Of Geocoins, Travel Bugs, And Ftfs

[+Razak]

This is kind of been brought up in another category... but these three things I sorely miss... especially after finding my first geocoins over the weekends (i'm a new cacher, sue me)... It isn't necessarily the items themselves that I miss, but more the goal that I miss and the community they created.... Everyone is proud of their first to finds and geocoins... it gives them a little recognition... travel bugs are fun to see where your stuff goes and see who is finding them and all that... these things I do think bring the community together and I like that aspect of geocaching...

 

Obviously these are difficult to do without a physical bank to store stuff in for people find but for some reason I still want to find a way to add some of the accomplishment you felt or the closeness to the community that you got from those things... but how?

 

accomplishments would be the easiest...

 

First to Waymark (in a category)

First to Visit (a waymark)

Waymarks made (something we have, just not in boards)

Waymarks Visited (ditto)...

 

The made & Visited really equal the # of caches you place and find though and so the numbers in and of themselves are the prize. You could use FtV and FtW as recognition for yourself in some ways but given the sheer number of logless waymarks this one currently feels shallow. And another part of this thrill was always the prize cache placers often left for FTF people which is not possible here.

 

I came up with an idea of movable waymarks in an effort to find a good travel bug replacement, though I'm not sure if it's possible. If you have a suggestion to make it work... post here because I'm all ears to figure out how!

 

So how do we reward people for doing things? Are rewards even needed/necessary? (probably not, but I do think they bring community together one person at a time).

 

One possible idea? I like the thought of somehow passing stuff on safely to the FTF or FTV person.. perhaps making a geocoin and having it on some sort of site that has em and then it is shipped from that site... this would be safe for the FTFer or FTVer but would be a headache and a half to actually accomplish as a company!!! It would likely not be possible due to storage issues, but it would be nice to have some sort of safe transfer without needing someone to IM you their real life address to get some goods for their efforts!

 

I'd like to see someone come up with some good community building ideas to replace these old geocache standards. They don't have to be direct translations, this is a new realm... we just need some new methods!

[+Dew Crew]

And another part of this thrill was always the prize cache placers often left for FTF people which is not possible here.

 

How would you leave something at a virtual/locationless cache?

[+The Blue Quasar]

How about a "Waymarker"? It could be a Virtual Stamp that each Waymark player has one of. Or maybe just a Category Manager... to be determined.

 

How it would work is, and I guess I'll use myself as an example... in my Virtual Inventory I would have "The Blue Quasar's Waymarker" as an item at the start.

 

There are several variations on this idea... but here goes

 

1.. When I log a Visit, I have the option to MARK the location with my Waymarker and leave it behind. Subsequent Visitors would have the option to pick it up into their inventory as I would too if I went to one with a Waymarker in it. This would work best if it was restricted to Category Managers, so people could try to collect them if they wanted to (like Geocoins). As in, they get the game started, but they would pass on to any Waymark player after release.

 

2... The Waymarker is actually Invisible to everyone except the original owner and the person that has in it their inventory. How this one would work is that you virtually carry it around, then 'sneak it' into a Visit... it lies in wait for the next Visitor and once they log it, they are Waymarked and they carry it around and eventually they 'sneak it' into a Visit.. and so on. If the Waymarker lies dormant for a pre-determined time, the owner can recall the Waymark to their inventory or possibly send it back to the last person to touch it.

 

3... The Waymarker is still invisible, and every Category Manager has one based upon their Category name. This option would have a 'forced trade'.. each CM could then toss their Waymarker into the Waymark of another Category Manager (e.g. If I have three Categories, I could stick one into a WM in Jeremy's Berry Picking, one into a WM in Carleenp's BrewPub, and the last into a WM of Leprechaun's Landlocked Lighthouses). The CM cannot stick a Waymarker into a WM in their own Category or a WM they own in another Category. The next person that Visits the WM has the Waymarker attached automatically to them, and then the next WM they visit it gets deposited... On for one stop, then off at the next.

 

Expand or alter if you have ideas.

 

The Blue Quasar

[+Razak]

How about a "Waymarker"? It could be a Virtual Stamp that each Waymark player has one of. Or maybe just a Category Manager... to be determined.

 

Interesting ideas. It would be free in your versions (maybe you could also limit it to premium members since Groundspeak likes to do that) that is good. The limited amount would make them more collectable. I'll add my forth offshoot to your idea maybe we could actually somehow get both...

