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A Question Regarding "ftf" Caches.

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I'm curious... If a geocacher creates a Geocache, hides it, and then tells friends/family members the coordinates before the geocache is published on geocaching.com, is that really fair to the "spirit"of the FTF challenge?

 

I view it as cheating, and for some reason, it bugs me that people do this. Hide a geocache, tell your friend or relative where it is and then take credit for being the first person to find it? Seems kind of unfair to the rest of the people that put alot of time and effort into ACTUALLY being the FTF. In some circumstances, It's apparent that friends have gone out with someone as they hide the geocache then log it right then and there.

 

Any thoughts? Or am I just being a poor sport?

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Around here, I would view it as cheating... as do the people I cache with. Quite often one will join me during the placement of a new cache... and will wait for others to find it before they return to find it.

 

We even see logs that say "I was here with so-and-so, and waited for a few finders before I logged this"

 

That's called "Playing fair"

 

Claiming a true FTF is in my opinion means knowing absolutely nothing about a cache until it suddenly pops on on the Geocaching listing service.

 

What you're describing is like all the kids waiting for the Pinata to break open, while the siblings of the birthday kid swiped some of the prizes from it earlier that morning...

 

Each to their own I guess... FTF means nothing to me anyway.

 

<_< The Blue Quasar

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I normally group cache and our rules are simple -

 

If you're present with the cacher when he hides it, you gotta wait until FTF occurs to log your find. There's no reason to force a person to go out and do the hike solo, but those people are immediately disqualified from claiming a FTF.

 

The other thing we like to do is send the 'others' about 300M away when the cache is hidden and then let them find it. Still - no FTF allowed. I don't even like people signing the log book before it's posted on GC.com. I make them sign the LAST page and put the note along the lines of "Not FTF".

 

At the end of the day though, the cache is owned by the owner and if that's how they want to run it, then we more or less have to accept it. Just put their caches on your 'ignore' list <_<

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I would never claim a FTF on a cache I was present for during placement. We do however sign the log book on the second page, leaving room for thr true FTF cacher. We then wait until the ftf cacher logs on line before we enter our logs and usually we make it clear that we signed ahead of time and do give credit to the ones that found it after it listed. I can give you an example if you wish.That is pretty much a given amoung the cacher I travel with.

 

Some will say that the first person to sign the log is it but I will argue that it's the first one that found it fairly, without prior knowledge from the cache owner.

 

If you know for a fact it was signed prior to listing with the aid of inside information then I would suggest you add to your log that you are the ftf after the cache being listed :anitongue: .

 

Being "handed" a ftf would diminish my achievements in the first to find race.

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I agree that giving the coords to a friend or family member before the cache is placed is cheating.

 

I personally am not interested in getting a FTF anymore. I have had my share of FTF (50 or 60), I have also given FTF's to other cahers I have met at a new cache.

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Someimes coord are givin to friends and family before bieng posted inorder to test the hide, If they were not present during the hide and found it the same as we would after it is published, is it not the same? Just my two cents.

Edited by Othum

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What's the big hoopla over being FTF on a cache? Do they make you rich, famous or well loved by friends and family alike? Is there some sort of big "prize" at the end of the year for attaining the most FTFs? Not hardly! Over the nearly 3 years I've been geocaching, I've had plenty of FTFs, so many that it just doesn't mean anything anymore. Sure, the first dozen or so seemed rather neat, but after awhile, what's the big deal? If getting FTF on a cache is so important to some folks then maybe they need to get a "real" life!

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What's the big hoopla over being FTF on a cache? Do they make you rich, famous or well loved by friends and family alike? Is there some sort of big "prize" at the end of the year for attaining the most FTFs? Not hardly! Over the nearly 3 years I've been geocaching, I've had plenty of FTFs, so many that it just doesn't mean anything anymore. Sure, the first dozen or so seemed rather neat, but after awhile, what's the big deal? If getting FTF on a cache is so important to some folks then maybe they need to get a "real" life!

 

:D

 

Good for you.. and why do you geocache? The fame? The fortune? Bravo, really.

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What's the big hoopla over being FTF on a cache? Do they make you rich, famous or well loved by friends and family alike? Is there some sort of big "prize" at the end of the year for attaining the most FTFs? Not hardly! Over the nearly 3 years I've been geocaching, I've had plenty of FTFs, so many that it just doesn't mean anything anymore. Sure, the first dozen or so seemed rather neat, but after awhile, what's the big deal? If getting FTF on a cache is so important to some folks then maybe they need to get a "real" life!

