Then who are interested can go see the object. Of course the bonus cache won't be listed on this site, which means that there is no proximity issue.

No, it would be a puzzle, not an offset. I can build a puzzle that requires you to stop at other caches, thus the distance would be zero. There would be no container at the artwork, just something on the piece that you need to solve the puzzle.

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Well, the problem with the bonus cache idea is that then I'd be placing a full sized cache just anywhere I could find a spot, and in our quaint little historic downtown, I might have to go a ways. How many people will then make the effort to go see this thing, I don't know.

A puzzle might be possible.......

I might just have to "flush" the Tide-E-Bowl idea, or reduce the writing so it can be listed on the other site. It's not my writing, though, and I hate to butcher a good story with my editing.

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Go find the other cache, toss it in the trash, and log it missing.

The owner will replace it. You toss it out again.

After about 4 iterations of this, the owner will give up and archive it.

 

To accelerate the process smear the other caches hiding spot with lots of doggy doody and used gum for the owner to deal with when he/she rehides it.

 

Of course you know, I'm just kidding... :)

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Go find the other cache, toss it in the trash, and log it missing.

The owner will replace it. You toss it out again.

After about 4 iterations of this, the owner will give up and archive it.

 

To accelerate the process smear the other caches hiding spot with lots of doggy doody and used gum for the owner to deal with when he/she rehides it.

 

Of course you know, I'm just kidding... :)

Best idea I've read all day, except for the last part.

 

Briansnat's suggestion looks good. In fact, rather than create a new cache, ask the owner of the nearby cache if you can place a detour slip into that cache. Then no new cache is required at all.

 

Personally, I'd just say, "Fuhgetabowtit".

Edited by salmoned
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I've got an idea-can someone tell me if this would be "legal"?

I hide my micro as close as I can, within easy walking distance, but within the guidelines. And, yes, I know some people hate micros, but this is an extremely difficult downtown area to try and squeeze in a full sized cache......The micro would have within it the coordinates for the Tide-E-Bowl. To claim a find, you must find and sign the micro, and e-mail me a certain bit of information that can be gotten only by viewing the sculpture. This way, I can still feature the sculpture on the cache page, because, again, the story is the thing.

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<Snips> I have two other sites nearby with similiar unusual appeal that I have not placed yet, but they come with their own stories and pictures, and I can't see combining them.

 

If I have people go to this art structure and then go 300 feet farther to get the cache, I would still have to list the art structure's coordinates, and it would be rejected again.

 

I considered putting the cache on an (alternative site), but the story was too long by their standards and I couldn't use it all.

 

How can I make this cache work?

Thanks in advance.

 

You say you have two other sites nearby with similiar 'unusual' appeal that you have not placed yet. Why not make them a puzzle cache, with the last one leading to the Cords of the art structure, where they could stand before it and have a picture taken with it in order to log all the finds. Or instead of the picture, place the log book at the structure, in case no one has a camera handy.

 

That way they can see the 'unusual appeal' you spoke about by finding the first two caches you've placed, then they could move to the art structure to log their find.

 

So you would only need the cords for the first cache placed on the page. The first would take you to the second, the second would take you to the art structure where you would log in all three finds.

 

That way you're far enough away from any one elses cache and they get to see some things hidden that would not normaly be seen around your fair city.

 

And along with the story, I'm sure you'll get some great log entries, and maybe some funny pictures too.

 

It's a win-win situation.

 

Cache on! :)

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1) List it on another site. No proximity issue. Not as many finders.

2) Make it an eazy puzzle. List it here. Not as many finders but more than another site. (Subtrace 22 from the year this art was dedicated, you can walk to the cache from there).

3) Hide it 528' from the other cache but within site of the art. State as much on your cache page (Placed here due to proximity rules but if I can direct your attention to the SouthWest you can see...) List it here.

 

I'd avoid a multi cache.

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I've got an idea-can someone tell me if this would be "legal"?