 

4) You create or own icon or 'marker' and buy a certain number from Groundspeak. (I guess kind of like the geocoin icons/tracking numbers) It wouldn't have to be expensive this way, we could maybe buy 25 for $7.50 or something. Then we could leave them on any waymark we own or visit to a waymark and the next person to visit that waymark would earn the badge. It would also be cool if they somehow could program the trading aspect of geocoins and/or have someone who earned a badge to releave that badge in the future on another waymark. This would increase the collectability of a marker. Perhaps you could also do something like have outlines around the icons for different prices... no outline would be 25 for 7.50 but perhaps a black outline would be 25 for 8 and a gold outline would be 25 for 8.50 or something.. Then people could do what they do with geocoins and get limited numbers of the outlined versions and leave em for special ocassions... etc..

[+Jake39]

Oh no ...more clutter.

We have one 'Geocacher' in our area that "RUNS" (or races) to every cache if there is a 'Travel Bug' in it and removes it without even owning a single one just for the count. (has had 50+ at home at one time)

IMO - this is not the way to play fairly.

...So how do you control the movement of 'Icons' from one 'Waymark' to another without anyone piling them up in his/her account?

[+BruceS]

This is kind of been brought up in another category... but these three things I sorely miss... especially after finding my first geocoins over the weekends (i'm a new cacher, sue me)... It isn't necessarily the items themselves that I miss, but more the goal that I miss and the community they created.... Everyone is proud of their first to finds and geocoins... it gives them a little recognition... travel bugs are fun to see where your stuff goes and see who is finding them and all that... these things I do think bring the community together and I like that aspect of geocaching...

 

 

If these are the things that you like then go geocaching. I am here because there are no numbers. There are no travelers. If I wanted numbers I would be geocaching and run around a city finding micros. If I wanted to deal with travel bugs and geocoins I would go geocaching. I don't. Waymarking is different.... lets keep it that way.

Edited April 17, 2006 by BruceS

[+The Blue Quasar]

I was only providing options... I have no interest in Travel Bugs or GeoCoins or First To Finds either.

 

But some people do..

 

Guess it would have been smart for me to not suggest anything since I wouldn't play along with it at any rate.

 

I'll stick to finding Waymarkable items... that is more interesting to me.

 

The Blue Quasar

[+chstress53]

I very much like the idea, I am a numbers ho. IF something like this were establisdhed I would play.

[+Razak]

 

If these are the things that you like then go geocaching. I am here because there are no numbers. There are no travelers. If I wanted numbers I would be geocaching and run around a city finding micros. If I wanted to deal with travel bugs and geocoins I would go geocaching. I don't. Waymarking is different.... lets keep it that way.

 

To be completely honest I don't care about numbers per say.. the thing I like about these things aren't the numbers, it is 1) the sense of accomplishment you get from finding something first whcih is missing right now and 2) the sense of community that is missing due to loss of the community interacting (outside of the bickering we have here <g>) 3) The thing *I* really like is the collectableness of geocoins.. I never was able to afford collecting geocoins but I do like the concept and wish I could afford it lol

 

Now that being said... are there numbers involved? Yes, but to me that is a minor side effect, and yes some people would play for the numbers... some people already do... there are numbers in Waymarking, they just aren't on the forums yet. (considering the tech is there I think it is just a matter of time before we see numbers for Waymarking in the forums).

[+Ed Rad]

This is kind of been brought up in another category... but these three things I sorely miss... especially after finding my first geocoins over the weekends (i'm a new cacher, sue me)... It isn't necessarily the items themselves that I miss, but more the goal that I miss and the community they created.... Everyone is proud of their first to finds and geocoins... it gives them a little recognition... travel bugs are fun to see where your stuff goes and see who is finding them and all that... these things I do think bring the community together and I like that aspect of geocaching...

 

 

If these are the things that you like then go geocaching. I am here because there are no numbers. There are no travelers. If I wanted numbers I would be geocaching and run around a city finding micros. If I wanted to deal with travel bugs and geocoins I would go geocaching. I don't. Waymarking is different.... lets keep it that way.

 

Well said Bruce!

 

Waymarking is totally about the experience of visiting a location and learning something while you're there. No numbers.

 

I have been more excited about Waymarking these days than about geocaching. I really can't deal with finding another pill bottle under a bench in a park or worse.. a parking lot. I know.. I can't chose to ignore them but filtering through all the crap is really starting to become a hassle. So much so I no longer keep count of my finds when I do take the time to cache. GSAK filters out the one I have already done and I go about my business.. no numbers.

