This Cache Does Not Comply, So I Will Fix It.

[alistair_uk]

I was reading thought some local logs and someone mentioned that they had removed the bag from around the cache as it did not comply with the current guidelines.

 

Although I have grown to dislike bags around caches this annoyed me. It annoyed me because should it not be the decision of cache setter and not any cacher. Should this not be handled by a polite email or a log online.

 

Since then another cacher has done exactly the same thing and I am wondering if it is me who is wrong.

 

Any thoughts on acceptable etiquette here?

[+dino-irl]

I came across a cache in a bag on Friday. I didn't like it (especially as it was a tab-lock box and didn't need it) but I didn't remove it. I mentioned in the log that it wasn't doing a great job but that I didn't want to annoy the owner by removing it.

 

Whatever I feel about the bag it wasn't my place to take it away

Edited April 16, 2006 by dino-irl

[+Brenin Tegeingl]

I might be in the wrong, but personally I've always removed plastic bags warping up caches. Not because they are against the guidelines but because they present a risk to wildlife, and also because they trap water, and go manky, but also over time they end up full of holes and so even more useless.

 

Dave

[+stora]

I came across a cloth camo bag that was damp and full of woodlice.

 

I emailed the owner asking did he want it removed as it wasn't far from where I worked.

 

He replied that it was ok, so I removed it later that week.

 

A friendly email is always a good idea.

[Lactodorum]

Interesting question! Whenever I come across a cache for review that mentions that it's in a plastic bag I will ASK them to remove it and give the reasons why.

 

Actually there's nothing in the guidelines that we review against that forbids plastic bags so all we can do is to suggest that they are not a good idea. We leave it up to the cache owner to either remove them or to ask their first fonder to do so on their behalf. As it happens, when I've been caching and find a bag I tend to leave it unless the owner wants it removed. Mind you I usually make comment when logging it

[+Eckington]

Whenever a cache page mentions a plaggy bag I always, if appropriate, let the cache fly free but email the owner as follows:

 

"Hi Guy,

 

Eckington from UK admin here.

 

I have just let your latest cache fly free no probs. However, could you do me a favour? Although not aginst gc.com guidelines many UK landowners find plastic bags un eco freindly, and from a cacher's point of view a cache in a bag quickly becomes dank and nasty to handle. Could I ask you to remove the bag please.

 

Cheers and Cache Well,

 

Eckington"

[+Eckington]

I think me and 'im replied at the same time

Edited April 16, 2006 by Eckington

[+John Stead]

If the bag is a binliner and already torn and serving no useful purpose (if it ever did) I will remove it but if by so doing I leave the cache too visible I leave it and let the owner know.

[+HazelS]

I generally remove PLASTIC bags, However, if they make the cache more conspicuous, or mean that the box is unclosable or anything lik ethat, then I'll email the owner and tell them...

 

If I came across a Lock N Lock in a bag, I'd definitely remove it - there's just no need for it in most cases!

[+third-degree-witch]

I usually remove placcy bags from caches as 99.99% of the time they are ripped or chewed up by animals.Indeed ive found loads of caches by seeing the bags or hearing them flapping in the wind.

[+Moote]

I remove them, I did one on Friday that stood out like a sore thumb, hid it in the same location with some nice stones and leaf litter

 

Looks better that way was less obtrusive, and more friendly to the environment

[+kewfriend]

My first cache was in a plastic bag - and I received the sting in the tail comment from Lacto. Completely correct he was. When I visited the cache not only was the cache damper than had it been left out of the bag, it had gotten full of holes where animals had tried to gnaw their way in.

 

Since removing it the cache has been dry and animal free - so now we usually remove bags from caches: they serve no useful purpose.

[+Pengy&Tigger]

I remove them. Mostly because of the wildlife issue but also because of the slimy disgusting 'cache water' that collects in them

 

I often find that the bag makes the hide more obvious, as not everyone wraps and hides properly anyway. Its not uncommon to see bits of bag poking out of the hiding place.

 

Often it's not even the cache placer that wraps it in a bag in the first place, but well meaning finders who don't realise the consequences.