I hide my micro as close as I can, within easy walking distance, but within the guidelines. And, yes, I know some people hate micros, but this is an extremely difficult downtown area to try and squeeze in a full sized cache......The micro would have within it the coordinates for the Tide-E-Bowl. To claim a find, you must find and sign the micro, and e-mail me a certain bit of information that can be gotten only by viewing the sculpture. This way, I can still feature the sculpture on the cache page, because, again, the story is the thing.

 

Just to clear up a few things. All stages of a multi-cache or offset cache including virtual stages must be more than 528 feet away from any stage of an existing cache including virtual stages. We can waive the 528 foot guideline for grandfathered virtual caches, webcam caches and bogus posted coordinates for puzzle caches.

 

This cache would not work as you describe it. Since visiting the sculpture would be required to complete the cache then the proximity guideline would still be applied to the coordinates for the sculpture. You can make the Tide-E-Bowl and 'optional' bonus stage for those people who want to learn a little local history, but if you make it required then it will have to be treated like any other waypoint for the cache.

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You know, the primary reason that I can see for the 1/10mi prohibition is to lesson the impact on the land and to satisfy land managers. Moving it to another site in order to get around that is really just destructive to the hobby in-and-of itself.

 

Have you considered renting a crane and flatbed and just moving the "artwork" someplace less "cache-dense"?

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Another option would be to waymark the unusual art object. If there isn't a category for unusual art objects, start one! :)

 

With Waymarking, I'm enjoying my visits to interesting spots without the distraction of searching for the wet piece of paper inside the film canister. There's already a cache to get me to the general area. While I'm there, I will search for nearby waymarks.

 

Figuring out a way to hide a micro in a cache dense area to feature an immovable object is a square peg-round hole challenge.

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Another option would be to waymark the unusual art object. If there isn't a category for unusual art objects, start one! :o

 

With Waymarking, I'm enjoying my visits to interesting spots without the distraction of searching for the wet piece of paper inside the film canister. There's already a cache to get me to the general area. While I'm there, I will search for nearby waymarks.

 

Figuring out a way to hide a micro in a cache dense area to feature an immovable object is a square peg-round hole challenge.

 

That would insure that it is NEVER visited. :blink:

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Another option would be to waymark the unusual art object. If there isn't a category for unusual art objects, start one! :blink:

 

With Waymarking, I'm enjoying my visits to interesting spots without the distraction of searching for the wet piece of paper inside the film canister. There's already a cache to get me to the general area. While I'm there, I will search for nearby waymarks.

 

Figuring out a way to hide a micro in a cache dense area to feature an immovable object is a square peg-round hole challenge.

 

That would insure that it is NEVER visited. :o

 

True that, and besides, the OP is looking for a geocaching solution (if there is one). Waymarking isn't the answer to every question.

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Since I've put so much work into this, including stuff besides the forums, like visiting the Historical Society and spending a good part of a day trying to figure out how to get a picture onto the cache page (bumbling), I hate to let it go. It has been agreed that I can put it 528 feet away from the other cache and suggest that people stroll over and look at the thing, but I cannot require that they do so. so, that's what I'll do. Trouble is finding the right spot, even for a micro. One direction is the other cache, another way and I fall into the sea, and the two other directions I bounce into buildings. Was out today and found a spot I would have been quite content with. It was 478 feet away. Aargh! There's a perfectly acceptable hiding spot at the Tide-E-Bowl that cannot be used. Such is life.

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At 478ft away - I'd resubmit it. Tell your reviewer you think it's 500ft away. 22ft of error in your GPS is reasonable. Then the reviewer will assume 30ft of error off of your 500ft is reasonable. Voila! 530ft.

 

It's become obvious to me that the guidelines are hardly even that. If there's any question, just make stuff up and odds-on are, it's good to go.