 

Leave the icon collecting to the caching side. Keep it simple and pure here.. please!

[+BruceS]

 

To be completely honest I don't care about numbers per say.. the thing I like about these things aren't the numbers, it is 1) the sense of accomplishment you get from finding something first whcih is missing right now and 2) the sense of community that is missing due to loss of the community interacting (outside of the bickering we have here <g>) 3) The thing *I* really like is the collectableness of geocoins.. I never was able to afford collecting geocoins but I do like the concept and wish I could afford it lol

 

Now that being said... are there numbers involved? Yes, but to me that is a minor side effect, and yes some people would play for the numbers... some people already do... there are numbers in Waymarking, they just aren't on the forums yet. (considering the tech is there I think it is just a matter of time before we see numbers for Waymarking in the forums).

 

1. Finding in Waymarking is still there. Pick a category that there are not many of in your area and reseach until you find where the object is and then find it. For me the category that works well is Revolutionary War Veteran Graves... there are not many in my area. I have found several and most have taken an average of 2 hours of research to find where they are buried and to find the cemetery. Another category that has been a challenge is the Illinois Historical Markers. Sounds like an easy category, until you look at the website from the State of Illinois and realize that once the marker is listed no updates are done. This includes when the names of highways change, when the marker is removed and when it is moved (in some cases even to a different county). I think I had more no finds on that category in a month than I ever had in a month of caching

 

2. Actually I feel there is more community in Waymarking. The community concept is different in Waymarking than it is in Geocaching. In Geocaching, the community is more local thus several communities on a geographic basis. In Waymarking the community is more global based on categories and groups rather than on locality.

 

3. I am not a collector so I really can't comment on collecting. I know there has been mention of a "bounty" system in regards to Waymarking and what little I have heard it sounded like an interesting concept and may fulfill this "need".

Edited April 17, 2006 by BruceS

[+Razak]

 

1. Finding in Waymarking is still there. Pick a category that there are not many of in your area and reseach until you find where the object is and then find it. For me the category that works well is Revolutionary War Veteran Graves... there are not many in my area. I have found several and most have taken an average of 2 hours of research to find where they are buried and to find the cemetery. Another category that has been a challenge is the Illinois Historical Markers. Sounds like an easy category, until you look at the website from the State of Illinois and realize that once the marker is listed no updates are done. This includes when the names of highways change, when the marker is removed and when it is moved (in some cases even to a different county). I think I had more no finds on that category in a month than I ever had in a month of caching

 

 

I do not disagree that there is something to finding waymarks... but thus far there is little reason to visit waymarks... and the sheer number of visits on waymarks backs me up on this... I wouldn't be surprised if there are more waymarks than there are visits to the waymarks... I just don't see a reason to visit as of yet.. yes there is some value in going out and just seeing these interesting places, but part of this actually seems taken away given that most categories require pictures of the site, plus in depth details of the site... which is cool... I can see all sorts of info about various places I wouldn't have a chance at seeing cause I don't have the money to travel cross-country/world to see them... however this does create a quandry in asking why do I go for most of them when i can see and get all the info there is online? Yes there is something to be said of visiting some of the places (scenic views, really grand statues) but a lot has little reason to see... maybe this is where personal preferance comes in <shrugs> I would just like to see more reason to visit than there is to create the waymark... I wanna see more people going than creating... I think there are likely more people out there who don't want to manage the waymark but wouldn't mind seeing other people's waymarks, maybe I'm wrong

 

For me personally, one of my newer goals is to create ideas that would be more fun to visit than maybe start... give people a reason to go... this topic is sort of going along those lines... finding ways to make people go... not supposed to be a thread about why you hate geocaching, I don't care honestly why you hate geocaching, go complain about it in geocaching threads...

 

This thread was supposed to be a way to create fun and collectables in this sport that might not be there yet. If you don't want these things, well as Blue Quasar and Jeremy tell me in the other thread in reference to McDonald's and Wal-mart... ignore it (maybe it'll go away!). I'm not making anyone play a numbers game, I don't care about numbers anymore than you. I'm just trying to figure out new and interesting ways to make the sport more fun and personable. Do you honestly think that Moun10bike was trying to think of new "numbers" when he came up wtih geocoins? No, he was just trying to think of a cool way to leave his mark, and to reward people for the work they do. If you are a negative reenforcer, that's your problem not mine. go see a shrink

Edited April 17, 2006 by Razak

[+BruceS]

If you are a negative reenforcer, that's your problem not mine. go see a shrink

 

This comment is uncalled for

[+The Blue Quasar]

As far a collectable goes... to me it has to be a non-physical item... totally opposite of Travel Bugs and Geocoins.