 

WHOA..... :D:D:D Let me get this straight. Looking at your profile, you've been caching for close to 3 years in the States where you reside. You have 800 plus finds. And your first ever post on the Gc forums is on the Canada segment to slam a part of geocaching that many do enjoy? You've done nothing to asnwer the OP's question. Why did you post a reply? I don't get it :D

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I think that the problem is that there is no real definition or rule about what qualifies as FTF. It certainly isn't cheating by telling someone the location of a cache before hand or having someone log the cache that was with you when you hid it.

 

I really don't see what the thrill is about being FTF, however there are many people that seem to enjoy being first and strive to get a FTF on a new cache. If a new cache pops up I will go to it because I think it is really interesting, but in the end it doesn't matter to me if I was FTF or 2ndTF or 10thTF. The important thing is that I enjoyed the cache and had a positive caching experience. So I guess what I have to say is to get out and enjoy finding caches and don't lose sleep if someone tells a friend where a cache is before it is published, since in the grand scheme of things, it just really doesn't matter.

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What's the big hoopla over being FTF on a cache? Do they make you rich, famous or well loved by friends and family alike? Is there some sort of big "prize" at the end of the year for attaining the most FTFs? Not hardly! Over the nearly 3 years I've been geocaching, I've had plenty of FTFs, so many that it just doesn't mean anything anymore. Sure, the first dozen or so seemed rather neat, but after awhile, what's the big deal? If getting FTF on a cache is so important to some folks then maybe they need to get a "real" life!

 

Ouch. Bitter much? Overdosed on nosexatall? Or just enjoying a chance to be hostile? I'd say get out more, but.. Apparently you have. FTF aren't your thing. Yay. Collect your cookie on your way out. But for those who DO enjoy it.... It's a valid query.

 

Anyways... Back to the topic at hand..

 

The reason I asked, is not because I feel anyone has been cheated out of the first to find, but more because when I read a logbook, and see the first to find prize was claimed by a family member, or a friend, or someone who had been given the coords before the location was published, it seems to me to be completely outside the nature of the FTF idea.

 

Like I said. It's not a "I'm mad because there's injustice in the works!", just a curious observation. Seems kind of redundant to me. *shrug*

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I'm with Dora the explorer. Who cares about a first to find? Its only a hobby. If you find yourself obsessing about FTF you should maybe ask yourself if you should broaden your scope of interests. Sorry to be blunt, but that's the way I see it. I think finding the cache should be secondary to the adventure of getting there.

 

Cheers!

Coupar-Angus

 

main02.gif

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First to Find isn't important to me either. If a cache pops up in my area, and it happens that I'm not at work and have the time to find it, I'll go. If not, I don't. We've set out caches and then sent other local cachers out blind to test the cache page wording and coordinates (egs are Yggdrasil and Harrington Grist Mill) before formal approval, but they don't log as FTF either since they're operating as our testers and the cache hasn't been made official yet. We look at this as a courtesy service so that the eventual FTFer (and others) don't run into problems with the hunt that we didn't catch during our trial run. They'll sign a random logbook page, then wait to log until after a couple of other cachers have found it. Same as joint ownership of a cache. Hamgran and I co-own caches, and when she creates the page I don't log a FTF on it (actually, we never log a find on these as we treat them the same as if we were the sole owner of the cache), and vice versa.

 

It's always possible that the friend didn't have the coordinates ahead of time. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and relax. Why stress out over something that you have no control over and ultimately doesn't matter?

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I'm curious... If a geocacher creates a Geocache, hides it, and then tells friends/family members the coordinates before the geocache is published on geocaching.com, is that really fair to the "spirit"of the FTF challenge?

 

I view it as cheating, and for some reason, it bugs me that people do this. Hide a geocache, tell your friend or relative where it is and then take credit for being the first person to find it? Seems kind of unfair to the rest of the people that put alot of time and effort into ACTUALLY being the FTF. In some circumstances, It's apparent that friends have gone out with someone as they hide the geocache then log it right then and there.

 

Any thoughts? Or am I just being a poor sport?

 

Well, apparently this sort of thing happens everywhere! Although I'm not a rabid FTF enthusiast (really, I'm not), I've been the legitimate FTF'er twice where this stunt was pulled, and these two incidents occured 300 miles apart (oops, Canada forum, thats 500 Km :P ), in two different U.S. States.