 

T

[+Malpas Wanderer]

Visited a few caches which were in bags today.

 

The last one I done was under a bridge so was quite muddy.

 

Not sure which I prefer a muddy bag or a muddy cache box which I need to get closer to.

 

Then again I have a dislike of caches under bridges.

[+rutson]

I always remove them, they just collect smelly water and make the cache more prone to dampness.

 

Oh and the eco-friendly, wild-lifey stuff as well

[Dave from Glanton]

From a more general point of view than just plastic bag removal...

 

I think that if some immediate remedial work is needed for the general wellbeing of a cache - such as moving it if its hiding place has obviously been badly compromised, or replacing a badly damaged cantainer - then that's fine.

 

Anything else should be the responsibility of the owner as regular maintenance - as is required under the guidelines. In that case a polite email to the cache owner should be in order.

[+Kitty Hawk]

As an example, I think the New Forest permissions dictate no plastic bags, so these I would remove with no hesitation.

 

Others I would consider the need for the bag, I've seen caches that need them for camoflage, though that isn't to say it's the best idea, just that removal makes them too obvious. I usually make a suggestion that they need changing in the log.

 

If there is no real need (waterproofing isn't a real need) for the reasons mentioned by others, I bin them.

[nobby.nobbs]

like kitty said in the forest it's banned.

if i came accross a cache that was in a bag i'd remove it and if a cache was seriously against the guidleines then if i could i would do what i could to fix the problem. then email to explain.

 

don't see it as being cache police just doing a favour for a fellow cacher. hopefully it's seen that way and not as interferring.

[+MarcoXono]

Most bin-bags I've found have been tatty/wet/smelly/full of creepy-crawlies. If I find one, I will remove it, unless it's also the cache's only camoflauge.

 

I think "guidelines" are irrelevant here. Remove bin-bags because they're NASTY, not because they're banned.

 

In the same way, I see nothing in any guidelines about caches full of water, but I'd have no hesitation in emptying it from a cache.

[+Woodbury Walker]

I am not so concerned about bags but what does upset me is cachers who fail to rehide caches properly. Many time when I approach a location I can see the cache, it hasn’t, be put back in its proper hidey-hole? It only takes a few minutes? No wonder they get muggled?

[+Cave Troll and Eeyore]

For me it all depends on the cache container and location.

If the container is a good water tight one i will remove the bag.

If it isn't water tight but hidden where water cannot possibly get in i will still remove the bag.

If the container is not water tight and in a location where wildlife abounds i would email the owner and politely suggest they change the container and remove the bag themselves explaining the dangers of bags to wildlife and the possibility of the bag getting waterlogged and full of slimey snails etc.

[+*mouse*]

Nothing worse than a horrid smelly soggy ripped bag around a cache and there is no reason for them If you want to camoflage your cache better change it's colour or hide it in a different place. I've seem some fantastic caches hidden in old logs, fake rocks and even one disguised as a frog! If you make the effort you can hide them really really well and it all adds to the fun of the hunt!

 

That said I would never tamper with a cache unless it presented some kind of danger. A polite email to the setter should be enough...

[+The Wombles]

All the major landowner permissions which I negotiate for GAGB require no plastic bags.

 

If I come across one elsewhere then I'll remove it providing it's not essential for camoflague.

[+CrazyL200]

I think plastic bags are the most hated thing about cache finds.

 

I've just done one this morning that was in a bin bag that was wet and smelly inside and had obviously been torn by either a lot of cacher traffic or by an animal of some sort. But .... if I had removed the bag, the bright white box would have been very difficult to hide well in it's current location. So I left a note to that effect on the log page and hopefully the owner will do the decent thing.

 

If I'd had a camo bag or more appropriate cover I would have changed it.

 

Black material is cheap and easy to get hold of, or for an even better hide, camo material. Neither of which would cause a problem to a foraging animal.

[+jerryo]

I removed one recently at the owner’s request and have removed others from caches by the same owner. It was only yesterday that I removed a nasty bag from someone else’s cache. I’ve definitely found that the cache is more likely to be wet if there is a bag used. Unless, of course, the original Tupperware box is an el-cheepo one from Aldi.

