Volunteer Geocoin, Disrepect To Trade Or Sell?

1.5k · April 21, 2006

I am a little perplexed at the amount of people trying to get a volunteer geocoin, because when I was giving mine it stated things like

"This coin is given to geoholic28 with permission to put into collection book and let other cachers log when at events. By no means is it to be traded or sold as it is the sole property of (MY REVIEWER) a volunteer reviewer for Groundspeak."

I know they have been sold via the world wide web and people trade for them, I guess I am lost since I do not own the coin per say and I honestly do not wannt disrespect my reviewer by trading or selling it off.

Just don't understand...well here I go ::zips up my flamesuit::

2.6k · April 21, 2006

My friend, NatureFish, gave my reviewer coin to me. Some of the reviewer coins that were sold were sold by a person that was no longer a reviewer and the others were for charity. While I have the coin, it is similar to the Moun10bike coin and I don't believe it belongs to me. It would be very disrespectful for me to sell it.

April 21, 2006

I don't have one in my collection, but that is what I understand the "rules" for this coin were intended to be.

I think it is a great way to say thank you to those that help keep this alive. And hey it's a job that you get paid in coins :rolleyes:

1.5k · April 21, 2006

Seems to me that the "by no means is it to be sold or traded" is pretty clear cut. Sadly, some people just don't care, because I don't think anyone can "misunderstand" how these coins are supposed to be treated. The real bummer is that when people do stuff like sell these, then it's not exactly encouragement for future ones to be made. Maybe if they actually did something good for the hobby they'd receive a volunteer coin the good old fashion way----BY EARNING IT!

1.5k · April 21, 2006

Well an interesting point was made known to me just now by the first post, and it was that the coins were "sent out" via many different outlets, so if someone bought one and owned it then I can understand that position.

Mine like others was a gift and one I am thankful for, even if it does get me some "hey can you help me with this cache permission page" every one and awhile at events. :rolleyes:

April 21, 2006

Well an interesting point was made known to me just now by the first post, and it was that the coins were "sent out" via many different outlets, so if someone bought one and owned it then I can understand that position.

Mine like others was a gift and one I am thankful for, even if it does get me some "hey can you help me with this cache permission page" every one and awhile at events.

Why? :rolleyes:

April 21, 2006

When I have given out or traded volunteer coins I have asked for a no sale assurance. In some cases, but not all, I have also added that to the coin page. I suppose certainly a coin I sent out could get further traded or moved and some future person might stick it up for sale, and I likely could do little about that. But if I hadn't adopted it out (something I am going to stop doing), I could at least have it locked so the buyer could not get the icon and tracking. I hope to not see that though. I hope that the caching community will see that these are coins that have personal value and treasure them for that over monetary value. I can see further trades because perhaps a person might get one and be able to get more personal satisfaction by trading it for other coins. Plus trading is part of the fun of collecting. But a flat out sale is just unpleasent to me unless it were for 100% going to charity. Then I might not mind since that is still in a community spirit and not a personal gain spirit.

1.9k · April 21, 2006

I personally think it's a little overnoard and kind of control freakish to have to post things like that on the coin page. I have been given one and have no intentions to trade, give, or sell it at any point. I am rather honored to have received it and wouldn't show this person any disrespect by doing any of that so I doubt he would go to those lengths with this one. In fcat I have decided that for this coin in my collection, the only people I am going to have log it, are people who give something back to the geo community, other than just caches, Whether it's hosting an event or a CITO, or playing tour guide for out of towners. But that's me on this one. I just think some coins should have more meaning than others.

April 21, 2006

I consider it a honor to have received the Volunteer and the Lackey Geocoins that I have and will never part with them. They were giving to us because someone out there thinks we have contributed to making the game better which we try to do on a daily basis!

Edited April 21, 2006 by BackBrakeBilly

1.5k · April 21, 2006

I personally think it's a little overnoard and kind of control freakish to have to post things like that on the coin page.

