Jump to content

Stolen Caches In The Adks


Recommended Posts

Since Feb 06 , there has been a geo bandit , using the web site and going in and stealing the caches from below Forestport through Blue Mtn Lake NY. We're talking over 25 caches so far!!!Everyone is very bummed out....and rethinking what to do with the "summer season" ( most visitors) coming through the north country.

Any thoughts on how to discourage these bandit(s)?

Link to comment

Sounds like a no win situation ;) You could print appeals to the culprit and place them in every nearby cache, but I doubt that would discourage them. Some people are just, well to put it lightly jerks. Game cameras were mentioned, but I wouldn't think that would amount to much. It's a crying shame, that's for sure.

Link to comment

Lived in an area that had this problem. The only thing you can do is wait them out, evetually they get bored. the trick is to not discuss it on line, they love the publicity. Diable caches that get stolen and wait 4 weeks before putting out a new one. You may also want to look at what they are stealing if these are caches that are low terrain rated, put out cac hes that involve a hike.

Link to comment

You could make a new cache and buy a digital scouting game camera. The camera attaches to a tree and will take a picture when something crosses its path. You can find em at hunting supply stores. That way you coud get a picture of the idiot and start posting it up.

 

I'd be afraid the camera would be stolen along with the cache.

Link to comment

You could make a new cache and buy a digital scouting game camera. The camera attaches to a tree and will take a picture when something crosses its path. You can find em at hunting supply stores. That way you coud get a picture of the idiot and start posting it up.

 

I'd be afraid the camera would be stolen along with the cache.

 

yep game cams are often suggested in helping apprehend cache theives, but most people don't realize they are as vulnerable as a cache is. I frequent a hunting forum where they have a thread just for people to report cams that have been stolen so people can keep an eye out for them on Ebay and such.

Link to comment

We have had a Cache Maggot operating in South East Idaho for over a year. Our average survival time for a cache is less than a month.. In many cases the Maggot was FTF. We have our suspicions, but have never been able to prove who it is. This individual is very good at what he does. Our only defense has been to increase the difficulty of our caches or to plant caches further outside of Pocatello. He doesn't seem to want to go further than a few miles outside of town. I am afraid if you Cache Maggot is as creative as this guy you are doomed.

 

:mad:

Link to comment

Lived in an area that had this problem. The only thing you can do is wait them out, evetually they get bored. the trick is to not discuss it on line, they love the publicity. Diable caches that get stolen and wait 4 weeks before putting out a new one. You may also want to look at what they are stealing if these are caches that are low terrain rated, put out cac hes that involve a hike.

 

For now, will take yours and NFA's advice....thanks

Link to comment

Okay, I admit to being a part of the Geocachers Against Geocaching group. We're a loosely organized group that believes geocaches are trash and must be CITOed. Other geocachers are just stuffed shirts and need to be put in their place. Anyone wanting to join, just let us know. Don't call us, we'll call you... :mad:

Link to comment
Any thoughts on how to discourage these bandit(s)?

 

Depends on their motives. The overwhelming majority of cache thieves are teens or maladjusted adults looking for attention. Ignore them by quietly replacing your caches and not posting angry logs on the cache pages and threads in the forums. When they get no attention they tire quickly and move on to spraypainting their names on overpasses.

 

There is a second, much smaller segment of cache thieves who are self appointed, do gooder, enviro-Nazis who are on a mission to remove the scourge of geocaching from the earth. They are harder to deal with because they are smugly certain they saving the planet. Often they are veteran hikers, so placing a cache 5 miles from the trailhead won't deter them. Ignoring them may help somewhat, but because of their fervor the only way to really deal with them is to keep placing caches in such numbers that they will have to focus their lives on stealing caches. Hopefully they will one day realize that we largely have the same goals and they are better off focusing on real environmental threats.

 

A third group is disaffected geocachers. They have a grudge against this website, or feel wronged by some locals, or whatever and are out to spoil everyone's fun. Once again, ignoring them is the best avenue.