 

I could go into the specifics, but not really relevant. I will say the 1st incident was local to me, and was over two years ago. But if it happened in the current dog-eat-dog FTF environment in my area (which didn't exist back then), the cache page would turn into an all-out flame fest :D

 

To answer the question I guess, of course this is wrong, cheating, dishonest etc..... And no, you're not being a poor sport.

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As I started I got lot's of FTF in Quebec but then again the geocahing populace was very low, but at the time it never occured to me that people might be out to get this, I just got them because I was there first, no rush no hurry. Nowadays I would never be able to get a FTF they are competitors who live just for that, there is even a player here who has stickers made just for the occasion, now that's confidence. :P

 

I would not care if anybody would get a FTF by being given the exact location, but I would consider that cheating yourself the fun of the hunt, cause isn't this why we play this game? It's certainly not for the dollar store content!

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Each person who places a cache can set the rules for logging etc. If they choose to let friends know the coordinates of the cache before it is published, then that is the way they wish to play. Not too much you can do about that.

 

However, unlike some previous posters, I wouldn't let anyone who went with me, to place the cache, log a find. IMHO that would be cheating.

 

Perhaps if a person did this a lot, then there may be disinterest of anyone else making a special effort to find the cache.

Edited by Maxima

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I wouldn't say that its 'cheating', and further they *are* First to Find, whether they claim it or not.

 

First to find, is in my book...well... the first person to find the cache. That being said, I don't think the person who pre-found the cache has any right to any particular 'honour' for prefinding the cache either. If they try bragging about how many first to finds they have... well you've got a nice easy way to shut them down.

 

On the occaisions when I've been privy to coordinates before they are generally published, I never sign the first page of the log book, but I can easily see how someone who didn't care about being FTF and just happend to have the coordinates early wouldn't have a problem signing the first page of the log book.

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WHOA..... :):huh::unsure: Let me get this straight. Looking at your profile, you've been caching for close to 3 years in the States where you reside. You have 800 plus finds. And your first ever post on the Gc forums is on the Canada segment to slam a part of geocaching that many do enjoy? You've done nothing to asnwer the OP's question. Why did you post a reply? I don't get it :)

 

Because it's a valid response, if too strongly stated. The original poster called people cheaters. That's quite a slam, too. I personally think that several of the responses to the thread could be toned down a bit. If the person hiding the cache wants friends or family members to find it first to test it or for whatever other reason, that's their choice. You don't have to agree, you can call yourself the 'real' first finder if you wish, whatever.

 

But if your enjoyment of the cache truly is destroyed because someone signed the log before you, perhaps you do need a real life. But what do I know? I obviously need one, too...

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The point was two-pronged...

 

1)... FTF - Is it valid if you have knowledge of the location before publishing?

2)... FTF Prize - Should you be able to take it if you have knowledge of the location before publishing?

 

My thoughts.

 

On both... Like every other contest-like item... the standard disclaimer type of approach seems to cover it, like Coke or Tim Horton's or McDonald's etc... to summerize it "Any persons that could be viewed as having inside access are not eligible to participate in the FTF award or title process"

 

And like someone said... if this continues with the same cacher's hides... people won't rush for the FTF since they know they won't get it.

 

I don't put FTF prizes in my caches... that's not why people should want to visit my cache. They should want to visit them because they enjoy my cache placements, regardless of first or twentyith or seventy-fifth. But I don't place caches for ONE person that gets there first.

 

In my opinion the best FIRST TO FIND prize... is finding the cache exactly the way the Owner placed it, and without any advanced notice.

 

:laughing: The Blue Quasar

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In the interest of increasing our numbers (snicker) I think for my next stash I will indicate that the first to find must also be the Geocacher's FIRST FIND. :D

 

To add to the challenge they must find it alone, or with others whom have never found (or stashed) any caches. :D I will however grant FTF for all in the party.

 

Any names that appear in the log from cachers with ANY finds prior to the above will be immediately disqualified and a return trip after the valid FTF(s) and re-signing will be required.

 

I will however make one exception. If a cacher with previous find(s) would like to attempt, they must be themself, or accompanied by, a reporter who will publish an article on the merits of Geocaching. This article must be published first before the FTF is granted. If however during the time it takes to publish an article a no find cacher(s) finds the cache, a joint FTF will be honoured.