Yeah your right, never mind me trying to understand why I have a coin that I highly respect and is not even owned by me and yet I see the same coin traded and sold online. I'll go back to my little one page of coins and let the big boy plays :rolleyes:

1.1k · April 21, 2006

I was given mine by my reviewer and it was a both a wonderful surprise and an honor to receive it. Before it left his hand, he specifically told me that he would activate it for me, the ownership remained his, but I could log it as any other coin I used. It still belongs to him. I can not trade or sell it, and I can't imagine doing so. That all seems pretty clear cut to me and I certainly have no problem with any of that.

I received one other coin in trade directly from its owner that also came with the request that I not trade or sell it. For personal reasons, next to my OIFGA it is my favorite - it's my Cav Scout Raven coin. Like the Vounteer coin, I can't imagine considering trading or selling it.

However, just because I can't imagine doing so, doesn't mean others can't and won't. I may not agree with those actions, and I won't help their cause by purchasing or trading for a coin with those type of terms linked to them. The terms on the Volunter coins are pretty clear, straight forward, and becoming more well known as the reviewers who choose to do so share them with others. Terms linked to personal coins can be a bit more difficult to know about.

These are the type of coins that mean more to me than state or location-specific type creations. Even if I decide to sell off my entire collection, these coins will not be part of that process.

<edit: spelling>

Edited April 21, 2006 by ScoutingWV

1.9k · April 21, 2006

I personally think it's a little overnoard and kind of control freakish to have to post things like that on the coin page.

Yeah your right, never mind me trying to understand why I have a coin that I highly respect and is not even owned by me and yet I see the same coin traded and sold online. I'll go back to my little one page of coins and let the big boy plays

I think you are missing what I am saying. I too have a high amount of respect for this coin that is not owned by me. i too can't understand why the coin is being traded or sold. Why does someone want a coin that has no emotion or sentimental value that was clearly made only for those reasons. I think we both agree on this entirely. My statement was I do not understand why someone posts all these rules on the coins page. To me it takes away from the gift. I don't need the rules posted on the coin page. It's clutter to me. The person who gives the coin and maintains ownership can lock the coin if it is sold. That is what I was trying to say. List the coin in the thoughtful way in which it was presented and leave the rules mumbo jumbo out of it till something happens and needs to be brought up.

April 21, 2006

I personally think it's a little overnoard and kind of control freakish to have to post things like that on the coin page. I have been given one and have no intentions to trade, give, or sell it at any point.

I agree. Unfortunately past experiences have shown a reason for concern and so many volunteers have been left feeling the need to do so. I didn't at first, and also adopted some coins over, but later concerns made me want to be careful. I put up some coins in contests for CITO events and hated that I felt the need to add stuff about not for sale to the pages.

In the end though, I trust the community as a whole. Sure some coins show up for sale that shouldn't be, but for the most part people do see them as a personal, rather than monetary value item. I really appreciate that! I know that I was really excited when I got my volunteer coins and have enjoyed giving them out. I gave some to friends and good cachers, some I traded (a bit selfish, but it allowed me to get some coins I value just as much for my collection) and some I am reserving for CITO awards or special "good cacher deeds" surprises. I like the last ones the best! :rolleyes:

1.4k · April 21, 2006

I personally think it's a little overnoard and kind of control freakish to have to post things like that on the coin page. I have been given one and have no intentions to trade, give, or sell it at any point. I am rather honored to have received it and wouldn't show this person any disrespect by doing any of that so I doubt he would go to those lengths with this one. In fcat I have decided that for this coin in my collection, the only people I am going to have log it, are people who give something back to the geo community, other than just caches, Whether it's hosting an event or a CITO, or playing tour guide for out of towners. But that's me on this one. I just think some coins should have more meaning than others.