 

Wouldn’t it be better is this policy/guideline was better promoted? Every time you edit a cache listing you tick two boxes; why not make it 3, with the last one saying, “I promise never to use a plastic bag” or such like?

 

I’ve found quite a few caches that may otherwise have been better concealed were it not for a tell-tale tuft of plastic.

 

Personally I’d rather someone had the courage of their convictions and corrected any error I’d made in setting the cache rather than emailing me to ask permission. The problem could’ve been fixed by the finder immediately and now I’ve got to go all environmentally-unfriendly and drive to the cache to fix it. No one objects to the application of a bit of common sense.

Edited April 17, 2006 by jerryo

[+Kryten]

I generally remove any plastic bags that I come across but in one case left a dark brown plastic bag in place but only because the cache would have been far too visible without it. Bags always end up nibbled, damp, slug infested and smelly.

[+The Hokesters]

Makes you wonder who it is who actually places caches with placcy bags?

[Lactodorum]

Makes you wonder who it is who actually places caches with placcy bags?

 

Lots and lots of cachers, particularly (but not always!) new ones.

[+Mr'D]

I usually remove bin liners/plastic bags.

 

However, sometimes (albeit rarely...) a black plastic bag wrapped around a cache container will help to camouflage it from passing muggles.

 

If one feels the need to wrap a cache in this way, then maybe it's not in the best of hidey-holes to start with?

 

Jon

[+The Hokesters]

Makes you wonder who it is who actually places caches with placcy bags?

 

Lots and lots of cachers, particularly (but not always!) new ones.

 

Hmmm I know of one 1,500+ cacher who sets bin liner surrounded caches

[+Simply Paul]

Makes you wonder who it is who actually places caches with placcy bags?

I used to, but I stopped when I saw the error of my ways. Whenever possible I remove them from my older caches when I'm doing maintenance. However, I'd not remove one from someone else's cache unless it was very clearly doing nothing but collect water and ick. Bags can help with camouflage. Both in concealing primary coloured boxes and because an uncovered box in a bag looks like litter. Which is bad, but it does mean it'll be ignored by many people. An exposed box, on the other hand, invites investigation. The best form of camo is naturalistic cover appropriate to the environs, so a cache in a bad at a bag factory would be ideal

[+civilised]

 

Wouldn’t it be better is this policy/guideline was better promoted? Every time you edit a cache listing you tick two boxes; why not make it 3, with the last one saying, “I promise never to use a plastic bag” or such like?

 

 

Don't quote me on this, but I think that part of the problem is that the US guidelines are different to ours - so to get the change you suggest, you'd need to convince them first.

 

In passing, I also dislike opening old plastic bags - on the other hand, I keep seeing references to it being the owner's cache to do with as they please - tricky

 

civilised

[+sTeamTraen]

Makes you wonder who it is who actually places caches with placcy bags?

 

In Germany, almost every cache is in one. I know of caches which are in a waterproof ammo box... in a plastic bin liner. Bonkers. I trash them out every time.

 

On a couple of occasions, I've had logs saying "could the next finder please bring a bag", to which I quickloy post a note asking the next finder to do no such thing.

 

I have to admit that a couple of my early caches are still in bags. They will go when I next get around to maintenance - along with the micros or too-small-small caches in the woods - but visiting new caches placed by other people is always a better use of a couple of hours, than performing minor maintenance on your own.

[+K N D]

I was reading thought some local logs and someone mentioned that they had removed the bag from around the cache as it did not comply with the current guidelines.

 

Although I have grown to dislike bags around caches this annoyed me. It annoyed me because should it not be the decision of cache setter and not any cacher. Should this not be handled by a polite email or a log online.

 

Since then another cacher has done exactly the same thing and I am wondering if it is me who is wrong.

 

Any thoughts on acceptable etiquette here?

