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When designing a new category, an important aspect is the decision on what variables to establish for it.

 

The types of variables available are:

 

Radio Button List

Checkbox

Dropdown List

Short Textbox

Multi-line Textbox

Encrypted Multi-line Textbox

Simple Date

Simple Time

Start Date/Finish Date (Season)

Start Tme/Finish Time

Additional Longitude/Latitude Coordinate

Textbox Accepting Numeric-only Decimal Answer

Textbox Accepting Numeric-only, Non-Decimal Answer

Ratings (1-5)

Textbox Accepting Currency

Web Address or URL

Physical Address

ISBN Number

 

I have some opinions on using variables to start a discussion .....

 

It seems to me that when writing the Instructions for Waymarking and for Logging, it makes sense to use variables to get the information you want. For example, if you want the Waymarker to give an address, use the Physical Address variable type instead of having them write it in their description paragraph. If you want to suggest that coordinates of a parking area be supplied, there is a variable type for that and you can make it an optional variable.

 

Variables can be either Required or not. I notice that when a category is being proposed, the variables are listed but it doesn't identify which are required and which are optional. In getting your new category through the Peer Review it might be good to give 2 separate lists of variables - required and optional. There is also no provision to give your variable's options (such as the types available in a Radio Button variable). It may be useful to make that clear as well in your submission to Peer Review.

 

TPTB say that a search-by-variable feature is coming. We don't have direct experience with that yet, but imagine Waymarking having 200,000 waymarks instead of the current 10,000. Being able to search by variable might be quite useful for finding whether or not a waymark for something exists already in your area. So, it might be good to design in several variables for searching uses.

 

If you want a particular amount of information listed for a waymark, variables help to ensure that the requirements of the category will be met. It also makes it easier for the waymark creator to be able to write a more concise paragraph description without having to include all the required information in paragraph form.

 

In the Recovered US Benchmarks category, I made an open-ended Dropdown List variable called Benchmark Agency. As you might know, there are a great many different agencies that have established benchmarks. When I created the category, I seeded this dropdown variable with 5 or 6 agencies. It now has 66 types. The point here is that you don't actually need to know at the beginning how many varieties a particular variable will have. When someone submits a benchmark that has a new agency (I have a Short Textbox variable called Benchmark Agency (if other) where they input the Agency written on the disk they found), I add the new agency by editing the Benchmark Agency variable, selecting "Add New Option" and type in the new agency name, Accept the waymark, and then email the person who made the waymark, inviting them to edit their new waymark to select the agency from the list. This works quite well.

 

I think variables are an excellent feature of Waymarking. Some people dislike them, I realize, but I suggest anyway that when designing a new category, you consider which variables you would select if you did like them, even if you are going to require that input from the waymarker in paragraph form. It may help to organize your thoughts about the new category.

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Thanks for starting this thread and I hope it provokes some good discussion. I certainly like the suggestions - especially providing the option to add other when the specific variable isn't listed. The ones that annoy me are ones where none of the listed options apply and there's no place to explain why they don't apply to the waymark I've found.

 

I guess what is important up front is to think of variables that either:

 

1) Provide a spot to enter required information in order to log it as a waymark. Those shouldn't be optional and "other" should only be an option if you provide a place to put what the other is.

 

2) Would be a way of separating waymarks in that category meaningfully in the future (Benchmarks by Agency is a good example).

 

I do see categories with a whole laundry list of variables, many of which don't meet either of these criteria. Maybe people see other future uses of such data that I don't.

 

It would be good to pull all such info together and develop a "Guidelines For Listing Variables FAQ" - with input from the developers who have some vision on what tools might be available in the future that can sort/search variable field data.

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Something that I think people might not know but would appreciate is that for the dropdown list variable, the "order" number you put in can have gaps for E-Z additions. For example, in the Massachusetts Historic Markers category, the "Other (place below)" option should be at the bottom all the time, so it has a value of 999. And I keep some spaces in between otherwise. That way, if something needs to go between "Cambridge Historical Commission" and "Town of Natick", whoever's inserting it won't have to go change the numbers of everything after "Town of Natick".

 

Just something I thought some people might not have caught.

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Variables can be either Required or not. I notice that when a category is being proposed, the variables are listed but it doesn't identify which are required and which are optional. In getting your new category through the Peer Review it might be good to give 2 separate lists of variables - required and optional. There is also no provision to give your variable's options (such as the types available in a Radio Button variable). It may be useful to make that clear as well in your submission to Peer Review.