 

Unfortunatley, our sport is dependent on the good will and decency of others and there are some people out there who aren't decent.

Link to comment
Night Stalker

post Today, 01:36 PM

Post #11

 

Premium Member

 

 

Posts: 1,087

Joined: 24-May 02

From: Chubbuck, Idaho

 

 

 

We have had a Cache Maggot operating in South East Idaho for over a year. Our average survival time for a cache is less than a month.. In many cases the Maggot was FTF. We have our suspicions, but have never been able to prove who it is. This individual is very good at what he does. Our only defense has been to increase the difficulty of our caches or to plant caches further outside of Pocatello. He doesn't seem to want to go further than a few miles outside of town. I am afraid if you Cache Maggot is as creative as this guy you are doomed.

 

General rule: difficult caches are found much less often. Puzzle caches may be the thing, or long hikes? Evaluate was has been stolen.

Link to comment

Cache maggot got all 8 of ours over the weekend.They were some nice caches.Very very bummed.Its easy for others to say do nothing when its not happening in their area.We have had over 60 caches stolen in the past 8 months in the area.Sucks...

Link to comment

Cache maggot got all 8 of ours over the weekend.They were some nice caches.Very very bummed.Its easy for others to say do nothing when its not happening in their area.We have had over 60 caches stolen in the past 8 months in the area.Sucks...

 

Giving the maggot the attention he craves certainly isn't going to help your cause.

Link to comment

Because Im nosey, I looked at your caches. I saw that many of them were members only. Were they members only before the cache maggot stole your caches? If so, I think you should be able to see who looked at your cache pages. Maybe that would help you identify the maggot.

 

(Really like that term cache maggot. Much more appropriate than cache thief.)

Although I am a big advocate of members-only status for many extreme caches and also for most at-danger caches, and despite the fact that I love browsing the audit logs for our own caches, I must remind you that the audit logs will show only those folks who actually loaded the web page on a browser. In our modern "high-tech" era, there are now many other ways, including PQs and other electronic queries, whereby a "site visitor" may donwload all needed information from your cache listing page without ever having to visit the page, and thus such a visitor will not leave an audit log trail.

 

As have stated in other threads and in other venues, in such situations where the maggot problem is chronic and pervasive rather than infrequent and sporadic, I am a big advocate of using all of the following techniques to foil cache maggots, and to at least force them to leave an audit trail if they must persist in pursuing their activities; these measures tend to prevent other problems as well:

  • 1. temporarily disable listing for cache in question.
  • 2. move cache to a new hiding spot, one near the old spot, but far enough from it that a brute-force search done lacking the (new and correct) waypoint coordinates will not result in finding the cache.
  • 3. convert cache to Premium member-only cache (PMOC) status, if it is not already a PMOC cache.
  • 4. convert cache to a riddle/puzle cache type; you will need reviewer assistance on this one, and you will need to explain to the reviewer what you are doing and why.
  • 5. revise cache listing page: do NOT display (new and revised) cache hide coordinates anywhere on the cache listing page, neither in the main listing at top nor in the publicly-viewable waypoint list contained in page body. Rather, disclose in those spots only the waypoint coordinates for suggested parking, or even fake coordinates.
  • 6. add a simple puzzle or riddle to cache listing page.
  • 7. if you do not already have one, open a free email acocunt dedicated only to geocache maintenance at Gmail or a similar free email service. List this account as your PM contact email address at gc.com
  • 8. add a PROMINENT note to cache listing page stating that the disclosed wayoint coordinates are not for final hide side but rather for recommended parking, etc. Disclose in this prominent note that the ONLY way for a potential cache seeker to procure actual hide spot coordinates is to first solve the riddle, and then to PM you via the gc.com site, sending you their answer, along with their stats. The note will advise them further that if they have solved the puzzle correctly, and if their gc.com account exhibits the requisite minimal number of cache finds (perhaps 60) and cache hides (perhaps 5) and if their prerequisite finds and hides appear to be legitimate (i.e., in terms of geospatial and temporal patterns and veracity of logs) then and only then will you send them the final waypoint coordinates for the cache. Some folks have also proposed furrther prerequisites, such as demanding attendance at two local events as a prerequisite, although this one is not a favorite of mine.
  • 9. List the new revised hide spot waypoint coordinates in the "waypoint" section of the cache listnig page, making them viewable only by cache owner and reviewers.
  • 10. explain, via private notes, to your local reviewer what you are doing and why.
  • 11. enable cache listing page. If you have moved the final hide spot of cache over 528 feet, this will likely require an approval by the reviewer.