 

I came across a cache container where the lid was completely smashed in. All I had with me to help fix the cache was a grocery sack. I placed the cache in the sack and tied it shut. I did this only for maintenance purposes as previous logs had stated that the next finder should try to help if possible. I then contacted the owner with a maintenance needed log. I would think in a situation like this it would be OK? Other then that, I'm not sure on proper etiquette.

[+rutson]

My position on this hasn't changed in the last 3 years

 

Thought this was a new topic at first!

[Chudley Cannons]

Thought this was a new topic at first!

Yes, it came as something of a surprise to see a post from Lactodrum as I started to read down. I didn't realise it was an old thread until that point.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Chudley Cannons

[+Lost in Space]

Even odder - the poster is American!

[+currykev]

One of my caches IS a plastic bag!

Edited December 1, 2009 by currykev

[+Renegade Knight]

Interesting question! Whenever I come across a cache for review that mentions that it's in a plastic bag I will ASK them to remove it and give the reasons why.

 

Actually there's nothing in the guidelines that we review against that forbids plastic bags so all we can do is to suggest that they are not a good idea. We leave it up to the cache owner to either remove them or to ask their first fonder to do so on their behalf. As it happens, when I've been caching and find a bag I tend to leave it unless the owner wants it removed. Mind you I usually make comment when logging it

Agreed.

[+The Hokesters]

This thread is so old it even woke me up!

[Deceangi]

Interesting question! Whenever I come across a cache for review that mentions that it's in a plastic bag I will ASK them to remove it and give the reasons why.

 

Actually there's nothing in the guidelines that we review against that forbids plastic bags so all we can do is to suggest that they are not a good idea. We leave it up to the cache owner to either remove them or to ask their first fonder to do so on their behalf. As it happens, when I've been caching and find a bag I tend to leave it unless the owner wants it removed. Mind you I usually make comment when logging it

Agreed.

 

Actually as here in the UK the majority of Landowner Agreements Ban the use of Plastic Bags wrapping up Containers. The Guidelines does now allow us to refuse to publish a cache where the owner has stated that this applies. And also allows Finders to remove them, even if the Cache Owner set the cache in such a way

 

In addition, there may be local regulations already in place for certain types of parks in your region (state parks, county preserves, etc.). There are many local caching organizations that would be able to help you out with those regulations.

 

It would also open a can of worms for any cache owner who complained that someone had removed the plastic bag wrapping their container. As they would have to prove that the landowner had either given permission or required that the container was wrapped up in one. Also anyone arguing because they had a cache refused for the same reason would be requested to provide the same proof.

 

Deci

[+little-miss-naughty]

i hate finding plastic bags normaly full of slugs and water ewww and i find my self prodding it with a stick just incace its a nice bag of dog $%#@ i always remove them.

 

lmn

[+Fuchsiamagic]

Wouldn’t it be better is this policy/guideline was better promoted? Every time you edit a cache listing you tick two boxes; why not make it 3, with the last one saying, “I promise never to use a plastic bag” or such like?

This would be a very good idea as I think the problem generally stems from ignorance, especially on the part of new cachers. A few of these have popped up near me recently and when I emailed the owners politely pointing out the problems cause by plastic bags, they said they hadn't really thought about it and had no idea it was discouraged.

 

Nobody here has mentioned custom-made camo bags yet. I have used them on occasion and they do keep the cache box nice and clean for the first year or so, until the pull-string breaks, but I have had one or two disparaging remarks in the logs, although most people do seem quite happy with them. I would be interested to know the general feeling out them.

[+purple_pineapple]

Wouldn’t it be better is this policy/guideline was better promoted? Every time you edit a cache listing you tick two boxes; why not make it 3, with the last one saying, “I promise never to use a plastic bag” or such like?

This would be a very good idea as I think the problem generally stems from ignorance, especially on the part of new cachers. A few of these have popped up near me recently and when I emailed the owners politely pointing out the problems cause by plastic bags, they said they hadn't really thought about it and had no idea it was discouraged.

 

Nobody here has mentioned custom-made camo bags yet. I have used them on occasion and they do keep the cache box nice and clean for the first year or so, until the pull-string breaks, but I have had one or two disparaging remarks in the logs, although most people do seem quite happy with them. I would be interested to know the general feeling out them.