I kinda agree about the "overboard"ishness, but for Moun10Bike Coins at least, it was the Clue Bat solution for the type of people who prefer $ over respect. :rolleyes:

I try not to knock on demand (people who buy or initiate the trade), since they are in a more vulnerable position. I keep wishing we can foot the bill to the speculators for all the unnecessary changes to the database they caused - good way to get some $ for improving site performance. :unsure:

2.2k · April 21, 2006

...till something happens and needs to be brought up.

It has, that's why it's being brought up.

I would hope that the coins I've put out stay where they are. When I put a few more out, I sincerely hope that they are welcomed and kept with the intent of the gift - but sadly some won't.

For those that have them - I hope you cherish them for what they are.

1.9k · April 21, 2006

...till something happens and needs to be brought up.

It has, that's why it's being brought up.

I think the whole sentence gives a much clearer message as to what I was trying to say than just the part you quoted. I said

List the coin in the thoughtful way in which it was presented and leave the rules mumbo jumbo out of it till something happens and needs to be brought up.

This was meant on an individual basis. If less than 2% of the coins are having this negative thnigs done to them, then why come across hard on all the coins? It seems very tacky to me to gove someone a coin for doing such a great service, then basically put a big label all over the page that "I own this coin and don't trust this person not do to with it whatever they want". If it is an award is a way, then thank the person and leave it be. IF that person puts it up for sale THEN that issue is brought up.

3.8k · April 21, 2006

It was an honour to be given my coin, even though the ownership was transferred to me I would never trade it or sell it.

It was a gift and one I was happy to receive :rolleyes:

1.5k · April 21, 2006

All I wanted to know is this:

If the coins are a gift from Groundspeak to people, then why do so many people trade them or sell them, short and simple question, and so far a lot of great responses.

1.8k · April 21, 2006

I would love to have someone GIVE me a coin under any circumstances, but the coins we are discussing would be something special. Don't people value stuff?

Not that it has any monetary value, but I was given a funeral card of a NYFD officer who died in the WTC. It has not left my wallet in nearly 5 yrs, and I have no plans to even put it away.

April 21, 2006

I think the whole sentence gives a much clearer message as to what I was trying to say than just the part you quoted. I said

List the coin in the thoughtful way in which it was presented and leave the rules mumbo jumbo out of it till something happens and needs to be brought up.
This was meant on an individual basis. If less than 2% of the coins are having this negative thnigs done to them, then why come across hard on all the coins? It seems very tacky to me to gove someone a coin for doing such a great service, then basically put a big label all over the page that "I own this coin and don't trust this person not do to with it whatever they want". If it is an award is a way, then thank the person and leave it be. IF that person puts it up for sale THEN that issue is brought up.

I have to agree, I would find it an insult to be given a gift and be told how to behave on top of that just because some minority badly took advantage of a gift. That's just as bad as being robbed by a person of a certain race and then saying the entire race are theives.

It's either a gift or it isn't, you can't have it both ways, you give it away then it's not yours anymore and you should forget about it, otherwise, then don't give it as a gift and just activate it like a normal coin and pass it along with instructions that it not be sold but don't call it a gift anymore it's just a TB like any other and should be treated as such.

1k · April 21, 2006

I received one of the volunteer coins for one of our cache reviewers, I have no intention of selling it or trading it. It has more meaning and personal value than any of the other coins I have. It is the first (and only) coin that has just been given to me.

I am using it as our personal mileage coin for this year. (though we may stop doing that due to the hassles involved)

I also let it be logged by the hosts of events that we attend.

2.2k · April 21, 2006

List the coin in the thoughtful way in which it was presented and leave the rules mumbo jumbo out of it till something happens and needs to be brought up.

This is the stance I took with the ones I handed out. There were several volunteers who felt the need to put "rules" on the page, which is their call entirely, but I did not. The people receiving the coins are people I know would not sell or trade them. That was just a verbal request on my part, but as gifts from Groundspeak to us, there are no set rules on the coins. We are to do with them as we wish, as are those that we may give them to.

Just another perspective.