Of course, even higher levels of security prequisites may be required if needed, but they are likely not required in this case. In some other outdoor activity organizations to which I belong (or have belonged), no one is ever allowed to gain access to site locations until and unless they are a fully-vetted member of the web-based organization which holds the lists, and, to become a full member, an applicant must not only pay a hefty yearly (or monthly) membership fee, but must fill out and submit an application, and must fully disclose their name, age, mailng address, phone number and all contact information, and, if their application is approved by the membership committee, then they must go thru a further peer-approval or recommendation process. I an not saying that such extensive measures are necessarily needed in the geocaching world, but they are routinely employed --- and have been employed for years -- in other related fields by similar organizations.

 

BTW, I have heard from several other cachers that some incidental or accidental side-effects of using these meaures listed above, and similar measures, include:

  • vast reduction in "accidental" trespassing by cache hunters on nearby private and posted property, and far fewer complaints from nearby property owners
  • vast reduction in incidental environmental damage (i.e., dismantling rock walls, pulling bushes apart) wrought by seekers
  • vast improvement in quality of trade items found in cache
  • vast improvement in cleanliness and condition of cache over time
  • and, of course, reduced cache maintenance...

And, of course, in lieu of these measures, or before they are implemented, a bit of field surveillance or use of a few well-hidden cameras at some cache sites might be of great benefit!

 

Well, in any case, whether you liked my above suggestions or not, I wish you the best with meeting these challenges! :)

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team
Link to comment
I am a big advocate of using all of the following techniques to foil cache maggots, and to at least force them to leave an audit trail if they must persist in pursuing their activities; these measures tend to prevent other problems as well:

 

* temporarily disable listing for cache in question.

* move cache to a new hiding spot, one near the old spot, but... SNIPr

 

I think the best way to handle cache thievery is to quietly replace or archive each cache, making no mention of the theft on the page. Also do not discuss the situation in the forums here or in the local forums. The vast majority of these thieves are doing this for attention and if their actions go unnoticed they will lose interest soon.

 

There is a small, dedicated bunch of thieves out there. I think most of them fall into the enviro-nazi category and they think they are on a mission from God to save the earth from the scourge of geocaching. They are much harder to discourage and I think Vinny's method, or some variation of it, might be an option in these cases.

Link to comment

I like Vinny and Sue Team's outline for making caches in a particular area more secure. Some areas may have to resort to these methods.

I have a different solution where the cache thief ends up losing an ear but I probably can't post all the details in this forum...

Link to comment

I like Vinny and Sue Team's outline for making caches in a particular area more secure. Some areas may have to resort to these methods.

I have a different solution where the cache thief ends up losing an ear but I probably can't post all the details in this forum...

 

Reminds me of another recent thread on these forums about chronic cache maggotry, this time regarding stolen caches in Illinois. I had been a contributor to the thread -- offering advice (which the cache owner absolutely hated, by the way) on how to drastically reduce the odds of maggotry -- and in turn, a cacher in another part of the country sent me some nice links to webpages on long-range sniper rifles and long range sniper techniques, useful for killing varmints in one shot at up to 900 yards to 1,000 yars distance! Hmmmm...! I chose, wisely I think, not to forward those links to the thread in question. . . it had already gotten contentious enough...! ;)

 

BTW, I grew up in the lower Hudson Valley, and spent much of my earlier years hiking the lower Catskills and Ramapo mountains, and later, the Adirondacks! Also climbed for years in the Shawangunks. . .