 

We've talked about allowing a more detailed view of variables in the Peer Review so you can see what each mean. I recall seeing "Fairy Hills" as a variable once and had absolutely no idea what that referred to. This detailed view would certainly show whether a variable was optional or not.

 

Something that I think people might not know but would appreciate is that for the dropdown list variable, the "order" number you put in can have gaps for E-Z additions. For example, in the Massachusetts Historic Markers category, the "Other (place below)" option should be at the bottom all the time, so it has a value of 999. And I keep some spaces in between otherwise. That way, if something needs to go between "Cambridge Historical Commission" and "Town of Natick", whoever's inserting it won't have to go change the numbers of everything after "Town of Natick".

 

Just something I thought some people might not have caught.

 

This would definitely be handy, but given that you're only likely to change your variables a few times before getting it just right, I doubt we could justify Sean spending so much time coding a feature that would offer only a small return. Maybe when everything is running perfectly in 6 months he could spare it. ;)

 

-Nate

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Something that I think people might not know but would appreciate is that for the dropdown list variable, the "order" number you put in can have gaps for E-Z additions. For example, in the Massachusetts Historic Markers category, the "Other (place below)" option should be at the bottom all the time, so it has a value of 999. And I keep some spaces in between otherwise. That way, if something needs to go between "Cambridge Historical Commission" and "Town of Natick", whoever's inserting it won't have to go change the numbers of everything after "Town of Natick".

This would definitely be handy, but given that you're only likely to change your variables a few times before getting it just right, I doubt we could justify Sean spending so much time coding a feature that would offer only a small return. Maybe when everything is running perfectly in 6 months he could spare it. ;)

Actually, that's currently the case (I guess I wasn't clear). I currently do this with Massachusetts Historic Markers.

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I used Shorelander's idea last night to sort the 60 or so different benchmark agencies in the Recovered US Benchmarks category. The agency list grows as new types are added to the category with waymarks.

 

Before last night, a person looking for a match of the agency with what was written on the disk had to search through the whole list.

 

I used a spreadsheet and a list of state names to generate 20 numbers for each state. Then using this number series, I spaced out the agencies we had by changing the order number. For instance, Maryland might've had a number in the spreadsheet like 640 so I took the first (sorted) Maryland agency we had and made it number 642 in the variable list (instead of 37 or whatever).

 

Now at least they are spread out with some room in between for adding new ones, and mainly someone making a new waymark can search through the list much more easily since their state will only have 3 or 4 entries or less.

 

Now to sort the little nationwide part of the list.....

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Is there a help section describing how each variable type works? I can't find anything. I want to create a variable with 8 selections but the user can pick as many of them as they want. Do any of the existing variable types allow this?

 

There is no multi-select option at this time. You can accomplish what you want now by using checkboxes though it isn't the optimal solution.

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Is there a help section describing how each variable type works? I can't find anything. I want to create a variable with 8 selections but the user can pick as many of them as they want. Do any of the existing variable types allow this?

 

There is no multi-select option at this time. You can accomplish what you want now by using checkboxes though it isn't the optimal solution.

 

Thanks, I'll set it up as 8 check boxes. It would be nice if it could be done by selecting multiple radio buttons though.

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Is there a help section describing how each variable type works? I can't find anything. I want to create a variable with 8 selections but the user can pick as many of them as they want. Do any of the existing variable types allow this?

 

There is no multi-select option at this time. You can accomplish what you want now by using checkboxes though it isn't the optimal solution.

 

Thanks, I'll set it up as 8 check boxes. It would be nice if it could be done by selecting multiple radio buttons though.

 

Oh, oh! I thought this was the way radio buttons worked -- one could select as many as applied! It this NOT the case, then we definitely NEED this ability, and I've got to totally rework my variables. Yikes!

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When designing a new category, an important aspect is the decision on what variables to establish for it.

 

It seems to me that when writing the Instructions for Waymarking and for Logging, it makes sense to use variables to get the information you want.

 

Variables can be either Required or not. I notice that when a category is being proposed, the variables are listed but it doesn't identify which are required and which are optional.

 

If you want a particular amount of information listed for a waymark, variables help to ensure that the requirements of the category will be met. It also makes it easier for the waymark creator to be able to write a more concise paragraph description without having to include all the required information in paragraph form.

 

I think variables are an excellent feature of Waymarking.

 

I'm right on track with you!

 

I've had the comment in per review that my category had too many variables, but actually only a few of them were required. I'v noted this on subsequent submissions. It is a good way of gathering the information and is convenient for both waymark creator and viewer.

 

I would also hope that it might be used as a basis for sub-dividing large categories down the road.

 

A couple of questions:

 

Is having Coutry or State as a variable redundant as it is included in the creation process?