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At 478ft away - I'd resubmit it. Tell your reviewer you think it's 500ft away. 22ft of error in your GPS is reasonable. Then the reviewer will assume 30ft of error off of your 500ft is reasonable. Voila! 530ft.

 

It's become obvious to me that the guidelines are hardly even that. If there's any question, just make stuff up and odds-on are, it's good to go.

 

Except that her reviewer is reading & posting to this thread. :blink:

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At 478ft away - I'd resubmit it. Tell your reviewer you think it's 500ft away. 22ft of error in your GPS is reasonable. Then the reviewer will assume 30ft of error off of your 500ft is reasonable. Voila! 530ft.

 

It's become obvious to me that the guidelines are hardly even that. If there's any question, just make stuff up and odds-on are, it's good to go.

I like the way you think. :lol:

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At 478ft away - I'd resubmit it. Tell your reviewer you think it's 500ft away. 22ft of error in your GPS is reasonable. Then the reviewer will assume 30ft of error off of your 500ft is reasonable. Voila! 530ft.

 

It's become obvious to me that the guidelines are hardly even that. If there's any question, just make stuff up and odds-on are, it's good to go.

 

Except that her reviewer is reading & posting to this thread. :lol:

 

Seriously, though, my comment is a carry-over from another thread. I don't actually believe my post to be the case in most instances. I think, just like people in general, some reviewers are more susceptible to bulls...pucky than are others.

Edited by Adrenalynn
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This is totally off topic, of course, but did you know that after your cache is approved, you can move it a short distance and change the coordinates without re-submitting it. So, if a tree falls on your cache, or you see a geo-trail developing, you can adjust accordingly. I don't know what the maximum distance is, maybe 1/10 of a mile?

(And I thought I was in trouble before :lol:)

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This is totally off topic, of course, but did you know that after your cache is approved, you can move it a short distance and change the coordinates without re-submitting it. So, if a tree falls on your cache, or you see a geo-trail developing, you can adjust accordingly. I don't know what the maximum distance is, maybe 1/10 of a mile?

(And I thought I was in trouble before :lol:)

 

Yes but if your ever vigilant reviewer noticed that your cache had moved to the spot previously denied that would be a violation of the listing guidelines and can lead to your cache being archived. :lol:

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This is totally off topic, of course, but did you know that after your cache is approved, you can move it a short distance and change the coordinates without re-submitting it. So, if a tree falls on your cache, or you see a geo-trail developing, you can adjust accordingly. I don't know what the maximum distance is, maybe 1/10 of a mile?

(And I thought I was in trouble before :lol:)

 

Yes but if your ever vigilant reviewer noticed that your cache had moved to the spot previously denied that would be a violation of the listing guidelines and can lead to your cache being archived. :lol:

 

Not to mention having your head smashed in and your heart cut out, your liver removed and your bowels unplugged and your nostrils raped and your bottom burned off and your pen.........

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They could just toss me into the Tide-E-Bowl, it would be a fitting end. If this cache ever does get published, I'm afraid it's been earmarked for Team Misguided's watch list. :lol:

 

When I'm done with the 72,000lb excavator, I could bring it down so you could use it to move the Tide-E-Bowl. We'd probably get a discount on the weekly rental rate.

 

Or, you could use it to bury Team Misguided, the hider of the other cache, or anyone you didn't like...

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There are several caches in a park near me. It is in a busy suburban area, yet remains a quiet 250 acre nature preserve. Two caches are at very interesting points as they are displayed in there descriptions. Two others are just in the woods. When you find the other ammo box, it tells you to make sure you check out surrounding caches and also a very neat structure XXX feet to the South.

 

Why not post the story about the artwork on your cache page, then explain that the artwork is not part of the find, just rather an interesting point near the cache. Then place the cache somewhere close by with a log, and the "directions" not the coordinates to the artwork. Then and only then a person could choose if they want to see the artwork that the story is about.

 

Hope this is legal. I am very new to geocaching, but I thought it a pretty well planned idea, and I did visit the other sites.