Link to comment

 

General rule: difficult caches are found much less often. Puzzle caches may be the thing, or long hikes? Evaluate was has been stolen.

 

I recently completed a SEVEN-part multi-cache on State Game Lands in NEPA where the final cache was in PUZZLE-format code (after finding part 6) and the final cache was cleverly hidden in a hollowed out log.

 

I was the last one to touch it...the next day the final disappeared...how persistant does a cache-raider have to be to complete that?

 

packim

Link to comment

General rule: difficult caches are found much less often. Puzzle caches may be the thing, or long hikes? Evaluate was has been stolen.

 

I recently completed a SEVEN-part multi-cache on State Game Lands in NEPA where the final cache was in PUZZLE-format code (after finding part 6) and the final cache was cleverly hidden in a hollowed out log.

 

I was the last one to touch it...the next day the final disappeared...how persistant does a cache-raider have to be to complete that?

 

packim

If this is an isolated circumstance rather than a regular occurrence in that area, it may well not have been a cache-raider, but rather perhaps a raccoon, an opossum, or even a muggle, even a muggle hiking in the forest who saw you from a distance and decided to check it out after you left...

Link to comment

**snip

[*] 8. ....... and if their gc.com account exhibits the requisite minimal number of cache finds (perhaps 60) and cache hides (perhaps 5) and if their prerequisite finds and hides appear to be legitimate (i.e., in terms of geospatial and temporal patterns and veracity of logs) then and only then will you send them the final waypoint coordinates for the cache. Some folks have also proposed furrther prerequisites, such as demanding attendance at two local events as a prerequisite, although this one is not a favorite of mine.

****snip

 

WOW I am glad you are not running any groups in my area......

as a total noob with only 3 finds, if this ( your whole post) was the prerequisite to getting into geocaching I would have walked away and never even started.. I think we need to NOT discourage new people coming into the sport, but I suppose with maggot problems like they have extreme measures may be needed..

 

slugger

Link to comment

**snip

[*] 8. ....... and if their gc.com account exhibits the requisite minimal number of cache finds (perhaps 60) and cache hides (perhaps 5) and if their prerequisite finds and hides appear to be legitimate (i.e., in terms of geospatial and temporal patterns and veracity of logs) then and only then will you send them the final waypoint coordinates for the cache. Some folks have also proposed furrther prerequisites, such as demanding attendance at two local events as a prerequisite, although this one is not a favorite of mine.

****snip

WOW I am glad you are not running any groups in my area......

as a total noob with only 3 finds, if this ( your whole post) was the prerequisite to getting into geocaching I would have walked away and never even started.. I think we need to NOT discourage new people coming into the sport, but I suppose with maggot problems like they have extreme measures may be needed..

 

slugger

Yes, as you guessed, no one has any agenda against newbies -- quite the opposite! However, in those few regios where there are chronic cache maggots, then drastic measures such as these may be needed for a while. Newbies such as yourself will still be able to build your find count, even if most local cache owners were to implement such rules, but you might have to travel further for a while to get your first 50 or 60 finds under your belt. If you think such measures are tough, try getting into some of the spelunking or cave diving societies! For most of them, you not only have to pay a hefty fee, but you also need to go thru a very extensive screening and application process in order to even be allowed to see listings of locations.

Link to comment

Because Im nosey, I looked at your caches. I saw that many of them were members only. Were they members only before the cache maggot stole your caches? If so, I think you should be able to see who looked at your cache pages. Maybe that would help you identify the maggot.

 

(Really like that term cache maggot. Much more appropriate than cache thief.)

 

I made them members only because all the local Geocachers know of the problem in this 50 mile radius.By checking the audit logs,I thought that might narrow it down,but like has been mentioned,they dont even have to look at the page,just download it to GSAK or Easy GPS.Thanks to all for the ideas that have been mentioned,I have patience and will find this person eventually,I don't give up easily and have some pretty plentiful resources.If whos stealing is reading and getting your jollies,better hope your insurances are paid up,I assure you,you'll be needing some good coverage...

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...