 

Signed,

Coupar-Awkward, I mean Angus :D

 

PS: Can I get away with this? :D

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What if you are a premium member and get the emails before everyone else? Does your FTF mean

less than the person that is not a premium member or are you cheating?

 

Pinky :D

Edited by M.S. thebrain and Pinky

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What if you are a premium member and get the emails before everyone else? Does your FTF mean

more than the person that is not a premium member or are you cheating?

 

Pinky :D

 

Sure it would, if you were the ONLY premium member on the entire website.

 

Premium members compose what? 50% of the users on geocaching.com? I think that makes it a fair playing field.

 

Specifically, my original point was (and now I almost wish I hadn't made it at all) is that if my son was a cacher, and I put together a geocache and put a ftf price in it, set it up and then gave him the coords on monday, went with him and watched him find and log the cache (or he logged it at the same time I hid it) - then listed the cache on tuesday after I knew that he had logged it and claimed the FTF prize, that'd be... pointless. It wouldn't be a fair FTF hunt - especially if it happened several times.

 

Personally, I could give a toot about FTF. I live too far away from civilization to be a FTF hunter. But, for other people that love the aspect of FTF (like some are about micros, some multis, some puzzles, etc) I just think it's in poor taste to cache this way. Especially if you look at the profile and it says that said person has "X" number of FTF's. That's like saying you're a fisherman when all you do is go to fish farms and catch trout in a barrel.

 

*shrug*

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PS: Can I get away with this? :D

 

Hmmm. I don't know if you can or not. It sounds like you're pushing an agenda, and the folks in charge tend to frown on such things even when they're for good causes. That makes sense, since otherwise they'd have to spend all their time deciding which causes were 'good enough' to list and defending those decisions. I prefer site improvements personally...

 

You better run the idea past your local reviewer first, before going to all of the trouble to set it up. Maybe a special gift (not an FTF) only available to first-time finders would be a good idea instead.

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Specifically, my original point was (and now I almost wish I hadn't made it at all) is that if my son was a cacher, and I put together a geocache and put a ftf price in it, set it up and then gave him the coords on monday, went with him and watched him find and log the cache (or he logged it at the same time I hid it) - then listed the cache on tuesday after I knew that he had logged it and claimed the FTF prize, that'd be... pointless. It wouldn't be a fair FTF hunt - especially if it happened several times.

 

I'd say if that happend, you're just playing a different game than everyone else, but then inviting everyone else to play later.

 

For my little brother's birthday, I bought him an Ammo Can, and stuffed his present inside. He had a blast going out and searching for it. Now we didn't then publish the cache later, as it was on out property, and I didn't bother with a log book, but we just as easily could have. Now, was it fair for him to claim his birthday present as a 'prize'? Of course it was. The prize was meant for him. Its not cheating, its just a different game.

 

That being said, it would be very hard to defend claiming any particular 'honour' for being FTF on the cache, but little kids are sometimes inclined to do silly things, or often don't express themselves very well, and may seem to claim 'honour' when they don't mean to.

 

Anyways just my two cents.

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WHOA..... <_<:lol::P Let me get this straight. Looking at your profile, you've been caching for close to 3 years in the States where you reside. You have 800 plus finds. And your first ever post on the Gc forums is on the Canada segment to slam a part of geocaching that many do enjoy? You've done nothing to asnwer the OP's question. Why did you post a reply? I don't get it :lol:

 

Because it's a valid response,

 

No it's not. She did nothing to answered the OP's question. Instead she slammed the the activity of FTFing

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Label me "Exhibit A." Last month, my brother set out his first cache (GCTW58). He asked Cache-Tech to hold off posting the listing until the weekend I was going to be in town, so that I'd have a chance at FTF. All weekend long, I kept waiting for the listing to be posted. Being on a fixed schedule, though, we eventually set off after the cache before publication.

 

As it was his first hide, my brother had arranged all this so that I could "check out" the cache and give feedback on his hide, the rankings assigned, etc. When we got to the cache, we found that it had been muggled during the week that it was out in the wild before publication. So, in that regard, my advance notice allowed us to salvage and re-hide the cache before FTF hunters in the Golden Horseshoe descended upon it. (Interesting aside: How many cache-trashing muggles do you know that leave their name, mailing address and e-mail address in the logbook? This guy did!)