Quiggle

1.3k · April 21, 2006

I have a reviewer coin that was awarded to me by my peers when our local reviewer decided to honor those who contributed to geocaching in our area. Only recently was the coin adopted over to me. I would never, ever consider selling, trading or otherwise parting with this coin. It would be like someone giving away an Oscar or an Emmy, well maybe not that extreme, but I value what people give me especially considering why I was awarded the coin.

April 21, 2006

Were the Volunteer coins given to volunteers by Groundspeak with stipulations or were they given as gifts for the volunteers to do with as they please? If it were the former then Groundspeak could lock those coins down or prevent anyone except volunteers from activating them and they haven't. If it were the latter, then the volunteer could do with them what they wanted. This is why some were sold, traded, released, bartered and gifted by volunteers. It seems that what should be good for the goose, should be good for the gander.

Is not the value is something determined by the person that wants it?

April 21, 2006

It's either a gift or it isn't, you can't have it both ways, you give it away then it's not yours anymore and you should forget about it, otherwise, then don't give it as a gift and just activate it like a normal coin and pass it along with instructions that it not be sold but don't call it a gift anymore it's just a TB like any other and should be treated as such.

I take it you are not familiar with the idea of family heirlooms?

"Dear, this is your Great-Grandma Ida's silver. You're the eldest daughter so it goes to you on your wedding day, and you'll pass it on to your daughter when she gets married. We wish you and Joe all the happiness in the world!"

So when the marriage fails and Clarissa sells the silverware on eBay, do you think the rest of the family might be just a little bit miffed? These coins are sort of the geocaching version of family heirlooms. They're yours, and yet they're not. Some of the volunteers have already commented that they are retaining ownership, so you aren't being gifted the coin, you're being gifted the possession of it. The owner remains the person who's name shows up as such on that geocoin's page and they can place rules on possession if they wish. And as for the ones that have been transfered to someone else's account, well, the fam..., uh, the community is feeling a bit upset that Clarissa isn't respecting the traditions regardless of what the law says.

It's good you're upfront about your feelings, so there's no surprises down the line for anyone who might consider gifting you with the possession of a geocoin. And for those who think my analogy sucks because it's not necessary to tell the blushing bride to not to sell off the family's antiques she got at the wedding, let's just say you've never met my family...

April 21, 2006

I take it you are not familiar with the idea of family heirlooms?

I am very familiar, I have my great grandfather's pocket watch that still works, it is valued at over 3 grand. I would never sell it for any reason, BUT, when it was handed to me it did not come with a contract and neither where any rules written or mentioned, it is simply assumed that you will keep it for what it is, and if you don't, well it is YOUR lost, nobody elses.

24.7k · April 21, 2006

People should not license their coins. If they want them to travel they should not 'give them away' and instead keep them like they continue to own a travel bug. If they want them to be swag, they should become the sole property of the finder. Strings can't be enforced and should not be created. If you have coin issues then when you give your coin away only give it to someone who thinks like you do and then there is no need for strings, contracts, provisons, and coin pre-nups.

As far as family heirlooms, it would be nice if the person who is entrusted with the family legacy had the brains and wisdom to follow the family tradition, but once they get the heirloom it's theirs to do with as they please. That's why family black sheep are not given heilooms unless there is no other choice. If someone wants to give me a heirloom and a contract I'd tell them no thanks. You don't know what's going to happen. I may need to hock my dads wedding band to bribe the police to cross the border when the USA becomes a police state. Short of that odds are the ring is safe to be passed on if it was entrusted with me.

Volunteer coins haven't had long enough to become heirlooms.

24.7k · April 21, 2006

When I have given out or traded volunteer coins I have asked for a no sale assurance. ...

If you gave me a volunteer coin, I would keep it along with a very few others that have a meaning beyond the metal. However if you gave it to me with strings I would not accept it. Virtually all the personal value is in the reason for the gift. As it happens I did give you something with no strings because of all the people I know, I knew you could appreciate it for what it was. I doubt you would flip it on eBay but that is your choice. That you accepted it and kept it (I think...) adds more value to the gift than had I kept it on my own mantle.