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At 478ft away - I'd resubmit it. Tell your reviewer you think it's 500ft away. 22ft of error in your GPS is reasonable. Then the reviewer will assume 30ft of error off of your 500ft is reasonable. Voila! 530ft.

 

It's become obvious to me that the guidelines are hardly even that. If there's any question, just make stuff up and odds-on are, it's good to go.

 

Except that her reviewer is reading & posting to this thread. :lol:

 

one word to solve that: "sock-monkey" :lol:

Edited by Confucius' Cat
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At 478ft away - I'd resubmit it. Tell your reviewer you think it's 500ft away. 22ft of error in your GPS is reasonable. Then the reviewer will assume 30ft of error off of your 500ft is reasonable. Voila! 530ft.

 

It's become obvious to me that the guidelines are hardly even that. If there's any question, just make stuff up and odds-on are, it's good to go.

 

Except that her reviewer is reading & posting to this thread. :)

 

one word to solve that: "sock-monkey" ^_^

Except that the archived cache page is still in our records and our minds. We have a habit of catching that stuff. Nice try though. ^_^

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We have a few caches around here that are technically closer than 528 ft. from each other. I believe the newer one was approved because it is at a very different altitude than the one nearby. On a map the caches appear close, but one can not simply stroll the 330 ft. from one cache to the next.

 

Is there anyplace you could use that has say "a bird's eye view" of the artwork? Since you are talking about a downtown area, a parking structure, rooftop deck? Is there a unique space that would allow the reviewer to be flexible with the guidelines but still get the cachers to appreciate your story?

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It's a Victorian Seaport-no parking garages. Again, I found a nice little hiding place 478 feet away that would be fine. It's nice enough in itself, with a fine view of the water and marina, and it's a rather uncrowded spot. Then there would be a little waterfront series to do-this new cache, then you go by the cache that's too close to the Tide-E-Bowl, then the Tide-E-Bowl itself, then a cache on the wharf. It would be only sensible to walk between the caches, so it would be natural to stop and have a look at this thing. 478 feet is just not quite far enough, though. I could go another 70 feet and place a perfectly legal cache. There is a bench, and there is some metal underneath, so I could pop in the usual magnetic key holder. Problem is, 70 feet makes quite a difference in atmosphere. This spot is teeming with people, and the bench is used once or twice daily by people awaiting a tour boat. I would hate to hunt a cache here, and I refuse to place one. And, I personally have seen enough magnetic key holders on benches at this point.

I already know where I'm going to have to place the cache. Not thrilled with it either, but it will have to do. When the cache is up, I'll post a link here; you can all see if you like the story.

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I've been working on something which is designed to offer a tour of the area. It is a multiple, but not multiple hidden caches. The multiple waypoints used to find the cache and sign the log are "information gathering virtuals". You may know what I mean. You gather information from a sign to be used to find the next coordinates. Somehow it doesn't seem as though I'd need a clearance of 600 feet for them. I have one of these virtuals near an existing cache, but I'm hoping to get around it by listing my waypoint far enough away from the other cache, but not so far away that the person can see the virtual and then walk over to it and get the information they need to find the final cache.

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Thank you to all who participated in this thread. If any of you are interested, this is the best that could be done to solve it; and the story of the Tide-E-Bowl. After I re-submitted it, it took about 5 minutes to get approved.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...b5-dc4f358e634d

Nicely done BB's :laughing:

I look forward to visiting this with my family when we are in town this summer. I always wondered what that thing was... "art project" never made the list.

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I didn't read every post here in detail, but...

 

Perhaps you could collaborate with the other cache owner. Transform his cache into a "his and your" multi. Hide the coords to his cache in a micro or even a nano at your artwork site, change the cache page for his to make it a multi, and Ta-DAA!

 

The only hitch would be that previous finders would already know the "final" coords, but how many people go do caches twice? All new lookers wouldn't be any the wiser after the new cache description was posted.

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