 

Could we have a date format that would accept just the year? Many times this is the only date available or needed and to be forced into a the mm/dd/yyyy format is cumbersome. I've opted to making it a short text box.

 

And, as noted elsewhere, we really do need a multiple choice variable option -- check all that apply.

 

Great discussion.

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Thanks, I'll set it up as 8 check boxes. It would be nice if it could be done by selecting multiple radio buttons though.

 

Oh, oh! I thought this was the way radio buttons worked -- one could select as many as applied! It this NOT the case, then we definitely NEED this ability, and I've got to totally rework my variables. Yikes!

 

By definition radio buttons are mutually exclusive. Only one in the group can be selected. Check boxes are the appropriate variable tyoe when more than one selection is allowed.

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Oh, oh! I thought this was the way radio buttons worked -- one could select as many as applied! It this NOT the case, then we definitely NEED this ability, and I've got to totally rework my variables. Yikes!

 

By definition radio buttons are mutually exclusive. Only one in the group can be selected. Check boxes are the appropriate variable tyoe when more than one selection is allowed.

Or a listbox.

Edited by Shorelander
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There have been a lot of categories designed so far. If a search-by-variable feature had been available in Waymarking early on, I think many of them would've been designed with more variables. In the future of Waymarking, a search by variable feature might be important for users, and at that point, some categories might look like they need a re-design to put more variable in them.

 

If a search by variable feature is planned for the future, it would be good to start it sooner than later so that the design of upcoming categories will be done in an environment where the feature exists.

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what are the numbers assigned to variables for? i think it might relate to the variable searches.....but in setting up several categories (historic markers) i used the SAME variables....they all have different #s. can the program not register that that variable is already in use and thus, give it the already assigned #. then when the variable search is instituted, i search for all historic markers earmarked as a 'building {aka 046}, the program then searches for all marks with an assigned '046' variable......

and i could do a general variable search (from the home page?) for buildings, and get many different results, outside of the historic marker realm.....

 

????????????????

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Is there a help section describing how each variable type works? I can't find anything. I want to create a variable with 8 selections but the user can pick as many of them as they want. Do any of the existing variable types allow this?

 

There is no multi-select option at this time. You can accomplish what you want now by using checkboxes though it isn't the optimal solution.

 

This is near the top of my desired features list!!

It would simplify the variables for several categories that I help with.

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OK, I'm looking at a category up for peer review. It's a very good category and happens to include some variables. As we all know, however, there is no provision yet for categories under review to show us which variables are required, which are not required, what kind of variables they are, and what their choices include. This is a bit of a problem, IMHO.

 

I just thought of a workaround solution:

(My apologies to the Capitols category for my ignorant assumptions below that I used for an illustrative example here.)

 

In the section called: Instructions for placing waymarks into this category:, at the bottom of it, put something like this:

--------------------------------

Synopsis of variables:

R Type: radio button: national, state/provincial

R Address text

N Dates of Construction text (include begin date, end date, and other significant dates in a list)

N Major Renovations text

N Hours text

N Web Site website variable

N Historical Monuments/Memorials text

(R=required, N=not required)

--------------------------------

 

Well, that didn't take very long to type.

 

Anyway, after the peer review process, while making any final changes resulting from the peer reveiw results and before the category is made active, delete the part between the --------- lines . The idea is that the stuff between the --------- is temporary, just for the peer review phase.

 

Why do this? Assuming that the peer review process assists you in designing your new category, showing the reviewers how the variables are designed should improve the process.

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OK, I'm looking at a category up for peer review. It's a very good category and happens to include some variables. As we all know, however, there is no provision yet for categories under review to show us which variables are required, which are not required, what kind of variables they are, and what their choices include. This is a bit of a problem, IMHO.

 

Yes, I quite agree. So, I listed the variables, indicating those that are optional, right in my main description. So, this shows up when peer reviewers read the description. The type of data field isn't indicated specifically, but is fairly intuitive from the description. Once the category is approved, I delete this from the description as the variable information is clearly seen.

 

A lot of variables can be a negative factor, so making it clear that some of them are optional helps give a better picture of what the waymark requirements are.

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BDT : Great suggestion!

 

I like the layout you proposed... clear and concise

 

And yes... I have on a few occations commented in Peer Review that there are too many variables. Making the Waymarking listing is a big effort... but the required variables can make it not much fun if they are things that you never thought of. And I suspect that some people will "lie" just to complete the requirements if they have to. :laughing:

 

Okay, maybe not... but it can happen.

 

:rolleyes: The Blue Quasar

Edited by The Blue Quasar
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