PS I don't think you would or even should, give me a volunteer coin. It doesn't 'fit' in the bigger picture. That's hard to explain but hopefully you get the meaning.

2.6k · April 21, 2006

"This coin is given to geoholic28 with permission to put into collection book and let other cachers log when at events. By no means is it to be traded or sold as it is the sole property of (MY REVIEWER) a volunteer reviewer for Groundspeak."

The one I was honored with said the same and I have no problem in living with this. Unlike the family treasure chest with all the mothballs... it's really no burden and takes up almost no room. The great thing is if it ever becomes a problem, I can turn it to a more honarable person. [That list should be long!]

4.2k · April 21, 2006

It's pretty simple really. Afew always ruin it for the masses. I'll never sell, trade or giveaway my Volunteer coin as it was given to me as a gift and I've accepted it as such.

These coins (like a few others) actually have some meaning behind them and I would hope everybody would see them as such. I was lucky enough to pick up 2 of these from a volunteer who left them for me when I visited HQ a few months ago. I gave them to locals who I thought would appreciate them as well and I have no doubt that they do and would never trade or sell them either. I didn't hear any complaints about any of the verbiage that may/may not be on the coin page.

If you think it's not a problem, look at the recent events with Moun10Bike coins on eBay.

Bottom line for me: These are special coins and I don't have a problem with the Volunteers retaining ownership of them and asking (or writing on the coin page) for certain stipulations.

I for one and happy to have one and won't be looking the gift frog in the mouth. <_<

3.5k · April 21, 2006

I was given a volunteer coin by a nice fella from Tennessee and I would never sell or trade it.

April 21, 2006

Basically when I have given coins to people I know, I have not felt the need to put anything on the page and haven't. In a few cases, I said "don't ebay it" jokingly because I knew they wouldn't. In cases where I traded with people I didn't know well, I specifically asked for a no ebay assurance, but didn't put anything on the page. I basically was not willing to trade with a person if they wouldn't do that. Had they said they couldn't promise not to ebay it, then I wouldn't have traded with them. When I am giving coins to be given as a random draw at an event, I am putting some language on the coin page since I don't know who will get the coin. I didn't love that, but the actions of a few made me want to do something to serve as a reminder.

Edited April 21, 2006 by Electric Mouse

April 21, 2006

It could be that they're putting the "No eBay" clause right on the coin page to establish ownership and the contract involved. eBay won't just go ahead and cancel or close an auction based on Joe Reviewer's say-so; he has to back up his complaint to them with proof. Telling them that YES, he did in fact give the coin to the person selling it, and has no proof, whether a piece of paper or an email saying "yep, you retain ownership and I agree I won't sell it" just won't go very far. It's all hearsay at that point.

Putting something on the page may be extreme, but, as kealia said, look at the Moun10Bike coin eBay problems.

April 21, 2006

In my opinion... if you have been blessed enough to be given one of these coins... you should honor this agreement... if you no longer want the coin... contact the "owner" and arrange to have it returned or traded/gifted to the person of their choice.

If you want to trade/buy/sell one of these, then you should be lucky enough to become a volunteer/reviewer and receive one yourself... then it's your right to do with it what you want.

April 22, 2006

The coins I handed out were to friends that have helped me in my position or to cachers that I thought were outstanding in their support of my state's caching. I adopted a couple out and gave some others away in my name. If those cachers want to adopt them, I would be glad to do it. I hated to see them show up on EBAY, but that was something we had no control over. None of the ones I gave out in my name have left that cacher's hands, but that ultimately is up to them.

They were a gift of thanks to me and that is the spirit I passed them along in. I would hope that they never show up on EBAY or some cacher's trading list. The Groundspeak team did not restrict what we were allowed to do with them, we were told to do as we pleased. I was really impressed with the coins and they were much more than I expected. Glen

Volunteer Geocoin, Disrepect To Trade Or Sell?

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