 

I signed the logbook, and when the listing was published, made an online log. I consider this to be a legitimate find, as I still had to find the actual cache, just like all subsequent cachers will. I did not, and do not, claim it to be a FTF, though. Despite not claiming such either on paper or online, I was not-so-subtlely accused of cheating by the next two finders. They obviously take this FTF thing more seriously than I, and I have since posted a note log explaining the situation and giving credit for the FTF to the first finder after publication (which, paradoxically, makes him the third person or group to actually open the ammo box...).

 

So, yes, I think it's cheating to claim FTF status when you have foreknowledge, but it's nothing to blow out of proportion. Just like fudging your golf score -- you're only making lies out of your own stats.

 

WMH.

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There was a cache in oakville that were listed and on the cache page it said that a new cacher could only claim the FTF (someone with less than 10 finds) and anyone that found it before that had to wait to log it or there log would be deleted.

 

I have to agree with what others have said, if a cache a new cache is close to home and I am not working I will try for a FTF. But it is not important to me to get a FTF.

 

Some others like getting ftf's, if that is what they like to do then nothing wrong with that.

 

Also being a first finder of a cache you are sometimes subject to mistakes on the cache page like a typo on the coordinates.

 

a new cache in Oakville was listed and the coords were pointing to a spot located the grounds of the Ford plant off royal windsor dr. When the cache page was corrected the cache turned out tobe in front of a daycare center off lakeshore a few km's away.

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No it's not. She did nothing to answered the OP's question. Instead she slammed the the activity of FTFing

 

Um. here's the questions...

 

Any thoughts? Or am I just being a poor sport?

 

So Team GeoMacs got what they asked for; someone's thoughts. At least Dear Dora didn't call them a poor sport, well not in so many words. And it reminds me to try and be more specific when I post about something that irritates the heck out of me...

 

(Have we totally derailed this discussion yet?)

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Um. here's the questions...

 

Any thoughts? Or am I just being a poor sport?

 

Did you miss this one?

 

If a geocacher creates a Geocache, hides it, and then tells friends/family members the coordinates before the geocache is published on geocaching.com, is that really fair to the "spirit"of the FTF challenge?

 

More like the first sentence ending with a ? is the question

 

(Have we totally derailed this discussion yet?)

 

we're getting there

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I'm surprised I didn't get more comments about my "for the betterment of Geocaching" cache idea. <sigh>

 

I think I will incorporate something a little milder, yet along the same lines, into my next stash.

 

C-A

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On Easter we weekend, we hid a couple of caches. We knew that they wouldn't be published before the weekend was out so we gave the co-ordinates to our little brother early. He took a bunch of cousins who had never been caching before and they found the caches. There was no first to find prize so we think that this was fine. The kids had a blast, did something active for a change and are all now hooked on geocaching. We don't see the down side here. I can see if a family member takes an FTF prize how its not fair or if they were present when it was hidden. Otherwise its still a find, first or not. I'd share my co-ords early with everyone if possible but instead we gotta wait on approval. What can you do? HAVE FUN! That's what it comes down to. LOL

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On Easter we weekend, we hid a couple of caches. We knew that they wouldn't be published before the weekend was out so we gave the co-ordinates to our little brother early. He took a bunch of cousins who had never been caching before and they found the caches. There was no first to find prize so we think that this was fine. The kids had a blast, did something active for a change and are all now hooked on geocaching. We don't see the down side here. I can see if a family member takes an FTF prize how its not fair or if they were present when it was hidden. Otherwise its still a find, first or not. I'd share my co-ords early with everyone if possible but instead we gotta wait on approval. What can you do? HAVE FUN! That's what it comes down to. LOL

 

Hmm. The OP didn't get the overwhelming support I figured he would for his original question. I guess the bottom line is that many people are annoyed by FTF hounds, and the competition that goes on for them in many places :wub:. As far as this last case, I don't think it's too big of a deal in rural Saskatchewan, and the finders made it very clear how they got the coords, and were very diplomatic about it. And boy, does it take a long time to get a cache approved there! But I'm glad to see Cache Tech has some help.

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Well, I'm fully supporting the concept of Beta Testers for a geocache. Especially a multi-cache.