 

I'm fairly ambivalent towards camo bags. However, I do feel that their sole purpose is camo, rather than waterproofing. While they do this very well, I personally will always try to camo the container itself, with paint and tape and so on.

 

My own opinion is that the bags wear out relatively quickly, so all you are left with is a soggy piece of cloth, possibly ripped, and maybe full of snails. My own camo'd boxes have lasted 4 years in some cases, without any problems. As you say, while new and/or kept in good nick, they do keep the box clean!

[+uktim]

Interesting question! Whenever I come across a cache for review that mentions that it's in a plastic bag I will ASK them to remove it and give the reasons why.

 

Actually there's nothing in the guidelines that we review against that forbids plastic bags so all we can do is to suggest that they are not a good idea. We leave it up to the cache owner to either remove them or to ask their first fonder to do so on their behalf. As it happens, when I've been caching and find a bag I tend to leave it unless the owner wants it removed. Mind you I usually make comment when logging it

Agreed.

 

Actually as here in the UK the majority of Landowner Agreements Ban the use of Plastic Bags wrapping up Containers. The Guidelines does now allow us to refuse to publish a cache where the owner has stated that this applies. And also allows Finders to remove them, even if the Cache Owner set the cache in such a way

 

In addition, there may be local regulations already in place for certain types of parks in your region (state parks, county preserves, etc.). There are many local caching organizations that would be able to help you out with those regulations.

 

It would also open a can of worms for any cache owner who complained that someone had removed the plastic bag wrapping their container. As they would have to prove that the landowner had either given permission or required that the container was wrapped up in one. Also anyone arguing because they had a cache refused for the same reason would be requested to provide the same proof.

 

Deci

 

 

Does the landowner mention plastic bags or is it something that our side negotiate into the agreement for their own ends?

[Deceangi]

Interesting question! Whenever I come across a cache for review that mentions that it's in a plastic bag I will ASK them to remove it and give the reasons why.

 

Actually there's nothing in the guidelines that we review against that forbids plastic bags so all we can do is to suggest that they are not a good idea. We leave it up to the cache owner to either remove them or to ask their first fonder to do so on their behalf. As it happens, when I've been caching and find a bag I tend to leave it unless the owner wants it removed. Mind you I usually make comment when logging it

Agreed.

 

Actually as here in the UK the majority of Landowner Agreements Ban the use of Plastic Bags wrapping up Containers. The Guidelines does now allow us to refuse to publish a cache where the owner has stated that this applies. And also allows Finders to remove them, even if the Cache Owner set the cache in such a way

 

In addition, there may be local regulations already in place for certain types of parks in your region (state parks, county preserves, etc.). There are many local caching organizations that would be able to help you out with those regulations.

 

It would also open a can of worms for any cache owner who complained that someone had removed the plastic bag wrapping their container. As they would have to prove that the landowner had either given permission or required that the container was wrapped up in one. Also anyone arguing because they had a cache refused for the same reason would be requested to provide the same proof.

 

Deci

 

 

Does the landowner mention plastic bags or is it something that our side negotiate into the agreement for their own ends?

 

One of the very first Major Landowner Agreements negotiated with Hampshire County Council (2002/3 ?) has a ban on Plastic bags. So does the GAGB Guidelines (section 9).

 

Both of these form the backbone of many of many Landowner Agreements in the UK

 

From personal experience, it was a question I was asked in 2004, during a Site Inspection in regards to obtaining Approval off CCW for a cache in a SSSI [the Landowner had given permission, provided CCW gave their approval].

 

It was also something that the a Senior Ranger for Flintshire CC, confirmed to the the Landowner a Community Council in regards to permission in a Nature Reserve for which they were supporting my request. As they manage the site for the Community Council. Flintshire CC outside of the grounds of County Hall have been very supportive of Gecaching, and not just for myself but several other members, that support goes back to 2004. When there were very few caches in the UK, Flintshire being a virtual cache desert.

 

So I'd say yes it is a Issue that at least the Larger Landowners are aware of.

 

Deci