 

That is Geo-Ware.

 

Waymarking is about the non-physical side of GPS gaming... the visit, the "Saw it!"

 

While I'm not too thrilled with the name Waymarker.... as it is too close to Waymark and may cause confusion since I consider myself a Waymarker.... if there was to be a trackable/collectable... here is my suggestion for a name...

 

SHUTTER BUG - That captures the feeling of a Waymark goal (to take a picture) and it could be something that attaches itself to something else.

 

I've already proposed some variations earlier on mechanics... and like someone else brought up... there is talk of a BOUNTY thing so I am not about to devote effort to something that another group is working on and that I'm not all that jazzed about.

 

Take this wherever you like.... I'll throw ideas out there, and if they float then great, if they sink... that's okay too.

 

The Blue Quasar

[+Razak]

Shutter bug is nice name=P

 

I actually thought another idea today to make a more direct approach from something that is somewhat popular with geocachers... the personal travel bug... it actually would work fairly well in Waymarking I think... You get to see where exactly you have visited, how far you've gone, you can share your log with others, etc.. it is a totally virtual thing and thus I think fits well with the theme of Waymarking... would just need to integrate it better in the site (is a bit of a pain to deal with in geocaching to do this)... I also wouldn't mind a dog-tag like physical representation for people to grab at prospective Waymarking events that may occur (is there not a few event categories in Waymarking? these might be cool to try to spot other waymarkers and log the meet). Maybe Groundspeak could come up with some sort of pin that a person could wear on his lapel at such events or something. (a Marker)

[+Dew Crew]

<SNIP>I also wouldn't mind a dog-tag like physical representation for people to grab at prospective Waymarking events that may occur (is there not a few event categories in Waymarking? <SNIP>

 

Now that's an idea for a category. Maybe?

Edited April 17, 2006 by Dew Crew

[+Razak]

<SNIP>I also wouldn't mind a dog-tag like physical representation for people to grab at prospective Waymarking events that may occur (is there not a few event categories in Waymarking? <SNIP>

 

Now that's an idea for a category. Maybe?

 

I think someone suggested it before the peer review thing went in I guess I thought someone already made it... (thought it was something like Festivals or something, thought of submitting the local Kites on Ice, Concert on the Square etc too it but I guess I haven't seen it lately, someone who has group spots available should start such a thing... I'd join as an officer).

[+tozainamboku]

We keep hearing that Jeremy and bootron have ideas for a bounty for creating and then visiting waymarks. I don't see the need for something to stand in for travel bugs and coins when Waymarking, but perhaps this is how the bounty system will work. The category managers could award bounty points for creating waymarks in their category. Once a waymarker has earned bounty points, he can award them to vistors for his waymark, or he could leave them in other categories where he would like to see more waymarks or in waymarks that he would like to see get more visits. Each user's profile would show the number of bounty points they have earned. People would soon be competing for bounty points.

[+Razak]

We keep hearing that Jeremy and bootron have ideas for a bounty for creating and then visiting waymarks. I don't see the need for something to stand in for travel bugs and coins when Waymarking, but perhaps this is how the bounty system will work. The category managers could award bounty points for creating waymarks in their category. Once a waymarker has earned bounty points, he can award them to vistors for his waymark, or he could leave them in other categories where he would like to see more waymarks or in waymarks that he would like to see get more visits. Each user's profile would show the number of bounty points they have earned. People would soon be competing for bounty points.

 

Bounty points does indicate (to me at least) that it isn't just a number, that there is a prize attached to it.... like you get 1000 bounty points and you get a free Waymarking hat or something. It isn't a bad idea, in fact I had almost posted it in this thread as an idea before ya'll started talkin about it (I had never heard it) but honestly I thought it might it be difficult to make it worthwhile because while a free hat every now and then would be cool, it isn't collectable or tradeable (less they started coming out with series and taking old ones out of print every now and then).

 

I still don't mind the idea of some sort of collectable icon, or shutterbug, or integrated travel bug either.