I've been slapped in logs a few times when I've posted a multi-cache with a typo and had people wandering around on private property, looking under portable toilets and in one case I had an individual answering to the police why they were poking around a ballet school at 3AM. :o

 

Needless to say, the locals around here groan when they see a new puzzle cache from me. :blink:

 

So.... I now employ "Beta Testers" for my puzzle/multi caches and I don't see any reason to deny them a find for the help they provide. I do generally ask that they sign the last page of the log book and clearly identify that they were beta testing the cache and do not qualify for FTF, and not to log online until FTF does actually occur. This is particularly handy on caches with projections or lots of math, as it goes way beyond just taking a couple waypoints and averaging them.

 

Having said that, I've also been read the riot act for beta testing another person's geocache - even when I had BETA TESTED - NOT FTF in all caps across the log entry. I guess some people would rather be first to find themselves looking in the completely wrong place.....

 

FTF can be fun to pursue, but in the end - this is a game after all - and properly done caches should be fun for 2nd to Find, 3rd to Find and 4561 to Find...

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I dunno if the question was answered properly or to their satistfaction but I was under the impression that it was.

 

Basically the gist I got from the thread can be summerized as...

 

FTF is for those without advanced knowledge of the location. Not for Beta Testers or others that didn't get the information from Groundspeak's listing service.

 

Beta Testing is a good idea, whether it is to double check things after placement or if someone was there at the time of placement to confirm (and therefore doesn't need to return).

 

FTF is not Beta Testing, and Beta Testing is not FTF. And both can be rewarding, required or whatever.

 

I've had people Beta Test my caches on occation, and they have chosen to return to log their find when they are nearby. If they told me they were going to sign the book when I placed it, that wouldn't bother me either. But if I placed a FTF prize, or anyone wanted to be known as the FTF on the cache, I would be sure that it would be someone that didn't know anything about it before Cache-Tech listed it that got the credit and/or prize.

 

Even though it is just a game, some people are very serious about these factors. The only way I could put it is that if Geo Dog and I were out and placed my new cache with him double checking the coordinates, then after it got listed he tried to claim FTF, I would say "I don't think so, my friend".

 

:blink: The Blue Quasar

 

edit: I've seen logs like Northern Penguin has posted above... where he said, as have others, something to the effect of "I'm not FTF.. I was here at placement"... and that to me is a CLASSY thing to do! It allows credit to be given where it is due, and that is being upfront about the truth.

Edited by The Blue Quasar

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For me the only important FTF was my first one. I don't count my firsts anymore, they are not why I'm caching. I once signed the log of a cache that was being placed (at the insistance of the placer) and I have regretted it ever since. It wasn't fair for those that really care about this sort of things.

 

I have learned to let the caches of brand new cachers (and sometimes experienced cachers) alone and wait until others find it and post the coords. It's too frustrating for me to search for something that turns out is 15km away.

 

Kudos to those that beta test the caches for others and Bravos to those that acknowledge the fact in the logbooks. I've been with placers and have waited a few months and have gone back to the cache so I can 'legally' log it. That's my game and I'll stick to it. Sometimes it's more fun going back to a cache for the second, third, fourth, fifth... or even sixth time (okay maybe 6 times is a bit much.) :lol:

 

I've had FTF prizes in a couple of my caches (like my birthday cache) but I have also visited caches and have been the second or third cacher and the FTF prize is still there. I don't look for one and I probably will leave a prize for the next finder. Why not a prize for the 4th finder? Trouble is, after a month or so there's just junk in the cache anyway - even if you spend $30+ in swag (but that's a whole other soapbox to rant on about).

 

To recap - is it fair to log FTF if you found it before it was published? Not in my books ... unless the cache was placed specifically for you I suppose ... but do I care personally? Nope. That's not why I'm caching.

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I find it interesting in how people acquire the information. It seams then better technology a cacher has, and or the level of membership they have can make a difference on their FTF capability. As well, their employment can make a difference. Say you have a basic member with a PC at home. They will not know about a new cache until they get home and check the website for new caches. Take that to the other end with a person with a premium membership, a Blackberry and they freedom to leave work for a few hours with out notice. No matter where they are, they can be notified of a new approval, and get all the details about it with in munutes. These people will rack up the most FTF’s.

 

I have noticed a trend toward an FTF group that seem to get most of the FTF’s. How about people being able to log FTF after the FTF Group, or FTF for basic member?

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I'm curious... If a geocacher creates a Geocache, hides it, and then tells friends/family members the coordinates before the geocache is published on geocaching.com, is that really fair to the "spirit"of the FTF challenge?

 

I view it as cheating, and for some reason, it bugs me that people do this. Hide a geocache, tell your friend or relative where it is and then take credit for being the first person to find it? Seems kind of unfair to the rest of the people that put alot of time and effort into ACTUALLY being the FTF. In some circumstances, It's apparent that friends have gone out with someone as they hide the geocache then log it right then and there.

 

Any thoughts? Or am I just being a poor sport?

 

I routinely use another local cacher to "pre-test" my cache hides to be sure there are no problems. This cacher however is then not eligable to claim the FTF. They can sign the log when they first visit, but must leave the FTF slot for the "real first finder".

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Keith Watson Posted Yesterday, 05:29 AM

I find it interesting in how people acquire the information. It seams then better technology a cacher has, and or the level of membership they have can make a difference on their FTF capability. As well, their employment can make a difference. Say you have a basic member with a PC at home. They will not know about a new cache until they get home and check the website for new caches. Take that to the other end with a person with a premium membership, a Blackberry and they freedom to leave work for a few hours with out notice. No matter where they are, they can be notified of a new approval, and get all the details about it with in munutes. These people will rack up the most FTF’s

 

Totally! Even though there is nothing above that is arguable, it is totally correct. I don't see a problem with anyone that is willing to invest to that level of Geo-commitment.

 

It seems that the main problem the OP had with their experience is that the FTF was given the info BEFORE the cache went live on the Web Site.

 

You can't fault someone for getting all the toys to play better. The difference is that EVERYONE has that option to be "Insta-Notified" and all the other items, but to get a 'Private Pre-Listing' is an unfair advantage that no one could overcome without being in the loop.

 

:unsure: The Blue Quasar

 

edit: unclosed TAG

Edited by The Blue Quasar

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I personally love going after the FTF for several reasons.

 

1) In order to get the FTF in my area, you have to do a little bit of night caching. If you've never done night caching, I highly recommend. It adds a whole new level of difficulty and fun.

 

2) You get the opportunity to meet fellow cachers more often. Since the insta-notifications have been coming out, I have met more cachers than before. In most of the cases (all but 1) the people I have met were very friendly and the encounter was very enjoyable.

 

Anyways, to keep the thread on topic: We had a new cache come out that was dedicated to another member of the community. They hunted the cache before everyone because it was only fitting to do the cache first that was dedicated to them. I was the FTF on the cache and the log read "NOT-FTF." and they waited to log it on the website until after I logged my FTF. There's somebody that understands the world doesn't revolve around them. BRAVO to those that aren't so ego-centric.

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<_< I am a retired person, and a Premium Member. When a cache pops up, I generally go right out and look for it. I am not the only person in town who does this, and i quite often meet a fellow cacher at the site. It is the fun of the chase that matters. One day someone posted ten caches, and I happened to be FTF at 9n of them, the consequence? Every FTF for the next week or so said that they had beatedn mr to it. All in harmless fun. But I would never give inside information for someone tp be FTF on the 30 odd caches I have placed. :tired:

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Another pair of 'retirees' here that openly admit they like to chase the FTFs.

 

Another angle to consider is the population of geocachers within the area you practise your 'craft'.

FTF's are reasonably available is our area, because there are not many others into the sport.

We've only done 101 caches over the past 16 months - but that is almost every land accessible cache within a 40 mile radius! It's an all day event for us to go out for one FTF - but we enjoy the challenge, and usually meet other cachers coming from the other side of the cache, as well.

 

Now the ice is off the lakes, we'll be using our boat to go after more caches, and maybe our 16th FTF ?

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What if you are a premium member and get the emails before everyone else? Does your FTF mean

less than the person that is not a premium member or are you cheating?

 

Pinky :ph34r:

 

When I place a cache, I make it premium members only until it's been found once.

 

And when I place a cache, I have always placed very nice first to find prizes.

 

Consequently, I place them alone and I don't tell anyone where it's hidden.

 

However, if someone puzzled it out, I would be very annoyed that someone took the FTF prize unfairly. For me, I put the prize there for someone who sought the cache out, not who saw me place it or found a note where I had the coordinates and went to pillage the cache to get a cool prize. In essence, it's not who writes in the log first that I have an issue with, it's who gets to claim the prize.

 

That said, as far as I know, none of the 7 caches I've placed have been ganked by a disreputable FTF.

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